Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I always thought it odd, that a teenager working in a tattoo shop can inject potentially harmful tattoo ink into a person, leaving a permanent change to the tissue without any license or formalized training. I can't figure out why this profession ties it's own hands behind it's back with scope of practice issues and limits on marketing, while our competitors continually expand their efforts. Alan D.C. From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800Subject: RE: Dry Needling One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Dr. , I agree with you. I agree with Sharron. I personally think dry needling should be in our scope now that I've reviewed the facts. I would not fault the board for the time taken to review. Everyone on that board is volunteer. Up to 2009 we were paid a whopping $29/per day minus taxes for our work. If I remember there was 30-40 cents per mile for gas as well. I forget. I got a bill sponsored in 2009 to allow similar pay for our board members as is given to the PT, Medical and other boards. Still, it's a fraction of our daily earnings. I think it equals 2 patient visits. Not new patients! I want to say something in support of the OBCE (Oregon Board of Chiropractic Examiners) on this issue. When dealing with scope issues, the board must be diligent to a process that inspects and reviews prior to decision making. This ensures several things and coincidentally is why I remain diligent to similar processes with the state professional association. Having a process that may take a seeminly long amounts of time to inspect issues ensures that the change will be correct, that all parties have ample time to rebutt, add, gather and present information. Even when the process is repeated we need to be patient. This is currently going on with respect to some issues in the ETSDP committee. (Experimental tests devices and procedures). I have personally seen Sharron Fuch's investigational detail on numerous presentations before the board covering 10-12 years. I greatly respect her due diligence to the process. My 2 cents is that I will attend as many upcoming ETSDP meetings as I can to vote on this. I am currently a committee member. Only committee members can vote , but any chiropractor can attend these public meetings. If anyone reading this wants to participate, it's really a great committee to be on. You are at the forefront of examining chiropractic techniques for the profession. There are other committees the board needs volunteers for as well. Rules Advisory Committee reviews all the new regulations and laws governing our profession. Also an interesting committee. The great thing about this committee work is that you donate very little time. Items come up 1-2 times a yr ; sometimes less, sometimes more. IF you are unable to attend, you just contact the executive director and attend the next one. If we have 12-15 docs on a committee, there are usually 8-10 that make it. A good number to make desicions and add diversity of opinion. If you're interested in participating contact : Dave Mc Teague at Dave.Mcteague@..., Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 It can be done without instruments. My neighbor lady used to needle her husband night and day without any instruments at all but a sharp tongue. He spent a lot of time in the garage. Very organized tool bench. E. Abrahamson, D.C. Chiropractic physician Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic 315 Second Street Lake Oswego, OR 97034 503-635-6246 Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com From: Sunny Kierstyn <skrndc1@...> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:04:24 -0800 Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...>, < > Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 www.drsunnykierstyn.com <http://www.drsunnykierstyn.com/> From: sharronf@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 The great thing about airing one's thoughts is that it gives one a chance to reflect back and think through the problem. The solution to some of the problems facing health care may be to keep clearly defined borders of scope of practice for each profession. For example, the solution to the teenage tattoo artist is too have formal training and licensure for each tattoo artist, like a hair dresser/barber must have. Acupuncturist receive a lot of training in their craft, so let them be the experts in their field. Same with Physical Therapists. They spend a lot of time in school learning their trade. The winner of a collaborative effort of cooperation and comradeship between all the health care professions would be the patients. For example, if there is a trigger point, not responding to care, refer them to an acupuncturist. Vice versa. An Acupuncturist who has a whiplash that is not responding to care, co refer to a Chiropractor. Alan D.C. From: alansmithdc@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 17:24:37 -0700Subject: RE: Dry Needling I always thought it odd, that a teenager working in a tattoo shop can inject potentially harmful tattoo ink into a person, leaving a permanent change to the tissue without any license or formalized training. I can't figure out why this profession ties it's own hands behind it's back with scope of practice issues and limits on marketing, while our competitors continually expand their efforts. Alan D.C. From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800Subject: RE: Dry Needling One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C Eugene, Oregon, 97401 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM Sharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sorry you can't bill for that!SharronSent from my iPhoneOn Jan 3, 2011, at 6:46 PM, " Abrahamson" <drscott@...