New and overwhelmed.........oops other was sent before I finished!

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

My name is and I am 30 years old. I live

in NW Pennsylvania. I am married and have 3 children

ages 3,5 and 8. My eight year old son has OCD and

ADHD.

My son has always been extremely active. He sat

up at 5 1/2 months and walked at 8 months. He could

ride a two wheeled bike at 3. He has always seemed to

worry about very adults things. He is very impulsive.

As a child, if I told him NOT to do something, he

would turn right around and do it. When I asked him

why he did that when I just told him not to, he said,

" I forgot, my brain doesnt work like your brain does. "

He gets really worried about things. As a toddler he

had night terrors and as a preschooler he had such

severe separation anxiety that he was expelled from a

daycare situation. He would scream the entire time I

was gone without ceasing.

When he began school he had a lot of trouble

staying on task and sitting still. In kindergarten we

attributed it to his immaturity. (He is the youngest

in his class.)In first grade his teacher noticed that

his behavior seemed to worsen around times that his

sister had medical procedures or hospitalizations

done.(She has a physical disability that requires

frequent hospitalization and I had to go to the

hospital with her to stay.)Looking back at it now and

thinking about his questions and concern that she

would die or that he would get sick, I think it was

OCD related. In second grade his teacher reported the

same behaviors and his grades were starting to be

affected. He was making noise or talking at

inappropriate time, constanly out of his seat,

fidgeting, daydreaming, doodling ect. She warned that

if we didnt take measures to help him that when his

work became more independent and less teacher directed

in third grade he would struggle. The guidance

counselor stepped in and suggested that the teacher

and I do a behavior checklist for ADD/ADHD. We

compared the two, and found that our scores were

within 2 points of each other. That meant we were

seeing the same behavior at school and at home. They

suggested that I take the results to my MD. Our

pediatrician explained that since there is no test for

ADD/ADHD that the only way to see if that is what the

problem is would be to try the meds and see if they

work. Now, I really had issues with putting my son on

meds but common sense won out. I knew that if his

problems were affecting his ability to function

academically then we as parents needed to do

something.

The meds worked great for a month or two. Then

he began to have horrible intrusive thoughts.These

were mostly of a sexual nature, but also some violent

ones and ones about things he had imagined himself

doing that were " breaking rules. " I should comment at

this point that he had intrusive thoughts prior to

taking the meds, but they were very few and far

between. His dad and I, although we were concerned,

dismissed it as a phase and ignored it hoping it would

go away.We were so stressed out dealing with his

sisters problems and her diagnosis that we couldnt

deal with this too.I spoke with an abuse crisis

counselor and with my son to reassure myself that he

hadnt been abused as this was our primary worry. He

has also been exposed to abuse prevention programs

every year sice he was in preschool as part of our

school district curriculum and at home and had plenty

of opportunities to speak with crisis counselors. When

something would come up, it would be upsetting to us

for a while but then once things went better for a

while, we could forget about it and breathe a sigh of

relief. This time, however, was different. He became

very anxious about these thoughts. He knew that they

were strange and they upset him greatly. He began

coming to me 3 times a day: morning, after school and

evening to report all of the thoughts he had, and get

reassurance that he did not do anything wrong or that

he wasnt weird. His dad and I began to worry that he

was seriously emotionally disturbed. We took him to an

associate of mine, a therapist with a MSW. After

talking with us, she met with him and then brought us

all together and asked us to see the psychiatric

doctor there. He told us that he felt that our son had

OCD, and that the ADHD meds had slowed down his brain

enough that it caused the intrusive thoughts to become

worse.Confessing these thoughts or imagined actions to

me was his compulsion. He suggested taking him off of

the Adderal and trying Zoloft. We tried the Zoloft for

about two months and it was awful. He had sleep

disturbances and he walked around like he was wired

all the time. We couldnt take it anymore and asked for

a medicine change. So now we are on Paxil and after a

couple months we are finally at the dose where they

want him. It works great for the intrusive thoughts

but he is still very hyper and is really doing very

poorly in school. The inattentivenes, impulsivity, and

high activity level is still there.The doctor who

prescribed his meds said that anything he gives him

for the OCD will make the ADHD worse and vice versa.

This doctor just left the practice and went to a

nearby psychiatric hospital so now we need to locate

another. We are hoping to find someone who will take a

more agressive approach with the meds. We are

scheduled to see someone Friday for the first time.

I am slowly learning about OCD. I think he still

worries about things but he doesnt get so anxious

about them. The medicine has helped that. Some things

that bug me are that if you tell him to stop doing

something he has to do it one more time. If you tell

him " no " then he has to keep repeating that he is

going to do the thing over and over as if saying it

will make it true. This drives us batty. He constantly

asks the same questions over and over. If we are going

somewhere he has to ask me after each stop what we are

doing next even if I have already explained it to him

to make sure plans havent changed. The Instructional

Support teacher says she has never met anyone like him

in her life. The first day she met him, she completely

interrupted his world. He came to her office

repeatedly all day to make sure what time she was

coming to work with him and make sure that the time

didn't change. It seemed to be all he could think

about.

I am only used to calling the intrusive thoughts

his OCD. Are these other things OCD too? Is the

medicine supposed to help prevent him from doing these

things, or is it to relieve the anxiety he feels about

doing them?

