Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

February 23, 2012

This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: "G" <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Dear Listmates.

Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.

Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.

I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.

Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

February 24, 2012

I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run to someone else outside our profession to "fix" our problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the appearance of our "in fighting" which most legislators shy ed away from until we united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!! Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554rongrice@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: "G" <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Dear Listmates.

Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.

Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.

I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.

Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

February 24, 2012

Could someone walk me through this listening thing; once I get to the site what do I look for?? Was the testimony entered by one of the IME docs? Does anyone want to summarize without bias? Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724bluepearl2001@...; rongrice@...; From: caughlindrc@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:30 +0000Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run to someone else outside our profession to "fix" our problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the appearance of our "in fighting" which most legislators shy ed away from until we united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!! Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554rongrice@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: "G" <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Dear Listmates.

Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.

Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.

I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.

Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

February 24, 2012

. go to http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/. At the bottom of

this page select the Archives for the 2012 Session. When the next

page pops up select the Archives of Committee Meetings for the 2012

Session. On this page select the House, health care archive. On

the next page go to the 02-22-2012 meeting that started at 12:49

pm. It actually started at 1:00 but their clock must be off.

They heard a 30 minute testimony on Take Shape for Life, then after

about 35 minutes into the hearing, the OBCE section started.

Hope this gets you there.

Ron Grice, DC

Albany, OR

On 2/24/2012 9:38 AM, BRIAN SEITZ wrote:

Could someone walk me through this listening thing; once I

get to the site what do I look for?? Was the testimony

entered by one of the IME docs? Does anyone want to

summarize without bias?

Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St

Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724

bluepearl2001@...;

rongrice@...;

From: caughlindrc@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:30 +0000

Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the

House Health Committee Hearing.

I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle

disputed within ourselves not run to someone

else outside our profession to "fix" our

problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of

progress that has happened for us in Salem. This

has the appearance of our "in fighting" which

most legislators shy ed away from until we

united. IMHO it makes us look weak and

childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the

legislature does not sees us as such and try to

disband our board and have us regulated by the

medical board. How fun would that be!!!!

Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC

155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office

541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554

To:

rongrice@...;

From: bluepearl2001@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000

Subject: Re: IME Testimony

during the House Health Committee Hearing.

This

is very disappointing and upsetting to

me. Everyone needs to take stock and

remember how precious our profession

in, regardless of 'what side of the

isle' one might be on. Very, very

disappointed to hear this.

Ann DC

From: "G"

<rongrice@...>

Sent: Thursday, February 23,

2012 3:33:14 PM

Subject: IME

Testimony during the House Health

Committee Hearing.

Dear

Listmates.

Yesterday at the House Health

Committee hearing regarding how

the OBCE deals with complaints,

specifically in regards to IMEs,

three DCs testified in front of

the committee. Their testimony

can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that testimony, direct

quotes from this DC List serve

were entered into the record of

the House Health Committee

hearing. I find this blatant

violation of List serve rules to

be appalling. It is my opinion

that the doctors of record who

were testifying at this

committee, who violated these

rules should be expelled from

having the privilege of

membership on this list.

Many forums on the net are

anonymous. The reason we have

signature requirements on this

list is that we are expected to

respect everyone's opinion here,

realizing that this will ensure

professional dialogue. When

someone violates that tenant,

then the list will die and we

will lose this wonderful tool.

It also speaks volumes to the

integrity of the persons

violating this rule. If they are

so willing to throw their

colleagues under the bus in

front of the Oregon Legislature,

especially when there are

non-professional audience

members in the gallery, and when

one of those in attendance was a

medical physician testifying on

another matter, we look very

unprofessional and it appears to

the audience that we need to

have greater control put on us

by the Oregon Legislature.

I would like to remind all of

us, be careful what we say on

this list, at least as long as

particular people have no

concern about keeping our

comments private.

Sincerely, and with tremendous

respect for the integrity of

this list.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

February 24, 2012

I too am having difficulty finding the right portion .... any guidance? skSunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:38:42 -0800Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Could someone walk me through this listening thing; once I get to the site what do I look for?? Was the testimony entered by one of the IME docs? Does anyone want to summarize without bias? Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724bluepearl2001@...; rongrice@...; From: caughlindrc@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:30 +0000Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run to someone else outside our profession to "fix" our problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the appearance of our "in fighting" which most legislators shy ed away from until we united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!! Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554rongrice@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: "G" <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Dear Listmates.

Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.

Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.

I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.

Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list.

Grice, DC

Albany, OR

February 24, 2012

Well Sunny as Ron indicated there is about 30 mins of testimony prior to the IME & OBCE testimony which you have to suffer through prior to hearing the IME deal….you can attempt to fast forward but it never seems to work very well…Vern From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Sunny KierstynSent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:05 AM Seitz; Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I too am having difficulty finding the right portion .... any guidance? skSunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:38:42 -0800Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Could someone walk me through this listening thing; once I get to the site what do I look for?? Was the testimony entered by one of the IME docs? Does anyone want to summarize without bias? Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724bluepearl2001@...; rongrice@...; From: caughlindrc@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:30 +0000Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run to someone else outside our profession to " fix " our problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the appearance of our " in fighting " which most legislators shy ed away from until we united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!! Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554rongrice@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: " G " <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Dear Listmates.Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list. Grice, DCAlbany, OR

February 24, 2012

Go to the archives click on 2012 session then click on health committee for wes 02-22-12. I double click the fast forward it will go for a bit then go to regular speed you will hear other testimony hust click fast forward a couple times I think it is around 40 minute in to it before you get to it.Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554skrndc1@...; dcdocbrian@...; From: vsaboe@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:37:44 -0800Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Well Sunny as Ron indicated there is about 30 mins of testimony prior to the IME & OBCE testimony which you have to suffer through prior to hearing the IME deal….you can attempt to fast forward but it never seems to work very well…Vern From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Sunny KierstynSent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:05 AM Seitz; Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I too am having difficulty finding the right portion .... any guidance? skSunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:38:42 -0800Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Could someone walk me through this listening thing; once I get to the site what do I look for?? Was the testimony entered by one of the IME docs? Does anyone want to summarize without bias? Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724bluepearl2001@...; rongrice@...; From: caughlindrc@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:30 +0000Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run to someone else outside our profession to "fix" our problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the appearance of our "in fighting" which most legislators shy ed away from until we united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!! Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554rongrice@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: "G" <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Dear Listmates.Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list. Grice, DCAlbany, OR

February 24, 2012

I downloaded the audio file from the legislature's web site and

trimmed it down to just the IME portion for my own listening

pleasure. I'm afraid to post it, however, since I might get sued.

