Guest guest Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Thanks, Baz. I have a feeling that we would not get a referral to a paed GI through our GP. They would make me get a referral through 's paediatrician. I know the paed will not refer to a GI. But I'm not too concerned as I really don't think has a bowel disease. Can you tell me what routine tests the NHS did? Was it blood or colonoscopy? Thanks for the info. Darla In a message dated 14/11/2006 11:02:10 GMT Standard Time, smotors@... writes: Hi Darla, we also had high lactoferrin from my boys CDSA, in fact Dr H told us that it was the highest he has ever seen. Anyway we went to the GP and got a referral to GI team, they did the usual NHS tests to look for inflammation and results were normal. We did another follow up CDSA and the lactoferrin levels returned to normal. Maybe look at upping the natural anti-inflams alittle.Baz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Hi Darla, we also had high lactoferrin from my boys CDSA, in fact Dr H told us that it was the highest he has ever seen. Anyway we went to the GP and got a referral to GI team, they did the usual NHS tests to look for inflammation and results were normal. We did another follow up CDSA and the lactoferrin levels returned to normal. Maybe look at upping the natural anti-inflams alittle. Baz. > > Just wondering - 's stool tests show VERY high levels of Lactoferrin. > has said that we need to take the test results to 's GP asap. I > have, of course, googled this and I don't understand it. I see on the test that > this is a marker of inflammatory bowel diseases but it doesn't seem to be a > very " mainstream " idea per the google search. Does anyone have experience > with this? > > has been tested through the NHS for coeliac disease and does not have > it. If I take this test to my GP they are going to usher me out the door? > They are already hassling me about the MMR and I'm not keen to take him back in > unless I completely understand what's wrong and what I need to have done for > it. > > Thanks for any links, experience, etc! > Darla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Hi Darla, tests were done using blood- tested for CRP/ESR ( inflam markers) and a full blood count. Baz > > > Thanks, Baz. I have a feeling that we would not get a referral to a paed GI > through our GP. They would make me get a referral through 's > paediatrician. I know the paed will not refer to a GI. But I'm not too concerned > as I really don't think has a bowel disease. > > Can you tell me what routine tests the NHS did? Was it blood or colonoscopy? > > Thanks for the info. > Darla > > In a message dated 14/11/2006 11:02:10 GMT Standard Time, smotors@... > writes: > > Hi Darla, we also had high lactoferrin from my boys CDSA, in fact Dr > H told us that it was the highest he has ever seen. Anyway we went > to the GP and got a referral to GI team, they did the usual NHS > tests to look for inflammation and results were normal. We did > another follow up CDSA and the lactoferrin levels returned to > normal. Maybe look at upping the natural anti-inflams alittle. > > Baz. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Hey Darla, I've spent the past several months boning up on lactoferrin, and it's one of my favorite subjects right now – and absolutely one of my favorite supplements. Lactoferrin gets elevated when what E.D. Weinberg, one of the world experts on iron and lactoferrin, calls the " iron withholding defense system " goes into high gear. Look here, a bit down the page to understand the iron withholding defense system - http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm (sorry to send you to the CDC -- LOL). To survive and replicate in the body, most (not all) bad microbial pathogens must acquire iron, and they get that iron from their host. Pathogenic microorganisms and host cells actually compete for iron, and lactoferrin is part of the first line of defense in the body's battle against infectious disease. Lactoferrin is one of the body's natural iron-binding proteins, and, together with transferrin and ferritin, it forms this iron withholding system, keeping the body's iron away from invading microorganisms. Lactoferrin is thus an antimicrobial, an antiviral and an antifunga, and has many other amazing activities including that of enhancing the immune system. The thing about lactoferrin, is that it does the work of transferrin wherever transferrin can't do its work. Transferrin cannot function in pH levels that are more acidic than that of blood, which is normally around 7.4. When microbes invade, tissue pH declines because of acids released from both the invaders and the defending white blood