Guest guest Posted May 2, 2001 Report Share Posted May 2, 2001 -- I live thousands of miles away from Denver. For those of us who can't make it to the workshop (for whatever reasons), how can I get this information? Is it in manual form? Plus, do you know of any conferences being held on the East Coast? Another question that I've meant to ask is this: Do children with OCD qualify for disability (under U.S. Social Security)? If so, how would it benefit my son? Pros and cons, anyone? Thanks, Joni > Since the topic of survival has come up, I'm going to > use the opportunity to advertise a workshop that Kathy > Hammes and I ( Birkhan) are leading at the > Obsessive Compulsive Foundations annual conference. > > Saturday, July 21/01; 10 - 11am > Survival Manual for Parents: > What to do Between Doctors Visits! > > This practical workshop is specifically for people > living with children, or adults, with obsessive > compulsive disorder. Our goal is to help you > strategize and take back control of your lives. > > hope to see you there!! > > _______________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 I also have the same question as Joni , is it possibile to get this information in manual form. Austalia is even further away from Denver than where Joni lives. what a pity you cant come to australia and do a conference here, I still think I'm the only one in australia who has heard of OCD. Just joking. we actually saw a story on a current affairs program the other night of a person who has OCD with hoarding issues and my daughter was fascinated to see this persons house TOTALLY filled with stuff, she said my problems dont seem so bad. Kerrie > > Since the topic of survival has come up, I'm going to > > use the opportunity to advertise a workshop that Kathy > > Hammes and I ( Birkhan) are leading at the > > Obsessive Compulsive Foundations annual conference. > > > > Saturday, July 21/01; 10 - 11am > > Survival Manual for Parents: > > What to do Between Doctors Visits! > > > > This practical workshop is specifically for people > > living with children, or adults, with obsessive > > compulsive disorder. Our goal is to help you > > strategize and take back control of your lives. > > > > hope to see you there!! > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2001 Report Share Posted May 4, 2001 , Do you know if these sessions are going to be audio or video taped this year for those who cannot attend? My husband has been unemployed since February and at this point I don't think we will make it to Denver. Thanks - --- w birkhan <birkhanw@...> wrote: > Since the topic of survival has come up, I'm going > to > use the opportunity to advertise a workshop that > Kathy > Hammes and I ( Birkhan) are leading at the > Obsessive Compulsive Foundations annual conference. > > Saturday, July 21/01; 10 - 11am > Survival Manual for Parents: > What to do Between Doctors Visits! > > This practical workshop is specifically for people > living with children, or adults, with obsessive > compulsive disorder. Our goal is to help you > strategize and take back control of your lives. > > hope to see you there!! > > _______________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2001 Report Share Posted May 4, 2001 , Too bad about your husband. We're in the same situation. My husband is eligable for retraining under a gov't program, so he's considering this option. I cannot find any reference to audio or video tapes, but there is an email with conference questions: annualconference@... About mailing out packages of information, I'm sure that Kathy H and I can put something together and mail them out after the conference. There will be other articles, etc. to include, so there's no sense mailing anything before hand. You will be with us in spirit, as are all of our 'parents' from this list. take care, wendy PS. Conference info site: http://www.ocfoundation.org/cgi-bin/dld001_a.pl ================================= , Do you know if these sessions are going to be audio or video taped this year for those who cannot attend? My husband has been unemployed since February and at this point I don't think we will make it to Denver. Thanks - _______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Hi Kathy, It would wonderful if I can particpate in this workshop that you & Birkhan are leading at the OCF annual conference, together with my husband & my son Amer. I live in Lebanon, my husband & me have USA Visa, but its difficult to get one for my son, he is now 17 years. I wonder how can we get helped with that. I'm thinking of one way if he gets some sort of an invitation from you or anybody in this istitute to present it to the Embassy, this might help him to get it. Or if you have any other advise that helps in this subject. I think it would be very helpfull for Amer to be in this workshop, second it would be a very good change to be out of town, as we did last summer the whole family went to Cyprus, he enjoyed it very much, I remember that he told me mom I don't need any medications anymore, I'm free of symptoms, but sure I kept giving him the med. So I'll be wating to hear from you about any point of view concerning this subject, thanks. Huda >From: Joye <cjoye16@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: OCF workshop in denver >Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:41:28 -0700 (PDT) > >, Do you know if these sessions are going to be >audio or video taped this year for those who cannot >attend? My husband has been unemployed since February >and at this point I don't think we will make it to >Denver. Thanks - >--- w birkhan <birkhanw@...