Re: Re: Geese, ganders and scope....... (rant)

[Guest guest]

Hi Dr. ,

Excellent advice!

I'm afraid that for the most part it falls on deaf ears, as Voltaire wrote in Candide "tend your own garden".

Herb Freeman D.C.

From: tyna.moore@...Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:35:37 -0800Subject: Re: Geese, ganders and scope....... (rant)

Go Tim! I was a punk rock girl in my teen years (still am I guess) and I realized early on that running around the periphery screaming rants did not work. However, keeping your head low, your grades up and infiltrating the enemy from the inside was the way to go- muck it up from the inside:) Way to infiltrate!!I live in ND and DC land. The professions don't really care for one another. It's all a turf war on all sides. I call MD's to discuss my concurrent treatment of patients, etc- they usually blow me off (they think ND's are a joke for trying to play PCP's). I send a patient over to a PT or Acupuncturist and they, on occasion, change my treatment plan and try to take over care. I know DC's who won't refer a patient over for Prolotherapy, even though the issue is clearly a deep joint issue, but they want to steam and cream the heck out of the joint capsule and surrounding soft tissue bc they can get 15 visits out of the patient's insurance company. Turf wars.I was personally approached last year to come up with the curriculum for the Acupuncturist's lab diagnosis course. I've been too busy or I would have done it, seems benign enough to me. Who cares if they know how to read a CBC? Not I. It's not really pretending to become PCP's, I see it more as a screening tool.And come on, how many DC's really interpret lab work on a daily basis? Not too many. I know this bc I have a steady stream of questions emailed to me by DC's to ask questions on their patient's lab results., so much so that I started charging for it. The ND's are pissed because DC's go to "Functional Lab" seminars and come out thinking that they know how to interpret labs and charge extra for it while the ND's have spent 4 years doing nothing but functional lab interp, heck, we don't know how to NOT do it automatically. We never up charge for it because it's in our veins, just like manual skills are in your veins.Do you see what I'm getting at? This back and forth could go on all day:) (I wasn't dissing DC's lab skills btw, just trying to make a point)Let me end with this- I may be one of the few Chiropractors in Oregon actively utilizing Dry Needling in my practice. I do so under my ND license and I use it probably 2-3 x wk. Works well. I also refer out to Acupuncturists 3-4 x wk. I don't pretend to know, understand or perform Chinese Medicine. If a patient needs some muscles to melt or some edema to dissipate out of an area, I throw some needles in and it works. If a patient needs their Qi balanced and their Chakras unlocked, I send them to Dr Joe in Beaverton who does the most traditional CM I know of. I don't even pretend to be an Acupuncturist.I am, however, a true believer that sometimes a muscle needs a needle stuck in it! Sometimes it just won't let go with manual therapies. Nothing like cold, hard, steel to make a change in a neuromuscular jxn:)I'm with you all in that DN should definitely be in the DC scope. Heck, who knows their anatomy better? No one! We can't play "he said, she said" on this with the Acupuncturists. We need to be like the turtle- slow and steady wins the race. Tenacity always pays off and eventually we will wear them down. We have a bigger team:) Let them celebrate their "win"- we can just keep on after them.-Tyna , ND, DCPortland, OR

[Guest guest]

I don’t think anyone has any “turf†anymore.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: dr_tim_irving_dc

Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:28 AM

Subject: Re: Geese, ganders and scope....... (rant)

Herb, not sure about the idea falling on deaf ears. The DN issue is tending our garden, it's expanding the number of tools with which we can tend our garden. The beauty of our profession is that we can each have slightly different gardens (practices) that we can nourish and grow using a large variety of tools and skills. Despite the idea that some have about DN just being rebranded acupuncture, it's not, it's actually expanded TP therapy and really shouldn't be seen as being anyone's "turf". -Tim Irving DC, MS, LMT

[Guest guest]

what ever happened to the ideals of a free market and competetion being in the sest interest of the consumer. This has been like a Maoist dictatorship.

Kahn DC Peoples Republic of Eugene

From: ph Medlin <spinetree@...> ; dr_tim_irving_dc <tirving@...> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:37 AMSubject: Re: Re: Geese, ganders and scope....... (rant)

I don’t think anyone has any “turf†anymore.

ph Medlin D.C.

From: dr_tim_irving_dc

Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:28 AM

Subject: Re: Geese, ganders and scope....... (rant)

Herb, not sure about the idea falling on deaf ears. The DN issue is tending our garden, it's expanding the number of tools with which we can tend our garden. The beauty of our profession is that we can each have slightly different gardens (practices) that we can nourish and grow using a large variety of tools and skills. Despite the idea that some have about DN just being rebranded acupuncture, it's not, it's actually expanded TP therapy and really shouldn't be seen as being anyone's "turf". -Tim Irving DC, MS, LMT