cells. So lactoferrin is designed to maintain bodily iron stores at a pH that is acidic (low) or neutral. What lactoferrin does is to rush in to withhold iron from the invading pathogens. The moral of this story is that wherever there is an infection of bacteria (or certain viruses or yeast like Candida), lactoferrin levels will be high. If your child has a number of bad bacteria showing up – and E. coli should be considered a bad bacteria even though it's in the good flora section on many reports, then lactoferrin will be elevated. Lactoferrin may also be elevated if your child has a high iron intake in food (here is a list of high iron foods -- http://www.irondisorders.org/Forms/sr18a303.pdf , but iron content can also be high in your drinking water). So I really wonder if your little has some gut bugs in there and maybe also some high iron intake that is making for elevated lactoferrin levels? Many hugs, Theresa Den Haag, Netherlands > > Just wondering - 's stool tests show VERY high levels of Lactoferrin. > has said that we need to take the test results to 's GP asap. I > have, of course, googled this and I don't understand it. I see on the test that > this is a marker of inflammatory bowel diseases but it doesn't seem to be a > very " mainstream " idea per the google search. Does anyone have experience > with this? > > has been tested through the NHS for coeliac disease and does not have > it. If I take this test to my GP they are going to usher me out the door? > They are already hassling me about the MMR and I'm not keen to take him back in > unless I completely understand what's wrong and what I need to have done for > it. > > Thanks for any links, experience, etc! > Darla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Thank you, so much, Theresa. That makes so much more sense than the high lactoferrin being a sign of bowel disease. I just don't think he has bowel disease, he was tested last February and everything came back fine. He mostly still drinks an infant formula as his primary source of nutrition and it isn't one that is supplemented with high iron as it is intended for premature babies whose iron stores would still be high from their mothers. He does eat broccoli most days but it's usually just one to three bites of it. He eats dried apricots too so he does have a few high iron foods among the very few foods that he does eat. His previous formula had extra iron in it and since he was drinking such vast quantities of it, it could have contributed to the high lactoferrin. He definitely has bad gut bugs, he's just been tested and came back very high for 9 out of 11 bad gut bugs. <sigh> Thank you so much for the information, that was precisely the piece of the puzzle that I was looking for as the bowel disease just didn't make sense to me. Lovely to be in the company of those for whom lactoferrin is a *favorite subject*!! :-) Darla In a message dated 14/11/2006 21:46:34 GMT Standard Time, tltbaku@... writes: Hey Darla,I've spent the past several months boning up on lactoferrin, and it's one of my favorite subjects right now – and absolutely one of my favorite supplements. Lactoferrin gets elevated when what E.D. Weinberg, one of the world experts on iron and lactoferrin, calls the "iron withholding defense system" goes into high gear. Look here, a bit down the page to understand the iron withholding defense system - http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm (sorry to send you to the CDC -- LOL). To survive and replicate in the body, most (not all) bad microbial pathogens must acquire iron, and they get that iron from their host. Pathogenic microorganisms and host cells actually compete for iron, and lactoferrin is part of the first line of defense in the body's battle against infectious disease. Lactoferrin is one of the body's natural iron-binding proteins, and, together with transferrin and ferritin, it forms this iron withholding system, keeping the body's iron away from invading microorganisms. Lactoferrin is thus an antimicrobial, an antiviral and an antifunga, and has many other amazing activities including that of enhancing the immune system. The thing about lactoferrin, is that it does the work of transferrin wherever transferrin can't do its work. Transferrin cannot function in pH levels that are more acidic than that of blood, which is normally around 7.4. When microbes invade, tissue pH declines because of acids released from both the invaders and the defending white blood cells. So lactoferrin is designed to maintain bodily iron stores at a pH that is acidic (low) or neutral. What lactoferrin does is to rush in to withhold iron from the invading pathogens.The moral of this story