Definitely worth listening to and it's unfortunate that we air dirty

laundry like this in a public forum---especially one that's recorded

and easily downloaded by anyone who wishes to do so.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

On 2/24/2012 12:12 PM, Charlie Caughlin wrote:

Go to the archives click on 2012 session then click on

health committee for wes 02-22-12. I double click the fast

forward it will go for a bit then go to regular speed you

will hear other testimony hust click fast forward a couple

times I think it is around 40 minute in to it before you

get to it.

Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC

155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax

541-575-5554

skrndc1@...;

dcdocbrian@...;

From: vsaboe@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:37:44 -0800

Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the

House Health Committee Hearing.

Well

Sunny as Ron indicated there is about 30

mins of testimony prior to the IME &

OBCE testimony which you have to suffer

through prior to hearing the IME deal….you

can attempt to fast forward but it never

seems to work very well…Vern

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012

10:05 AM

Seitz;

Subject: RE: IME

Testimony during the House Health

Committee Hearing.

I too am having

difficulty finding the right portion

..... any guidance?

sk

Sunny

Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834

www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: dcdocbrian@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:38:42

-0800

Subject: RE: IME

Testimony during the House Health

Committee Hearing.

Could

someone walk me through this

listening thing; once I get

to the site what do I look

for?? Was the testimony

entered by one of the IME

docs? Does anyone want to

summarize without bias?

Seitz, DC Tuality

Physicians 730-D SE Oak St

Hillsboro, OR 97123

(503)640-3724

To:

bluepearl2001@...; rongrice@...;

From: caughlindrc@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012

16:20:30 +0000

Subject: RE: [From

OregonDCs] IME Testimony

during the House Health

Committee Hearing.

I

agree whole

heartedly!!! We

need to settle

disputed within

ourselves not run

to someone else

outside our

profession to

"fix" our

problems. I fear

that this has un

done a lot of

progress that has

happened for us in

Salem. This has

the appearance of

our "in fighting"

which most

legislators shy

ed away from until

we united. IMHO it

makes us look weak

and childish!!!!

Now we have to

watch out that the

legislature does

not sees us as

such and try to

disband our board

and have us

regulated by the

medical board. How

fun would that

be!!!!

Dr.

A Caughlin DC

CAC

155

NW 1st Ave

Day, Or. 97845

office

541-575-1063

fax

541-575-5554

To:

rongrice@...;

From: bluepearl2001@...

Date: Fri, 24

Feb 2012

01:46:26 +0000

Subject: Re:

IME Testimony

during the House

Health Committee

Hearing.

This is very disappointing and upsetting to me.

Everyone needs

to take stock

and remember

how precious

our profession

in, regardless

of 'what side

of the isle'

one might be

on. Very,

very

disappointed

to hear this.

Ann DC

From: "G"

<rongrice@...>

Sent: Thursday,

February 23,

2012 3:33:14

PM

Subject: [From

OregonDCs] IME

Testimony

during the

House Health

Committee

Hearing.

Dear Listmates.

Yesterday at

the House

Health

Committee

hearing

regarding how

the OBCE deals

with

complaints,

specifically

in regards to

IMEs, three

DCs testified

in front of

the committee.

Their

testimony can

be listened to

at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that

testimony,

direct quotes

from this DC

List serve

were entered

into the

record of the

House Health

Committee

hearing. I

find this

blatant

violation of

List serve

rules to be

appalling. It

is my opinion

that the

doctors of

record who

were

testifying at

this

committee, who

violated these

rules should

be expelled

from having

the privilege

of membership

on this list.

Many forums on

the net are

anonymous. The

reason we have

signature

requirements

on this list

is that we are

expected to

respect

everyone's

opinion here,

realizing that

this will

ensure

professional

dialogue. When

someone

violates that

tenant, then

the list will

die and we

will lose this

wonderful

tool. It also

speaks volumes

to the

integrity of

the persons

violating this

rule. If they

are so willing

to throw their

colleagues

under the bus

in front of

the Oregon

Legislature,

especially

when there are

non-professional

audience

members in the

gallery, and

when one of

those in

attendance was

a medical

physician

testifying on

another

matter, we

look very

unprofessional

and it appears

to the

audience that

we need to

have greater

control put on

us by the

Oregon

Legislature.

I would like

to remind all

of us, be

careful what

we say on this

list, at least

as long as

particular

people have no

concern about

keeping our

comments

private.

Sincerely, and

with

tremendous

respect for

the integrity

of this list.

Grice,

DC

Albany, OR

February 24, 2012

The testimony is public domain you can send it to whomever you choose Dr. McGill, Vern Saboe From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lyndon McGillSent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:37 PM Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I downloaded the audio file from the legislature's web site and trimmed it down to just the IME portion for my own listening pleasure. I'm afraid to post it, however, since I might get sued. Definitely worth listening to and it's unfortunate that we air dirty laundry like this in a public forum---especially one that's recorded and easily downloaded by anyone who wishes to do so.Lyndon McGill, D.C.EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council MemberSalem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comwww.EvolversUnited.com/e84On 2/24/2012 12:12 PM, Charlie Caughlin wrote: Go to the archives click on 2012 session then click on health committee for wes 02-22-12. I double click the fast forward it will go for a bit then go to regular speed you will hear other testimony hust click fast forward a couple times I think it is around 40 minute in to it before you get to it.Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554skrndc1@...; dcdocbrian@...; From: vsaboe@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:37:44 -0800Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Well Sunny as Ron indicated there is about 30 mins of testimony prior to the IME & OBCE testimony which you have to suffer through prior to hearing the IME deal….you can attempt to fast forward but it never seems to work very well…Vern From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Sunny KierstynSent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:05 AM Seitz; Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I too am having difficulty finding the right portion .... any guidance? skSunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7CEugene, Oregon, 97401541- 654-0850; Fx; 541- 654-0834www.drsunnykierstyn.com From: dcdocbrian@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:38:42 -0800Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Could someone walk me through this listening thing; once I get to the site what do I look for?? Was the testimony entered by one of the IME docs? Does anyone want to summarize without bias? Seitz, DC Tuality Physicians 730-D SE Oak St Hillsboro, OR 97123 (503)640-3724bluepearl2001@...; rongrice@...; From: caughlindrc@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:20:30 +0000Subject: RE: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run to someone else outside our profession to " fix " our problems. I fear that this has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the appearance of our " in fighting " which most legislators shy ed away from until we united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!! Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063 fax 541-575-5554rongrice@...; From: bluepearl2001@...Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.Ann DCFrom: " G " <rongrice@...> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PMSubject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing. Dear Listmates.Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list. Grice, DCAlbany, OR

February 24, 2012

Will:

If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my

immunity, I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

On 2/24/2012 2:41 PM, Schneider wrote:

I would love to have a copy of audio. I suggest you

send it to entire list so we can all know who and what went on at

legislature. It may serve to censure folks who foolishly aired

our dirty laundry in public.

