Re: portable ozone saunas....safe???

[Guest guest]

i just inspected a sauna tent here and the tent is made from a simple

nylon material and it gives off no smell what so ever we have sold

hundreds of these sauna tents now with no objection what so ever

infact people report that they work just as good as the 2300$ full

size steam chambers its a very simple process steam and the portable

steam tent is a cheap and easy way to do steam sauna at home also the

steamer that comes with the unit works very well we use a infrared

switch on them so you can turn them off when you are inside the

cabinet and back on with out getting out the people who have them

also like the fact you can put bags of herbs in the steamer and make a

herbal steam bath id like to know more about what kind of reaction

the people where having could you tell us more about that??

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I heard that it caused some kind of skin reaction, but I heard it

from someone who heard it from Dr. Pressman who heard it from someone

else, so it might just be a rumour. I don't know any details. I am

just trying to see if there is any reality to this at all. I don't

even know what brand it is. There is a company in Canada that sells

one too. Is that the same one as yours? Its square and brown.

Thanks,

Hyperbaroman

> i just inspected a sauna tent here and the tent is made from a

simple

> nylon material and it gives off no smell what so ever we have

sold

> hundreds of these sauna tents now with no objection what so ever

> infact people report that they work just as good as the 2300$ full

> size steam chambers its a very simple process steam and the

portable

> steam tent is a cheap and easy way to do steam sauna at home also

the

> steamer that comes with the unit works very well we use a infrared

> switch on them so you can turn them off when you are inside the

> cabinet and back on with out getting out the people who have

them

> also like the fact you can put bags of herbs in the steamer and

make a

> herbal steam bath id like to know more about what kind of

reaction

> the people where having could you tell us more about that??

[Guest guest]

our system that we have been using is made by the same company (made

in china) but ours is blue and round it doesnt use the plastic pipes

to hold up the tent its the same steamer i would say but the tent is

different shape and the way it goes together is more simple and easier

to deal with im not sure how a reaction could be happening but

im not going to say that they didnt have problems or reactions i

just know we have had good luck and happy people using the system we

have provided for them hope this helps william

[Guest guest]

Yes, they're safe if you get a hard style. I've had several at our clinic.

We've seen rashes and bad product quality with several of them. The rashes are

primarily with the

vinyl tent-style (PVC when it hits ozone gas I don't think is healthy to

breathe...).

The problem I've had with some of the older fiberglass units was bad seals at

the doors, and

the glue coming apart, and the generator being inside make it rust and

deterioriate.

The new Millenium one Chowen markets through Longevity seems to get good

reviews from a few docs I know.

I know that Den from Ozone Services has marketed some also but I don't have any

of his newer ones...I was buying directly

from their supplier some years back and was disappointed. The old fiberglass

ones had serious problems with

" hot " spots due to the design. 's new design is more concave which helps

eliminate that, I'm told.

The challenge frankly with either one is that they're Canadian companies and

shipping is exhorbinant...find out about return and exchange policies and

only use a credit card for purchasing so you can get a prompt refund if there's

a problem within the

60-day written request period with the credit card vendor. Den with Ozone

Services has always given me excellent service and has

always been very professional indeed to deal with. I appreciate he and Vladka

his wife tremendously.

That's my 2 cents...

Dr.Bormann

hyperbaroman@... wrote:

> I heard somewhere that some people have had bad reactions to the

> fabric in the portable ozone saunas. I heard the ozone and steam can

> react somehow and take up some kind of chemical in the fabric or

> something. Does anyone know if this is true and if so what brand has

> this problem? I'm really chemical sensitive and don't want to get

> poisoned by something that is supposed to be cleansing.

> Hyperbaroman

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

>

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>

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[Guest guest]

" vinyl tent-style (PVC when it hits ozone gas I don't think is

healthy to breathe...). "

the sauna tents are a rip stock nylon material coated with silicon

not pvc or vinyl the older tents did have poles that were made out

of pvc but not the newer ones the newer style have alimanated the

poles so no problem with ozone

[Guest guest]

Dear Fred,

I have had a number of people complain about the terrible

rashes they received from these 'floppy' saunas, especially where they were

in contact with them. I even had one guy from Australia mail me pictures of

the gross lesions around his neck where the nylon touched his skin. Yuck.

Nylon is listed as only moderately resistant to ozone, which means it will

break down over time.

PVC is not resistant to ozone and will break down fairly quickly.

Best of Health!

Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LTOH

From: " Fred Walter " <canadian_fred@...>

Reply-oxyplus

oxyplus

Subject: Re: portable ozone saunas....safe???

Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 00:44:38 -0000

> Yes, they're safe if you get a hard style. I've had several

> at our clinic. We've seen rashes and bad product quality with

> several of them. The rashes are primarily with the vinyl

> tent-style (PVC when it hits ozone gas I don't think is healthy

> to breathe...).

You're saying that ozone eats away at vinyl and PVC,

and you get toxic offgassing?

That something that I didn't want to hear,

because I've been looking at:

http://www.steamworld.com/steam/products/saunatent.htm

which says

:Vinyl coated fabric " tent " with back & front access zippers and

:two additional openings for arms (with zippers) - all supported

:by 7/8 " DIM PVC tubular frame.

Anyone with the above portable steam sauna having any problems

when using it with ozone?

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[Guest guest]

no pvc in the new ones and the rip stock nylon is coated with silicon

we have alot of people using them (hundreds) and they seem to work

really well with no problem or complaints the one that steamworld

sells might be the old one with the pvc pipes but the new ones do not

use them for 250$ for a portable sauna or 1800$ for a fiberglass or

vacuum formed one its hard to compare them anyway the 250$ ones get

just as hot and work as good as the more expensive ones we are in

the process of building a sauna cabinet that will sell for half of

what the hard cabinets now are selling for now there no reason why

these should cost 1800 to 2000$$

but i think the ozone aerobic bath is the best treatment by far

: heated ultrapure water injected with oxygen ozone sprayed onto the

body from the neck down now thats a cabinet treatment if you want

to read about it goto http://www.oxygenozone.com any questions

email me direct william o2o3@...

[Guest guest]

" billy ozone " <o2o5@y...> wrote:

> the one that steamworld sells might be the old one with

> the pvc pipes

Yes, they are the ones with PVC pipes.

I sent email to them and asked about the effect of ozone

on the materials in the portable steam sauna.

The response was:

:ozone is bonding with steam (water), and therefore, the rules

:which apply for ozone in a gas form and its reactivity with other

:substances no longer applies on the comparable scale when dealing

:with ozone virtually dissolved in water.

He also points out that ozone is used to treat swimming pool water

in a lot of swimming pools that have vinyl liners.

:1) Assume that the reactions between ozone and vinyl will damage

: the vinyl.

:2) In the case of pools where the exposure between the vinyl and

: ozonated water is 24hours/day, that would mean the severe

: leakage within days or weeks.... and that is not happening.

He has sold a lot of portable sauna units,

with no-one complaining about this to him,

so it sounds like it isn't happening.

> but the new ones do not use them

What do the new ones use in place of the PVC pipes?

> we are in the process of building a sauna cabinet that will

> sell for half of what the hard cabinets now are selling for now

> there no reason why these should cost 1800 to 2000$$

Why not build the ozone sauna cabinet out of cedar,

like they do with normal sauna?

Will the ozone damage the wood?

> but i think the ozone aerobic bath is the best treatment by far

> heated ultrapure water injected with oxygen ozone sprayed onto the

> body from the neck down now thats a cabinet treatment

Yes, but it sounds like it costs a heck of a lot more...

[Guest guest]

the new ones use " a board inbetween the coated rip stock nylon " hold

it straight up around and uses stainless steel wire (we seal them

before sending out) to form the shape around very easy and simple

very effective and safe sure you can build one out of cedar no

reason why not

yes the ozone aerobic bath does cost more but the parts used in

building it cost more too but when you are showering yourself with

heated ultrapure water injected with oxygen ozone you have a

completly different animal to steam and oxygen and ozone

http://www.oxygenozone.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Fred,

Ozone will draw the oils out of the cedar and they will end

up deposited in your body. Don't do it. We saw this back in 1994

with the cedar foot rests and seats on the saunas we used to buy.

It is well known that ozone degrades nylon over time. The nylon

nut that we use to attach our Teflon fitting to the Saunazone

steam sauna is always attached on the OUTSIDE of the cabinet, so

that it will not be exposed to ozone. If it were inside, it

would get brittle and eventually break off.

Even when we used $35 frying pans as heaters (1995-1996), the

completed cabinets cost us over $1000 each to produce. Some of

those saunas have had 5000 people in them.

Now we use stainless steel tanks with submersible elements and

digital controls. They cost nearly $1700 to make. So billy ozone

is blowing smoke. Quality costs money. There is no magic shortcut.

You get what you pay for.

