Re: Doc choice

[Guest guest]

You may be a little leery, but it is a non-profit and part

of the Combined Federal Campaign.  I

don't believe they can lie.  Instead of

discounting NCPA, I'd rather you examine the data and analyze its quality.  Simply because the data comes from NCPA

doesn't make it wrong.

Here's another important link:

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/BA649

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Bindner

I'm

always a little leery of the National Center for Policy Analysis. They

are fairly partisan. I know their prior director. They fired him

when he slammed Bush as not a true conservative.

[Guest guest]

I had an HMO where Pacificare

paid a set amount per enrollee per month to my doctor group. Anything that was left over at the end

of the month was divided among the participating groups. If they could keep you out of the

hospital, they saved money. They

had everyone in " medical homes " and you were not allowed to go

outside that area. They called them

" pods. " I fought for five

months and through five PCPs to get a parathyroid adenoma removed. Never again will I get near an HMO.

At the time, my husband was CFO

for the school district. Through

his leadership, Pacificare lost the 3,500-member contract. By far, I was not the only one

complaining. Everyone hated

Pacificare.

Val

Combine

this with hospital based HMOs where your employer pays a fixed fee each month

to your local provider so you can get care and you have enacted the most cost

effective health care possible - of course it totally eases the health

insurance companies out of the picture, so it will never be enacted by the

current regime.

[Guest guest]

I don't understand how it is " more fair " to punish

those who happen to make more money than the next guy. Everyone should pay the same rate after

a set allowance for living. If

everyone had to pay at least a little, they wouldn't be so eager to vote for

every new tax-intense program.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

No deductions seems more reasonable.

On

Nov 11, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Bindner wrote:

If you mean a tax with no deductions, a flat tax is a good

idea. If you mean that the rich and poor pay the same rate, bad idea -

at least while the rich collect interest on the debt on the other end and can

own companies which pay employees in a less than free labor market

(with more potential employees than jobs available).

Bindner

..

[Guest guest]

I would love to see a free market across state lines for both

physicians and insurance companies.

I belong to a forum owned by a retired prof of urogyn at UCLA. I pay a yearly fee for it. While she doesn't prescribe or diagnose

per se, her information has been invaluable. I can always go get tests on my own at

LabCorp. It was her information

that brought me to this group. She

picked up on the PA immediately.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ]

On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

My guess is that I could manage most HTN over the web esp if

I use my webcam and could order lab tests.

[Guest guest]

Econ 101 - you can't tax people with no money.

The rich will hafta pay for it regardless, one way or another.

The other is accumulating more money than needed and it ends up in a

treasury account paying no interest.

Another way is inflation. There are other ways.

Regards

Re: Doc choice

hyperaldosteronism

Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:31 PM

What is a fair share of taxes for the rich or very rich? Perhaps a flat

one?

Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD

Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces

on high blood pressure in population's today.

[Guest guest]

Enron's accountants were not non-profit organizations and were

not part of the Combined Federal Campaign. 

If you have a problem with NCPA, critique its data, its studies.  To smear an organization without reason is

irrational.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright



Wait, I can't let that pass.

That's what we thought about enron's

certified accountants.

----- Original Message -----

From: Valarie

You

may be a little leery, but it is a non-profit and part of the Combined Federal

Campaign. I don't believe they can lie.

[Guest guest]

Medicare is absolutely a take-over. Those over 65 have zero choice. My friend with ovarian cancer can get a

certain drug but her Medicare sisters cannot. She is 6.5 years out from diagnosis so

her treatment has had value for her and her family.

Thankfully, I doubt we ever see Pelosicare as law. I would like them to get rid of all that

fraud and abuse, and at least put Medicare on a firm financial foundation before

they embark on another social program.

In fact, I'd like to see Medicare opened up to the free market.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

Well I 've heard differently, but

the bill's not passed yet.

Isn't Medicare a " gov't

takeover " ?

I have difficulty with these

adjectives.

The gov't has " taken over "

and been responsible for a very long time for many things.

[Guest guest]

I call it out of business.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

I called it Pa c if I care.

----- Original Message -----

From: Valarie

I had an HMO where

Pacificare paid a set amount per enrollee per month to my doctor group.

[Guest guest]

No such thing in this country. YOU have not had the benefit of your small contribution.

It's mostly deficit spending and it has been and will be for time to come.

We print the dollar used in this country.

The gov't will NEVER run out of one's and zeroes in an account. It will be replaced with one's and zeroes from treasury accounts.