Schneider DC

PDX

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Lyndon

McGill <twogems@...>

wrote:

I downloaded the audio file from the legislature's

web site and trimmed it down to just the IME portion

for my own listening pleasure. I'm afraid to post

it, however, since I might get sued. Definitely

worth listening to and it's unfortunate that we air

dirty laundry like this in a public

forum---especially one that's recorded and easily

downloaded by anyone who wishes to do so.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

On 2/24/2012 12:12 PM, Charlie Caughlin wrote:

Go to the archives click on

2012 session then click on health committee

for wes 02-22-12. I double click the fast

forward it will go for a bit then go to

regular speed you will hear other testimony

hust click fast forward a couple times I

think it is around 40 minute in to it before

you get to it.

Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC

155 NW 1st Ave Day, Or. 97845 office 541-575-1063

fax 541-575-5554

skrndc1@...; dcdocbrian@...;

From: vsaboe@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:37:44 -0800

Subject: RE: IME

Testimony during the House Health

Committee Hearing.

Well

Sunny as Ron indicated there

is about 30 mins of testimony

prior to the IME & OBCE

testimony which you have to

suffer through prior to

hearing the IME deal….you can

attempt to fast forward but it

never seems to work very

well…Vern

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Sunny

Kierstyn

Sent: Friday,

February 24, 2012 10:05 AM

Seitz;

Subject: RE: [From

OregonDCs] IME Testimony

during the House Health

Committee Hearing.

I too am having

difficulty finding the

right portion .... any

guidance?

sk

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care

Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road,

7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541-

654-0850; Fx; 541-

654-0834

www.drsunnykierstyn.com

From: dcdocbrian@...

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012

09:38:42 -0800

Subject: RE: [From

OregonDCs] IME

Testimony during the

House Health Committee

Hearing.

Could someone

walk me

through this

listening

thing; once I

get to the

site what do I

look for?? Was

the testimony

entered by one

of the IME

docs? Does

anyone want to

summarize

without bias?

Seitz,

DC Tuality

Physicians

730-D SE Oak

St Hillsboro,

OR 97123 (503)640-3724

bluepearl2001@...;

rongrice@...;

From: caughlindrc@...

Date: Fri, 24

Feb 2012

16:20:30 +0000

Subject: RE:

[From

OregonDCs] IME

Testimony

during the

House Health

Committee

Hearing.

I agree

whole

heartedly!!!

We need to

settle

disputed

within

ourselves not

run to someone

else outside

our profession

to "fix" our

problems. I

fear that this

has un done a

lot of

progress that

has happened

for us in

Salem. This

has the

appearance of

our "in

fighting"

which most

legislators shy

ed away from

until we

united. IMHO

it makes us

look weak and

childish!!!!

Now we have to

watch out that

the

legislature

does not sees

us as such and

try to disband

our board and

have us

regulated by

the medical

board. How fun

would that

be!!!!

Dr.

A Caughlin DC

CAC

155 NW 1st

Ave

Day,

Or. 97845

office 541-575-1063

fax 541-575-5554

rongrice@...;

From: bluepearl2001@...

Date: Fri, 24

Feb 2012

01:46:26 +0000

Subject: Re:

[From

OregonDCs] IME

Testimony

during the

House Health

Committee

Hearing.

This

is very

disappointing

and upsetting

to me.

Everyone needs

to take stock

and remember

how precious

our profession

in, regardless

of 'what side

of the isle'

one might be

on. Very,

very

disappointed

to hear this.

Ann DC

From:

"G"

<rongrice@...>

Sent: Thursday,

February 23,

2012 3:33:14

PM

Subject: [From

OregonDCs] IME

Testimony

during the

House Health

Committee

Hearing.

Dear

Listmates.

Yesterday at

the House

Health

Committee

hearing

regarding how

the OBCE deals

with

complaints,

specifically

in regards to

IMEs, three

DCs testified

in front of

the committee.

Their

testimony can

be listened to

at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

During that

testimony,

direct quotes

from this DC

List serve

were entered

into the

record of the

House Health

Committee

hearing. I

find this

blatant

violation of

List serve

rules to be

appalling. It

is my opinion

that the

doctors of

record who

were

testifying at

this

committee, who

violated these

rules should

be expelled

from having

the privilege

of membership

on this list.

Many forums on

the net are

anonymous. The

reason we have

signature

requirements

on this list

is that we are

expected to

respect

everyone's

opinion here,

realizing that

this will

ensure

professional

dialogue. When

someone

violates that

tenant, then

the list will

die and we

will lose this

wonderful

tool. It also

speaks volumes

to the

integrity of

the persons

violating this

rule. If they

are so willing

to throw their

colleagues

under the bus

in front of

the Oregon

Legislature,

especially

when there are

non-professional

audience

members in the

gallery, and

when one of

those in

attendance was

a medical

physician

testifying on

another

matter, we

look very

unprofessional

and it appears

to the

audience that

we need to

have greater

control put on

us by the

Oregon

Legislature.

I would like

to remind all

of us, be

careful what

we say on this

list, at least

as long as

particular

people have no

concern about

keeping our

comments

private.

Sincerely, and

with

tremendous

respect for

the integrity

of this list.

Grice,

DC

Albany, OR

--

Schneider DC

PDX

February 24, 2012

Dr. McGill,

For what it's worth, I don't believe you could possibly be successfully* sued

for disseminating a recording of a public hearing distributed by the

legislature. Maybe for comments you might make about it, but that's it. If all

you've done is trim it down to a reasonable length and not deliberately

distorted context or anything, I would think you're totally fine here.

Respectfully,

Ben

* Anyone can file a lawsuit, after all, so the question is whether they'd win,

not whether they could sue you.

On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

> Will:

>

> If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my immunity,

I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

>

> Lyndon McGill, D.C.

> EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

> Salem, Oregon

> www.SalemSpineClinic.com

> www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

--

Ben

Attorney at Law

1205 NW 25th Avenue

Portland, OR 97210

p. (503) 224-1787

f. (888) 659-7963

e. Ben@...

February 24, 2012

Thanks, Ben. But will you defend me pro bono should your opinion be

tested? :-)

With an esteemed legal opinion from Mr. , here is the link to the

excerpted audio of the hearing. Its' a large file so allow a little

time for it to load.