Best of Health!

Dr. Saul Pressman, DCh, LTOH

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Reply-oxyplus

oxyplus

Subject: Re: portable ozone saunas....safe???

Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:29:04 -0000

" billy ozone " <o2o5@y...> wrote:

> the one that steamworld sells might be the old one with

> the pvc pipes

Yes, they are the ones with PVC pipes.

I sent email to them and asked about the effect of ozone

on the materials in the portable steam sauna.

The response was:

:ozone is bonding with steam (water), and therefore, the rules

:which apply for ozone in a gas form and its reactivity with other

:substances no longer applies on the comparable scale when dealing

:with ozone virtually dissolved in water.

He also points out that ozone is used to treat swimming pool water

in a lot of swimming pools that have vinyl liners.

:1) Assume that the reactions between ozone and vinyl will damage

: the vinyl.

:2) In the case of pools where the exposure between the vinyl and

: ozonated water is 24hours/day, that would mean the severe

: leakage within days or weeks.... and that is not happening.

He has sold a lot of portable sauna units,

with no-one complaining about this to him,

so it sounds like it isn't happening.

> but the new ones do not use them

What do the new ones use in place of the PVC pipes?

> we are in the process of building a sauna cabinet that will

> sell for half of what the hard cabinets now are selling for now

> there no reason why these should cost 1800 to 2000$$

Why not build the ozone sauna cabinet out of cedar,

like they do with normal sauna?

Will the ozone damage the wood?

> but i think the ozone aerobic bath is the best treatment by far

> heated ultrapure water injected with oxygen ozone sprayed onto the

> body from the neck down now thats a cabinet treatment

Yes, but it sounds like it costs a heck of a lot more...

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

> Even when we used $35 frying pans as heaters (1995-1996), the

> completed cabinets cost us over $1000 each to produce. Some of

> those saunas have had 5000 people in them.

>

> Now we use stainless steel tanks with submersible elements and

> digital controls. They cost nearly $1700 to make. So billy ozone

> is blowing smoke. Quality costs money. There is no magic shortcut.

> You get what you pay for.

Someone buying a portable sauna for personal use doesn't need

the extra quality that would allow thousands of people to use it.

I'm not concerned about the portable sauna materials breaking

down eventually, I just don't want to do anything that might

make me sick. Since I'm not going to buy a non-portable unit

(no chance, no how, no way, because they just cost too much),

my concern is that if these materials degrade,

will I be adversely affected?

Den from Ozone Services has said that this isn't a problem.

Dr. Borman has posted that there might be a health risk.

But Dr. Borman has an obvious bias against people treating

themselves at home, and has said other things on this mailing-list

that were incorrect.

So...

The people who are selling them say that they are safe.

The people who aren't selling them, but have a financial interest

in them not being sold, say that they aren't safe.

Who is a guy to believe?

[Guest guest]

where do you live fred? im in southern california i have nothing to

hide here im not in this stuff to make a fast buck its only to help

people and do the right thing i make my money in other areas i

would send you one to check it out and you can tell everyone here

what you have found out with it spreading scare messages and lies

isnt how we should live its about helping each other also what a

stupid statement blowing smoke?? god help us

[Guest guest]

At 08:31 PM 09/03/2001 +0000, you wrote:

>The people who aren't selling them, but have a financial interest

>in them not being sold, say that they aren't safe.

>

>Who is a guy to believe?

Simple question....Saul Pressman of course....

[Guest guest]

" billy ozone " <o2o5@y...> wrote:

> where do you live fred? im in southern california

I'm in Ontario, Canada. I'm reluctant to give more of my address

in public because, believe it or not, I've had a quackbuster

contact my workplace about some of my alternative health websites.

(And I don't sell anything! Just the fact that I was talking

about various things that I've looked at put a bug up his butt.)

> i would send you one to check it out

Thanx for the offer. I don't have any testing equipment here,

all I'd be able to do is say whether or not I smell anything

offgasing.

I'll send you my email address offlist.

[Guest guest]

Fred,

Speaking as a list member, NOT as moderator, I share your concern about

safety. I have one of Plasmafire's new saunas, but I will be travelling

a lot in the next year, and also, some people can't come to me. I'm not

strong enough to cart my saunazone around, but the generator is light,

and if a nylon tent were relatively safe, I am indeed interested also.

I don't see the issue of being able to withstand thousands of uses to be

the relevant issue, just the safety. And, almost everyone on this list

has at one time or another said something someone else thought was

wrong. That is part of what this list is about: That we get to hear all

those viewpoints, and make up our own minds!