> wrote:It can be done without instruments.My neighbor lady used to needle her husband night and day without any instruments at all but a sharp tongue.He spent a lot of time in the garage.Very organized tool bench. E. Abrahamson, D.C.Chiropractic physicianLake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic315 Second StreetLake Oswego, OR 97034503-635-6246Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.comFrom: Sunny Kierstyn <skrndc1@...>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:04:24 -0800Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...>, < >Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com <http://www.drsunnykierstyn.com/> From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law:http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html(2) “Chiropractic†is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges.I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague:dave.mcteague@...Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care.s. fuchs dcFrom: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las VegasSharron,Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition.Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues.s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Absolutely understand with NO meaning to judge any use of any instrument ... just lamenting that the technology continues to pull us away from that focus. We lose the ability (interest?) in learning to 'hear the body' cause we're not 'reading' it. Sunny ;'-)) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800Subject: RE: Dry Needling One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PMSubject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 For those of you concerned that the use of dry needling will somehow drive us away from using our hands or create some fictitious rift in our profession, let me help to put your concerns to rest. What we are talking about is but another way to treat myofascial points. Yes, you can treat them by hand but needling them will allow you to go deeper in a more localized way while allowing us the ability to work multiple points at the same time AND affecting the nervous system instantaneously. It is very much a hands on technique; you have to have the palpatory skill to find these subtle points, if you just treat the big, obvious points, you'll be causing some pain, some relief but this relief is not sustainable. It takes skill and mastery to listen to the body so that you may find these structural points that can have various structural, biomechanical and physiological influences. Dry needling is just another way to treat these points and another way to help balance tension in the neuromyofascial system, help reduce pain and increase function..... Isn't that what many of us already do? To the idea that if a myofascial point is not releasing, we should refer to an acupuncturist or a PT, that's kind of silly; this isn't a whole new system, it's another way to affect these points that really isn't hard to learn and may help some patients more than some if our other techniques. Mind you, when we start doing this, it will be performed by doctors who diagnose neuromusculoskeletal conditions every day, not providers who cannot diagnose or do not diagnose NMS conditions regularly. Lastly, Oregon is behind the curve regarding DN; many other states allow DCs to use this technique. Oregon may be pivotal in developing language in the addition of DN to our scope that separates it from acupunture because the treatment is performed based on a different paradigm and set of diagnostic criteria. -Tim Irving DC, MS, LMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Did we lament the advent of x-ray, MRI, blood lab, drop table, Graston, thermograph, EMS, ultrasound, laser....?Sent from I-phoneTed Forcum, DC, DACBSPOn Jan 3, 2011, at 7:58 PM, "Sunny Kierstyn" <skrndc1@...> wrote: Absolutely understand with NO meaning to judge any use of any instrument ... just lamenting that the technology continues to pull us away from that focus. We lose the ability (interest?) in learning to 'hear the body' cause we're not 'reading' it. Sunny ;'-))Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800Subject: RE: Dry Needling One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PMSubject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. SunnySunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law:http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html(2) “Chiropractic†is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges.I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague:dave.mcteague@...Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care.s. fuchs dcFrom: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las VegasSharron,Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition.Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues.s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Those are diagnositc, not therapeutic.....and I'm off of it! ;'-)) Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com Subject: Re: Dry NeedlingFrom: TForcum@...Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 09:22:56 -0800skrndc1@...CC: sharronf@...; Did we lament the advent of x-ray, MRI, blood lab, drop table, Graston, thermograph, EMS, ultrasound, laser....?Sent from I-phone Ted Forcum, DC, DACBSP On Jan 3, 2011, at 7:58 PM, "Sunny Kierstyn" <skrndc1@...