IME Hearing

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

On 2/24/2012 3:04 PM, Ben wrote:

Dr. McGill, For what it's worth, I don't believe you could possibly be successfully* sued for disseminating a recording of a public hearing distributed by the legislature. Maybe for comments you might make about it, but that's it. If all you've done is trim it down to a reasonable length and not deliberately distorted context or anything, I would think you're totally fine here. Respectfully,

Ben * Anyone can file a lawsuit, after all, so the question is whether they'd win, not whether they could sue you. On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

Will:

If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my immunity, I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

--

Ben

Attorney at Law

1205 NW 25th Avenue

Portland, OR 97210

p. (503) 224-1787

f. (888) 659-7963

e. Ben@...

------------------------------------

All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage at: /

Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC)

February 25, 2012

Thank you, Dr. McGill, for posting this audio clip!I found the testimony to be very interesting. I think the hearing committee did a good job of seeing through the emotion and getting down to the point - understanding the OBCE's complaint process against IME doctors and whether or not statutory changes need to be made in order to protect the doctors being accused in addition to protecting the public being served.The IME doctors testifying did not violate the rules of this list serve. Rule #4 states: The list-serve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the list-serve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Well, they appeared to remove all personal identifiers in their testimony as far as I could tell.Overall, I think the hearing was a good thing and not very damaging to our profession at all. It raised some good questions with the OBCE process of inquiry into disciplinary actions. The 2 main questions that arose by the end of the testimony were 1) Does a doctor being accused always have the opportunity to defend him/herself in person as part of the due process? and 2) Can a doctor have the opportunity to defend themselves before the proposal of disciplinary action is made public, thus avoiding potential damage to the doctor's reputation and livelihood?The hearing definitely brought up the bigger issue of the IME process and the need for reform to benefit both sides of this controversial issue. I'm confident that the OBCE will review these issues and make changes to the process if necessary. Jamey Dyson, DCOn Feb 24, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

Thanks, Ben. But will you defend me pro bono should your opinion be

tested? :-)

With an esteemed legal opinion from Mr. , here is the link to the

excerpted audio of the hearing. Its' a large file so allow a little

time for it to load.

IME Hearing

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

On 2/24/2012 3:04 PM, Ben wrote:

Dr. McGill, For what it's worth, I don't believe you could possibly be successfully* sued for disseminating a recording of a public hearing distributed by the legislature. Maybe for comments you might make about it, but that's it. If all you've done is trim it down to a reasonable length and not deliberately distorted context or anything, I would think you're totally fine here. Respectfully,

Ben * Anyone can file a lawsuit, after all, so the question is whether they'd win, not whether they could sue you. On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

Will:

If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my immunity, I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

--

Ben

Attorney at Law

1205 NW 25th Avenue

Portland, OR 97210

p. (503) 224-1787

f. (888) 659-7963

e. Ben@...

------------------------------------

All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage at: /

Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC)

February 25, 2012

Hi docs:

This is , DC the list moderator.

I have reviewed the audio testimony and backtracked through my archives of the

list-serv:

1- Sadly, I do believe that the testifying list-serv member/doctor violated the

" spirit " or " intent " of our rules by quoting a 'sanitized' list-serv post in his

testimony because he went on verbally identify the doctor who was author of the

quoted post by stating the exact date of the posting and various other specific

characteristics of the DC he was quoting. This, in my opinion, is " not cool. "

;-)

2-However, the testifying doctor did not violate the " letter " of the rules.

Therefore I will not recommend any action against him as a member of our

list-serv.

As an aside...

There was a fair amount of emotion involved in his testimony. But the testifying

doctor used an Oregon State House Health Committee meeting to single out and

personally attack one specific doctor as " clinically incompetent " and a " threat

to the public " . Obviously he was upset, but these accusations in THAT forum were

totally inappropriate for THAT committee/ THAT forum. Again, totally UNCOOL.

But it was not a list-serv rules violation.

***Important note: We are one of the largest and most successful

chiropractor-only list-servs in the world. I believe one of the reasons for our

success (most chiropractor list-servs are failures) is that our rules promote

high-quality behavior by balancing confidentiality against usability among our

nearly 500 members. Also, the fact that we are nearly 100% limited to

Oregon-licensed DCs ( and a select few others who we have given special approval

to) keeps our discussions germane to the stakeholders (Oregon DCs). While I

think our list-serv rules are pretty good currently, I reserve the right to

change them (with your input) and I DO believe that I am going to recommend a

" tightening down " of the rules. Please be on the lookout for upcoming proposed

rule changes. You will be informed of the proposed changes and will be given a

chance to give input/feedback/ and-or vote.

J. , DC.

List Moderator

>

> Dear Listmates.

> Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals

with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front

of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at

http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

> During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into

the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation

of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record

who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be

expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.

>

> Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature

requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion

here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone

violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful

tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this

rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of

the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience

members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical

physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it

appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the

Oregon Legislature.

>

> I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at

least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments

private.

>

> Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list.

>

> Grice, DC

> Albany, OR

>

February 25, 2012

Thanks for this clarification of list rules and intentions. I must agree with your wise solution to this list serve issue. I also agree with your editorial comments concerning the doc who violated the spirit of the list serve rules while airing the dirty laundry of our profession in a very public forum. I was personally appalled that any Oregon chiropractic doctor would choose to use such a public forum to attack a fellow chiropractor. He certainly did little to improve the often maligned image of the IME doctor here in Oregon.

So I commend you for once again helping to resolve an ugly issue. I agree that the rules need to be tightened to preclude this type of incident happening again. I would certainly support such tightening of rules to preserve the integrity and quality of this great list serve community. I look forward to your proposals (with feedback from group) in the near future.

Thanks again for your tireless efforts to maintain this great asset of our profession here in Oregon-this list serve community. Schneider DCPDX On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 11:36 AM, <-owner > wrote:

Hi docs:

This is , DC the list moderator.

I have reviewed the audio testimony and backtracked through my archives of the list-serv:

1- Sadly, I do believe that the testifying list-serv member/doctor violated the " spirit " or " intent " of our rules by quoting a 'sanitized' list-serv post in his testimony because he went on verbally identify the doctor who was author of the quoted post by stating the exact date of the posting and various other specific characteristics of the DC he was quoting. This, in my opinion, is " not cool. " ;-)

2-However, the testifying doctor did not violate the " letter " of the rules. Therefore I will not recommend any action against him as a member of our list-serv.

As an aside...

There was a fair amount of emotion involved in his testimony. But the testifying doctor used an Oregon State House Health Committee meeting to single out and personally attack one specific doctor as " clinically incompetent " and a " threat to the public " . Obviously he was upset, but these accusations in THAT forum were totally inappropriate for THAT committee/ THAT forum. Again, totally UNCOOL.

But it was not a list-serv rules violation.

***Important note: We are one of the largest and most successful chiropractor-only list-servs in the world. I believe one of the reasons for our success (most chiropractor list-servs are failures) is that our rules promote high-quality behavior by balancing confidentiality against usability among our nearly 500 members. Also, the fact that we are nearly 100% limited to Oregon-licensed DCs ( and a select few others who we have given special approval to) keeps our discussions germane to the stakeholders (Oregon DCs). While I think our list-serv rules are pretty good currently, I reserve the right to change them (with your input) and I DO believe that I am going to recommend a " tightening down " of the rules. Please be on the lookout for upcoming proposed rule changes. You will be informed of the proposed changes and will be given a chance to give input/feedback/ and-or vote.

J. , DC.

List Moderator

>

> Dear Listmates.

> Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

> During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC List serve were entered into the record of the House Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that the doctors of record who were testifying at this committee, who violated these rules should be expelled from having the privilege of membership on this list.

>

> Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we have signature requirements on this list is that we are expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when one of those in attendance was a medical physician testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.

>

> I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we say on this list, at least as long as particular people have no concern about keeping our comments private.

>

> Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the integrity of this list.

>

> Grice, DC

> Albany, OR

>

-- Schneider DC PDX

February 25, 2012

I don't like that the legislators seemed to "minimize" the amount of "harm" by an IME doc versus a treating doc...(that's not right). A violation is a violation is a violation...period. We have rules, everyone needs to follow them.

Second, I know of a chiropractor who recently had his license FULLY REVOKED with absolutely no face to face meeting with the board...(so, I'm not sure the testimony of that subject was accurate). This chiropractor needed to be suspended/revoked, but the fact is...the board conducted a PRIVATE investigation (without this doctor's knowledge, and of which I was a part). As a result of that private investigation, the board acted to protect the public by suspending his right to practice. He knew NOTHING of the boards activities until his license was suspended...(he didn't get a chance to respond to the board until AFTER he was charged). I wish the legislators would have had knowledge of this case, as they kept hammering that issue...(i.e. should we be allowed to address the board face to face BEFORE they even notify the public that they're going to level charges). Weird.

Third, if the legislature is prepared to write a STATUTE requiring every chiropractor get a face-to-face meeting with the board PRIOR to the board even announcing they are leveling charges against that chiropractor...(which, seems backwards to me--allowing you to defend yourself before you are even charged) then the statue should apply to EVERY PROFESSIONAL BOARD in Oregon...because, again, we as chiropractors have singled-out ourselves in front of the legislature in an embarrassing way, and rather than us regulating and "managing" ourselves internally, we're potentially going to be regulated/managed externally. Not good (and definitely not smart).

Personally, I find this kind of embarrassing... Clearly, I am not for "abuse" by any regulatory agency by any means...but, I'm also not for unnecessary OVER REGULATION of the entire profession based on the grievances of a "faction" within the profession... (:-)

Having said all that, I would certainly like to see all parties work TOGETHER to resolve this outside the legislature, and come up with a system of fair, and equitable treatment of all licensed chiropractors regardless of practice style/activity.

M. s, D.C.

Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Thanks, Ben. But will you defend me pro bono should your opinion be tested? :-) With an esteemed legal opinion from Mr. , here is the link to the excerpted audio of the hearing. Its' a large file so allow a little time for it to load.IME HearingLyndon McGill, D.C.EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council MemberSalem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comwww.EvolversUnited.com/e84On 2/24/2012 3:04 PM, Ben wrote: Dr. McGill, For what it's worth, I don't believe you could possibly be successfully* sued for disseminating a recording of a public hearing distributed by the legislature. Maybe for comments you might make about it, but that's it. If all you've done is trim it down to a reasonable length and not deliberately distorted context or anything, I would think you're totally fine here. Respectfully,

Ben * Anyone can file a lawsuit, after all, so the question is whether they'd win, not whether they could sue you. On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

Will:

If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my immunity, I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

--

Ben

Attorney at Law

1205 NW 25th Avenue

Portland, OR 97210

p. (503) 224-1787

f. (888) 659-7963

e. Ben@...

------------------------------------

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Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC)

February 25, 2012

Thank you Dr. s for sharing these insights. You make some very good points. I certainly share your hope that these matters be resolved within our profession and not with the intervention of the legislative branch of Gov..

Schneider DCPDXOn Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 2:43 PM, M. s, D.C. <drbobdc83@...> wrote:

I don't like that the legislators seemed to " minimize " the amount of " harm " by an IME doc versus a treating doc...(that's not right). A violation is a violation is a violation...period. We have rules, everyone needs to follow them.

Second, I know of a chiropractor who recently had his license FULLY REVOKED with absolutely no face to face meeting with the board...(so, I'm not sure the testimony of that subject was accurate). This chiropractor needed to be suspended/revoked, but the fact is...the board conducted a PRIVATE investigation (without this doctor's knowledge, and of which I was a part). As a result of that private investigation, the board acted to protect the public by suspending his right to practice. He knew NOTHING of the boards activities until his license was suspended...(he didn't get a chance to respond to the board until AFTER he was charged). I wish the legislators would have had knowledge of this case, as they kept hammering that issue...(i.e. should we be allowed to address the board face to face BEFORE they even notify the public that they're going to level charges). Weird.

Third, if the legislature is prepared to write a STATUTE requiring every chiropractor get a face-to-face meeting with the board PRIOR to the board even announcing they are leveling charges against that chiropractor...(which, seems backwards to me--allowing you to defend yourself before you are even charged) then the statue should apply to EVERY PROFESSIONAL BOARD in Oregon...because, again, we as chiropractors have singled-out ourselves in front of the legislature in an embarrassing way, and rather than us regulating and " managing " ourselves internally, we're potentially going to be regulated/managed externally. Not good (and definitely not smart).

Personally, I find this kind of embarrassing... Clearly, I am not for " abuse " by any regulatory agency by any means...but, I'm also not for unnecessary OVER REGULATION of the entire profession based on the grievances of a " faction " within the profession... (:-)

Having said all that, I would certainly like to see all parties work TOGETHER to resolve this outside the legislature, and come up with a system of fair, and equitable treatment of all licensed chiropractors regardless of practice style/activity.

