Re: question about perfumers alcohol

[Guest guest]

Also if you read the ingredient list on modern perfumes, they all

seem

to have a high wter content...how do they do that? water and alcohol

don't mix (at least my experiments always went cloudy and the oils

then swam on top).Do manufacturers include some kind of solubizer?

Ambrosia

Water and alcohol do mix, but the ability of alcohol to dissolve

essential oils decreases when water concentration in solution

increases (that for 95% alcohol dissolves more essential oils than

80%). When you added water to your mixture and it went cloudy that

was because you lowered the concentration of alcohol and some of the

oil reappeared. If you need to add water; proceed slowly, add it

drop by drop. When you feel the mixture is going cloudy, add a bit

of alcohol, it will go clear again and then your mixture will be

pretty well dosed. Water is added for 3 major purposes:

1-Ethanol has a faint unpleasant scent of it own when you add water

that scent will disappear.

2-Water regulates the evaporation of the mixture.

3- Water gives an extra costless gain in the overall quantity.

Modern perfumes in most are synthetics and they use in addition to

alcohol some synthetic solvents as: Dipropylen glycol, triethyl

citrate, diethyl phthalate, benzyl benzoate…This because some of the

material they use is insoluble in alcohol.

Antonin

[Guest guest]

> Water and alcohol do mix, but the ability of alcohol to dissolve

> essential oils decreases when water concentration in solution

> increases (that for 95% alcohol dissolves more essential oils than

> 80%). When you added water to your mixture and it went cloudy that

> was because you lowered the concentration of alcohol and some of the

> oil reappeared. If you need to add water; proceed slowly, add it

> drop by drop. When you feel the mixture is going cloudy, add a bit

> of alcohol, it will go clear again and then your mixture will be

> pretty well dosed

Thanks for this info, I have wondered about the clouding when I tried to add

hydrosol to a

NP blend.

Other questions on alcohol...

How is it best to store Perfumers Alcohol?

After being decanted and exposed to air, what is the deterioration and potency

loss rate.

And how can one deter that.

Any advice on adding hydrosols to NP blends would be great!

Thanks,

Katlyn

[Guest guest]

> When you added water to your mixture and it went cloudy that

> was because you lowered the concentration of alcohol and some of the

> oil reappeared. If you need to add water; proceed slowly, add it

> drop by drop. When you feel the mixture is going cloudy, add a bit

> of alcohol, it will go clear again and then your mixture will be

> pretty well dosed. Water is added for 3 major purposes:

> 1-Ethanol has a faint unpleasant scent of it own when you add water

> that scent will disappear.

> 2-Water regulates the evaporation of the mixture.

> 3- Water gives an extra costless gain in the overall quantity.

> Modern perfumes in most are synthetics and they use in addition to

> alcohol some synthetic solvents as: Dipropylen glycol, triethyl

> citrate, diethyl phthalate, benzyl benzoate…This because some of the

> material they use is insoluble in alcohol.

> Antonin

Thanks Antonin,

This ties up some loose ends for me regarding synthetic perfumes and

also the use of water in natural perfumery. It hadn't really occurred

to me that the evaporation rate would be affected but of course it

would! Brilliant! For those with distillers wanting to work on making

their own alcohol as discussed earlier in this thread, you can also

try a trick called " salting out " . The idea is that once you have

distilled as much of the water out as you can, you can then add sodium

chloride, not sea salt, to the alcohol you have left. ( keep adding it

until it stops dissolving) Salt is soluble in water but not in ethanol

and it will cause the resulting salt water and alcohol to separate

into two distinct layers. Some items in sea salt may be soluble in

alcohol, I don't know. This can be separated in a funnel and the

remaining alcohol distilled again to clean it up. It has been about 20

years since I did that but as I can't get pure grape alcohol in Utah I

am going to try doing it with grape brandy sometime soon.

This leads me to a question for everyone here. Do any of you prefix

your alcohol? And if so what do you use to prefix with and how do you

feel it affects your final product? I usually do prefix my own as I am

left with only Everclear to work with because of State regulations and

it seems to me to add more depth to my perfumes and that they mature

faster. I normally prefix using Civet, Ambergris or Musk and if I

could find Goat Hair tincture I would like to try that as well. I

wonder if anyone has ever tried Costus for this? The funk of the

animal scents seems to sweeten the Everclear and add staying power

even though I can't smell them in the alcohol. It just changes it in

some imperceptible way. I wonder if it is just my perception or if

others have found this effective?

[Guest guest]

> Other questions on alcohol...

>

> How is it best to store Perfumers Alcohol?

>

> After being decanted and exposed to air, what is the deterioration

and potency loss rate.

> And how can one deter that.

>

> Any advice on adding hydrosols to NP blends would be great!

>

> Thanks,

>

> Katlyn

simple: Store it in a well tight caped bottle far away from fire

hazards and sparks remmeber flash point is 9.44 C

Loss after being decanted is minor just dont keep it too long in an

open container, when blending use test tubes to diminish surface

area this reduces loss by evaporation.

70% and greater is a sterile environment no bactery life and no fear

of decay

antonin

[Guest guest]

-

> > Katlyn

> simple: Store it in a well tight caped bottle far away from fire

> hazards and sparks remmeber flash point is 9.44 C

> Loss after being decanted is minor just dont keep it too long in an

> open container, when blending use test tubes to diminish surface

> area this reduces loss by evaporation.

> 70% and greater is a sterile environment no bactery life and no fear

> of decay

> antonin

>

Thank you Antonin,

I appreciate the info. It is as I thought, but you never know when someone might

give you

another helpful piece of the process. It seemed that after a while the alcohol

was getting

weaker breaking down the EO and I wondered if I was doing something wrong, just

the way

of it I guess. I have used a bit of Benzoin in the past to fix the alcohol. I

will try some musk.

Katlyn