> wrote: > > Since the topic of survival has come up, I'm going > > to > > use the opportunity to advertise a workshop that > > Kathy > > Hammes and I ( Birkhan) are leading at the > > Obsessive Compulsive Foundations annual conference. > > > > Saturday, July 21/01; 10 - 11am > > Survival Manual for Parents: > > What to do Between Doctors Visits! > > > > This practical workshop is specifically for people > > living with children, or adults, with obsessive > > compulsive disorder. Our goal is to help you > > strategize and take back control of your lives. > > > > hope to see you there!! > > > > >_______________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Hi Huda: I would be very happy to write you a letter saying I hope to see you at the conference. I am just an OCD mom however, do you need something more official from the OCF itself. Perhaps Patti Perkins-Doyle would be happy to send you an invitation. I know how hard it can be to get a visa to the USA from personal experience, is this true for a minor like your son? Have you asked the embassy to give him one and been turned down? I would think as he is still a minor and a dependent they would be willing to have him accompany you and his dad to the USA to attend the conference. They will likely want to see proof of his/your financial ability to sustain himself during his stay and that he has a return ticket. Usually they like to see that he has ties to LEbanon e.g. in school, etc. so he will be returning. It is not unusual for a young person without obvious ties to be turned down initially for a visa. It also depends on where you apply, some embassies (in my experience) are stricter than others. It would be a wonderful experience for Amer to meet other young people like himself with OCD. Attending the conference does not necessarily stop them saying they don't have OCD, but it does help them feel less stigmatized and alone and it certainly starts them on the road to getting into CBT. If you want to give me more details about the letter please write me directly. Showing that Amer has contacts in the country who are welcoming him should help his chances of getting a visa. It would be great to meet you in Denver Huda. Also to meet your husband. Take care, aloha, Kathy (h) kathyh@... At 06:03 AM 05/07/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi Kathy, > It would wonderful if I can particpate in this workshop that you & > Birkhan are leading at the OCF annual conference, together with my >husband & my son Amer. I live in Lebanon, my husband & me have USA Visa, but >its difficult to get one for my son, he is now 17 years. I wonder how can we >get helped with that. I'm thinking of one way if he gets some sort of an >invitation from you or anybody in this istitute to present it to the >Embassy, this might help him to get it. Or if you have any other advise that >helps in this subject. I think it would be very helpfull for Amer to be in >this workshop, second it would be a very good change to be out of town, as >we did last summer the whole family went to Cyprus, he enjoyed it very much, >I remember that he told me mom I don't need any medications anymore, I'm >free of symptoms, but sure I kept giving him the med. So I'll be wating to >hear from you about any point of view concerning this subject, thanks. >Huda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 Hi Kathy, Thank you for responding to me. Yes I think if we get an official invitation from OCF itself might be a better chance for Amer to get a Visa, bisides sure we have to get him a certificate from his school that he is registered for 2001-2002 school year, plus a statement of our bank account. We have to get also a reservation in one of the Hotels in the area of the conference. So if we can start with the invitation from Mrs, Patti Perkins-Doyle, to send it to my e-mail address & if you can tell me what Hotels are in the area to try to do the reserevation. It is difficult to get visas to males or females at his age, as I mentioned he is now seventeen going to eighteen, they think at the embassy that he will be staying in US.I did not ask the embassy yet if he can get a visa, b/c if they don't want to give him visa they stamp on his pasport something like application not accepted, that we can't get it to any other US embassy in any country. Unfortunatly we don't have US embassy in Lebanon, was closed during the war, but now we can send the application through one of the banks the embassy agreed to deal with. We might face another difficulty as we did last year when we took visas to UK for the whole family, since starting June to Sept. is a high season, we were not able to find places, all flights were full, so instead we took them to cyprus for few days. I know that it would be good for him to meet & comunicate with children like him having the same problem, as I'd love to meet parents who have the same sufferings as we do with this disorder.I'll pray that things will work out & will come up to our expectations & we'll be able to meet all of you. Take care Huda >From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: OCF workshop in denver >Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:55:26 -1000 > >Hi Huda: > >I would be very happy to write you a letter saying I hope to see you at the >conference. I am just an OCD mom however, do you need something more >official from the OCF itself. Perhaps Patti Perkins-Doyle would be happy >to send you an invitation. I know how hard it can be to get a visa to the >USA from personal experience, is this true