M. s, D.C.

Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Thanks, Ben. But will you defend me pro bono should your opinion be tested? :-) With an esteemed legal opinion from Mr. , here is the link to the excerpted audio of the hearing. Its' a large file so allow a little time for it to load.IME HearingLyndon McGill, D.C.EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council MemberSalem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comwww.EvolversUnited.com/e84

On 2/24/2012 3:04 PM, Ben wrote: Dr. McGill,

For what it's worth, I don't believe you could possibly be successfully* sued for disseminating a recording of a public hearing distributed by the legislature. Maybe for comments you might make about it, but that's it. If all you've done is trim it down to a reasonable length and not deliberately distorted context or anything, I would think you're totally fine here.

Respectfully,

Ben

* Anyone can file a lawsuit, after all, so the question is whether they'd win, not whether they could sue you.

On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

Will:

If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my immunity, I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

--

Ben

Attorney at Law

1205 NW 25th Avenue

Portland, OR 97210

p. (503) 224-1787

f. (888) 659-7963

e. Ben@...

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Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC)

February 25, 2012

Thank you Dr. Schneider. This whole issue/problem is something I hope the OCA can offer some "mediation" for sometime in the near future...(keep it out of the board's hands and CERTAINLY out of the legislature!!!).

Humorous story... I was once asked to do an IME... But, I told the guy up front that I couldn't guarantee I would give him the type of opinion he was looking for... When he asked what I meant by THAT, I said I would give a truly impartial opinion, and that if I felt the patient really had problems, or needed MORE care, I would say so.

He said he was OFFENDED that I would even SUGGEST that he was looking for any other type of opinion (other than honest). So, I said, fine, I apologize...send me the case. I never heard from him again. (:-)

RR

Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee Hearing.

Thanks, Ben. But will you defend me pro bono should your opinion be tested? :-)

With an esteemed legal opinion from Mr. , here is the link to the excerpted audio of the hearing. Its' a large file so allow a little time for it to load.IME HearingLyndon McGill, D.C.EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council MemberSalem, Oregonwww.SalemSpineClinic.comwww.EvolversUnited.com/e84On 2/24/2012 3:04 PM, Ben wrote: Dr. McGill, For what it's worth, I don't believe you could possibly be successfully* sued for disseminating a recording of a public hearing distributed by the legislature. Maybe for comments you might make about it, but that's it. If all you've done is trim it down to a reasonable length and not deliberately distorted context or anything, I would think you're totally fine here. Respectfully,

Ben * Anyone can file a lawsuit, after all, so the question is whether they'd win, not whether they could sue you. On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Lyndon McGill wrote:

Will:

If I can get Dave McTeague or an attorney on the list to confirm my immunity, I'll be happy to post the link to the excerpted recording.

Lyndon McGill, D.C.

EvolvHealth Wellness Advisory Council Member

Salem, Oregon

www.SalemSpineClinic.com

www.EvolversUnited.com/e84

--

Ben

Attorney at Law

1205 NW 25th Avenue

Portland, OR 97210

p. (503) 224-1787

f. (888) 659-7963

e. Ben@...

------------------------------------

All posts must adhere to OregonDCs rules located on homepage at: /

Tell a colleague about OregonDCs! (must be licensed Oregon DC)

February 25, 2012

Dr. .

Don't the more complete rules advise against referring to the

"Groups" as the source of your reference? I thought I read in

's rules that you were not to use information in the

manner as was done on Wednesday in front of the House Health Care

hearing.

You also brought up an interesting point I hadn't thought of

before. As Dr. Burke so emotionally testified, and mentioned the

doctor in question who made the complaint against Dr. Freedland was

"clinically incompetent, and a threat to the public", wouldn't that

insinuate that Dr. Burke had reviewed the documentation that Dr.

Freedland had used in performing his IME? Wouldn't that be a

violation of HIPAA.

I was sitting in on the meeting. They both testified, at least from

the impression I got, that the doctor and information they were

discussing was from the same case. I think this is a bigger problem

than violating the Group's rules. Again, this is just from what I

recall as their testimony.

You are totally correct that if they didn't violate the word of the

rules, they definitely violated the intent of the rules. We should

all be very careful about what we post here as we can't guarantee

the information won't be repeated.

Ron Grice, DC

Albany, OR

On 2/25/2012 11:36 AM, -owner wrote:

Hi docs:

This is , DC the list moderator.

I have reviewed the audio testimony and backtracked

through my archives of the list-serv:

1- Sadly, I do believe that the testifying list-serv

member/doctor violated the "spirit" or "intent" of our

rules by quoting a 'sanitized' list-serv post in his

testimony because he went on verbally identify the doctor

who was author of the quoted post by stating the exact

date of the posting and various other specific

characteristics of the DC he was quoting. This, in my

opinion, is "not cool." ;-)

2-However, the testifying doctor did not violate the

"letter" of the rules. Therefore I will not recommend any

action against him as a member of our list-serv.

As an aside...

There was a fair amount of emotion involved in his

testimony. But the testifying doctor used an Oregon State

House Health Committee meeting to single out and

personally attack one specific doctor as "clinically

incompetent" and a "threat to the public". Obviously he

was upset, but these accusations in THAT forum were

totally inappropriate for THAT committee/ THAT forum.

Again, totally UNCOOL.

But it was not a list-serv rules violation.

***Important note: We are one of the largest and most

successful chiropractor-only list-servs in the world. I

believe one of the reasons for our success (most

chiropractor list-servs are failures) is that our rules

promote high-quality behavior by balancing confidentiality

against usability among our nearly 500 members. Also, the

fact that we are nearly 100% limited to Oregon-licensed

DCs ( and a select few others who we have given special

approval to) keeps our discussions germane to the

stakeholders (Oregon DCs). While I think our list-serv

rules are pretty good currently, I reserve the right to

change them (with your input) and I DO believe that I am

going to recommend a "tightening down" of the rules.

Please be on the lookout for upcoming proposed rule

changes. You will be informed of the proposed changes and

will be given a chance to give input/feedback/ and-or

vote.

J. , DC.

List Moderator

>

> Dear Listmates.

> Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing

regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints, specifically

in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified in front of the

committee. Their testimony can be listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

> During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC

List serve were entered into the record of the House

Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant violation of

List serve rules to be appalling. It is my opinion that

the doctors of record who were testifying at this

committee, who violated these rules should be expelled

from having the privilege of membership on this list.

>

> Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason we

have signature requirements on this list is that we are

expected to respect everyone's opinion here, realizing

that this will ensure professional dialogue. When someone

violates that tenant, then the list will die and we will

lose this wonderful tool. It also speaks volumes to the

integrity of the persons violating this rule. If they are

so willing to throw their colleagues under the bus in

front of the Oregon Legislature, especially when there are

non-professional audience members in the gallery, and when

one of those in attendance was a medical physician

testifying on another matter, we look very unprofessional

and it appears to the audience that we need to have

greater control put on us by the Oregon Legislature.

