Gifted

[Guest guest]

Ho there,

Brenton is also ADHD and has SI. What is MDD? The term profoundly gifted

came from a IQ assessment from a GERRIC here in Australia. It is a

research department of the Universtiy of New South Wales which

specialises in the assessment of gifted children. Mirica Gross is, I

think, department head and wrote the text, Exeptionally and Profoundly

Gifted Children. The research conceptualises giftedness as

overexcitabilites which can occur in the emotional, physical, sensory

and intellective domains. Their thesis points out the potential for

confusion in the diagnosis of giftedness, ADHD and possibly OCD.

I have not found a uniform definition of the upper levels of giftedness

but those who fall above 4 standard deviations above the norm are termed

exeptionally gifted and those above 5 standard deviaions profoundly

gifted in the GERRIC vernacular. How do you find that your child's

giftedness interacts with the OCD? Do you personally feel it is a

contributing factor or is there a strong genetic link in your family to

anxiety disorders? I don't know of any in mine, but then I don't know a

lot of my son's family. Finding out that some of Brenton's

ideosyncracies were attributable to a negative rather than a positive

difference is a new fronteir to me (or perhaps a return to how his

toddler years were characterised). He is going well right now, so maybe

it won't be so bad after all.

Regards

Rosie

gifted

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>

> Rose, you are the only other person I know besides myself who

describes

> her son that way. Actually, I usually say " severely and profoundly

> gifted " . It used to be the biggest abnormality I worried about until

I

> realized he also has OCD, MDD, and ADD!

>

> Judy

>

> Rose wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hi Stacey,

> > Thanks for replying. My son is profoundly gifted which means (after

a

> > rough few early years) that I had become very positive about his

> > future.

> > Then I realised he is not quite normal so it is an adjustment.

>

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rosie ... I too have an extremely gifted child with OCD. I also have a

child with developmental delays with OCD. Their OCD is very different.

's the gifted child seems to have more perseverance with less panic.

will persist in what he feel he has to do or say no matter the

consequences and rather than panic or cry if not allowed he becomes arrogant.

He gets compulsive about things that wouldn't even think about.

I think the OCD definitely interacts with the giftedness although I cannot

put my finger on how. I know a few other kids with OCD and the gifted ones

OCD seems to be a little different. Not necessarily better or worse ... just

different. Like apples and oranges.

As far as genetic ... yep I believe there is a connection. I think giftedness

runs in families as does OCD and there are too many families with both OCD

and giftedness to not be connected. If they are not ... it is the biggest

consequence ever. I think that: ADHD; OCD; TS; AUTISM; GIFTEDNESS; ODD; BP;

and maybe a few others are eventually going to be linked to the same gene.

Just different manifestations of the same gene. Just my humble opinion.

Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

[Guest guest]

MDD = major depressive disorder

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the interesting infor Peggy,

Regards, Rosie

Re: gifted

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> Hi Rosie ... I too have an extremely gifted child with OCD. I also

have a

> child with developmental delays with OCD. Their OCD is very different.

> 's the gifted child seems to have more perseverance with less

panic.

> will persist in what he feel he has to do or say no matter the

> consequences and rather than panic or cry if not allowed he becomes

arrogant.

> He gets compulsive about things that wouldn't even think

about.

>

> I think the OCD definitely interacts with the giftedness although I

cannot

> put my finger on how. I know a few other kids with OCD and the gifted

ones

> OCD seems to be a little different. Not necessarily better or worse

.... just

> different. Like apples and oranges.

>

> As far as genetic ... yep I believe there is a connection. I think

giftedness

> runs in families as does OCD and there are too many families with both

OCD

> and giftedness to not be connected. If they are not ... it is the

biggest

> consequence ever. I think that: ADHD; OCD; TS; AUTISM; GIFTEDNESS;

ODD; BP;

> and maybe a few others are eventually going to be linked to the same

gene.

> Just different manifestations of the same gene. Just my humble

opinion.

>

> Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... .