> wrote: Absolutely understand with NO meaning to judge any use of any instrument ... just lamenting that the technology continues to pull us away from that focus. We lose the ability (interest?) in learning to 'hear the body' cause we're not 'reading' it. Sunny ;'-)) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800Subject: RE: Dry Needling One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PMSubject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic” is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Graston and Laser are therapeutic and dry needling can also be diagnostic....the point is these are all tools and we can have a friendly relationship with tools ie an SOT block. s. fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > Absolutely understand with NO meaning to judge any use of any instrument ... just lamenting that the technology continues to pull us away from that focus. We lose the ability (interest?) in learning to 'hear the body' cause we're not 'reading' it. > > Sunny ;'-)) > > > > Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC > Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon > 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C > Eugene, Oregon, 97401 > 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 > www.drsunnykierstyn.com > > > > > > > From: sharronf@... > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800 > Subject: RE: Dry Needling > > > > > > > One more thing…… > > > Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. > > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > From: Sharron Fuchs > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PM > > Subject: RE: Dry Needling > > It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the `tool' of microcurrent. Whine away …… > > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM > Sharron Fuchs; > Subject: RE: Dry Needling > > Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! > > > Okay, I'm done whining for the day. > > > Sunny > > Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC > Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon > 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C > Eugene, Oregon, 97401 > 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 > www.drsunnykierstyn.com > > > > > > > > > From: sharronf@... > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 > Subject: Dry Needling > > > > > > > > > One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a `rule' it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final `I' and cross the final `T' but the law is the law: > http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html > (2) " Chiropractic " is defined as: > ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. > I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. > Email address of Dave McTeague: > dave.mcteague@... > Thanks. > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. > This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. > s. fuchs dc > > > > > From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM > Sharron Fuchs; > Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas > > Sharron, > > Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. > > Minga Guerrero DC > > FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas > > > > > > > > > > > Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. > > > s. fuchs dc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hey it is the Atlas specific and the adjustment specific anything else is mixing! I'M JUST JOSHIN'! Kahn DC Eugene on this 10th Day of Christmas 10 lords are leaping in my living room. Absolutely understand with NO meaning to judge any use of any instrument ... just lamenting that the technology continues to pull us away from that focus. We lose the ability (interest?) in learning to 'hear the body' cause we're not 'reading' it. Sunny ;'-)) Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800Subject: RE: Dry Needling One more thing…… Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. s. fuchs dc From: Sharron Fuchs Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PMSubject: RE: Dry Needling It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the ‘tool’ of microcurrent. Whine away …… s. fuchs dc From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: RE: Dry Needling Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! Okay, I'm done whining for the day. Sunny Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: sharronf@...Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800Subject: Dry Needling One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a ‘rule’ it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final ‘I’ and cross the final ‘T’ but the law is the law: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html (2) “Chiropractic†is defined as: ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. Email address of Dave McTeague: dave.mcteague@... Thanks. s. fuchs dc No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. s. fuchs dc From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PMSharron Fuchs; Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Sharron, Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. Minga Guerrero DC FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. s. fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 -----OriginalMessage-----From: sharron <sharronf@...