is that wherever there is an infection of bacteria (or certain viruses or yeast like Candida), lactoferrin levels will be high. If your child has a number of bad bacteria showing up – and E. coli should be considered a bad bacteria even though it's in the good flora section on many reports, then lactoferrin will be elevated. Lactoferrin may also be elevated if your child has a high iron intake in food (here is a list of high iron foods -- http://www.irondisorders.org/Forms/sr18a303.pdf , but iron content can also be high in your drinking water). So I really wonder if your little has some gut bugs in there and maybe also some high iron intake that is making for elevated lactoferrin levels?Many hugs,TheresaDen Haag, Netherlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Hey Darla, It definitely sounds as though bacteria are the main problem, and that he was maybe getting too much iron before. That link is slightly misleading, in that heme iron is the real culprit, and we only get heme iron from red meat sources, not from the plants. So broccoli should not be a probem for him. Are you giving him any vitamin C? Vitamin C enhances iron absorption, and that may not be what he needs right now. Was he premature? Why are you giving that formula? How old is he? Sorry I don't really understand, so am probably asking silly questions. Extra lactoferrin will only help, so you might actually consider trying bovine lactoferrin as a supplement, if your doctor agrees. It will help with the bacteria, and he seems to have a hug numbr of them in there. What bad baceria did she have, by the way? If your doctor wants to see any medical articles on this issue, just email me and I can send you something. Many hugs, Theresa > > > Thank you, so much, Theresa. That makes so much more sense than the high > lactoferrin being a sign of bowel disease. I just don't think he has bowel > disease, he was tested last February and everything came back fine. He mostly > still drinks an infant formula as his primary source of nutrition and it isn't > one that is supplemented with high iron as it is intended for premature > babies whose iron stores would still be high from their mothers. > > He does eat broccoli most days but it's usually just one to three bites of > it. He eats dried apricots too so he does have a few high iron foods among the > very few foods that he does eat. > > His previous formula had extra iron in it and since he was drinking such > vast quantities of it, it could have contributed to the high lactoferrin. He > definitely has bad gut bugs, he's just been tested and came back very high for > 9 out of 11 bad gut bugs. <sigh> > > Thank you so much for the information, that was precisely the piece of the > puzzle that I was looking for as the bowel disease just didn't make sense to > me. > > Lovely to be in the company of those for whom lactoferrin is a *favorite > subject*!! :-) > Darla > > In a message dated 14/11/2006 21:46:34 GMT Standard Time, tltbaku@... > writes: > > Hey Darla, > > I've spent the past several months boning up on lactoferrin, and it's > one of my favorite subjects right now †" and absolutely one of my > favorite supplements. Lactoferrin gets elevated when what E.D. > Weinberg, one of the world experts on iron and lactoferrin, calls > the " iron withholding defense system " goes into high gear. Look > here, a bit down the page to understand the iron withholding defense > system - _http://www.cdc.http://www.http://www.chttp://wwhtt_ > (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm) (sorry > to send you to the CDC -- LOL). > > To survive and replicate in the body, most (not all) bad microbial > pathogens must acquire iron, and they get that iron from their host. > Pathogenic microorganisms and host cells actually compete for iron, > and lactoferrin is part of the first line of defense in the body's > battle against infectious disease. Lactoferrin is one of the body's > natural iron-binding proteins, and, together with transferrin and > ferritin, it forms this iron withholding system, keeping the body's > iron away from invading microorganisms. Lactoferrin is thus an > antimicrobial, an antiviral and an antifunga, and has many other > amazing activities including that of enhancing the immune system. > > The thing about lactoferrin, is that it does the work of transferrin > wherever transferrin can't do its work. Transferrin cannot function > in pH levels that are more acidic than that of blood, which is > normally around 7.4. When microbes invade, tissue pH declines because > of acids released from both the invaders and the defending white > blood cells. So lactoferrin is designed to maintain bodily iron > stores at a pH