In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

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parentsofadultswithOCD . You may access

the files, links, and archives for our list at

. Our list advisors are

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi List, I have an abstract in front of me titled " The Neurodevelopmental

Frontostriatal Disorders: Evolutionary Adaptiveness and Anomalous

Lateralization " (Bradshaw JL, Sheppard DM)--don't ask why!--anyway it's

about why the genes associated with various mental disorders may have

persisted in the human genome. According to this paper:

Autism is associated with computational careers

depression with literary creativity

schizophrenia with lateral thinking and the Odyssean personality (I don't

know what this means)

ADHD with an Ice-Age readiness to respond

OCD with a focused range of interests

TS with competitive sports and jazz improvisation

Kel's a bright child but I've never had her tested and so can't state she's

gifted. But around time of onset/diagnosis, the counselor working with us

commented that " this (OCD) always happens to the smart kids. " Kel has

worried that if OCD gets small or goes away, so will her smartness . . .

FWIW,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " Rose " <rm@...>

> I have hear of the link between bipolar and creative genius types.

> Brenton composes music in four part harmony. Is your son into the

> creative aspect or more the performance side? It is difficult to meet

> other kids who share his interests.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Judith C. Lovchik <jlovchik@...>

> > I don't know that my son's giftedness is related to his OCD, but maybe

> > it is. It helps compensate academically to some extent, although the

> > ADHD usually eliminates that advantage. I did read today that artists

> > (including poets, musicians, etc) are ten to twenty times more likely

> to

> > be bipolar than others. My son is " profoundly " gifted musically also,

> > and I think he has a form of bipolar. MDD is Major Depressive

> > Disorder.

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy,

I have hear of the link between bipolar and creative genius types.

Brenton composes music in four part harmony. Is your son into the

creative aspect or more the performance side? It is difficult to meet

other kids who share his interests.

Regards

Rosie

gifted

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>

> I don't know that my son's giftedness is related to his OCD, but maybe

> it is. It helps compensate academically to some extent, although the

> ADHD usually eliminates that advantage. I did read today that artists

> (including poets, musicians, etc) are ten to twenty times more likely

to

> be bipolar than others. My son is " profoundly " gifted musically also,

> and I think he has a form of bipolar. MDD is Major Depressive

> Disorder.

> Judy

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that info Kathy.

It has been a great night-Gabs slept all night, almost 7 hrs. I am so

gtateful when she is able to sleep & feel rested when she wakes up. She

has been full of smiles all morning, & she has not been tapping this

morning. Good sign that her anxiety is in balance .

Smiles all over the place,

Nici

[Guest guest]

My daughter was designated gifted in kindergarten and spent the next several

years in a pull out program for the gifted. All the while she showed signs

of being different:her handwiriting was atrocious, she was always late to

things, and somewhat disorganized. I attributed it to being gifted and took

a kind of pride in that. She hit the wall when she started high school when

she was evetually diagnosed with OCD and ADHD. I have come to learn that the

gifted are a high risk group for the developent of neuropsych disorders. I

am angry at the school system for not picking up on things when she was

younger. The handwriting was a give away. I did not realize it was a sign

of other things and just let it slide because I did not want to make an issue

of it the way my sister's teacher made her write righty when she was a lefty

back in the '60s. Other states recognize the gifted as a disability and

allocate monies for these special kids. In my daughter's case, everyone

thought gifted meant she was so smart and so enormous pressure was put on a

neurologically vulnerable kid. No wonder she developped perfectionism!

Good luck,

Mamimiz

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggye. I think your observations are very astute. I think very gifted

children are unusually sensitive emotionally which put them at risk for OCD,

ADHD, etc. All these things may be connected to these unusual

sensitivities. I have one with it all.We are trying to encourage her gift-

music- because the confidence she gets from it seems to help the rest.

mamimiz

[Guest guest]

My daughter, Ava, was labeled gifted in 2nd grade. She refused the pullout

program because she found it disconcerting to be taken out of class. People

thought I was crazy not to make her do it, like it was some privilege she should

be getting. In 3rd grade she already knew all of the math they were teaching

for the year so they gave her a 4th grade folder of math she could do on her

own. Yeah, right. She just read " Goosebumps " at her desk instead. She did the

pullout program that year but thought it was stupid, just extra work that was

boring.