And the people who insist on getting more than their fair share will end up with their money in those accounts. Or they will lose it on stocks and those sellers will put it there. There's only so much gold, and that price will rise to no avail.

The only thing to do is progress - it always has been and the money can be directed to health care as well as war.

The NICE thing about healthcare is there IS NO upper limit to spending. that means the gov't for once has a chance to go on forever.

just because you and I must manage our checkbooks means nothing. The gov't does not have to do that.

Geo Bush said "WE can't afford it."

What did he mean "WE". He had his health care, now it's our turn to get ours. For everyone.

The HEW is dedicated to providing for everyone, and they don't get the money from Medicare, so why the big discussion of Medicare?

Medicare will run out of money and it will still have to be funded - moved into HEW or else total economic collapse. It is simply silly to want that.

You run a business and you get cash, and then you take credit cards and sooner or later you're offering your own credit to get customers to buy. YOU'RE

running on THEIR Money - their promise to pay.

Econ 102 - if you want me to buy YOUR cars you must lend me YOUR money.

Econ 103 - If you want me to PAY for it you must give me a job.

if you don't YOU are OUT of business.

If GM or Chrysler won't sell you a car go see Honda, Nissan, or Kia.

HC is our new economy.

You and I will see 100 T deficits, if we're lucky.

Regards

RE: Doc choice

And sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

Econ 101 - you can't tax people with no money.The rich will hafta pay for it regardless, one way or another.The other is accumulating more money than needed and it ends up in atreasury account paying no interest.Another way is inflation. There are other ways.Regards

[Guest guest]



Wait, I can't let that pass.

That's what we thought about enron's certified accountants.

RE: Re: Doc choice

You may be a little leery, but it is a non-profit and part of the Combined Federal Campaign. I don't believe they can lie.

[Guest guest]

No u can pay for anything u need if MC DOES not provide it. One of the advantages is that they tend to pay for only what has been proven to work and I hope thia LTiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Nov 11, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Valarie <val@...> wrote:

Medicare is absolutely a take-over. Those over 65 have zero choice. My friend with ovarian cancer can get a

certain drug but her Medicare sisters cannot. She is 6.5 years out from diagnosis so

her treatment has had value for her and her family.

Thankfully, I doubt we ever see Pelosicare as law. I would like them to get rid of all that

fraud and abuse, and at least put Medicare on a firm financial foundation before

they embark on another social program.

In fact, I'd like to see Medicare opened up to the free market.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

Well I 've heard differently, but

the bill's not passed yet.

Isn't Medicare a "gov't

takeover"?

I have difficulty with these

adjectives.

The gov't has "taken over"

and been responsible for a very long time for many things.

[Guest guest]

So MC should only pAy for things that work. The way it is now it pays for many things thAt have not been properly tested ESP true for those who market things radiation coAted stents. Hopefully this will change. Tiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Nov 11, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Valarie <val@...> wrote:

Medicare is absolutely a take-over. Those over 65 have zero choice. My friend with ovarian cancer can get a

certain drug but her Medicare sisters cannot. She is 6.5 years out from diagnosis so

her treatment has had value for her and her family.

Thankfully, I doubt we ever see Pelosicare as law. I would like them to get rid of all that

fraud and abuse, and at least put Medicare on a firm financial foundation before

they embark on another social program.

In fact, I'd like to see Medicare opened up to the free market.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

Well I 've heard differently, but

the bill's not passed yet.

Isn't Medicare a "gov't

takeover"?

I have difficulty with these

adjectives.

The gov't has "taken over"

and been responsible for a very long time for many things.

[Guest guest]

Can u send me the link. Sounds like a way to generate some income so I can pay more tAxesTiped sad Send form miiPhone ;-)May your pressure be low!CE Grim MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Nov 11, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Valarie <val@...> wrote:

I would love to see a free market across state lines for both

physicians and insurance companies.

I belong to a forum owned by a retired prof of urogyn at UCLA. I pay a yearly fee for it. While she doesn't prescribe or diagnose

per se, her information has been invaluable. I can always go get tests on my own at

LabCorp. It was her information

that brought me to this group. She

picked up on the PA immediately.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ]

On Behalf Of Clarence Grim

My guess is that I could manage most HTN over the web esp if

I use my webcam and could order lab tests.

