Re: Can the experts here help me out on a filter issue? PLEASE...

[Guest guest]

I am aware of several people that have had these type of HEPA units

installed in their main system. As far as name brands, I have not

done the research to make any suggestions on which ones may be the

most efficient for our needs. One unit was installed for one of my

family members, and in my opinion, no matter how good the unit is,

some don't perform as well as they should because of poor

installation. Also, depending on the main HVAC system, how well it's

been maintained/checked for leakage. Even after some of these units

have been installed the homeowner still invested in a portable unit

and they could notice the difference.

We have a local lawsuit here because the installation was not done

properly and had caused mold growth throughout the house. So you

really have to check them out throughly. I'm sure Carl and , or

anyone else will have some futher comments.

KC

>

> Mr. Grimes, KC, and many others,

> My parents are currently looking at several inline type whole

house

> filters. Giving my bio toxin poisioning from exposure this is one

of

> the main reasons for this purchase. I believe the brand they are

> looking at is Honeywell and they have several different styles. I

> have gone back over all the post about this subject and one type I

> have not read any comments about is what I understand to be a

> electrostatic type filter. I do not want to argue with them or

> anyone about the information I have learned about the ozone type

> filters so forth and so on. So for this reason I am asking the

group

> to help me with presenting the opinions from who I concider the

> experts on this group and any other information that can be given

on

> this subject as this is a very expensive purchase.

> One filter in question in " Aprilaire " whole home electronic air

> cleaner Model 5000 the others I believe are straight HEPA

> filters " Honywell " models F500 -F300 - F200 - F100 - FC40R.

>

> This is somewhat of a heated debate here and I con only admit I do

> not knnow the facts to give an honest opinion. My moms mother and

> her sister were both asthmatics and my grandmas was a rather

serious

> case. My mom considers the electrostatic type filter they had one

of

> the things that helped keep her alive and infact had many asthma

> attacks when she was not at home in this enviroment and indeed

this

> may be fact and this is a great type of filter.

>

> Again I am not knowledgeable enough to really have an opinion

either

> way on this subject so I am asking for anyones help with this

> information. I would be very greatful for your help.

> Chris...

> P.S. No spell check in this section so please forgive my errors.

>

[Guest guest]

allermed 2000 is a furnace filter which is expensive at 2400 dollars and is

about the size of a refrigerator. it has many filters for chemicals, pollens,

dusts, molds, etc. there are considerations such as possible sensitivity to the

charcoal media itself and space available near the furnace itself.///The trane

corporation also came out with a new whole house filter in January 2006.///I

personally just have hepa and small charcoal filters on the furnace and use room

size filters throughout the house. Like you, I refrain from any comments on the

ozone issue. best of luck.

unitedstatesvet <unitedstatesvet@...> wrote: Mr. Grimes, KC,

and many others,

My parents are currently looking at several inline type whole house

filters. Giving my bio toxin poisioning from exposure this is one of

the main reasons for this purchase. I believe the brand they are

looking at is Honeywell and they have several different styles. I

have gone back over all the post about this subject and one type I

have not read any comments about is what I understand to be a

electrostatic type filter. I do not want to argue with them or

anyone about the information I have learned about the ozone type

filters so forth and so on. So for this reason I am asking the group

to help me with presenting the opinions from who I concider the

experts on this group and any other information that can be given on

this subject as this is a very expensive purchase.

One filter in question in " Aprilaire " whole home electronic air

cleaner Model 5000 the others I believe are straight HEPA

filters " Honywell " models F500 -F300 - F200 - F100 - FC40R.

This is somewhat of a heated debate here and I con only admit I do

not knnow the facts to give an honest opinion. My moms mother and

her sister were both asthmatics and my grandmas was a rather serious

case. My mom considers the electrostatic type filter they had one of

the things that helped keep her alive and infact had many asthma

attacks when she was not at home in this enviroment and indeed this

may be fact and this is a great type of filter.

Again I am not knowledgeable enough to really have an opinion either

way on this subject so I am asking for anyones help with this

information. I would be very greatful for your help.

Chris...

P.S. No spell check in this section so please forgive my errors.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Using filters is like dealing with a sinking ship by installing a

pump to bail it out instead of fixing the leak.

Doesn't solve the problem.

Just slows it down.

The " filterists " like to promote filtration as a cure, when the

reality is that the most you can expect is a reduction in exposure

which may or may not be enough - depending on a multitude of factors.

I believe we had a study not too long ago that claimed success by

installing whole building filters because sixty percent of the

people said they felt better. Not too successful if you were one of

the people who didn't though.

Prof. Harriet Ammann warned me that electrostatic filters catch the

particulates, oxidize the spores and just let the released VOC's

roll on through so you get to breathe them anyway.

Not only that, but electrostatic filters release a small amount of

ozone.

The money I put into filters was all money wasted.

As Chin Yang of P & K put it, " If the mold is Stachy, removal is the

ONLY option " .