I went to a meeting about the changes that were in the works for the gifted

programs in the school district. I was appalled at the discussion which

centered around how these kids were " the leaders of tomorrow because they are

our best and brightest " and ways to improve their leadership skills, like have

them tutor the slower kids. I spoke up and said that I had no idea whether my

child would be a " leader of tomorrow " , teaching slower kids was not her forte

and I was hoping that " gifted " would simply insure that she got work that was

challenging at her level of ability. Isn't that what schools are supposed to do

for any kid? And giftedness does not mean leadership.

There are probably some C students with much better people skills that we

shouldn't just write off as followers or underachievers when they might actually

be a " leader of tomorrow " . The whole room seemed to be full of parents who

wanted to take some kind of warped pride in their child's giftedness w/o looking

at who their child really was. It was very elitist.

Now that she's in middle school she is in advanced classes which suit her fine.

Dana in NC

[Guest guest]

HI Mamimiz:

I know it is frustrating to deal with delayed diagnosis and misdiagnosis of

our kids. However, no one knows what causes OCD or even specific symptoms

of OCD. So far the best evidence points to it being a biologically-based

disorder and the emphasis placed on doing things right or even perfectly

that we all experience in school settings is unlikely to " cause " OCD

perfectionism.

It may however be a trigger for this in a child who is already biologically

pre-disposed to develop OCD. However at some stage in life, e.g. at work,

being a parent, etc. where there is also a lot of pressure to be

right/ " perfect " our vulnerable kids will face similar triggers.

Good luck to you and your daughter, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 09:36 AM 09/26/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>My daughter was designated gifted in kindergarten and spent the next

several

>years in a pull out program for the gifted. All the while she showed signs

>of being different:her handwiriting was atrocious, she was always late to

>things, and somewhat disorganized. I attributed it to being gifted and took

>a kind of pride in that. She hit the wall when she started high school when

>she was evetually diagnosed with OCD and ADHD. I have come to learn that

the

>gifted are a high risk group for the developent of neuropsych disorders. I

>am angry at the school system for not picking up on things when she was

>younger. The handwriting was a give away. I did not realize it was a sign

>of other things and just let it slide because I did not want to make an

issue

>of it the way my sister's teacher made her write righty when she was a lefty

>back in the '60s. Other states recognize the gifted as a disability and

>allocate monies for these special kids. In my daughter's case, everyone

>thought gifted meant she was so smart and so enormous pressure was put on a

>neurologically vulnerable kid. No wonder she developped perfectionism!

>

>Good luck,

>Mamimiz

[Guest guest]

One more thing. Now that Ava is in a better school district and middle school I

think her academic needs are for the most part being met. She is in advanced

math and advanced language arts classes. This used to be called " tracking " and

in a way it still is, the difference is that children can elect to take these

classes if they can keep up, which was not true when it was called tracking. In

high school there are lots of AP courses she can take.

Maybe this is easier to do in middle school than in elementary school. I just

wish the emphasis in elementary school was on giving kids appropriate,

challenging work rather than setting them up as " leaders " and expecting them to

be teachers of other children.

Dana in NC

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the posts Dana, they were really interesting. I have found

being the sole parent pensioner (young) mum of a profoundly gifted child

has been a very interesting experience. I don't really fit in with the

elitist type thing and we certainly don't fit the 'recipe for failure'

myth accepted about single mum families either. I haven't noticed the

leadership thing so much in Australia because here we are very

anti-elitism and anything perceived to be elitist in schools (like

extolling the virtues of our gifted kids) is mightily frowned upon. I

suspect that it is easier for elementary schools to 'deal' with gifted

kids if they let them 'teach' the others as it avoids the effort

involved in designing programs appropriate to their needs.

I think you are right to be disappointed by this, it is damaging to the

needs of gifted kids. I decided to homeschool as my son didn't seem to

fit the 'ideal' of the gifted kid as leader thing because he was so

frustrated/unstimulated and unrecognised as who he was. Compared to

formal schooling options for gifted kids, homeschooling is very

preferable as most of the problems with meeting the needs of gifted kids

in classrooms revolve around the fact that they are seen to conflict

with the needs of the rest of the school. I totally agree with your

criticisms of elementary school programs and that the highschool

programs seem much better as described. I agree that allowing all kids

to have a shot is the best idea as one never knows what can be achieved

until they try.

