Re: sausage making question

[Guest guest]

I would precook and freeze. You'll get a better texture and the meat

will " stick together " better. We didn't do this to ours and are

wishing we had. Next batch we definately will.

-Jenie

>

> So we froze our venison. We will thaw it and then add our pork from

Will. My

> question..since the meat was raw and already frozen and now we will

thaw it

> do we need to precook the sausages and then freeze them because we can't

> refreeze raw meat...right?

>

> --

> Kathy-jo

> Be at peace.

> my ebay auctions: http://stores.ebay.com/Uptown-rags

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy-jo,

I knew a woman who lived into her nineties (and I mean lived!) She

always said that anything that could still be eaten could be frozen.

She would freeze and refreeze everything and never got sick. I think

you might sacrifice some food quality-taste and nutrition, but

contrary to popular belief, I don't think it's a food safety issue.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

What Kathy and others say is true, CLEAN, NON-CONTAMINATED MEAT can be frozen,

thawed and refrozen a thousand times or more. The only thing that happens is

that the " life "

or vitality, enzymes, vitamins, flavor and structural integrity diminish a

little bit every time it's

frozen, just as it does when meat is heated. Even long-term storage does the

same thing.

This is true for vegetables and fruit as well.

The axiom that we should not refreeze meat no doubt developed from the concept

that some

people will refreeze meat that has been exposed to pathogens thus giving the

bugs more

time to reproduce and consequentially become more toxic. When that happens any

form of

continued storage becomes potentially more dangerous. Sometimes people

underestimate

just how long it actually takes an object to freeze once it's put into a home

freezer. With

organisms like botulism, salmonella, listeria, or others, a few hours delay can

mean the

difference between life and death.

Will Winter

[Guest guest]

> The axiom that we should not refreeze meat

> no doubt developed from the concept that some

> people will refreeze meat that has been exposed

> to pathogens thus giving the bugs more

> time to reproduce and consequentially become more

> toxic. When that happens any form of

> continued storage becomes potentially more

> dangerous. Sometimes people underestimate

> just how long it actually takes an object to freeze

> once it's put into a home freezer. With

> organisms like botulism, salmonella, listeria, or

> others, a few hours delay can mean the

> difference between life and death.

>

> Will Winter

>

Even meat you think is super clean eventually will spoil if left

unfrozen. The advice to not re-freeze meat is due

to 1. the high contamination risks of commercial meat and 2. the

USDA assumes we are idiots and will not remember or mark on the

package that it was defrosted at some point for some time and then we

will not count those days in their " Days it can be kept in the

fridge " recommendation.

Just remember that everyday (or hour if fully defrosted; and

becareful of it being warmed up if working it as in making sausage,

always slip it make into the freezer for short periods or at least in

the coolest part of the fridge between handling it, until its ready

to re-feeze) it's not frozen,

bacteria can grow, so write down or remember any unfrozen days when

considering how long it will last once defrosted.

And Will made a good point to take into account the longer time home

freezers (top over the frig take the longest) take to freeze the

middle of the item.

[Guest guest]

Opps! I meant " BACK " into the freezer

~Jan

> if working it as in making sausage,

> always slip it *make* into the freezer for

> short periods or at least in

> the coolest part of the fridge between handling it,

> until its ready to re-feeze

[Guest guest]

Boy, I am not sure what to think on all this!! I have for years taken my frozen

meats, thawed, made my sausage and re-froze raw! I have never had a problem with

any of it but perhaps have lost some nutrition in doing this. I figure though,

getting good quality sausage with game and grass fed/pastured raised meats, no

additives other than salt and herbs and spices, makes up for any possible

nutrition losses.

My basic recipe for breakfast sausage is to grind what ever meats I plan on

using, (make sure there is plenty of fat, preferably pork fat or it will be too

dry when cooked and not the flavor you will want) usually pork, deer and turkey

meats or combinations there of. (like deer and pork combo) Add 3/4 to 1 t salt

per pound of meats and 2 to 3 t of herbs and spices per pound, more or less

according to taste.

My favorite is 1.5 t of sage and 1.5 of onion powder. I will add some red pepper

flakes to if I want a little kick. I like to keep it simple but have made some

more complex flavors. I am a huge sage fan so I get a little strong with that. I

have used maple syrup too if I want a sweeter sausage, couple teaspoons per

pound.

