Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Sorry for the misunderstanding (I think). Medicare is only for those over 65 and is not welfare (mostly). The longer it goes on, though, the more it becomes a welfare program. Medicaid is a welfare program and it does have a component for the elderly poor. That component supplements Medicare. Now I get it! Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner Actually, I have a degree in public administration with extra work in federal finance, plus Hill and state level experience. I know how the program works - reread my original post. I was describing what should happen to it, since it serves two constituencies - those who require long term care (especially the elderly) and those who are on TANF or among the working poor. As I stated, these two groups have different needs and should be served by separate programs. Indeed, the working poor and those poor in need of education (and who should be paid to get it) should be covered through work or as if they were working. The other program should be combined with Medicare and taken away from state governments entirely (unless of course Medicare is made a state level program so that they become responsible for cost control). Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Valarie <val@...> Subject: RE: Re: Doc choice hyperaldosteronism Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 7:32 PM , you have no idea what you're talking about. Medicaid and Medicare are two totally separate programs. Medicare is for those over 65. While people have no choice in insurance, it is not a welfare program. People paid into it for many years while employed (although not enough). Medicaid is a welfare program. Medicaid is administered by the states with federal supplementation. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner Medicaid is really two separate programs - one for the poor and one for the elderly. They should be separated.. Now, it is an interesting question whether the part that is for the elderly should be altogether federal or whether Medicare as a whole should be administered by the individual states. It should go one way or the other, although it can't be funded that way or else Florida and the Midwest will go broke. • Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 " Unfunded liability " means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 At least they won't rAke it all Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Nov 10, 2009, at 6:45 PM, Valarie <val@...> wrote: "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 this assumes a flat economy and ever rising health care costs and the same dismal population numbers that we have been achieving. Add more fecund latino immigrants and increase the benefit for childbirth for all and the numbers are not quite so bad. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Valarie <val@...>Subject: RE: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social Security and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 What every happens to the economy is going to affect us all. What is going on now is changing to our economy. Time will tell if the changes are good or bad. But past history has showed that Government run economys are not a good thing. We seen to be heading for a Government run economy. All this money that the Government is giving out is really worthless paper. People are still loosing jobs faster then new jobs being added. Still looseing there homes, cars, credit cards and other things. We are being told we are having a jobless recovery. It is nice to know that the cost of living didn't go up last year so no raise is Gov. programs like SS. Of course the whole cost of living thing is a joke as it doesn't include the the cost of food or energy. I just wounder if there has been and time in the past if cost of living didn't go up. Until we know what was happned to our economy I don't think we can know how to plan health care costs. If there less jobs then there is going to less money from employers to fund health care. With less jobs tere will be less tax money to fund Gov. health care. > > > From: Valarie <val@...> > Subject: RE: Re: Doc choice > hyperaldosteronism > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM > > > > " Unfunded liability " means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: > > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: > > a.. When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. > b.. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. > c.. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > > Val > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner > > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). > > Bindner > > > ,_._,___ > > > > > > __________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009  It won't be flat of course. 1993 started 18 B funding for the inet. Today's market cap of Google alone is 178 B. I expect 74 T in deficit funding will result in 740 T economic growth, which will provide any medical study, training, drugs, equipment, hospital for all U.S. people and the deficit will be 100 T in < 20 years. Not to worry it's only one's and zeroes on a piece of paper. Regards RE: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social Security and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,_____________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The article does not detail what assumptions were made. I assume historical growth rates of population and income growth were projected forward. Without illegal immigration, Americans are not replacing themselves. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner this assumes a flat economy and ever rising health care costs and the same dismal population numbers that we have been achieving. --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Valarie <val@...> wrote:  " Unfunded liability " means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > " Unfunded liability " means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: > > > > > > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations: > > > > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate. > > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year. > > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden! > > http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662 > > > > Val > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of > > Bindner > > > > > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free). > > > > Bindner > > > > ,_._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 You can always move to Sweden where taxes can exceed your income. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 10:07AM, "Francis Bill" <georgewbill@...> wrote: > It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: > > > > > > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations: > > > > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate. > > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year. > > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden! > > http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662 > > > > Val > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of > > Bindner > > > > > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free). > > > > Bindner > > > > ,_._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 You can always move to Sweden where taxes can exceed your income. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 10:07AM, "Francis Bill" <georgewbill@...> wrote: > It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: > > > > > > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations: > > > > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate. > > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year. > > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden! > > http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662 > > > > Val > > > > > > > > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of > > Bindner > > > > > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free). > > > > Bindner > > > > ,_._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The question is whether the price of insurance reflects just the cost of health care, or if there is a bit more profit extraction going on than companies are willing to admit. BTW, the government is not taking over health care and tax support for buying insurance has been going on for a long, long time. Price supports for poorer Americans are being added and insurance companies are to be more heavily regulated federally (since state regulation, which will also still exist, has failed to deal with pre-existing conditions and the dropping of sick people). If state regulators had not been captured by the firms they regulate, there would be no debate on reform because reform would not be needed, Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill@...>Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:21 AM What every happens to the economy is going to affect us all. What is going on now is changing to our economy. Time will tell if the changes are good or bad. But past history has showed that Government run economys are not a good thing. We seen to be heading for a Government run economy. All this money that the Government is giving out is really worthless paper.. People are still loosing jobs faster then new jobs being added. Still looseing there homes, cars, credit cards and other things. We are being told we are having a jobless recovery. It is nice to know that the cost of living didn't go up last year so no raise is Gov. programs like SS. Of course the whole cost of living thing is a joke as it doesn't include the the cost of food or energy. I just wounder if there has been and time in the past if cost of living didn't go up. Until we know what was happned to our economy I don't think we can know how to plan health care costs. If there less jobs then there is going to less money from employers to fund health care. With less jobs tere will be less tax money to fund Gov. health care. > > > From: Valarie <val@...>> Subject: RE: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choice> hyperaldosteronism> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM> > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: > > a.. When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. > b.. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. > c.. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden!> http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > > Val> > > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner> > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free).> > Bindner> > > ,_._,___> > > > > > __________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> http://www.eset. com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The question is whether the price of insurance reflects just the cost of health care, or if there is a bit more profit extraction going on than companies are willing to admit. BTW, the government is not taking over health care and tax support for buying insurance has been going on for a long, long time. Price supports for poorer Americans are being added and insurance companies are to be more heavily regulated federally (since state regulation, which will also still exist, has failed to deal with pre-existing conditions and the dropping of sick people). If state regulators had not been captured by the firms they regulate, there would be no debate on reform because reform would not be needed, Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill@...>Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:21 AM What every happens to the economy is going to affect us all. What is going on now is changing to our economy. Time will tell if the changes are good or bad. But past history has showed that Government run economys are not a good thing. We seen to be heading for a Government run economy. All this money that the Government is giving out is really worthless paper.. People are still loosing jobs faster then new jobs being added. Still looseing there homes, cars, credit cards and other things. We are being told we are having a jobless recovery. It is nice to know that the cost of living didn't go up last year so no raise is Gov. programs like SS. Of course the whole cost of living thing is a joke as it doesn't include the the cost of food or energy. I just wounder if there has been and time in the past if cost of living didn't go up. Until we know what was happned to our economy I don't think we can know how to plan health care costs. If there less jobs then there is going to less money from employers to fund health care. With less jobs tere will be less tax money to fund Gov. health care. > > > From: Valarie <val@...