Bye

Rosie

Re: gifted

> One more thing. Now that Ava is in a better school district and

middle school I think her academic needs are for the most part being

met. She is in advanced math and advanced language arts classes. This

used to be called " tracking " and in a way it still is, the difference is

that children can elect to take these classes if they can keep up, which

was not true when it was called tracking. In high school there are lots

of AP courses she can take.

>

> Maybe this is easier to do in middle school than in elementary school.

I just wish the emphasis in elementary school was on giving kids

appropriate, challenging work rather than setting them up as " leaders "

and expecting them to be teachers of other children.

>

> Dana in NC

>

>

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In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

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the files, links, and archives for our list at

. Our list advisors are

Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., and Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D. Our list

moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses,

Roman, and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues, problems, or

suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

harkins@... .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add my opinion to the gifted discussion. My son, Ian, is

in the G & T program at school. I wholeheartedly agree with Kathy H and

Dana that these kids need a specialized, challenging program to keep

their interest. Ian's program is a 45 minute pull-out program that

emphasizes independent study. He loves it, but it has been the source

of many a meltdown in the family. I would much rather see his regular

schoolwork enriched. I have seriously considered pulling him out of

QUEST kuz it creates so much more stress with project deadlines. Ian,

of course, has trouble with deciding on a topic (he wants to study

everything) and then gets too elaborate in his plans (he wants to

include everything). He insists it's the only part of his day when he

feels he can be himself. I just can't bring myself to take that away

from him. I've been working with his G & T teacher on modifying his plans

and extending deadlines. She really encourages me to leave him in the

program.

When I spoke to the school counselor about a 504 and IEP for Ian, she

told me that the Quest program was really all they could offer Ian in

terms of his G & T. The school feels they only have an obligation to make

sure everyone meets the minimum standards. I am very frustrated but am

trying to stay civil with her as I am still working on getting my

daughter, Avery's, 504 and IEP set up. Luckily, my preschooler, Gracie,

had her IEP done by a different dept. in the school district!

Unbelievable!! Perhaps you could ask her what standards of education her

moral obligations hold her to? My son also includes everything and goes

too broad and deep. However, this is not a problem in homeschooling as

it doesn't matter if he gets off the track. He is still learning and as

he is many, many years ahead of his peers it doesn't really matter on

what obscurity he ends up on. Obviously, I am lucky so far that his

anxiety doesn't stop him from learning in any way. His program has been

focused around his needs (and the percieved needs of the system for

when/if he re-enters it) so he doesn't suffer from study related

problems thus far.

Regards

Rosie

[Guest guest]

HI there,

> My daughter was designated gifted in kindergarten and spent the next

several

> years in a pull out program for the gifted. All the while she showed

signs

> of being different:her handwiriting was atrocious, she was always late

to

> things, and somewhat disorganized. I attributed it to being gifted

and took

> a kind of pride in that. She hit the wall when she started high

school when

> she was evetually diagnosed with OCD and ADHD. I have come to learn

that the

> gifted are a high risk group for the developent of neuropsych

disorders. I

> am angry at the school system for not picking up on things when she

was

> younger.

I wouldn't too hard on the school if I were you. When many pscyhologists

have difficulty separating the diagnoses a teacher can hardly be

considered an expert in this area! At least they did not exclude her

from G & T programing due to sloppy handwriting. My son is profoundly

gifted (IQ 180+), AHDH, undiagnosed OCD and has sensory issues as well

as motor problems. However, he is mildly effected by all these due to

homeschooling, good management/medication and luck. He continues to be a

highly functioning child by any standards although I do have to do all

the right things for him. I have him at home so that he can recieve an

individualised educational program and because I don't feel the school

system can take responsibility for such an individual (which is not to

say that they shouldn't). Hope you begin to feel better about the OCD

diagnosis.

The handwriting was a give away. I did not realize it was a sign

> of other things and just let it slide because I did not want to make

an issue

> of it the way my sister's teacher made her write righty when she was a

lefty

> back in the '60s. Other states recognize the gifted as a disability

and

> allocate monies for these special kids. In my daughter's case,

everyone

> thought gifted meant she was so smart and so enormous pressure was put

on a

> neurologically vulnerable kid. No wonder she developped

perfectionism!