When grinding your own too you get to choose to do a course ground or a soft

ground to have the texture you prefer. I like to use my courses blades for a

course ground the first grind, add all the ingredients and mix well and grind

with a medium blade the second grind.

You can stuff into casings, I have used natural lambs casings in the past but

really prefer to make patties and freeze that way. I freeze these on cookie

sheets and then place in freezer bags so I can grab what I need when I want it.

I read once that it was thought to loose too much nutrition and flavor to freeze

and then re-freeze but they found that it was not that much of a loss and that

it was OK to do. Supermarkets bring in frozen meats all the time and place them

in the refrigerator cases to thaw and be sold, I have seen chicken done like

this many times, and they know many are going to go home and re-freeze the

stuff. So must not be too bad.

Kimi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.Jremedies.com

kimilomcr/

http://www.myspace.com/nannakimi

Birthdays are good for you; the more you have, the longer you live.

" I do not ask that Thou should give me some high or noble task. Give me

little hands to fold in mine. Give me little children to point Thy way, over

the strange, sweet path that leads to You. Give me little voices to teach to

pray. Give me shining eyes Thy face to see. The only crown I ask to wear is

this, that I may teach my children. I do not ask that I may stand among the

wise, the worthy, or the great; I only ask that softly, hand in hand my

children and I may enter at the gate. "

-Anonymous

--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! --

http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

SOMEPLACE (maybe here? I'm catching up tonight), I read very recently that in

refreezing meat, especially ground meat, you lose more moisture when you cook

it.

I've done it making sausage before and not had problems. In the days when my

boys didn't eat so much, I would make half pound size rolls, wrap in plastic

wrap to freeze, then partially thaw and slice before cooking. Nowdays it takes a

full pound!

Maple syrup was mentioned for sausage and I like this too - it helps carmelize

the patties a little. I also like to add a dash of nutmeg.

[Guest guest]

I make turkey sausage out of ground thighs. I like to add applesauce

to it along with the herbs and spices. It seems to keep it moist and

as you said, helps it to carmelized when you cook it.

Also, I know what you mean about the needs of your family changing...I

was telling my husband the other day that now that my youngest is

eating more, I find that I have to increase the quantities that I buy

and how I freeze things. For example, I used to be able to get by

with a pound of hamburger for a meal. Then I went to 1 1/2 pounds and

now we're pretty much up to 2!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

I forgot to give credit where credit is due...I learned the applesauce

trick from my naturopath, Dr. Ratte.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Kimi, I agree with you, I don't see how freezing and re-freezing

meats can lose nutrition. And your right, our meat already starts

off with so much more than the conventional meat anyway. I haven't

seen flavor loss, unless it's been frozen a long time-over a year,

and then it is still more flavorful than the bland commercial grain

fed stuff. Texture is a slight problem, due to the expansion of ice

crystals which break apart the cells if frozen slowly, which is

usually the case with home freezers. Of course if you are grinding

it up, again that is a moot point.

This cell rupture could be the only nutrition loss they are referring

to. If some nutrients bond to the water and are 'lost' through the

defrosted water that came out of the meat. Again, you can prevent

that loss in two ways. One, by using the meat before it is

completely defrosted, when the water is still in the meat, and two by

adding that water back into your dish (assuming you haven't left it

out all day on the counter or something like that). The best bet is

to defrost it slowly and catch it before it " bleeds out " .

Your sausage recipe sounded very good.

~Jan

>

> Boy, I am not sure what to think on all this!! I have for years

taken my frozen meats, thawed, made my sausage and re-froze raw! I

have never had a problem with any of it but perhaps have lost some

nutrition in doing this. I figure though, getting good quality

sausage with game and grass fed/pastured raised meats, no additives

other than salt and herbs and spices, makes up for any possible

nutrition losses.

>

> I read once that it was thought to loose too much nutrition and

flavor to freeze and then re-freeze but they found that it was not

that much of a loss and that it was OK to do. Supermarkets bring in

frozen meats all the time and place them in the refrigerator cases to

thaw and be sold, I have seen chicken done like this many times, and

they know many are going to go home and re-freeze the stuff. So must

not be too bad.

>

> Kimi