>AboWoman@...Sent: Tue, Jan 4, 2011 1:15 pmSubject: Re: Dry Needling Thank you for this note. Remember however, this is with the Board now and not in the ETSDP process. Nor should it be in ETSDP as this is a proven treatment modality. On a side note: It is interesting that acupuncture is now redefining itself in light of new knowledge on fascia. s. fuchs dc > > > Dr. ,> I agree with you. I agree with Sharron. I personally think dry needling should be in our scope now that I've reviewed the facts. I would not fault the board for the time taken to review. Everyone on that board is volunteer. Up to 2009 we were paid a whopping $29/per day minus taxes for our work. If I remember there was 30-40 cents per mile for gas as well. I forget. I got a bill sponsored in 2009 to allow similar pay for our board members as is given to the PT, Medical and other boards. Still, it's a fraction of our daily earnings. I think it equals 2 patient visits. Not new patients! > > I want to say something in support of the OBCE (Oregon Board of Chiropractic Examiners) on this issue. When dealing with scope issues, the board must be diligent to a process that inspects and reviews prior to decision making. This ensures several things and coincidentally is why I remain diligent to similar processes with the state professional association. Having a process that may take a seeminly long amounts of time to inspect issues ensures that the change will be correct, that all parties have ample time to rebutt, add, gather and present information. Even when the process is repeated we need to be patient. This is currently going on with respect to some issues in the ETSDP committee. (Experimental tests devices and procedures). I have personally seen Sharron Fuch's investigational detail on numerous presentations before the board covering 10-12 years. I greatly respect her due diligence to the process. My 2 cents is that I will attend as many upcoming ETSDP meetings as I can to vote on this. I am currently a committee member. Only committee members can vote , but any chiropractor can attend these public meetings. > > If anyone reading this wants to participate, it's really a great committee to be on. You are at the forefront of examining chiropractic techniques for the profession. There are other committees the board needs volunteers for as well. Rules Advisory Committee reviews all the new regulations and laws governing our profession. Also an interesting committee. > > The great thing about this committee work is that you donate very little time. Items come up 1-2 times a yr ; sometimes less, sometimes more. IF you are unable to attend, you just contact the executive director and attend the next one. If we have 12-15 docs on a committee, there are usually 8-10 that make it. A good number to make desicions and add diversity of opinion. If you're interested in participating contact : Dave Mc Teague at Dave.Mcteague@...,> > Minga Guerrero DC> > > > > > > FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas> > > > > > > > Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues.> > > s. fuchs dc> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I like have a big toolbox full of tools. Of course I have favorites (I love the Sawzall!) Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724 From: sharronf@...Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 20:18:56 +0000Subject: Re: Dry Needling Graston and Laser are therapeutic and dry needling can also be diagnostic....the point is these are all tools and we can have a friendly relationship with tools ie an SOT block. s. fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > Absolutely understand with NO meaning to judge any use of any instrument ... just lamenting that the technology continues to pull us away from that focus. We lose the ability (interest?) in learning to 'hear the body' cause we're not 'reading' it. > > Sunny ;'-)) > > > > Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC > Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon > 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C > Eugene, Oregon, 97401 > 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 > www.drsunnykierstyn.com > > > > > > > From: sharronf@... > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:14:05 -0800 > Subject: RE: Dry Needling > > > > > > > One more thing…… > > > Although I do not earn my living from Chiropractic patient care I am a Chiropractic patient and I want this care from my DC. I believe that I as a DC patient am entitled to state of the art full scope neuro-muscluo-fascial-skeletal care and to deny me this as a patient is failing to protect me. We must evolve for patients and for ourselves. > > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > From: Sharron Fuchs > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:06 PM > > Subject: RE: Dry Needling > > It is a tool that we use with our hands………kind of like using the `tool' of microcurrent. Whine away …… > > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > From: Sunny Kierstyn [mailto:skrndc1@...] > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM > Sharron Fuchs; > Subject: RE: Dry Needling > > Why can't we all just learn to use our hands?! > > > Okay, I'm done whining for the day. > > > Sunny > > Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC > Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon > 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C > Eugene, Oregon, 97401 > 541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834 > www.drsunnykierstyn.com > > > > > > > > > From: sharronf@... > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 15:55:00 -0800 > Subject: Dry Needling > > > > > > > > > One more thing….dry needling is now taught as a core class at National. Per our laws, what is taught in the Chiropractic colleges is part of our scope of practice. This is not a `rule' it is a LAW. Going before the board is a courtesy and a way to dot the final `I' and cross the final `T' but the law is the law: > http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/684.html > (2) "Chiropractic" is defined as: > ( The chiropractic diagnosis, treatment and prevention of body dysfunction; correction, maintenance of the structural and functional integrity of the neuro-musculoskeletal system and the effects thereof or interferences therewith