Re: flax seeds...yes or no

[Guest guest]

Dear I apologize for thinking you were arguing against the

article. I realized my mistake later after reading your other posts.

Bee

> In a message dated 9/20/03 9:21:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> beewilder@s... writes:

>

> > The comparison of how much ALA it takes compared to fish oil

> > indicates how fish oil is more beneficial because you take a lot

less.

>

> I understood that. I was just highlighting it for the sake of the

discussion

> since it was one of the points I'd made, not arguing against the

article.

>

> >

> > The point they made about Vitamin E is like " a tongue in cheek "

> > comment. The article needs to be read in it's entirety.

>

> Now that I didn't get. Thanks :-)

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Suze,

I understand that, but I've never seen flax oil reported as a good vitamin E

source, whereas it's pufa content is enormous. Enig has no figures

whatsoever reported for vitamin E in flax oil.

Moreover, that's all fine for the plant, but for us, it ignores the fact that

EPA will more or less rapidly get converted into prostaglandings in large

amounts, DHA will theoretically get incorporated in brain and retinal tissue, or

else get converted to EPA and get used for prostaglandins, etc, the former

case in which it is surrounded by loads of carotenes, cholesterol, etc, etc,

that

would protect it, whereas grams upon grams of unconverted ALA will float

around or get stored in adipose tissue, recirculate in the blood, etc.

Chris

In a message dated 9/21/03 9:19:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ----->chris, whatever amount of vit. E that terrestial plants contain, it's

> certainly enough to protect them from the oxidizing rays of the sun. many or

> most fish are well below the water's surface and are thus not constantly

> exposed to the intense light and heat that a number of terrestial plants

> are. of course nature fixed it so terrestial plants have a natural defense

> mechanism to protect their oils from oxidizing and apparently vitamin E

> seems to be a part of that mechanism. whether or not their vitamin E content

> is enough to protect the oils after harvesting i don't know, but i believe

> that's probably what mercola was referring to. oh, and plus the fact that

> there are only *3* double bonds in ALA to protect, whereas there's double

> that number in DHA and nearly double it in EPA.

[Guest guest]

>>>>Fair enough, you didn't mention it but it's the predominant theme

here. Seems like people here eat only sat fat!

---->well, it's hardly true that SF is *all* we eat, but we do value it

highly! absolutely, without restraint. you have to realize that it's so

egregiously demonized in the mainstream, against the evidence- scientific,

historic and anecdotal that it simply boggles the mind.

>>>>Veggies aren't real

important, fruit isn't necessary, who cares about fiber, omega-3s

cause cancer.

----->i don't think that's an accurate characterization of this whole board.

i personally think veggies are important, as i've heard others state on this

board, and i think most folks agree that omega 3s, in small quantities at

least, are essential. there may be a few descentors, but that's fine. we

don't all agree on everything.

>>>>While I can agree that sat. fat isn't the bad guy

here... some of the stuff on this board REALLY goes against the grain.

----->THANKFULLY! you have to realize the " grain " - mainstream nutrition

dogma is often just completely wrong. and is often the product of many

influences rather than honest scientific inquiry. in fact, *many* of us are

here after years of *following* the grain and consequently getting sicker

and sicker! it takes some level of critical thinking and independent thought

to arrive at this board. so yes, this board really does go against the

grain.

>>>It goes against almost all respected research out there.

---->respected by *whom*??? LOL there's a ton of junk science in print. i'm

sure it's well respected by *somebody* since it keeps getting printed, but

that sure doesn't make it right or believable.

>>>Now, I'm hardly in a position to criticize being a layman and all, but it

makes

the group as a whole lack credibility (again, from my layman

perspective).

----->applying a higher level of analytical rigor to scientific studies and

using the additional reference point of the diets of multiple generations of

healthy groups of people makes this group " lack credibility " ? sheesh...i'd

hate to know what *garners* credibility from your perspective.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> One advantage of the consumption of ALA over omega-3 fats from fish

> is that the problem of insufficient vitamin E intake does not exist

> with high intake of ALA from plant sources.

>>>This makes no sense to me. Plant oils are not that high in vitamin E,

except

palm oil and wheat germ oil for the most part, which are not high in ALA.

----->chris, whatever amount of vit. E that terrestial plants contain, it's

certainly enough to protect them from the oxidizing rays of the sun. many or

most fish are well below the water's surface and are thus not constantly

exposed to the intense light and heat that a number of terrestial plants

are. of course nature fixed it so terrestial plants have a natural defense

mechanism to protect their oils from oxidizing and apparently vitamin E

seems to be a part of that mechanism. whether or not their vitamin E content

is enough to protect the oils after harvesting i don't know, but i believe

that's probably what mercola was referring to. oh, and plus the fact that

there are only *3* double bonds in ALA to protect, whereas there's double

that number in DHA and nearly double it in EPA.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> But I have fuond it has uses in some LC

> baking recipes so I've never made a point of avoiding

> it.

>>>>Wouldn't baking with something that's nearly all pufa be a bad idea?

---->it's a REALLY REALLY bad idea! i hate seeing all those cooked flax

products at the HFS! might as well just deep fat fry your food in salmon

oil! LOL

sorry jo, i'm not referring to you, but about commercial operations that

know damn well they're selling a product that is likely high in oxidizied

oil, yet are doing it anyway.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>I understand that, but I've never seen flax oil reported as a good

vitamin E

source, whereas it's pufa content is enormous. Enig has no figures

whatsoever reported for vitamin E in flax oil.

---->chris, i wasn't making the point that flax seeds or oil are a good

source of vitamin E. i was only trying to interpret what mercola was saying,

and IIRC, the point was that you may not need to add as much vit. E when

taking ALA-rich plants because they already contain vitamin E that protects

the oil in the seed or plant. i think some of the E is lost in processing

the oil, but is still intact in the seed itself. i have no idea if that

helps protect it from oxidizing once you ingest it, i was just trying to

intrepet his point.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

But remember that the PUFA in the plant is protected by the living systems

of the plant when the plant is alive, and even aside from that, the

internal environment of a plant is quite different from the internal

environment of a human being.

>the point was that you may not need to add as much vit. E when

>taking ALA-rich plants because they already contain vitamin E that protects

>the oil in the seed or plant.

-

[Guest guest]

But I have fuond it has uses in some LC

> > baking recipes so I've never made a point of

> avoiding

> > it.

>

> >>>>Wouldn't baking with something that's nearly all

> pufa be a bad idea?

>

I figured that because the PUFA was still in it's

natural form in the seed which I grind just prior to

baking, that it's not too bad. I rarely use them and

the small box I have has lasted me about 18 months so

far.

Jo

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