>> Subject: RE: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choice> hyperaldosteronism> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM> > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: > > a.. When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. > b.. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. > c.. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden!> http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > > Val> > > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner> > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free).> > Bindner> > > ,_._,___> > > > > > __________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> http://www.eset. com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm always a little leery of the National Center for Policy Analysis. They are fairly partisan. I know their prior director. They fired him when he slammed Bush as not a true conservative. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social Security and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 That depends on how you define "us". 40% pay not federal taxes and have their payroll taxes refunded. The top 1% pay more of a share of their taxes in income and carry much of the federal tax load and might actually pay more than half their income on taxes, especially when local property taxes are included in the calculation. However, I don't believe these folks are suffering too badly. I am almost certain that none of these folks are on this list. If any of you are, there are a few of your list mates who need an AVS paid for if you could lend a hand. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill@...>Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662> >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Seems to me state regulation adds 50 new administrative cost groups that must be paid. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 01:16PM, " Bindner" <mikeybdc@...> wrote: > The question is whether the price of insurance reflects just the cost of health care, or if there is a bit more profit extraction going on than companies are willing to admit. BTW, the government is not taking over health care and tax support for buying insurance has been going on for a long, long time. Price supports for poorer Americans are being added and insurance companies are to be more heavily regulated federally (since state regulation, which will also still exist, has failed to deal with pre-existing conditions and the dropping of sick people). If state regulators had not been captured by the firms they regulate, there would be no debate on reform because reform would not be needed, Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill >Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:21 AM What every happens to the economy is going to affect us all. What is going on now is changing to our economy. Time will tell if the changes are good or bad. But past history has showed that Government run economys are not a good thing. We seen to be heading for a Government run economy. All this money that the Government is giving out is really worthless paper.. People are still loosing jobs faster then new jobs being added. Still looseing there homes, cars, credit cards and other things. We are being told we are having a jobless recovery. It is nice to know that the cost of living didn't go up last year so no raise is Gov. programs like SS. Of course the whole cost of living thing is a joke as it doesn't include the the cost of food or energy. I just wounder if there has been and time in the past if cost of living didn't go up. Until we know what was happned to our economy I don't think we can know how to plan health care costs. If there less jobs then there is going to less money from employers to fund health care. With less jobs tere will be less tax money to fund Gov. health care. > > > From: Valarie <val@...>> Subject: RE: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choice> hyperaldosteronism > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM> > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: > > a.. When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. > b.. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. > c.. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden!> http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > > Val> > > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner> > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free).> > Bindner> > > ,_._,___> > > > > > __________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> http://www.eset. com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Seems to me state regulation adds 50 new administrative cost groups that must be paid. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 01:16PM, " Bindner" <mikeybdc@...> wrote: > The question is whether the price of insurance reflects just the cost of health care, or if there is a bit more profit extraction going on than companies are willing to admit. BTW, the government is not taking over health care and tax support for buying insurance has been going on for a long, long time. Price supports for poorer Americans are being added and insurance companies are to be more heavily regulated federally (since state regulation, which will also still exist, has failed to deal with pre-existing conditions and the dropping of sick people). If state regulators had not been captured by the firms they regulate, there would be no debate on reform because reform would not be needed, Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill >Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:21 AM What every happens to the economy is going to affect us all. What is going on now is changing to our economy. Time will tell if the changes are good or bad. But past history has showed that Government run economys are not a good thing. We seen to be heading for a Government run economy. All this money that the Government is giving out is really worthless paper.. People are still loosing jobs faster then new jobs being added. Still looseing there homes, cars, credit cards and other things. We are being told we are having a jobless recovery. It is nice to know that the cost of living didn't go up last year so no raise is Gov. programs like SS. Of course the whole cost of living thing is a joke as it doesn't include the the cost of food or energy. I just wounder if there has been and time in the past if cost of living didn't go up. Until we know what was happned to our economy I don't think we can know how to plan health care costs. If there less jobs then there is going to less money from employers to fund health care. With less jobs tere will be less tax money to fund Gov. health care. > > > From: Valarie <val@...