by the utilization of all recognized and accepted chiropractic diagnostic procedures and the employment of all rational therapeutic measures as taught in approved chiropractic colleges. > I ask all interested DCs to write to the board and ask for formal inclusion of dry needling in to our scope of practice. > Email address of Dave McTeague: > dave.mcteague@... > Thanks. > s. fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > No. This is something that I contend is completely and totally within our scope of practice. It has not gone to ETSDP nor should it, as it is not investigational. It is a known proven treatment modality. I have been to the board 4 times in the last year and given clear information about this. The issue will be heard again in January. I will tell you that two other doctors took this to the board before me, one over 7 years ago !, so I am only one in a string of people to get this moving to a conclusion. UWS is clearly on board as is the OCA. More info. will be presented to the board in January and we will get an answer one way or another. > This is myofascial trigger point therapy period. We need some training but we are completely and totally capable of providing this care. > s. fuchs dc > > > > > From: abowoman@... [mailto:abowoman@...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 3:24 PM > Sharron Fuchs; > Subject: Re: FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas > > Sharron, > > Is it sched for an ETSDP meeting? If so, I'm still on that committee. I'll be sure to attend. I am a big proponent of this scope addition. > > Minga Guerrero DC > > FASCIAL MANIPULATON Courses Eugene and Las Vegas > > > > > > > > > > > Treatment of the fascia and understanding at to how fascia is directly related to Chiropractic indeed, for me, has been a missing link. The board is reviewing another fascial treatment, dry needling of myofascial trigger points, as part of the DC scope of practice. I envision UWS to soon be the premier school for the broadest of training for treatment of neuro- musculo-fascial-skeletal issues. > > > s. fuchs dc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Congratulations! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724 From: sharronf@...Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800Subject: Dry needling The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques. Sharron Fuchs Sent from my iPhone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Brava Sharron! Bravi UWS and others! okay I hope to see a lot of you Fascisti at the Fascial Manipulation course in Eugene which will teach you where to needle first according to some experts in the field Kahn DC Eugene From: Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...>Subject: Dry needling"Oregon DCs" < >Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 11:49 AM The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques.Sharron FuchsSent from my iPhone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Nice work all, this will be a great therapy for us to have to help patients. In the same vein, I'd be interested in the opinions of the listees on comparisions and contrasts to how this process relates to the desire of PTs to manipulate. Are we DCs, in our opposition to PTs manipulating the spine, as poorly informed as the LAcs and NDs who were in opposition to us dry needling? Just curious... W. Snell, D.C. Director, Solutions Sports & Spine, Inc at Hawthorne Wellness Center 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Portland, OR 97214 Ph. 503-235-5484 Fax 503-235-3956 www.fixyourownback.comMember, American College of Sports MedicineMember, International Society of Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:14:49 -0800Subject: RE: Dry needling Congratulations! Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724 From: sharronf@...Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800Subject: Dry needling The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques. Sharron Fuchs Sent from my iPhone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 That horse is out of the barn and waayy down the road. . PTs do manipulation and we are not going to be able to change that. s. fuchs dc > > > Nice work all, this will be a great therapy for us to have to help patients. In the same vein, I'd be interested in the opinions of the listees on comparisions and contrasts to how this process relates to the desire of PTs to manipulate. Are we DCs, in our opposition to PTs manipulating the spine, as poorly informed as the LAcs and NDs who were in opposition to us dry needling? Just curious... > > W. Snell, > D.C. > > Director, Solutions > Sports & Spine, Inc > at Hawthorne Wellness Center > > 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. > > Portland, OR 97214 > > Ph. 503-235-5484 > > Fax 503-235-3956 > > www.fixyourownback.com > > Member, > > American College of Sports Medicine > Member, International > Society of > Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists > > > > > From: dcdocbrian@... > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:14:49 -0800 > Subject: RE: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > Seitz, DC > Tuality Physicians > 730-D SE Oak St > Hillsboro, OR 97123 > (503)640-3724 > > > > > From: sharronf@... > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800 > Subject: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques. > > > > Sharron Fuchs > > > > Sent from my iPhone > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 DPTs or PTs? Am I wrong in the assumption that PTs cannot legally perform HVLA in OR? Either way... I'm looking for how our philosophy that we should have the opportunity to do something that resembles acupuncture in the name of helping more patients, squares with argument of the PTs who want to perform a PT version of manipulation in order to help more patients. W. Snell, D.C. Director, Solutions Sports & Spine, Inc at Hawthorne Wellness Center 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. Portland, OR 97214 Ph. 503-235-5484 Fax 503-235-3956 www.fixyourownback.comMember, American College of Sports MedicineMember, International Society of Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists From: sharronf@...Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:35:45 +0000Subject: Re: Dry needling That horse is out of the barn and waayy down the road. . PTs do manipulation and we are not going to be able to change that. s. fuchs dc > > > Nice work all, this will be a great therapy for us to have to help patients. In the same vein, I'd be interested in the opinions of the listees on comparisions and contrasts to how this process relates to the desire of PTs to manipulate. Are we DCs, in our opposition to PTs manipulating the spine, as poorly informed as the LAcs and NDs who were in opposition to us dry needling? Just curious... > > W. Snell, > D.C. > > Director, Solutions > Sports & Spine, Inc > at Hawthorne Wellness Center > > 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. > > Portland, OR 97214 > > Ph. 503-235-5484 > > Fax 503-235-3956 > > www.fixyourownback.com > > Member, > > American College of Sports Medicine > Member, International > Society of > Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists > > > > > From: dcdocbrian@... > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:14:49 -0800 > Subject: RE: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > Seitz, DC > Tuality Physicians > 730-D SE Oak St > Hillsboro, OR 97123 > (503)640-3724 > > > > > From: sharronf@... > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800 > Subject: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques. > > > > Sharron Fuchs > > > > Sent from my iPhone > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I believe you are wrong. PTs can do HVLA and have been doing it for years. The only issue that was going to be looked into was their training and safety but that issue has now passed away. Dry needling is not Acupuncture. Yes, it uses the same tool , meaning a needle, but that is where any similarity ends. s.fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > Nice work all, this will be a great therapy for us to have to help patients. In the same vein, I'd be interested in the opinions of the listees on comparisions and contrasts to how this process relates to the desire of PTs to manipulate. Are we DCs, in our opposition to PTs manipulating the spine, as poorly informed as the LAcs and NDs who were in opposition to us dry needling? Just curious... > > > > > > W. Snell, > > > D.C. > > > > > > Director, Solutions > > > Sports & Spine, Inc > > > at Hawthorne Wellness Center > > > > > > 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. > > > > > > Portland, OR 97214 > > > > > > Ph. 503-235-5484 > > > > > > Fax 503-235-3956 > > > > > > www.fixyourownback.com > > > > > > Member, > > > > > > American College of Sports Medicine > > > Member, International > > > Society of > > > Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: dcdocbrian@ > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:14:49 -0800 > > > Subject: RE: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > > > > > Seitz, DC > > > Tuality Physicians > > > 730-D SE Oak St > > > Hillsboro, OR 97123 > > > (503)640-3724 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sharronf@ > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800 > > > Subject: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharron Fuchs > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks for all your hard work! Any idea when UWS will put on the course?Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554 From: sharronf@...Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:27:28 +0000Subject: Re: Dry needling I believe you are wrong. PTs can do HVLA and have been doing it for years. The only issue that was going to be looked into was their training and safety but that issue has now passed away. Dry needling is not Acupuncture. Yes, it uses the same tool , meaning a needle, but that is where any similarity ends. s.fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > Nice work all, this will be a great therapy for us to have to help patients. In the same vein, I'd be interested in the opinions of the listees on comparisions and contrasts to how this process relates to the desire of PTs to manipulate. Are we DCs, in our opposition to PTs manipulating the spine, as poorly informed as the LAcs and NDs who were in opposition to us dry needling? Just curious... > > > > > > W. Snell, > > > D.C. > > > > > > Director, Solutions > > > Sports & Spine, Inc > > > at Hawthorne Wellness Center > > > > > > 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. > > > > > > Portland, OR 97214 > > > > > > Ph. 503-235-5484 > > > > > > Fax 503-235-3956 > > > > > > www.fixyourownback.com > > > > > > Member, > > > > > > American College of Sports Medicine > > > Member, International > > > Society of > > > Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: dcdocbrian@ > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:14:49 -0800 > > > Subject: RE: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > > > > > Seitz, DC > > > Tuality Physicians > > > 730-D SE Oak St > > > Hillsboro, OR 97123 > > > (503)640-3724 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sharronf@ > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800 > > > Subject: Dry needling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharron Fuchs > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 One more statement, in my eight years of being in Costa Rica, anyone could open a clinic for massage and chiropractic. They put their signs out there to the public without legal regulations. They advertised how qualified they were. Finally did we get the government to recognized that we needed an association and licensing board through the CR University. However, I had been contacted on many occasions by 6-week massage schools that knew I was from the USA, because that was what my sign said out front asking me to come teach their student how to adjust. I refused, even though they said they would pay me well. They found another USA chiropractor down there that did take the position. There is always someone willing to sell us out. MY point is we need to expand and I am happy to see we achieved getting Dry Needling, we need not worry about others in other professions, as they are not interested in ours. Side note, I had people coming to me and after my treatment did not understand what I was doing, because they had what they thought to be chiropractic adjusting from these other unqualified Quitopractos. Some where disappointed that I did not do a one hour massage along with my adjusting. This is how others can effect what we do as doctors when they think they know what they are doing. Adjusting is an Art, manipulation can even be walking on someone back or to the Costa Rican's, just being pushed on. Be the best adjustor you can be and spend the time being the artist, show our profession proudly that we do more then just manipulate, we adjust. Walt Eagle Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just FYI listserve ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: " Dave MCTEAGUE " <dave.mcteague@...> " DC G. Hartje " <billhartje@...> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 8:46:25 AM Subject: Re: Dry Needling The OBCE also determined that this change doesn't take effect Until the Board has gone through an administrative rulemaking process, which involves another public meeting with the OBCE Administrative Rules Advisory Committee, another public hearing before the OBCE and final adoption of the rule. That final adoption is most likely to occur at the at the OBCE May 19 meeting. Both those meetings will be publicly noticed. Apparently this information was not shared on the DCs listserve yesterday. Dave McTeague, Ex. Dir. Oregon Board of Chiropractic Examiners 3218 Pringle Road SE # 150 Salem, Oregon 97302 >>> " G. Hartje, DC " <billhartje@...> 1/20/2011 10:09:47 PM >>> Mr. McTeague, Since the board made the decision today that " dry needling " is within the scope of an Oregon licensed DC with appropriate training, when does this take effect legally? Last November I attended and completed Dr. Fishkin's dry needling seminar/training in land and received a certificate of completion. As you probably are aware, this seminar was sponsored as C.E. by the University of Western States. Does that seminar/training completion allow me to practice " dry needling " in the state of Oregon now? Or, are there additional training requirements I must complete? A prompt reply would be appreciated. Sincerely, Bill Hartje, DC, MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Jack of all trades, perhaps eventually master of none. We all do everything it seems here in Oregon. Provider identity is becoming hazy. One would think that Spinal Manipulation would be the identity of Chiropractors, Needling the identity of Accupuncture, Fascial Manipulation that of Rolfing, Natural Medicine that of ND's, Hemmorrhoids that of some unfortunate MD........ I guess for a state who hates "scope of practice" bills, this is what you get. ph Medlin D.C. From: sharron Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Dry needling That horse is out of the barn and waayy down the road. . PTs do manipulation and we are not going to be able to change that.s. fuchs dc >> > Nice work all, this will be a great therapy for us to have to help patients. In the same vein, I'd be interested in the opinions of the listees on comparisions and contrasts to how this process relates to the desire of PTs to manipulate. Are we DCs, in our opposition to PTs manipulating the spine, as poorly informed as the LAcs and NDs who were in opposition to us dry needling? Just curious...> > W. Snell,> D.C. > > Director, Solutions > Sports & Spine, Inc > at Hawthorne Wellness Center> > 3942 SE Hawthorne Blvd. > > Portland, OR 97214 > > Ph. 503-235-5484 > > Fax 503-235-3956> > www.fixyourownback.com> > Member,> > American College of Sports Medicine> Member, International > Society of > Clinical Rehabilitation Specialists> > > > > From: dcdocbrian@...> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:14:49 -0800> Subject: RE: Dry needling> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! > > Seitz, DC > Tuality Physicians > 730-D SE Oak St > Hillsboro, OR 97123 > (503)640-3724> > > > > From: sharronf@...> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:49:15 -0800> Subject: Dry needling> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The board has determined dry needling to be in our scope of practice ! The training , informed consent and some things I forget will be worked out in the Rules committee. Thank you all for your help and support. The UWS can take great credit for it's effort and vision as can Dr. Fishkin DC from land who along with other visionaries offers this to us. I look forward to full integration of this with other myofascial techniques.> > > > Sharron Fuchs> > > > Sent from my iPhone> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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