Regardless what Dr. Bormann may have said with which you disagree, she

uses ozone in her practice, and sells equipment on her website that

looks a lot like Ozone Den's to me. So, I don't think she against home

treatment per se. If that were so, why is she always giving people her

advice on how to do so. No, I believe her concern over this safety issue

is a genuine one.

When I first joined the now-defunct oxylist there were several safety

issues that were debated between Den, of Ozone Den, and Saul Pressman. I

watched these discussions for almost a year. In every case Saul Pressman

convinced me he was right, by virtue of the information he presents. The

oxylist archives are, I believe, still available. Go read for yourself,

and you will discover every possible issue relating to oxidative

therapies. Saul Pressman's experience & intellect may just win you over

also.

And, if you read the archives of the oxylist and oxyplus you will

discover he has given all kinds of freebies to people who couldn't

afford them. This is not the behavior of a man who will tell you

something just to sell a product. He is also the only vendor of ozone

equipment I have seen on this list recommend anybody else's ozone

products -- at all.

Quite a few people on this list admire Saul, not just for his

participation on this list, but as much for the manner in which he has

done it for the past 3 years! I have been accused of being his shill

because I frequently speak highly of him. But, the plain, unvarnished

truth is that I simply admire Saul Pressman because he does good things

for people in an exemplary manner and I find him admirable.

And, sure, it is easy for him, manufacturing the quality equipment he

does, to point out flaws in other systems/products. The best another

product can do is be as good, since his products are top quality. But,

my opinion of him as a man is that he will not sell his soul for some

petty fib for commercial purposes. Ethics are obvious, and Saul has

them. So, in general, I tend to trust Saul's opinions in re ozone, not

only because he is a manufacturer, but more, because of all the many

doctors in the world who consult with him about individual cases, which

is an AMAZING informational resource!

ozone is relatively new to the list, but he is a valuable

contributor already, and I hope he continues to participate here,

because, as you say, not everyone can/will spend the price for top

quality. 's ozone shower sounds pretty neat to me, and he says that

is expensive also, citing the cost of the materials & equipment. It

sounds like he has something going on there! That he also sells

lower-priced sauna tents in no way reflects negatively on his ethics. I

am sure he BELIEVES they are safe! And, I hope he is correct, because I

want one!

Den has never openly participated on this list, to my knowledge. On a

coiuple of occasions his supporters have gotten into discussions, but

they didn't stay around. But, I am sure he believes what he says also!

What it all comes down to, IMO, is that well-meaning people can

disagree, because they have different beliefs -- DUH! They are different

people! So, there is no sea-change here with disagreement over the

safety of tent saunas. But, since these different opinions exist, YOU

have to sort it out. No one here is an AUTHORITY whose opinion is a

definitive answer, short of the person making their own health care

decisions & spending their own money.

And, if I get one of 's nylon tents I'll be able to tell you if it

can make a rash worse, because after 18 months using ozone, I have a

darned good idea exactly what rash I'm gonna get. If it's different,

which none of them have been, I'll know it! What REALLY ticks ME off, if

you want to know, is that my 82 year-old mom's rashes are clearing up

faster than mine, and this was my idea, not hers! ;-))

jim

Fred Walter wrote:

>

> Someone buying a portable sauna for personal use doesn't need

> the extra quality that would allow thousands of people to use it.

>

> I'm not concerned about the portable sauna materials breaking

> down eventually, I just don't want to do anything that might

> make me sick. Since I'm not going to buy a non-portable unit

> (no chance, no how, no way, because they just cost too much),

> my concern is that if these materials degrade,

> will I be adversely affected?

>

> Den from Ozone Services has said that this isn't a problem.

>

> Dr. Borman has posted that there might be a health risk.

> But Dr. Borman has an obvious bias against people treating

> themselves at home, and has said other things on this mailing-list

> that were incorrect.

>

> So...

>

> The people who are selling them say that they are safe.

>

> The people who aren't selling them, but have a financial interest

> in them not being sold, say that they aren't safe.

>

> Who is a guy to believe?

>

-----

The TRUTH in 11 words:

Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened!

-- anon

jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry

[Guest guest]

Dear Ozoner,

Where does get the best price on a portable ozone sauna. Manson

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I went to your website to have a look at your portable ozone sauna and I am

not sure whether or not you have one on the market. What can you tell me

about it? Does it do the work of non portable types? Manson