[Guest guest]

My information is that Section 202 will require a change if the

plan is not a " qualified plan. "

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner

Actually, if you get health care through your employer,

that won't change. HSAs could be a good part of the system, although

they need some of the features of flexible spending - and there must be a

non-exclusion provision so that insurers cannot deny or revoke a high

deductible policy. Without the ability to access your entire year

entitlement in the HSA you simply require medical providers to wait until the

HSA balance builds before they get paid - and if some costs are excluded by

pre-existing condition clause the HSA will never be enough to pay bills and

avoid bankruptcy.

Bindner

[Guest guest]

What???   I send her $xxx

a year and she answers any questions I have and gives me ideas of where to go

next.  That is about as free as I can

get.  No insurance company involved, no

social security number involved.  The

government is not involved nor is my insurance company.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner

Paying a yearly fee for a doctor, rather than a fee for

service, is an HMO by any other name.

Bindner

,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Sales tax is regressive.  Lower incomes pay a larger % of their incomes

than higher incomes.  That is regressive.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Bindner

A

sales tax is only the fairest if there is also an income tax as long as

the government pays interest on a national debt.

---

On Wed, 11/11/09, Francis Bill <georgewbill@...>

wrote:

From: Francis Bill <georgewbill@...>

The

fairest tax is a sales tax. Can exempt any amount on any thing this way poor

can pay less tax then rich.

[Guest guest]

The profit motive is not negative.  It is responsible for miraculous discoveries

and businesses that would not have existed without it.  It creates efficiencies that do not exist

without that motive.  Of course

Pacificare was an insurance company seeking a profit.  It was not long before it disappeared,

though, because people managed to have a choice.  Just think what life would be like if we have

government insurance that looks like Pacificare.

The average profit in the insurance industry is roughly three

percent.  Is that a problem?  The last margin I saw for Microsoft was 48%.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner

Pacificare

was not the model I was promoting.

I am usually served by andria Hospital. They

should have an HMO for hospitalization and specialist care in their

network. The problem with Pacificare is that it was likely run by an

insurance company seeking profit.

Bindner

From: Valarie <val@...>

I had an HMO where Pacificare paid a set

amount per enrollee per month to my doctor group. Anything that was

left over at the end of the month was divided among the participating

groups.

..

[Guest guest]

I should have said that they

cannot get the drug on Medicare while my friend can get the drug through her

insurance.  Problem is, since they are

over 65, they have no choice in insurance companies.  I would say that ovarian cancer is

representative of a catastrophic illness that requires insurance.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Clarence Grim

No u

can pay for anything u need if MC DOES not provide it.

One

of the advantages is that they tend to pay for only what has been proven to

work and I hope thia

On

Nov 11, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Valarie <val@...>

wrote:

Medicare is absolutely a

take-over. Those over 65 have zero choice. My friend with ovarian

cancer can get a certain drug but her Medicare sisters cannot. She is 6.5

years out from diagnosis so her treatment has had value for her and her

family.

[Guest guest]



The fact is, every thing you invest in you can/will lose money even if you think it's wrong.

I'm am pragmatic.

I know rain when I see it.

Smearing a bill that isn't even passed yet because you think YOU personally will pay for it is irrational.

Denying healthcare to all is a totally irrational fear of something that doesn't exist.

RE: Re: Doc choice

Enron's accountants were not non-profit organizations and were not part of the Combined Federal Campaign. If you have a problem with NCPA, critique its data, its studies. To smear an organization without reason is irrational.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

Wait, I can't let that pass.

That's what we thought about enron's certified accountants.

----- Original Message -----

From: Valarie

You may be a little leery, but it is a non-profit and part of the Combined Federal Campaign. I don't believe they can lie.

__________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

To be precise, they can get any drug for which the Dr. writes a prescription. They might not be able to pay for it.

What you mean is their supplement plan does not cover for it, but mine does, at least they say so, but it's tier 3, 99$ copay.

We have a choice in supplement plans and advantage plans. Some pay more than others.

I have bought several drugs out of plan, because it's simpler and available. And I can buy drugs in Canada if I choose, as long as they are legal drugs.

RE: Re: Doc choice

Medicare is absolutely a take-over. Those over 65 have zero choice. My friend with ovarian cancer can get a certain drug but her Medicare sisters cannot. She is 6.5 years out from diagnosis so her treatment has had value for her and her family.

Thankfully, I doubt we ever see Pelosicare as law. I would like them to get rid of all that fraud and abuse, and at least put Medicare on a firm financial foundation before they embark on another social program. In fact, I'd like to see Medicare opened up to the free market.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of jwwright

Well I 've heard differently, but the bill's not passed yet.

Isn't Medicare a "gov't takeover"?

I have difficulty with these adjectives.