From my point of view, filters barely even begin to mask the

problem.

I'm not a fan of filtration.

- (ptp)

[Guest guest]

I'm going to take you a different direction. First we need to clarify

some terms and technologies.

Electrostatic filters remove particles with an electrical field

rather than " straining " them from the air. When the grid is clean it

is most effective. As it gets dirty (from the particles it removes),

its effectiveness decreases. So keep it clean, very clean, or it

let's particles through. It removes only particles, no chemicals.

HEPA and others that " strain " the particles from the air work better

as they get dirty - until they are so clogged they reduce the air

flow. They do not remove chemicals either.

" In-line " and " HEPA " are incompatible. I realize the Honeywell Web

site confuses the issue but there is no way a HEPA filter can be used

" in-line " unless the whole system was specifically designed and sold

that way.

The reason is the " holes " in a HEPA that are big enough to allow the

air molecules through, but small enough to stop 99.97% of the 0.3

micron particles, are too small to allow much air through. A BIGGER

motor is needed to get the required amount of air for the system to

function properly. A HEPA will restrict the air to a slight draft and

burn out a regular motor while doing so.

A HEPA can be used in a forced air system BUT it will be in a " by-

pass " configuration. It sits beside the furnace and draws about 1/3

of the air stream out from the return duct and pulls it through its

own motor and HEPA and then blows it back into the regular return

duct to combine with the 2/3 that wasn't filtered. To see how it

works go to page 2 of a product brochure of any product found at, for

example: http://www.pureairsystems.com/product_brochures.cfm

Honeywell calls their replacement media (F500 -F300 - F200 - F100 -

FC40R) a HEPA but elsewhere they refer to others as " true HEPA. " So

be careful about names vs designations. A " true " HEPA will be

designated with the words " 99.97% retention (or removal) at 0.3

microns. "

If it says 98% it is not a HEPA. If it says 99.97% at 0.5 microns,

for example, it is not a HEPA. Don't pay extra for it.

What is the difference between 99.97 and 98%? Only 1.97%, which seems

really insignificant. But consider how many particles that

represents. The difference for 10,000 particles, for example, is only

200 particles (rounded off). Big deal!

But consider that each cubic foot of air will have anywhere from

200,000 to 1,000,000 particles. That " insigificant " difference in

percentage is now 4,000 to 20,000 more particles... For EACH and

every cubic foot of air in the whole room or house.

Is HEPA needed or is it overkill? It depends. In my opinion it

usually is overkill. However, they are now so plentiful and

inexpensive that they are usually the best value anyway.

The Aprilaire is an interesting exception. It has a HEPA

configuration but not the HEPA media. It also has an electrostatic

field that is totally inadequate. BUT, the two together approach

HEPA. Usually good enough.

HOWEVER - For forced air systems, filters are not the most important

factor. The most important is ducts, blowers and air conditioning

coils that are clean. You could have a perfect filter but in a dirty

system you would be blowing perfect air over a dirt pile. Not very

effective! Have them professionally cleaned by a NADCA certified

company. You can find them at http://www.nadca.com/

The interior of the ducts should be smooth without insulation so they

can be cleaned. If insulation is needed it should be on the outside

of the duct.

In summary, the critical issues aren't which manufacturer has the

best filter or even which filtering technique is honestly described.

It is system cleanliness - just like inside your house as so

clearly stated. HVAC Filters should be used to increase the time

between duct cleanings. If you do decide on a filtering system,

clearly understand the manufacturers info and if that technique

accomplishes what you want. Then you can make an informed choice.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Mr. Grimes, KC, and many others,

> My parents are currently looking at several inline type whole house

> filters. Giving my bio toxin poisioning from exposure this is one of

> the main reasons for this purchase. I believe the brand they are

> looking at is Honeywell and they have several different styles. I have

> gone back over all the post about this subject and one type I have not

> read any comments about is what I understand to be a electrostatic

> type filter. I do not want to argue with them or anyone about the

> information I have learned about the ozone type filters so forth and

> so on. So for this reason I am asking the group to help me with

> presenting the opinions from who I concider the experts on this group

> and any other information that can be given on this subject as this is

> a very expensive purchase. One filter in question in " Aprilaire " whole

> home electronic air cleaner Model 5000 the others I believe are

> straight HEPA filters " Honywell " models F500 -F300 - F200 - F100 -

> FC40R.

>

> This is somewhat of a heated debate here and I con only admit I do not

> knnow the facts to give an honest opinion. My moms mother and her

> sister were both asthmatics and my grandmas was a rather serious case.

> My mom considers the electrostatic type filter they had one of the

> things that helped keep her alive and infact had many asthma attacks

> when she was not at home in this enviroment and indeed this may be

> fact and this is a great type of filter.

>

> Again I am not knowledgeable enough to really have an opinion either

> way on this subject so I am asking for anyones help with this

> information. I would be very greatful for your help. Chris... P.S. No

> spell check in this section so please forgive my errors.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>