>> Subject: RE: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choice> hyperaldosteronism > Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 9:45 PM> > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> > > > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. > > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social SeÂcurity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: > > a.. When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. > b.. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. > c.. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden!> http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > > Val> > > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner> > > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free).> > Bindner> > > ,_._,___> > > > > > __________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.> http://www.eset. com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Any group with strong religious underpinning should be suspect. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 01:18PM, " Bindner" <mikeybdc@...> wrote: > I'm always a little leery of the National Center for Policy Analysis. They are fairly partisan. I know their prior director. They fired him when he slammed Bush as not a true conservative. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture: The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and premiums. Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax on wages funds Social Security and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise to meet unfunded obligations: When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third greater than today's rate. When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will earn that year. If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice the size of today's payroll tax burden! http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Bindner You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). Bindner ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 What is a fair share of taxes for the rich or very rich? Perhaps a flat one? Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 01:28PM, "a Hall" <shahall@...> wrote: > I'm sure not one of them and I wish I could help others who need it. I'll never be convinced that only the rich and politicians are worthy of the best health care available. a From: Francis Bill <georgewbill >Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Actually, most in congress use an inhouse clinic, which was upgraded after they insisted that DC General be closed (which was a few minutes away) and a gunman entered and started a gunfight. Before that incident, the Senate Health clinic was like a doctor's office (I once got sudafed there when I was an intern). Beyond the new ER like facility, members use the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program, which served as the model for the insurance exchange (or public option) in the bill. When I was a Fed, I had this plan. It's not bad, but its hardly Cadillac care. I actually favor the employer in-house care model, with doctors on staff, as well as a sick child (and well child) on-site daycare. Then you would not have to worry about taking off to get care for the kid. Combine this with hospital based HMOs where your employer pays a fixed fee each month to your local provider so you can get care and you have enacted the most cost effective health care possible - of course it totally eases the health insurance companies out of the picture, so it will never be enacted by the current regime. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill>Subject: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronismDate: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662> >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 If you mean a tax with no deductions, a flat tax is a good idea. If you mean that the rich and poor pay the same rate, bad idea - at least while the rich collect interest on the debt on the other end and can own companies which pay employees in a less than free labor market (with more potential employees than jobs available). Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: Francis Bill <georgewbill>Subject: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronismDate: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 It's estimated to be $9600 for HC cost for a person making 80,000. Regards Re: Doc choice It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > At least they won't rAke it all > > Tiped sad Send form mi > iPhone ;-) > > May your pressure be low! > > CE Grim MD > Specializing in Difficult > Hypertension > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Ouch, don't think I want to go there. The first problem is defining "rich". Ask a person making $25K per year and you'll get a very different answer than from a person making $500K per year. Then you have McCain's definition of rich - $5 mil per year. And at what point do you exempt people from having to pay? The amount deemed poverty level in this country is a joke. A person making over $10K is not living in poverty? The average rent for a one bedroom apartment around here is at least $600/mo. There are still the same pros and cons for a flat tax as for an income tax. It would be easy and sounds fair but middle and lower incomes, who can afford it the least, would still pay proportionately more of their income than the rich. Who is it going to be hurt more and is it equitable? There's just not going to be an easy solution to this. a From: Francis Bill <georgewbill>Subject: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronismDate: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I would suggest we also need Nationwide Medical Lic as that way I could help folks