The gov't has "taken over" and been responsible for a very long time for many things.

__________ NOD32 4389 (20090902) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Correct, and I was able to add Actonel, eg, to my supplement plan at a cost

of 99$ copay.

If Walmart has it, it might be 4$. Even some vets use that because it's less

than their 7$ copay.

They encourage you to use a " loer cost " drug, in this example fosamax,

because it's their " generic " .

But the " cost to the plan " is still the item that is controlled.

I went over my " limit " last year so I chose cardura over flomax, to get the

" cost to the plan " within my limit. The limit is based on premiums. Pay

more - get a higher limit.

Without the " gov't takeover " we would be without any insurance because the

" Company " I retired from opted out of paying for insurance for retirees.

Regards

Re: Re: Doc choice

No u can pay for anything u need if MC DOES not provide it.

One of the advantages is that they tend to pay for only what has been proven

to work and I hope thia

L

Tiped sad Send form mi

iPhone ;-)

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim MD

Specializing in Difficult

Hypertension

[Guest guest]

You're double-talking me.  " Profit " is normally expressed as

ROI (return on investment).  I have no

idea what " investor profit " is. 

Health insurance companies' normal ROI is about 3%.  Is that a problem?  Microsoft is about 48%.  Is that a problem?

What would you think if your

government insurance looked like Pacificare?

BTW, enjoyed reading your blog.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner

That's

investor profit. They are using their gross profit to cover portfolio

losses due to the financial collapse.

Bindner

---

On Wed, 11/11/09, Valarie <val@...> wrote:

From: Valarie <val@...>

The profit motive is not

negative. It is responsible for miraculous discoveries and businesses

that would not have existed without it. It creates efficiencies that do

not exist without that motive. Of course Pacificare was an insurance

company seeking a profit. It was not long before it disappeared,

though, because people managed to have a choice. Just think what life

would be like if we have government insurance that looks like Pacificare.

The average profit in the

insurance industry is roughly three percent. Is that a problem?

The last margin I saw for Microsoft was 48%.

[Guest guest]

What happens if you want to

CHOOSE to go somewhere else?

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On

Behalf Of Bindner

If

your local hospital can't handle something, they will send you and pay for

it.

Bindner

From: Valarie <val@...>

What happens when you want to

go to MD , Cleveland Clinic or Mayo Clinic (i.e., choice)?

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldost eronism@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of

Bindner

I actually favor the employer in-house care model, with

doctors on staff, as well as a sick child (and well child) on-site

daycare. Then you would not have to worry about taking off to get

care for the kid. Combine this with hospital based HMOs where your

employer pays a fixed fee each month to your local provider so you can get

care and you have enacted the most cost effective health care possible - of

course it totally eases the health insurance companies out of the picture,

so it will never be enacted by the current regime.

[Guest guest]

I may or may not get government insurance. Right now I have catastrophic/HSA, with my wife's employer financing the HSA.

The HMO I am proposing is not like Pacificare. It is more like the relationship you have with your endo where you pay a fee. That is also considered an HMO type plan.

The ROI for investors is different than the gross profit for the insurance operations, which may be subsidizing other parts of the firm that are not doing so well. This also happened after Katrina with insurance companies. Rates went up even though risk did not.

Bindner

Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs):

http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html

http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com

From: Valarie <val@...>

The profit motive is not negative. It is responsible for miraculous discoveries and businesses that would not have existed without it. It creates efficiencies that do not exist without that motive. Of course Pacificare was an insurance company seeking a profit. It was not long before it disappeared, though, because people managed to have a choice. Just think what life would be like if we have government insurance that looks like Pacificare..

The average profit in the insurance industry is roughly three percent. Is that a problem? The last margin I saw for Microsoft was 48%.

[Guest guest]

This HMO you envision, what happens when you CHOOSE to go

somewhere outside of the " relationship " ?

Your differentiation between ROI and gross profit of a company makes

no sense, .  We weren't talking

about " insurance operations. "  

We were talking about a corporation. 

Typical ROI of insurance companies is about 3%; typical ROI of Microsoft

is 48%.   

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bindner

I

may or may not get government insurance. Right now I have catastrophic/HSA,

with my wife's employer financing the HSA.

The

HMO I am proposing is not like Pacificare. It is more like the

relationship you have with your endo where you pay a fee. That is also

considered an HMO type plan.

The ROI for investors is different than the gross profit

for the insurance operations, which may be subsidizing other parts of the firm

that are not doing so well. This also happened after Katrina with

insurance companies. Rates went up even though risk did not.