that is acidic (low) or neutral. What lactoferrin does > is to rush in to withhold iron from the invading pathogens. > > The moral of this story is that wherever there is an infection of > bacteria (or certain viruses or yeast like Candida), lactoferrin > levels will be high. If your child has a number of bad bacteria > showing up †" and E. coli should be considered a bad bacteria even > though it's in the good flora section on many reports, then > lactoferrin will be elevated. Lactoferrin may also be elevated if > your child has a high iron intake in food (here is a list of high > iron foods -- _http://www.irondisohttp://wwwhttp://www.ironhtt_ > (http://www.irondisorders.org/Forms/sr18a303.pdf) , but > iron content can also be high in your drinking water). > > So I really wonder if your little has some gut bugs in there and > maybe also some high iron intake that is making for elevated > lactoferrin levels? > > Many hugs, > Theresa > Den Haag, Netherlands > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Thanks very much, Theresa, that makes even more sense, lol. I tried reading it a couple of times but I have to be honest, there's a lot on right now and I'm really struggling to keep up with the biomed stuff that I need to be looking into, so I don't think I fully understand the situation... He is given Vit C - I've worked it out that he gets about 112mgs from his formula and about 350mgs in drops that are added to his formula (that also has zinc in it). So he gets roughly 462 mgs per day. I don't think this is a high dose, is it? Is this high enough to contribute to the problem? He doesn't eat foods that are high in Vit C. He wasn't premature, he was very late (and then came VERY fast!). He has Neocate formula because he has a food aversion, he is 2 1/2 years old. I've transitioned him to the Neocate (an amino acid formula - so short chain proteins) off of the cow's milk formula and it made astronomical changes in him. His aversive feeding is being worked on in his ABA programme but they've only just started. They've at least got him to drink water from a beaker! (YAY) He eats ham most days but only a few bites (maybe half a slice) but will not touch red meats. I just realised that the Organix test doesn't show the actual strains of bacteria, just the compounds of those infestations, which presumably would be the waste products?- (is that right???) Anyway, he is very high in Benzoate, Hippurate and Phenylacetate (which are in the "bacterial- general" category). He is high in p-Hydroxybenzoate, and p-Hydroxyphenylacetate and Indican (also in the bacteria -general category). He is high in D-lactate which is in the L. acidophilus category. High in clostridial species - dihydroxyphenylpropionate and high in yeast/fungal which is D-Arabinitol. (aren't you glad you asked? lol) It is not surprising that he is riddled with bacteria, yeast and fungus as he takes a proton pump inhibitor and this stops the production of the much needed hcl which would kill off these bad guys. Overgrowth and even stomach colonisation of bad bugs is accepted in allopathic meds to be a side effect of long-term use. Unfortunately he has been on ppi's for most of his life. He tested negative for H pylori though and has no parasites (yay!). It would seem to me that the medically lowered ph would play a part in the high lactoferrin (if I understand what you wrote). Could you explain how you think all of this might fit together? I seem only to be able to string together somewhat oblique connections and can't seem to fit it together meaningfully. Thanks for any comments, it has been extremely helpful. Darla In a message dated 15/11/2006 20:15:37 GMT Standard Time, tltbaku@... writes: Hey Darla,It definitely sounds as though bacteria are the main problem, and that he was maybe getting too much iron before. That link is slightly misleading, in that heme iron is the real culprit, and we only get heme iron from red meat sources, not from the plants. So broccoli should not be a probem for him. Are you giving him any vitamin C? Vitamin C enhances iron absorption, and that may not be what he needs right now. Was he premature? Why are you giving that formula? How old is he? Sorry I don't really understand, so am probably asking silly questions.Extra lactoferrin will only help, so you might actually consider trying bovine lactoferrin as a supplement, if your doctor agrees. It will help with the bacteria, and he seems to have a hug numbr of them in there. What bad baceria did she have, by the way?If your doctor wants to see any medical articles on this issue, just email me and I can send you something.Many hugs,Theresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.