and get paid for it on the internet.The state lic is a joke.On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Bindner wrote:Actually, most in congress use an inhouse clinic, which was upgraded after they insisted that DC General be closed (which was a few minutes away) and a gunman entered and started a gunfight. Before that incident, the Senate Health clinic was like a doctor's office (I once got sudafed there when I was an intern). Beyond the new ER like facility, members use the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program, which served as the model for the insurance exchange (or public option) in the bill. When I was a Fed, I had this plan. It's not bad, but its hardly Cadillac care. I actually favor the employer in-house care model, with doctors on staff, as well as a sick child (and well child) on-site daycare. Then you would not have to worry about taking off to get care for the kid. Combine this with hospital based HMOs where your employer pays a fixed fee each month to your local provider so you can get care and you have enacted the most cost effective health care possible - of course it totally eases the health insurance companies out of the picture, so it will never be enacted by the current regime. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs):http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.htmlhttp://mikeybdc.blogspot.com --- On Wed, 11/11/09, a Hall <shahall > wrote:From: a Hall <shahall >Subject: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:28 PM I'm sure not one of them and I wish I could help others who need it. I'll never be convinced that only the rich and politicians are worthy of the best health care available. aFrom: Francis Bill <georgewbill>Subject: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronismDate: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662> >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 No deductions seems more reasonable. On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Bindner wrote:If you mean a tax with no deductions, a flat tax is a good idea. If you mean that the rich and poor pay the same rate, bad idea - at least while the rich collect interest on the debt on the other end and can own companies which pay employees in a less than free labor market (with more potential employees than jobs available). Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs):http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.htmlhttp://mikeybdc.blogspot.com --- On Wed, 11/11/09, lowerbp2 <lowerbp2mac> wrote:From: lowerbp2 <lowerbp2mac>Subject: Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronism Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:31 PM What is a fair share of taxes for the rich or very rich? Perhaps a flat one? Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, November 11, 2009, at 01:28PM, "a Hall" <shahall (DOT) com> wrote: > I'm sure not one of them and I wish I could help others who need it. I'll never be convinced that only the rich and politicians are worthy of the best health care available. aFrom: Francis Bill <georgewbill>Subject: [hyperaldosteronism ] Re: Doc choicehyperaldosteronismDate: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 11:07 AM It wont be long before taxes take up most of our money > > > "Unfunded liability" means the liability remaining after considering > > offsetting revenues. This is a dismal picture:> >> >> >> > The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that > > have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be > > collected in dedicated taxes and premiums.> >> > Future Payroll Tax Burdens. Currently, a 12.4 percent payroll tax > > on wages funds Social Se curity and a 2.9 percent payroll tax funds > > Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance). But if payroll tax rates rise > > to meet unfunded obligations:> >> > When today's college students reach retirement (about 2054), Social > > Security alone will require a 16.6 percent payroll tax, one-third > > greater than today's rate.> > When Medicare Part A is included, the payroll tax burden will rise > > to 25.7 percent - more than one of every four dollars workers will > > earn that year.> > If Medicare Part B (physician services) and Part D are included, the > > total Social Security/Medicare burden will climb to 37 percent of > > payroll by 2054 - one in three dollars of taxable payroll, and twice > > the size of today's payroll tax burden!> > http://www.ncpa. org/pub/ba662 > >> > Val> >> >> >> > From: hyperaldosteronism > > [mailto:hyperaldosteronism] On Behalf Of > > Bindner> >> >> > You cannot stress the unfunded liabilities without also counting the > > anticipated funding. The liability is only unfunded if you > > cancelled all tax support today or if society became totally > > automated so that no one need work (of course, if you did this, the > > unfunded liability would be meaningless, since health care would be > > free).> >> > Bindner> >> > ,_._,___> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 if Pelosicare becomes law, we will only be able to buy insurance through the government exchange. If that is not a government takeover, I do not know what is. There will be levels of coverage and levels of premiums. All policies will be required to provide the same thing. Gone will be Health Savings Accounts. Already half of all health care dollars are spent by governments. How much is enough? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner The question is whether the price of insurance reflects just the cost of health care, or if there is a bit more profit extraction going on than companies are willing to admit. BTW, the government is not taking over health care and tax support for buying insurance has been going on for a long, long time. Price supports for poorer Americans are being added and insurance companies are to be more heavily regulated federally (since state regulation, which will also still exist, has failed to deal with pre-existing conditions and the dropping of sick people). If state regulators had not been captured by the firms they regulate, there would be no debate on reform because reform would not be needed, liability would be meaningless, since health care would be free). > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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