My son also had pressure put on him to improve his handwriting

(inappropriately in my opinion) so that he could accelerate. I was a

party to that pressure as he really did need the acceleration for many

reasons althought homeschooling is the only environment where it has

occured to the level required. Yes, it was a mistake, but kids can

bounce back to some degree. We can only ever work with the info we have

at the time and sometimes that means the info other people have at the

time. In any case my son is not perfectionistic for all that with the

exception of moral perfectionism (striving to do the absolute right

thing) althought he appears to be in remission at present. This may have

been caused/worsened by everyone (and I do mean everyone) constantly

telling him that just because he was gifted it didn't mean that he was a

good person. The unfortunate truth is that he is a better person than

most and it is too late for everyone to take back the way he has been

dealt with. But you know what? I am not angry about it. It is just the

way society has reacted to my son's giftedness and now I know better I

can start addressing his needs more effectively.

My endeavours to change the way society reacts to gifted children

continues but will only be as effective as the people who can make the

changes happen (other people). I can't control other people so I just

say my bit and be glad that I have a forum on which to air my views.

Thanks for listening

Rosie

> Good luck,

> Mamimiz

>

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In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

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parentsofadultswithOCD . You may access

the files, links, and archives for our list at

. Our list advisors are

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son is doing much better in school now that he's in the GATE program. He still doesn't feel he's learning much but it's much more than in a regular class. I t makes me angry that I had to do all the work to get him into this however. His teacher's last year didn't have a clue. They just thought he was lazy and his mind wandered. What it was was boredom and the OCD taking over.

Terry

Re: gifted

HI Dana:Before I learned to advocate for kids with NBDs I was an advocate for theGT program. Both my kids have been in these programs since they were about8 years old. I know some people feel these programs are discriminatory,but I believe that providing this kind of school environment for thesechildren is just another form of FAPE. I doubt I would have been able to keep my kids' interest going in schoolwithout this extra stimulation. I agree they should not become tutors ofothers, but should have their own enrichment. These children are differentand without this "accommodation" we run the risk of losing them by turningthem off school. They are not necessarily the leaders of tomorrow, butthey are kids with special needs of a particular sort.Before Steve was old enough for GT his teacher tried in class enrichmentbut confessed it was not successful, this in spite of her considerabletalents as an educator. Special programs customized to these kids are whatcan really help. Many teachers do not like to work with GT kids anddesigning a special program which exposes them to teachers who liketeaching them can make a big difference. Just my 2c worth. Take care,aloha, Kathy (H)kathyh@...At 10:47 AM 09/26/2000 -0400, you wrote:>My daughter, Ava, was labeled gifted in 2nd grade. She refused thepullout program because she found it disconcerting to be taken out ofclass. People thought I was crazy not to make her do it, like it was someprivilege she should be getting. In 3rd grade she already knew all of themath they were teaching for the year so they gave her a 4th grade folder ofmath she could do on her own. Yeah, right. She just read "Goosebumps" ather desk instead. She did the pullout program that year but thought it wasstupid, just extra work that was boring.>>I went to a meeting about the changes that were in the works for thegifted programs in the school district. I was appalled at the discussionwhich centered around how these kids were "the leaders of tomorrow becausethey are our best and brightest" and ways to improve their leadershipskills, like have them tutor the slower kids. I spoke up and said that Ihad no idea whether my child would be a "leader of tomorrow", teachingslower kids was not her forte and I was hoping that "gifted" would simplyinsure that she got work that was challenging at her level of ability.Isn't that what schools are supposed to do for any kid? And giftednessdoes not mean leadership.>There are probably some C students with much better people skills that weshouldn't just write off as followers or underachievers when they mightactually be a "leader of tomorrow". The whole room seemed to be full ofparents who wanted to take some kind of warped pride in their child'sgiftedness w/o looking at who their child really was. It was very elitist.>>Now that she's in middle school she is in advanced classes which suit herfine.>>Dana in NCYou may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD . You may access the files, links, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., and Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Roman, and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues, problems, or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at harkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Hey ... got a question ...

has been homeschooled up until this year. I knew he'd get anxious

about testing situations so I usually modified them just enough so that he

didn't realize he was being tested but I knew that he was learning ... we

called them reviews and or check ups (ain't I a sneaky one). Well, he started

Public School this year because I just couldn't do an appropriate job of

homeschooling him as he got higher and higher because of my health.