>

> I would like to remind all of us, be careful what we

say on this list, at least as long as particular people

have no concern about keeping our comments private.

>

> Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the

integrity of this list.

>

> Grice, DC

> Albany, OR

>

February 25, 2012

I have been informed that Dr. Burke had been the Expert on the case

in question with Dr. Freedland. This would explain why he had

access to this information.

Ron Grice, DC

Albany, OR 97321

On 2/25/2012 4:11 PM, Grice wrote:

Dr. .

Don't the more complete rules advise against

referring to the "Groups" as the source of your

reference? I thought I read in 's rules that you

were not to use information in the manner as was

done on Wednesday in front of the House Health Care

hearing.

You also brought up an interesting point I hadn't thought

of before. As Dr. Burke so emotionally testified, and

mentioned the doctor in question who made the complaint

against Dr. Freedland was "clinically incompetent, and a

threat to the public", wouldn't that insinuate that Dr.

Burke had reviewed the documentation that Dr. Freedland

had used in performing his IME? Wouldn't that be a

violation of HIPAA.

I was sitting in on the meeting. They both testified, at

least from the impression I got, that the doctor and

information they were discussing was from the same case.

I think this is a bigger problem than violating the

Group's rules. Again, this is just from what I recall as

their testimony.

You are totally correct that if they didn't violate the

word of the rules, they definitely violated the intent of

the rules. We should all be very careful about what we

post here as we can't guarantee the information won't be

repeated.

Ron Grice, DC

Albany, OR

On 2/25/2012 11:36 AM, -owner

wrote:

Hi docs:

This is , DC the list moderator.

I have reviewed the audio testimony and backtracked

through my archives of the list-serv:

1- Sadly, I do believe that the testifying list-serv

member/doctor violated the "spirit" or "intent" of our

rules by quoting a 'sanitized' list-serv post in his

testimony because he went on verbally identify the

doctor who was author of the quoted post by stating

the exact date of the posting and various other

specific characteristics of the DC he was quoting.

This, in my opinion, is "not cool." ;-)

2-However, the testifying doctor did not violate the

"letter" of the rules. Therefore I will not recommend

any action against him as a member of our list-serv.

As an aside...

There was a fair amount of emotion involved in his

testimony. But the testifying doctor used an Oregon

State House Health Committee meeting to single out and

personally attack one specific doctor as "clinically

incompetent" and a "threat to the public". Obviously

he was upset, but these accusations in THAT forum were

totally inappropriate for THAT committee/ THAT forum.

Again, totally UNCOOL.

But it was not a list-serv rules violation.

***Important note: We are one of the largest and most

successful chiropractor-only list-servs in the world.

I believe one of the reasons for our success (most

chiropractor list-servs are failures) is that our

rules promote high-quality behavior by balancing

confidentiality against usability among our nearly 500

members. Also, the fact that we are nearly 100%

limited to Oregon-licensed DCs ( and a select few

others who we have given special approval to) keeps

our discussions germane to the stakeholders (Oregon

DCs). While I think our list-serv rules are pretty

good currently, I reserve the right to change them

(with your input) and I DO believe that I am going to

recommend a "tightening down" of the rules. Please be

on the lookout for upcoming proposed rule changes. You

will be informed of the proposed changes and will be

given a chance to give input/feedback/ and-or vote.

J. , DC.

List Moderator

>

> Dear Listmates.

> Yesterday at the House Health Committee hearing

regarding how the OBCE deals with complaints,

specifically in regards to IMEs, three DCs testified

in front of the committee. Their testimony can be

listened to at http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/.

> During that testimony, direct quotes from this DC

List serve were entered into the record of the House

Health Committee hearing. I find this blatant

violation of List serve rules to be appalling. It is

my opinion that the doctors of record who were

testifying at this committee, who violated these rules

should be expelled from having the privilege of

membership on this list.

>

> Many forums on the net are anonymous. The reason

we have signature requirements on this list is that we

are expected to respect everyone's opinion here,

realizing that this will ensure professional dialogue.

When someone violates that tenant, then the list will

die and we will lose this wonderful tool. It also

speaks volumes to the integrity of the persons

violating this rule. If they are so willing to throw

their colleagues under the bus in front of the Oregon

Legislature, especially when there are

non-professional audience members in the gallery, and

when one of those in attendance was a medical

physician testifying on another matter, we look very

unprofessional and it appears to the audience that we

need to have greater control put on us by the Oregon

Legislature.

>

> I would like to remind all of us, be careful what

we say on this list, at least as long as particular

people have no concern about keeping our comments

private.

>

> Sincerely, and with tremendous respect for the

integrity of this list.

>

> Grice, DC

> Albany, OR

>

February 25, 2012

Dear colleagues and listserv members,

I'm writing to respond to some of the recent comments on this listserv regarding

alleged violations of OregonDC listserv rules and airing our professions' " dirty

laundry " in public.

I am one of the chiropractors who gave testimony before the House Healthcare

Committee this past Wednesday. This was an information gathering hearing having

to do with alleged malfeasance on the part of the Oregon Board of Chiropractic

Examiners and alleged denial of due process by the Board to certain doctors

against whom complaints were filed.

The matter that my colleagues and I brought before the House Committee is not

something that could be resolved by, for example, meeting with the OCA executive

board, as someone recently suggested in an off-list communication. The actions

of the OBCE directly affect the public welfare. The Board is charged with

serving the public, regulating the practice of chiropractic, promoting quality,

and ensuring competent, ethical health care. The Board is not accountable to the

OCA. It is not accountable, at least directly, to the chiropractic profession.

It is only accountable to the people of Oregon through the executive branch of

the Oregon government. Given the widely held prejudices against IMEs and the

doctors who perform them, what impartial jurisdictions or venues exist within

our profession where we could have aired our grievances?

Part of my testimony last Wednesday concerned members of the OBCE who had

publicly expressed bias against doctors who perform IMEs. One member had used

this listserv as a forum for announcing her prejudice. My testimony also

concerned the records of a treating chiropractor which were reviewed by the

Board as part of an investigation against another chiropractor. The treating

chiropractor's records contained so many errors and contradictions that his

reasoning and even his clinical competency might be questioned. After reviewing

his records (in my capacity as an expert consultant in the case) I concluded

that his continued practice could pose a danger to the public. The members of

the Board had to have reviewed his records as part of the investigation of the

other chiropractor. Yet they did not inquire further into the potential

misconduct revealed in these records, something that might be considered

obligatory given their mandate to protect the public. Instead, they sanctioned

the doctor under investigation for violations that he clearly did not commit.