for a minor like your son? Have >you asked the embassy to give him one and been turned down? I would think >as he is still a minor and a dependent they would be willing to have him >accompany you and his dad to the USA to attend the conference. They will >likely want to see proof of his/your financial ability to sustain himself >during his stay and that he has a return ticket. Usually they like to see >that he has ties to LEbanon e.g. in school, etc. so he will be returning. > >It is not unusual for a young person without obvious ties to be turned down >initially for a visa. It also depends on where you apply, some embassies >(in my experience) are stricter than others. It would be a wonderful >experience for Amer to meet other young people like himself with OCD. >Attending the conference does not necessarily stop them saying they don't >have OCD, but it does help them feel less stigmatized and alone and it >certainly starts them on the road to getting into CBT. > >If you want to give me more details about the letter please write me >directly. Showing that Amer has contacts in the country who are welcoming >him should help his chances of getting a visa. > >It would be great to meet you in Denver Huda. Also to meet your husband. >Take care, aloha, Kathy (h) >kathyh@... > >At 06:03 AM 05/07/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Hi Kathy, > > It would wonderful if I can particpate in this workshop that you & > > Birkhan are leading at the OCF annual conference, together with my > >husband & my son Amer. I live in Lebanon, my husband & me have USA Visa, >but > >its difficult to get one for my son, he is now 17 years. I wonder how can >we > >get helped with that. I'm thinking of one way if he gets some sort of an > >invitation from you or anybody in this istitute to present it to the > >Embassy, this might help him to get it. Or if you have any other advise >that > >helps in this subject. I think it would be very helpfull for Amer to be >in > >this workshop, second it would be a very good change to be out of town, >as > >we did last summer the whole family went to Cyprus, he enjoyed it very >much, > >I remember that he told me mom I don't need any medications anymore, I'm > >free of symptoms, but sure I kept giving him the med. So I'll be wating >to > >hear from you about any point of view concerning this subject, thanks. > >Huda > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 Hi Kathy, Time is passing, the conference is becoming nearer. You mentioned the name of Patti Perkinns-Doyle that might send my son & me an invitations to this conference to be able to take a visa for Amer. How can I contact Patti, can I have her e-mail to write her. Thank you in advance. Huda >From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: OCF workshop in denver >Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:55:26 -1000 > >Hi Huda: > >I would be very happy to write you a letter saying I hope to see you at the >conference. I am just an OCD mom however, do you need something more >official from the OCF itself. Perhaps Patti Perkins-Doyle would be happy >to send you an invitation. I know how hard it can be to get a visa to the >USA from personal experience, is this true for a minor like your son? Have >you asked the embassy to give him one and been turned down? I would think >as he is still a minor and a dependent they would be willing to have him >accompany you and his dad to the USA to attend the conference. They will >likely want to see proof of his/your financial ability to sustain himself >during his stay and that he has a return ticket. Usually they like to see >that he has ties to LEbanon e.g. in school, etc. so he will be returning. > >It is not unusual for a young person without obvious ties to be turned down >initially for a visa. It also depends on where you apply, some embassies >(in my experience) are stricter than others. It would be a wonderful >experience for Amer to meet other young people like himself with OCD. >Attending the conference does not necessarily stop them saying they don't >have OCD, but it does help them feel less stigmatized and alone and it >certainly starts them on the road to getting into CBT. > >If you want to give me more details about the letter please write me >directly. Showing that Amer has contacts in the country who are welcoming >him should help his chances of getting a visa. > >It would be great to meet you in Denver Huda. Also to meet your husband. >Take care, aloha, Kathy (h) >kathyh@... > >At 06:03 AM 05/07/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Hi Kathy, > > It would wonderful if I can particpate in this workshop that you & > > Birkhan are leading at the OCF annual conference, together with my > >husband & my son Amer. I live in Lebanon, my husband & me have USA Visa, >but > >its difficult to get one for my son, he is now 17 years. I wonder how can >we > >get helped with that. I'm thinking of one way if he gets some sort of an > >invitation from you or anybody in this istitute to present it to the > >Embassy, this might help him to get it. Or if you have any other advise >that > >helps in this subject. I think it would be very helpfull for Amer to be >in > >this workshop, second it would be a very good change to be out of town, >as > >we did last summer the whole family went to Cyprus, he enjoyed it very >much, > >I remember that he told me mom I don't need any medications anymore, I'm > >free of symptoms, but sure I kept giving him the med. So I'll be wating >to > >hear from you about any point of view concerning this subject, thanks. > >Huda > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2001 Report Share Posted May 16, 2001 Hi Huda: Why not email Jeanette Cole at cole@... She is one of the major conference organizers and hopefully can help. If not I am very happy to get a letter to you inviting you to visit us at the conference. My husband has a Ph.D. (he is an economist) and sometimes I have waved him around to get officials to pay attention - VBG. Please let me know how I can help. How about asking Dr. Jenike to help? He is a key member of the OCF and has the best credentials. His email is jenike@.... Please let me know how things are going and what I can do to help. Take care, warmest aloha, Kathy P.S. I did email the OCF but got a note saying they were away on vacation and would return this week. So far I don't think they have dug their way out of the masses of work. K. At 06:45 AM 05/16/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi Kathy, >Time is passing, the conference is becoming nearer. You mentioned the name >of Patti Perkinns-Doyle that might send my son & me an invitations to this >conference to be able to take a visa for Amer. How can I contact Patti, can >I have her e-mail to write her. Thank you in advance. >Huda > >>From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> >>Reply- >> >>Subject: Re: OCF workshop in denver >>Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:55:26 -1000 >> >>Hi Huda: >> >>I would be very happy to write you a letter saying I hope to see you at the >>conference. I am just an OCD mom however, do you need something more >>official from the OCF itself. Perhaps Patti Perkins-Doyle would be happy >>to send you an invitation. I know how hard it can be to get a visa to the >>USA from personal experience, is this true for a minor like your son? Have >>you asked the embassy to give him one and been turned down? I would think >>as he is still a minor and a dependent they would be willing to have him >>accompany you and his dad to the USA to attend the conference. They will >>likely want to see proof of his/your financial ability to sustain himself >>during his stay and that he has a return ticket. Usually they like to see >>that he has ties to LEbanon e.g. in school, etc. so he will be returning. >> >>It is not unusual for a young person without obvious ties to be turned down >>initially for a visa. It also depends on where you apply, some embassies >>(in my experience) are stricter than others. It would be a wonderful >>experience for Amer to meet other young people like himself with OCD. >>Attending the conference does not necessarily stop them saying they don't >>have OCD, but it does help them feel less stigmatized and alone and it >>certainly starts them on the road to getting into CBT. >> >>If you want to give me more details about the letter please write me >>directly. Showing that Amer has contacts in the country who are welcoming >>him should help his chances of getting a visa. >> >>It would be great to meet you in Denver Huda. Also to meet your husband. >>Take care, aloha, Kathy (h) >>kathyh@... >> >>At 06:03 AM 05/07/2001 +0000, you wrote: >> > >> >Hi Kathy, >> > It would wonderful if I can particpate in this workshop that you & >> > Birkhan are leading at the OCF annual conference, together with my >> >husband & my son Amer. I live in Lebanon, my husband & me have USA Visa, >>but >> >its difficult to get one for my son, he is now 17 years. I wonder how can >>we >> >get helped with that. I'm thinking of one way if he gets some sort of an >> >invitation from you or anybody in this istitute to present it to the >> >Embassy, this might help him to get it. Or if you have any other advise >>that >> >helps in this subject. I think it would be very helpfull for Amer to be >>in >> >this workshop, second it would be a very good change to be out of town, >>as >> >we did last summer the whole family went to Cyprus, he enjoyed it very >>much, >> >I remember that he told me mom I don't need any medications anymore, I'm >> >free of symptoms, but sure I kept giving him the med. So I'll be wating >>to >> >hear from you about any point of view concerning this subject, thanks. >> >Huda >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > >You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... . > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2001 Report Share Posted June 18, 2001 Hi Kathy, I have some bad news according to the visa to Amer. As I mentioned before, we had an appointment with the American Embassy yesterday on the 17th. I was taking with me all documents that can prove that there are lots of ties for Amer to be in Lebanon. What happened is that they only took the application with the pasport, & asked him few questions like how long are you staying there, do you have any relatives there & he told her yes my cousin in NJ, & why you are going, we showed her the invitation that was sent to me by Jeanette Cole by e-mail, she askes what OCF, we answered her & told her that my son has this OCD & was recommended & advised to attend the workshop, then right away she siad I'm sorry you can't have a visa & with no arugument. I was very mucy upset so Amer, she did not give us the chance to show her anything. I'm thinking in writting a petition to the counselor to explain for him what took place & tell him about all the decuments that we have that are considered ties for Amer to be in Lebanon, & if he is fair enough he be positive with us, what do you think. You have mentioned to me in this message that I'm replying to it as I still have it in my folder, that your husband is