I would appreciate hearing any thoughts or

advice anyone has. Thank you for this support list. I

am so tired of feeling like the only one alive dealing

with this. Just reading your experiences makes me feel

better.

Drake

P.S. The chocolate spa sounds great! And only 5 hours

away!

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

:

I, too, have a son (now 12) with OCD, ADHD and some other alphabet soup. ADHD

is often the first diagnosis kids with OCD receive, and it is a common

co-morbidity with OCD. Stimulants can exacerbate OCD symptoms -- my son became

totally non-functional due to Adderall and ended up in the hospital. As soon as

it was discontinued he improved dramatically. He now takes Celexa (an SSRI),

Risperdal (an atypical antipsychotic -- don't let that classification scare

you), and Wellbutrin (an atypical antidepressant). In the morning he takes a

small dose of Ritalin on school days to help him focus. However, the adequate

dose of antidepressant along with the risperdal has made his ADHD symptoms

pretty manageable. I am cautious with the Ritalin, but I worry less about it

since it is so short acting.

The reassurance seeking is common OCD behavior. There are some wonderful books

out there that I recommend. March and Mulle's OCD in Children and

Adolescents; Mitzi Waltz's book is good, Tamar Chansky -- one of our list

advisors -- also has a book on childhood OCD. You may be able to get them off

the shelf at Borders or and Noble, or you can order them from the OC

Foundation www.ocfoundation.org. You can also get a list of docs from the OCF.

You want someone who is trained in exposure and response prevention (ERP). That

is the first line treatment for childhood OCD.

I'd also recommend you contact your local NAMI (National Alliance for the

Mentally Ill) affiliate. Look in the phone book, or go to www.nami.org. NAMI

affiliates have support groups and educational programs for consumers and family

members. Their website is packed with good information.

Jule in Cleveland

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcome. Your son's story is a familiar one to me and I'm sure

many parents on this list. I had forgotten about the period of time shortly

before my daughter's OCD onset when I wondered if she had been abused. My

daughter's developmental history of very active, early milestones etc. is

alot like your son's.

You wrote:

> worry about very adults things. He is very impulsive.

> As a child, if I told him NOT to do something, he

> would turn right around and do it. When I asked him

> why he did that when I just told him not to, he said,

> " I forgot, my brain doesnt work like your brain does. "

My daughter's OCD has a component of worrying about things, then actually

doing things to make the worry come true. If she is told not to do

something, she experiences an intense compulsive urge to do just that. This

happens irrespective of the fact that she knows there will be consequences

if she does the thing.

> He gets really worried about things. As a toddler he

> had night terrors and as a preschooler he had such

> severe separation anxiety that he was expelled from a

> daycare situation. He would scream the entire time I

> was gone without ceasing.

My daughter had a sudden, pronounced episode of separation anxiety (very out

of character) at age four a few months before her OCD onset, this persisted

for several months more before subsiding. This is also a common thing in

OCD in young kids.

> When he began school he had a lot of trouble

> staying on task and sitting still. In kindergarten we

> attributed it to his immaturity. (He is the youngest

> in his class.)In first grade his teacher noticed that

> his behavior seemed to worsen around times that his

> sister had medical procedures or hospitalizations

> done.(She has a physical disability that requires

> frequent hospitalization and I had to go to the

> hospital with her to stay.)Looking back at it now and

> thinking about his questions and concern that she

> would die or that he would get sick, I think it was

> OCD related.

I agree. I recognize these symptoms from my own daughter's behavior. Many

of her compulsions are to keep us alive and well.

> I am slowly learning about OCD. I think he still

> worries about things but he doesnt get so anxious

> about them. The medicine has helped that. Some things

> that bug me are that if you tell him to stop doing

> something he has to do it one more time. If you tell

> him " no " then he has to keep repeating that he is

> going to do the thing over and over as if saying it

> will make it true. This drives us batty. He constantly

> asks the same questions over and over. If we are going

> somewhere he has to ask me after each stop what we are

> doing next even if I have already explained it to him

> to make sure plans havent changed.

This reassurance-seeking is a common OCD compulsion. You've probably

noticed the more you answer, the more he questions. A more helpful way to

deal with this type of compulsion is to agree ahead of time to only answer a

question twice, for example. You can expect this to increase your son's

anxiety initially, but over time it will reduce the hold this compulsion has

on him.

> I am only used to calling the intrusive thoughts

> his OCD. Are these other things OCD too? Is the

> medicine supposed to help prevent him from doing these

> things, or is it to relieve the anxiety he feels about

> doing them?

The intrusive thoughts are the obsessions and the persistent questioning is

the compulsion. Obsessions and compulsions can change either abruptly or

over time. SSRIs such as Zoloft and Paxil can lower anxiety and help reduce

the need for your son to seek reassurance. The meds don't " cure " OCD

usually, but instead reduce the intensity of the symptoms.

Does your son participate in Exposure and Response Prevention therapy? This

therapy is the only type that can reduce OCD symptoms. Some kids are

treated with this therapy alone and some also take meds. With successful

E & RP a child can reduce or eliminate SSRIs and thereby the behavioral and

other side effects they can cause.

> I would appreciate hearing any thoughts or

> advice anyone has. Thank you for this support list. I

> am so tired of feeling like the only one alive dealing

> with this. Just reading your experiences makes me feel

> better.

You are far from the only one dealing with this! Again, welcome.

Kathy R in Indiana