Then they denied this doctor due process by not allowing him to rebut the

charges prior to the Board's publication of them.

Is publicly charging a chiropractor before allowing him an opportunity to

respond to the charges a case of airing dirty laundry, or is it malfeasance,

especially when bias against the doctor's specialty was publicly expressed? What

recourse did the accused chiropractor have other than proceeding to a hearing

before an administrative law judge, a public proceeding? How could the concern

about the Board's improper handling of this and other similar cases have been

addressed privately within the profession? To what extent did the chiropractic

profession contribute to this situation by repeatedly denouncing independent

examiners in a public forum?

My concerns affect all chiropractors, not just those who do IMEs and record

reviews. We need a regulatory board that handles all complaints in the same

manner, regardless of each chiropractor's specialty. A complaint is not a

presumption of guilt. The practice of chiropractic is a privilege granted to

each of us by the state in which we practice, but having earned the privilege we

each have the same right to due process. Imagine if you will that the Board was

comprised of some members who had publicly expressed prejudice against

chiropractors who practice Gonstead technique. If you are a Gonstead

practitioner, and someone filed a complaint against you, would you consider it

fair to be judged by the anti-Gonstead members of the Board? Would you think it

was right if all other doctors were given the opportunity to appear in person to

respond to the charges against them, but Gonstead practitioners were not? What

would you and your Gonstead colleagues do under such circumstances? To which

person, professional association, or public agency would you take your

grievance?

In my testimony I quoted posts from the OregonDC listserv. I did not violate any

of the listserv rules. Before testifying I checked the rules to make sure I

would not violate any of them. I have copied them here.

1. Keep correspondence professional.

2. No personal attacks on list-serve members will be tolerated.

3. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

4. The list-serve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it

is against the rules of the list-serve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

5. Use subject line to describe the content of your post/response. Use " OT " in

subject line if the post is " off the topic " of chiropractic.

6. When applying for list membership, YOU MUST include your FULL NAME and OBCE

LICENSE NUMBER. You do not need to have a email address nor do you have to

register with to join this group. However, registering with (by

creating a login name and pass word), will give you MUCH more control of how you

participate in the list-serve and will have full access to the information-rich

archives going back to 1999.

Of these six rules, five of them have to do with the formatting and content of

posts. Only Rule #4 concerns revealing information posted to the listserv. The

rule does not prohibit revealing correspondence if " all personal identifiers

have been removed. " That is exactly what I did. There is no rule against

revealing the source of the quoted posts. Even if there was such a rule, it

would do very little to restrict the dissemination of posted emails. Anyone

wishing to do so could merely state that it was obtained from an Internet forum.

In my testimony, and in the printed copies of the listserv posts that were

distributed to the Committee members, all " personal identifiers " were redacted.

One post mentioned the name of a doctor who is not on the listserv, and I

removed his name as well. (I presume he is not a listserv member because the

post was a personal attack on him, which Rule #2 would have prohibited.)

Rule #4 warns members that the listserv is not secure. Given that your email

could end up anywhere, Rule #1, " Keep correspondence professional, " is very

important. Unfortunately, some people do not follow this rule. The

unprofessional posts provided me with evidence to support my allegations. For

example, in a recent post a doctor claimed that another chiropractor who

reviewed his patient's file " raped " his patient. I pointed out in a personal

email to this doctor that his comment was unprofessional, but he insisted his

comment was appropriate and refused to retract it. (Last Thursday this doctor

complained on the listserv that my testimony made chiropractors " look very

unprofessional. " ) I also mentioned two instances in which doctors posted

correspondence on the listserv inciting their colleagues to submit complaints

against IME chiropractors to the OBCE if their reports disagreed with the

treating doctors' opinions.

If Rule #1 was consistently adhered to, there would be very little concern about

publicizing listserv comments. Unfortunately, a lot of posts are unprofessional.

As a chiropractor who performs IMEs and medical record reviews, I consider it

unprofessional when chiropractors post insulting comments about their colleagues

who perform these services. " Evil IMEs, " IME " hacks, " and " bogus IMEs " are only

a few of the slams I've read in listserv correspondence. It would seem that

listserv members don't consider these kinds of posts unprofessional but tacitly

agree with the authors of such insults. The following is a quote from my

testimony to the Healthcare Committee:

" IMEs are performed by providers in many healthcare disciplines. In most

disciplines there is little controversy regarding IMEs. In the chiropractic

profession, however, independent medical evaluations are a highly contentious

matter. Chiropractors who perform IMEs are vilified by their colleagues. The

term " insurance whore " is often heard in candid discussions. Generally,

chiropractors tend to believe that their work should not be questioned,

especially by other chiropractors, and they tend to think of chiropractors who

do IMEs and record reviews as traitors to the profession. If these doctors are

being paid by insurance companies, the thinking goes, then certainly their

opinions must have been determined by the source payment. "

Whether or not you believe that the opinions of doctors who perform IMEs are for

sale, it is unprofessional to discuss this topic in the manner in which it is

commonly discussed on this listserv. And as the listserv is not secure (Rule

#4), all of you who have submitted such correspondence have been, perhaps

unwittingly, airing dirty laundry in public.

I hope this explanation will lend some clarity and additional understanding of

the events leading up to last Wednesday's hearing as well as the necessity and

validity of the testimony.

J. Burke, DC, DABCO

mjqpdc@...

>

> I agree whole heartedly!!! We need to settle disputed within ourselves not run

to someone else outside our profession to " fix " our problems. I fear that this

has un done a lot of progress that has happened for us in Salem. This has the

appearance of our " in fighting " which most legislators shy ed away from until we

united. IMHO it makes us look weak and childish!!!! Now we have to watch out

that the legislature does not sees us as such and try to disband our board and

have us regulated by the medical board. How fun would that be!!!!

>

> Dr. A Caughlin DC CAC155 NW 1st Ave

> Day, Or. 97845

> office 541-575-1063

> fax 541-575-5554

>

> rongrice@...;

> From: bluepearl2001@...

> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:46:26 +0000

> Subject: Re: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee

Hearing.

>

> This is very disappointing and upsetting to me. Everyone needs to take

stock and remember how precious our profession in, regardless of 'what side of

the isle' one might be on. Very, very disappointed to hear this.

> Ann DC

>

> From: " G " <rongrice@...>

>

> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:33:14 PM

> Subject: IME Testimony during the House Health Committee