Ph.D & he is an economist, do you have any idia if he can help us in anyway, sure he has relations with high levels in the States. I'm still having the reservation that was very much difficult to us to resereve, as it is now the high season. Please, I wonder if you do have any idia to helpling us, I'm waiting to hear from you. Thanks Huda >From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: OCF workshop in denver >Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:07:51 -1000 > >Hi Huda: > >Why not email Jeanette Cole at cole@... > >She is one of the major conference organizers and hopefully can help. If >not I am very happy to get a letter to you inviting you to visit us at the >conference. My husband has a Ph.D. (he is an economist) and sometimes I >have waved him around to get officials to pay attention - VBG. Please let >me know how I can help. > >How about asking Dr. Jenike to help? He is a key member of the OCF and has >the best credentials. His email is jenike@.... > >Please let me know how things are going and what I can do to help. Take >care, warmest aloha, Kathy > >P.S. I did email the OCF but got a note saying they were away on vacation >and would return this week. So far I don't think they have dug their way >out of the masses of work. K. > >At 06:45 AM 05/16/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Hi Kathy, > >Time is passing, the conference is becoming nearer. You mentioned the >name > >of Patti Perkinns-Doyle that might send my son & me an invitations to >this > >conference to be able to take a visa for Amer. How can I contact Patti, >can > >I have her e-mail to write her. Thank you in advance. > >Huda > > > >>From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...> > >>Reply- > >> > >>Subject: Re: OCF workshop in denver > >>Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 09:55:26 -1000 > >> > >>Hi Huda: > >> > >>I would be very happy to write you a letter saying I hope to see you at >the > >>conference. I am just an OCD mom however, do you need something more > >>official from the OCF itself. Perhaps Patti Perkins-Doyle would be >happy > >>to send you an invitation. I know how hard it can be to get a visa to >the > >>USA from personal experience, is this true for a minor like your son? >Have > >>you asked the embassy to give him one and been turned down? I would >think > >>as he is still a minor and a dependent they would be willing to have him > >>accompany you and his dad to the USA to attend the conference. They >will > >>likely want to see proof of his/your financial ability to sustain >himself > >>during his stay and that he has a return ticket. Usually they like to >see > >>that he has ties to LEbanon e.g. in school, etc. so he will be >returning. > >> > >>It is not unusual for a young person without obvious ties to be turned >down > >>initially for a visa. It also depends on where you apply, some >embassies > >>(in my experience) are stricter than others. It would be a wonderful > >>experience for Amer to meet other young people like himself with OCD. > >>Attending the conference does not necessarily stop them saying they >don't > >>have OCD, but it does help them feel less stigmatized and alone and it > >>certainly starts them on the road to getting into CBT. > >> > >>If you want to give me more details about the letter please write me > >>directly. Showing that Amer has contacts in the country who are >welcoming > >>him should help his chances of getting a visa. > >> > >>It would be great to meet you in Denver Huda. Also to meet your husband. > >>Take care, aloha, Kathy (h) > >>kathyh@... > >> > >>At 06:03 AM 05/07/2001 +0000, you wrote: > >> > > >> >Hi Kathy, > >> > It would wonderful if I can particpate in this workshop that you > & > >> > Birkhan are leading at the OCF annual conference, together with >my > >> >husband & my son Amer. I live in Lebanon, my husband & me have USA >Visa, > >>but > >> >its difficult to get one for my son, he is now 17 years. I wonder how >can > >>we > >> >get helped with that. I'm thinking of one way if he gets some sort of >an > >> >invitation from you or anybody in this istitute to present it to the > >> >Embassy, this might help him to get it. Or if you have any other >advise > >>that > >> >helps in this subject. I think it would be very helpfull for Amer to >be > >>in > >> >this workshop, second it would be a very good change to be out of >town, > >>as > >> >we did last summer the whole family went to Cyprus, he enjoyed it very > >>much, > >> >I remember that he told me mom I don't need any medications anymore, >I'm > >> >free of symptoms, but sure I kept giving him the med. So I'll be >wating > >>to > >> >hear from you about any point of view concerning this subject, thanks. > >> >Huda > >> > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > >You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In >the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may >subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at >parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to >the OCD and Homeschooling List at >ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your >subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our >list at . Our list advisors >are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. > Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail >Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or >suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at >lharkins@... . > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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