Well, he's been put into all the advanced classes, and his lowest grade is a

98% ... tests, homework whatever. But when they tested him for the gifted

program ... we only have gifted in our district ... not gifted and talented

.... he worried through the whole test. The teacher said he asked every two

minutes how much time he had left. Test scores come out ... he tested in the

17%ile! This is a kid who read Jurassic Park in the second grade folks! They

don't believe the test obviously or they'd be testing him for special ed. But

I'm not sure what to do at this point. We had planned on leaving his OCD out

of it ... thinking we could ... but obviously we can't. Should I be asking

for a 504 for him?

Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

[Guest guest]

> Hey ... got a question ...

>

> has been homeschooled up until this year. I knew he'd get

anxious

> about testing situations so I usually modified them just enough so

that he

> didn't realize he was being tested but I knew that he was learning ...

we

> called them reviews and or check ups (ain't I a sneaky one). Well, he

started

> Public School this year because I just couldn't do an appropriate job

of

> homeschooling him as he got higher and higher because of my health.

>

> Well, he's been put into all the advanced classes, and his lowest

grade is a

> 98% ... tests, homework whatever. But when they tested him for the

gifted

> program ... we only have gifted in our district ... not gifted and

talented

> ... he worried through the whole test. The teacher said he asked every

two

> minutes how much time he had left. Test scores come out ... he tested

in the

> 17%ile! This is a kid who read Jurassic Park in the second grade

folks! They

> don't believe the test obviously or they'd be testing him for special

ed. But

> I'm not sure what to do at this point. We had planned on leaving his

OCD out

> of it ... thinking we could ... but obviously we can't. Should I be

asking

> for a 504 for him?

>

> Peggikaye ...

Hi there,

A similar thing happened to my son, although I think he just dreamed

through the test because I'd told him how easy it would be for him

(obviously a mistake). I got nowhere with the school, the department or

anything but that is here in Australia where 504's don't exist (nor

anything like them). Could you get a medical certificate to say your son

was sick on the day and request a resit of the exam? By all accounts

this is what happened and if his educational needs are going to be

addressed then he is going to have his giftedness recognised. I assume

US posters will advise on the 504 issue.

Goodluck

Rosie

[Guest guest]

At least a 504. I'm beginning to think IEP for my son, even though he was turned down for a 504. The bad news is that the IDEA which mandates IEPs is under attack presently and will be reviewed for constitutionality by the Supreme Court. Advocates of Special Ed are staging a protest rally in Wash DC in October, but I am having surgery and couldn't go even if I thought it would be effective. But given that the help our kids need is at risk, find out what congressional, Senate, and especially presidential candidates view of the IDEA and IEPs is before you vote. They are the ones that appoint and approve Supreme Court judges, and as many as 4 new judges will be appointed by the new administration. I'm hearing that Democrats in general are likely to be more supportive of continuing the program. Anybody who hears anything specific about any particular candidate's views would be doing us a favor to pass it on. I know Tipper Gore's thing has been mental health parity, but I haven't heard much from spouse Al on that. We need to let them know this is something we are passionate about and consider when we vote.

Judy

Re: gifted

Hey ... got a question ... has been homeschooled up until this year. I knew he'd get anxious about testing situations so I usually modified them just enough so that he didn't realize he was being tested but I knew that he was learning ... we called them reviews and or check ups (ain't I a sneaky one). Well, he started Public School this year because I just couldn't do an appropriate job of homeschooling him as he got higher and higher because of my health. Well, he's been put into all the advanced classes, and his lowest grade is a 98% ... tests, homework whatever. But when they tested him for the gifted program ... we only have gifted in our district ... not gifted and talented ... he worried through the whole test. The teacher said he asked every two minutes how much time he had left. Test scores come out ... he tested in the 17%ile! This is a kid who read Jurassic Park in the second grade folks! They don't believe the test obviously or they'd be testing him for special ed. But I'm not sure what to do at this point. We had planned on leaving his OCD out of it ... thinking we could ... but obviously we can't. Should I be asking for a 504 for him?Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/00 3:26:14 AM Central Daylight Time,

kathyh@... writes:

> Have you read " Teaching the Tiger " by

> Marilyn Dornbush? This has some great ideas about getting the school to

> accommodate our kids, as well as strategies for school success for kids

> with NBDs. As a homeschooling mom you probably have wonderful suggestions

> for the teachers as to what works as accommodations for .

Yes, I read Teaching the Tiger ... before his diagnosis and with his brother

in mind rather than him ... after all I was homeschooling him and we had no

problems. I'm going to have to think about this on exactly what we did with

him. I know most of his tests were done orally or given as a " review " because

he'd freak out on tests, so we just did it in a way he could do it with the

least problems but so that I knew he was learning the material. We didn't

realize he had OCD until March ... up till then I thought he was gifted and

quirky not something actually wrong. After living with the diagnosis being a

reality for 6 months I can't figure out how we missed it. It's as obvious as

the nose on my face! (actually in my case that would be chin but that's

another story) We just did what he needed as the situation called for it ...

the beauty of homeschooling. Sigh.

Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

[Guest guest]

HI Peggikaye:

It is very likely was obsessing and could not do the test well when

he was being tested, as his reassurance seeking seems to indicate. Why not

discuss this with the teachers? Also you might be able to find out from

him what went on re: OCD during the test. If he has never experienced a

school testing situation this can be very stressful, enough to trigger his

OCD. Also test taking is a skill which can be developed to quite a

considerable extent through practice. Not giving him a time limit will

likely result in his finishing the test more quickly than if a time limit

is used.

If the test was mostly written you might want to ask for it to be

administered orally or using a computer or whatever will help deal with his

ritualizing and obsessing more. Have you read " Teaching the Tiger " by

Marilyn Dornbush? This has some great ideas about getting the school to

accommodate our kids, as well as strategies for school success for kids

with NBDs. As a homeschooling mom you probably have wonderful suggestions

for the teachers as to what works as accommodations for .

I know Steve is by no means the only 504 kid in his GT classes. In

elementary school the system seemed less able to cope with this, but in

intermediate school it is not at all unusual.

Good luck, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 12:20 PM 09/29/2000 +1000, you wrote:

>

>> Hey ... got a question ...

>>

>> has been homeschooled up until this year. I knew he'd get

>anxious

>> about testing situations so I usually modified them just enough so

>that he

>> didn't realize he was being tested but I knew that he was learning ...

>we

>> called them reviews and or check ups (ain't I a sneaky one). Well, he

>started

>> Public School this year because I just couldn't do an appropriate job

>of

>> homeschooling him as he got higher and higher because of my health.

>>

>> Well, he's been put into all the advanced classes, and his lowest

>grade is a

>> 98% ... tests, homework whatever. But when they tested him for the

>gifted

>> program ... we only have gifted in our district ... not gifted and

>talented

>> ... he worried through the whole test. The teacher said he asked every

>two

>> minutes how much time he had left. Test scores come out ... he tested

>in the

>> 17%ile! This is a kid who read Jurassic Park in the second grade

>folks! They

>> don't believe the test obviously or they'd be testing him for special

>ed. But

>> I'm not sure what to do at this point. We had planned on leaving his

>OCD out

>> of it ... thinking we could ... but obviously we can't. Should I be

>asking

>> for a 504 for him?

>>

>> Peggikaye ...

[Guest guest]

HI Peggikaye:

I doubt there are many parents on this list who were staring OCD in the

face and not seeing it. Certainly I was one of those, I just thought

Steve's OCD perfectionism was my reward for having one child who was so

easygoing and absentminded about school work.

Hang in there, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 07:41 AM 09/29/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>In a message dated 9/29/00 3:26:14 AM Central Daylight Time,

>kathyh@... writes:

>

>> Have you read " Teaching the Tiger " by

>> Marilyn Dornbush? This has some great ideas about getting the school to

>> accommodate our kids, as well as strategies for school success for kids

>> with NBDs. As a homeschooling mom you probably have wonderful suggestions

>> for the teachers as to what works as accommodations for .

>

>

>Yes, I read Teaching the Tiger ... before his diagnosis and with his brother

>in mind rather than him ... after all I was homeschooling him and we had no

>problems. I'm going to have to think about this on exactly what we did with

>him. I know most of his tests were done orally or given as a " review "

because

>he'd freak out on tests, so we just did it in a way he could do it with the

>least problems but so that I knew he was learning the material. We didn't

>realize he had OCD until March ... up till then I thought he was gifted and

>quirky not something actually wrong. After living with the diagnosis being a

>reality for 6 months I can't figure out how we missed it. It's as obvious as

>the nose on my face! (actually in my case that would be chin but that's

>another story) We just did what he needed as the situation called for it ...

>the beauty of homeschooling. Sigh.

>

>Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

[Guest guest]

Judy: Can you give more specific info as to where you

found out that this will be under review? In live in

Pennsylvania and I knew that the standards for

implementing this in PA were under review by our House

& senate, but I was unaware that it was also under

attack at the Federal level? I have a friend who in

an advocate that hasn't mentioned this and I would

like to tell her. Thanks,

--- Judy Lovchik <jlovchik@...> wrote:

> At least a 504. I'm beginning to think IEP for my

> son, even though he was turned down for a 504. The

> bad news is that the IDEA which mandates IEPs is

> under attack presently and will be reviewed for

> constitutionality by the Supreme Court. Advocates

> of Special Ed are staging a protest rally in Wash DC

> in October, but I am having surgery and couldn't go

> even if I thought it would be effective. But given

> that the help our kids need is at risk, find out

> what congressional, Senate, and especially

> presidential candidates view of the IDEA and IEPs is

> before you vote. They are the ones that appoint and

> approve Supreme Court judges, and as many as 4 new

> judges will be appointed by the new administration.

> I'm hearing that Democrats in general are likely to

> be more supportive of continuing the program.

> Anybody who hears anything specific about any

> particular candidate's views would be doing us a

> favor to pass it on. I know Tipper Gore's thing has

> been mental health parity, but I haven't heard much

> from spouse Al on that. We need to let them know

> this is something we are passionate about and

> consider when we vote.

>

> Judy

> Re: gifted

>

>

> Hey ... got a question ...

>

> has been homeschooled up until this year. I

> knew he'd get anxious

> about testing situations so I usually modified

> them just enough so that he

> didn't realize he was being tested but I knew that

> he was learning ... we

> called them reviews and or check ups (ain't I a

> sneaky one). Well, he started

> Public School this year because I just couldn't do

> an appropriate job of

> homeschooling him as he got higher and higher

> because of my health.

>

> Well, he's been put into all the advanced classes,

> and his lowest grade is a

> 98% ... tests, homework whatever. But when they

> tested him for the gifted

> program ... we only have gifted in our district

> ... not gifted and talented

> ... he worried through the whole test. The teacher

> said he asked every two

> minutes how much time he had left. Test scores

> come out ... he tested in the

> 17%ile! This is a kid who read Jurassic Park in

> the second grade folks! They

> don't believe the test obviously or they'd be

> testing him for special ed. But

> I'm not sure what to do at this point. We had

> planned on leaving his OCD out

> of it ... thinking we could ... but obviously we

> can't. Should I be asking

> for a 504 for him?

>

> Peggikaye ... Oklahoma

>

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>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Gifted by Suzette Ewer (From Quest Extra May/June 2005)

God gives each person a special gift to be used for the benefit of

others. It's important to focus on abilities rather than physical

challenges.

As a piano and voice teacher, I'm active and have many

responsibilities. The work of being a successful entrepreneur keeps me

focused on the needs of others. Music is also enjoyable and therapeutic

for me. Due to complications caused by the CMT, I regularly have

excruciating foot pain. Participating in singing helps relieve

depression, builds endurance and gives me something to think about

other than the physical suffering.

Suzette Ewer, 42, Boonville, Ind., Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease