Re: Guilt, satiety, calorie restriction...

[Guest guest]

,

It sounds like guilt is your worst enemy, not food. Did you read Christies

" Food of Love Thing " article?

For what it's worth, I've found that nothing has comparable satiety value to

long-chain saturated fats. In other words I could probably drink glasses of

olive oil or eat pounds of nuts, which would do nothing for satiety compared to

putting a few tablespoons of butter on my bread.

Why don't you just save sugary things for treats? In other words, stay away

from sugars and starches during the day, make sure you've had your fill of

everything you need from protein, fat, veggies, and then add your banans and

dates and bread as desert? That way you can think of them as a reward for

having

eaten all the other food you are eating for basic requirements, and you can

feel good instead of bad for eating them.

But before chaning your diet, why not make a committment to never feel guilty

or depressed about eating?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/29/03 8:37:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

paultheo2000@... writes:

> No, I must of missed the article, do you have a link?

It would be in the archives, just search them. It was posted to the list in

email text, so you don't need a link.

> I don't know about sat. fat being satisfying. I'm pretty sure I could

> entire loaves of bread with salty butter on it (unfortunately).

It's worth trying eating more butter for a given piece of bread to give it a

shot, but I suppose it's different with everyone.

>

> Oh, I do keep sugary things as treats. But then it escalates,

> unfortunately. I'll eat dinner, and feel fairly full. So I tell myself

> I can eat a banana...but that usually just makes me hungrier again. I

> tested this just now and I think that perhaps the only way to avoid

> hunger is by eating fairly bland things (non-spiced steak, squash and

> green veggies seems to do the trick).

I suspect if this is true you shouldn't eat bananas at all. Certain raw

fruits seems to produce this feeling in certain people, and my intuition and

personal experience tells me this is due to an intolerance of some sort to the

raw

version of the fruit.

> Oh, I never feel depressed about eating...although I do feel somewhat

> guilty (less than before). On the one hand, if I never felt guilty, I

> might indulge in really unhealthy foods, so I think guilt isn't all bad.

I doubt it. I don't ever feel guilty for anything, yet I rarely eat anything

that comes with a label.

I understand your point, but I don't think guilt is the answer to control.

> Thanks for the advice,

>

Your welcome, for what it's worth.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>> Thoughts? Advice? How do you guys go about reconciling the health

aspect with the joys of eating? (I should note that I enjoy my food

more now then I did when eating unhealthily, which pleasantly

surprised me). <<

I have great joy of eating on Atkins done with an NT twist. <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

Hi

No, I must of missed the article, do you have a link?

I don't know about sat. fat being satisfying. I'm pretty sure I could

entire loaves of bread with salty butter on it (unfortunately).

Oh, I do keep sugary things as treats. But then it escalates,

unfortunately. I'll eat dinner, and feel fairly full. So I tell myself

I can eat a banana...but that usually just makes me hungrier again. I

tested this just now and I think that perhaps the only way to avoid

hunger is by eating fairly bland things (non-spiced steak, squash and

green veggies seems to do the trick).

Oh, I never feel depressed about eating...although I do feel somewhat

guilty (less than before). On the one hand, if I never felt guilty, I

might indulge in really unhealthy foods, so I think guilt isn't all bad.

Thanks for the advice,

-

> ,

>

> It sounds like guilt is your worst enemy, not food. Did you read

Christies

> " Food of Love Thing " article?

>

> For what it's worth, I've found that nothing has comparable satiety

value to

> long-chain saturated fats. In other words I could probably drink

glasses of

> olive oil or eat pounds of nuts, which would do nothing for satiety

compared to

> putting a few tablespoons of butter on my bread.

>

> Why don't you just save sugary things for treats? In other words,

stay away

> from sugars and starches during the day, make sure you've had your

fill of

> everything you need from protein, fat, veggies, and then add your

banans and

> dates and bread as desert? That way you can think of them as a

reward for having

> eaten all the other food you are eating for basic requirements, and

you can

> feel good instead of bad for eating them.

>

> But before chaning your diet, why not make a committment to never

feel guilty

> or depressed about eating?

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you eat bread or fruit? How did you go about eliminating most carbs

from your diet?

Cheers,

-

> >> Thoughts? Advice? How do you guys go about reconciling the health

> aspect with the joys of eating? (I should note that I enjoy my food

> more now then I did when eating unhealthily, which pleasantly

> surprised me). <<

>

> I have great joy of eating on Atkins done with an NT twist. <G>

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I'm really having trouble being consistent in my eating lifestyle.

>Partly because I'm so undecided about what's healthy and what's not.

>Study after study seems to support calorie restriction, and if this is

>the case, then I obviously don't want to throw 20-30 healthy years of

>extra life down the drain. On the flipside, I'm aware that perhaps

>it's all a matter of insulin and what I should be doing is cutting out

>most carbs. So half the time I feel guilty about eating high calorie

>fatty foods (cheese, coconut, butter, whole milk, pate) and half the

>time I feel guilty about eating high carb foods like sweet potatoes,

>bananas, pumpernickel bread, etc.

At the risk of being really redundant, that is kind of what started

this whole WD thing. Mice fed EVERY OTHER day live as long as the

calorie-restricted mice, without being calorie restricted. Near as I can

tell so far, IT WORKS -- I feel 10 years younger, anyway, joint pains gone,

blood sugar problems gone, thinking clearer, muscles harder, fat shrinking.

Pretty good for a Mom in her late 40's. It's brain-dead easy too.

It probably does have something to do with insulin etc. but Ori's take

is that your body will tell you what it needs, given half a chance.

I'm not sure why it is more accurate after a day of fasting, but that

does seem to be the case. Some days I want carbs, some days I

don't, but I enjoy food a lot more.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>It sounds like guilt is your worst enemy, not food.

I think the distinction to be made is between taking responsibility for

your choices (when you make a poor choice), vs. blaming yourself for it.

Some people seem to lump the two together under the name of guilt, when the

blame part is unnecessary.

-

[Guest guest]

> I think the distinction to be made is between taking responsibility for

> your choices (when you make a poor choice), vs. blaming yourself for

> it.

> Some people seem to lump the two together under the name of guilt,

> when the

> blame part is unnecessary.

Yeah, I ate cookies today, the absolute worst kind for me (the kind

with the really sugary filling--you know, like wafer cookies). I had

some heart palpitations and thought, well, that's what happens. I've

asked my husband to keep them out of the house henceforward (take them

to work and eat them there) since there is something about those

cookies that I cannot resist, quite literally, if they're anywhere near

me. I can resist *doughnuts,* which if they're from our local bakery

are about the yummiest thing out there (their cake doughnuts have just

the right amount of nutmeg), but not these stupid things.

Lynn S.

who had a glucose/insulin test today...very interested in the results...

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

People-Powered ! http://www.deanforamerica.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi again Heidi,

Concerning fasting in mice, I'd like to point out something. Mice die

after not eating for a week. That means that fasting for a day is more

analogous to a human fasting for 4 days (96 hours), not 20 hours.

I've no doubts that you've made a lot of progress, but I've

experimented many ways and felt little difference. I should also

mention that I'm 17 and in good health... so I don't expect to feel a

tangible difference either way.

I'm very skeptical about the whole 'your body tells you what you

need'. If my body sees chocolate or sweetened cranberries, it's going

to crave them even if there's perfectly good brussel sprouts right

beside. I don't think fasting for 20 hours makes the obviously

dangerous eating instinct go away. If anything, it makes it worse.

Cheers,

-

>

> >I'm really having trouble being consistent in my eating lifestyle.

> >Partly because I'm so undecided about what's healthy and what's not.

> >Study after study seems to support calorie restriction, and if this is

> >the case, then I obviously don't want to throw 20-30 healthy years of

> >extra life down the drain. On the flipside, I'm aware that perhaps

> >it's all a matter of insulin and what I should be doing is cutting out

> >most carbs. So half the time I feel guilty about eating high calorie

> >fatty foods (cheese, coconut, butter, whole milk, pate) and half the

> >time I feel guilty about eating high carb foods like sweet potatoes,

> >bananas, pumpernickel bread, etc.

>

> At the risk of being really redundant, that is kind of what started

> this whole WD thing. Mice fed EVERY OTHER day live as long as the

> calorie-restricted mice, without being calorie restricted. Near as I can

> tell so far, IT WORKS -- I feel 10 years younger, anyway, joint

pains gone,

> blood sugar problems gone, thinking clearer, muscles harder, fat

shrinking.

> Pretty good for a Mom in her late 40's. It's brain-dead easy too.

>

> It probably does have something to do with insulin etc. but Ori's take

> is that your body will tell you what it needs, given half a chance.

> I'm not sure why it is more accurate after a day of fasting, but that

> does seem to be the case. Some days I want carbs, some days I

> don't, but I enjoy food a lot more.

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Hi

Yeah, maybe I should drop the bananas and other such trigger foods.

But why do you think is due to an intolerance? Wouldn't it be quite

the opposite? I simply enjoy the food and can't stop eating it!

You're right...guilt isn't the best way to gain control over a

positive eating lifestyle, but I haven't yet mastered any better way.

-

----

> I suspect if this is true you shouldn't eat bananas at all. Certain

raw

> fruits seems to produce this feeling in certain people, and my

intuition and

> personal experience tells me this is due to an intolerance of some

sort to the raw

> version of the fruit.

>

> > Oh, I never feel depressed about eating...although I do feel somewhat

> > guilty (less than before). On the one hand, if I never felt guilty, I

> > might indulge in really unhealthy foods, so I think guilt isn't

all bad.

>

> I doubt it. I don't ever feel guilty for anything, yet I rarely eat

anything

> that comes with a label.

>

> I understand your point, but I don't think guilt is the answer to

control.

>

> > Thanks for the advice,

> >

> Your welcome, for what it's worth.

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Yeah, I ate cookies today, the absolute worst kind for me (the kind

>with the really sugary filling--you know, like wafer cookies). I had

>some heart palpitations and thought, well, that's what happens.

Yup, that's what works for me, just staying aware of what I do and what the

results are, keeping the blame out of it.

>Lynn S.

>who had a glucose/insulin test today...very interested in the results...

Glucose/insulin? I was under the impression that the only reliable insulin

testing was the one done by specialized labs like Diagnos-Techs. Is that

what you had?

-

[Guest guest]

> Yeah, I ate cookies today, the absolute worst kind for me (the kind

> with the really sugary filling--you know, like wafer cookies). I

had

> some heart palpitations and thought, well, that's what happens.

I've

> asked my husband to keep them out of the house henceforward (take

them

> to work and eat them there) since there is something about those

> cookies that I cannot resist, quite literally, if they're anywhere

near

> me. I can resist *doughnuts,* which if they're from our local

bakery

> are about the yummiest thing out there (their cake doughnuts have

just

> the right amount of nutmeg), but not these stupid things.

>

> Lynn S.

I used to be super-addicted to all kinds of junk food. In fact, as a

kid, I'd only eat ice cream, French fries, grilled cheese sandwiches,

chocolate milk, root beer, doughnuts, and candy. In college I added

many other junk foods to this list, including diet coke. I pretty

much lived off of food in a vending machine. As an adult I've had

one heck of a time breaking the addictions.

I just wanted to share my experience with quitting junk food. I

think some people have a much harder time than others. I was out of

control and couldn't stop for months even after I ordered my copy of

NT and knew precisely what kind of damage they were doing. When I

increased the amount of saturated fat in my diet, many of my cravings

lessened and I could use will power to keep from eating them. But I

still had trouble when someone brought doughnuts to work or at church

potlucks. I would have gone for weeks without eating any junk food

and then I'd have a doughnut or slice of pie or way more potatoes

than I knew I could handle, and I'd feel so sick. I think you were

the one that called it a hangover? That's funny, but that's exactly

what it felt like. I finally decided that occasionally eating crap

and then feeling like crap is part of the process. I'd go longer and

longer between times when I'd eat junk and it would make me sicker

and it would taste less good than the time before.

Diet coke was one of the hardest for me. I've gone about a year with

not diet coke. A couple of months ago, I saw my husband's diet coke

(we're still working on him :-) ) on the table and out of curiosity

more than anything, I took a small sip. It tasted awful. So I guess

my advise is to keep eating the occasional doughnut or cookie, and

pay close attention to how lousy you feel and how it tastes, and give

it time.

Also, reading The Mood Cure by Ross helped too. She discusses

several aminio acids that you can take to help quell cravings. Many

people with intense food cravings have low serotonin leves. I found

out I was low on Serotonin because of my caffinee and artificial

sweetner habits blocked serotonin. She also talks about Serotonin

being low in many of her alcoholic patients and supplementing with 5-

htp (serotonin precursor) and B vitamins helped the alcoholics break

their alcohol addiction. I think you mentioned you were an

alcoholic, so you might be low on serotonin, too. (Other symptoms

are any or all of the following: depression, addictions (alcohol,

drug, etc), eating disorders, phobias, perfectionism, sleeping

problems, SAD, obsessive-compulsive disorders, emotional instability,

irrational anger and overreacting, headaches/migrains, food cravings,

weight gain) The right diet will fix all of the items on the list,

but 5-htp was a godsend to me for the transition period, and really

sped up progress.

I didn't mean for this to be so long, I had only wanted to say that

for me, getting sick from junk food was a normal and helpful part of

the process.

Betsy

[Guest guest]

>Hi again Heidi,

>

>Concerning fasting in mice, I'd like to point out something. Mice die

>after not eating for a week. That means that fasting for a day is more

>analogous to a human fasting for 4 days (96 hours), not 20 hours.

Good point. I'm not sure how long it takes for food to travel through their

intestines though, which might be the key. A snake eats once

a month, but it takes a week to digest the food.

However, I think it is likely that fasting for 20 is better than

constant browsing.

>I've no doubts that you've made a lot of progress, but I've

>experimented many ways and felt little difference. I should also

>mention that I'm 17 and in good health... so I don't expect to feel a

>tangible difference either way.

Sheesh, at 17 you can probably do anything and be ok! I only mentioned

it because you were talking about the " restricted calorie "

experiments and your own concern about long life and guilt

etc. Ori has a pretty good take on the psychological

aspects of eating and life the universe and everything.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

>Yup, that's what works for me, just staying aware of what I do and what the

>results are, keeping the blame out of it.

I think that attitude is really key. When I was growing up,

some foods were " sin foods " and sheesh, that just

makes me want them MORE. With my daughter,

who reacts to some foods, I try to say stuff

like " well, last time you ate it you got a canker

sore (or whatever). You could eat it again, if

you want, and we can keep track of whether or

not it does again " . Usually she looks at it and

says, " But I don't LIKE getting canker sores!

Why should I eat something that makes me

feel bad? " I think she'll deal with food issues

in a much healthier way than I did!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> Hi

>

> Yeah, maybe I should drop the bananas and other such trigger foods.

> But why do you think is due to an intolerance?

Because when you eat something and that makes you feel hungry, that

means there's something wrong! Moreover, it seems to be primarily

raw fruits and veggies that trigger these feelings in myself and

anyone I've talked to so far, and since most vegetables and fruit are

better cooked than not, it falls into place logically.

Moreover, it seems to be the same problem foods that occur in

different people-- apples and bananas seem to be the big ones for

fruits.

Wouldn't it be quite

> the opposite? I simply enjoy the food and can't stop eating it!

That's a sign of an allergy.

>

> You're right...guilt isn't the best way to gain control over a

> positive eating lifestyle, but I haven't yet mastered any better

way.

If your healthy and 17, you have plenty of time to learn the control

thing before you are desperate enough to try guilt.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/30/03 12:48:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Good point. I'm not sure how long it takes for food to travel through their

> intestines though, which might be the key. A snake eats once

> a month, but it takes a week to digest the food.

> However, I think it is likely that fasting for 20 is better than

> constant browsing.

I think there are way too many factors to try to make a human-mouse

conversion factor for fasting time. It is like trying to figure out what a

dollar is

worth in 1838 compared to 2003.

I think the point of the WD is that it makes the benefits of fasting

convenient and practical.

> Sheesh, at 17 you can probably do anything and be ok! I only mentioned

> it because you were talking about the " restricted calorie "

> experiments and your own concern about long life and guilt

> etc. Ori has a pretty good take on the psychological

> aspects of eating and life the universe and everything.

As long as he doesn't try veganism! I went veggie at 18, vegan at 19, and NT

at 20, and if it weren't for the latter change I'd be in big trouble by now,

and already was.

, didn't you say you'd been working out for 10 years before? Maybe I'm

mis-remembering.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/30/03 2:17:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

paultheo2000@... writes:

> I'm curious: has anyone else had the same experience as Betsy? It

> hasn't held true for me (so far--I've only been eating clean less

> about 6 months now) yet. A study I saw showed that people still found

> most junk foods delicious after 6 years of abstinence.

Yes, but these people were probably abstaining from junk food in favor of

other junk food, and never replacing the junk food with true nutrient-dense

food.

I occasionally eat sugary stuff out of respect when people offer it to me,

and I find it absolutely revolting.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I'd love to know to what extent we can extrapolate from mice

studies concerning feasting and fasting. The CR part seems like a sure

bet (theoretically--that's assuming you're upto the challenge).

-

----

> Good point. I'm not sure how long it takes for food to travel

through their

> intestines though, which might be the key. A snake eats once

> a month, but it takes a week to digest the food.

> However, I think it is likely that fasting for 20 is better than

> constant browsing.

>

> >I've no doubts that you've made a lot of progress, but I've

> >experimented many ways and felt little difference. I should also

> >mention that I'm 17 and in good health... so I don't expect to feel a

> >tangible difference either way.

>

> Sheesh, at 17 you can probably do anything and be ok! I only mentioned

> it because you were talking about the " restricted calorie "

> experiments and your own concern about long life and guilt

> etc. Ori has a pretty good take on the psychological

> aspects of eating and life the universe and everything.

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/30/03 2:26:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

paultheo2000@... writes:

> I'm very intrigued by what you're saying here. It all seems so

> counter intuitive to me. Could you elaborate on allergies and

> stimulated hunger?

Not really, because I don't know much about it. But that's basically

indisputable, as far as I know. Heidi probably knows a lot more about it than

me.

If something is throwing off your appestat, if something you eat makes you

more hungry, which is obviously opposite of what should happen, or if something

is truly addictive rather than tasting good, then that is a pretty clear sign

it's doing some sort of damage.

> About guilt...I'm eating throw a whole bag of pistachios as we speak

> guilty free.

Good for you. lol. As I said before, my personal philosophy is to fill up

on what I know I need, and then eat the pleasure stuff after. It so happens

that I don't have a lot of room for much pleasure stuff, and since I have all

the nutrients I need, my regulatory systems are working and eating sugar stuff

(what I call sugary stuff is probably a bit different from the average

person...) doesn't make my stomach a bottomless pit.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I'm curious: has anyone else had the same experience as Betsy? It

hasn't held true for me (so far--I've only been eating clean less

about 6 months now) yet. A study I saw showed that people still found

most junk foods delicious after 6 years of abstinence.

Any anecdotes?

-

----

>

> I just wanted to share my experience with quitting junk food. I

> think some people have a much harder time than others. I was out of

> control and couldn't stop for months even after I ordered my copy of

> NT and knew precisely what kind of damage they were doing. When I

> increased the amount of saturated fat in my diet, many of my cravings

> lessened and I could use will power to keep from eating them. But I

> still had trouble when someone brought doughnuts to work or at church

> potlucks. I would have gone for weeks without eating any junk food

> and then I'd have a doughnut or slice of pie or way more potatoes

> than I knew I could handle, and I'd feel so sick. I think you were

> the one that called it a hangover? That's funny, but that's exactly

> what it felt like. I finally decided that occasionally eating crap

> and then feeling like crap is part of the process. I'd go longer and

> longer between times when I'd eat junk and it would make me sicker

> and it would taste less good than the time before.

>

> Diet coke was one of the hardest for me. I've gone about a year with

> not diet coke. A couple of months ago, I saw my husband's diet coke

> (we're still working on him :-) ) on the table and out of curiosity

> more than anything, I took a small sip. It tasted awful. So I guess

> my advise is to keep eating the occasional doughnut or cookie, and

> pay close attention to how lousy you feel and how it tastes, and give

> it time.

>

> Also, reading The Mood Cure by Ross helped too. She discusses

> several aminio acids that you can take to help quell cravings. Many

> people with intense food cravings have low serotonin leves. I found

> out I was low on Serotonin because of my caffinee and artificial

> sweetner habits blocked serotonin. She also talks about Serotonin

> being low in many of her alcoholic patients and supplementing with 5-

> htp (serotonin precursor) and B vitamins helped the alcoholics break

> their alcohol addiction. I think you mentioned you were an

> alcoholic, so you might be low on serotonin, too. (Other symptoms

> are any or all of the following: depression, addictions (alcohol,

> drug, etc), eating disorders, phobias, perfectionism, sleeping

> problems, SAD, obsessive-compulsive disorders, emotional instability,

> irrational anger and overreacting, headaches/migrains, food cravings,

> weight gain) The right diet will fix all of the items on the list,

> but 5-htp was a godsend to me for the transition period, and really

> sped up progress.

>

> I didn't mean for this to be so long, I had only wanted to say that

> for me, getting sick from junk food was a normal and helpful part of

> the process.

>

> Betsy

[Guest guest]

,

In a message dated 9/30/03 2:27:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

annas88@... writes:

> Why are they better cooked?

Because the majority of the plant kingdom contains either toxic substances

that need to be neutralized through cooking or fermenting, anti-nutrients that

need to be neutralized by cooking or fermenting, irritants that need to be

neutralized by cooking or fermenting, or nutrients that are made more available

by

cooking or fermenting. Fermenting is almost always the better option.

Why wouldnt raw be less allergenic with the

> enzymes and everything?

Firstly because most plant foods are low in enzymes, the main exceptions

being bananas, pineapples, papayas, and honey. Second because I'm not aware of

any anti-allergy effects of food enzymes, and the anti-allergy substances that

are in foods such as flavanoids like quercitin I'm not aware of being destroyed

by heat (maybe they are, I don't know).

But mostly because the allergenic or irritant substances are destroyed by

cooking.

>>Wouldn't it be quite> >the opposite? I

> simply enjoy the food and can't stop eating it! >That's a sign of an

> allergy.

> Or a sign of HUNGER!

But hunger usually ceases in response to food. If your stomach is a

bottomless pit, there's something wrong with the way you're eating or what

you're

eating... and if a food actually induces hunger than there is definitely

something

wrong with it.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them

make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion,

which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of

the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray

ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for

those

who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I'm very intrigued by what you're saying here. It all seems so

counter intuitive to me. Could you elaborate on allergies and

stimulated hunger?

About guilt...I'm eating throw a whole bag of pistachios as we speak

guilty free.

-

> > Hi

> >

> > Yeah, maybe I should drop the bananas and other such trigger foods.

> > But why do you think is due to an intolerance?

>

> Because when you eat something and that makes you feel hungry, that

> means there's something wrong! Moreover, it seems to be primarily

> raw fruits and veggies that trigger these feelings in myself and

> anyone I've talked to so far, and since most vegetables and fruit are

> better cooked than not, it falls into place logically.

>

> Moreover, it seems to be the same problem foods that occur in

> different people-- apples and bananas seem to be the big ones for

> fruits.

>

> Wouldn't it be quite

> > the opposite? I simply enjoy the food and can't stop eating it!

>

> That's a sign of an allergy.

>

> >

> > You're right...guilt isn't the best way to gain control over a

> > positive eating lifestyle, but I haven't yet mastered any better

> way.

>

> If your healthy and 17, you have plenty of time to learn the control

> thing before you are desperate enough to try guilt.

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

From: chrismasterjohn [mailto: ChrisMasterjohn@...]To:

@...: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:52:18 -0000Subject:

Re: Guilt, satiety, calorie restriction... & gt;Because when

you eat something and that makes you feel hungry, that & gt;means there's

something wrong! Moreover, it seems to be primarily & gt;raw fruits and veggies

that trigger these feelings in myself and & gt;anyone I've talked to so far, and

since most vegetables and fruit are & gt;better cooked than not, it falls into

place logically.

Why are they better cooked? Why wouldnt raw be less allergenic with the enzymes

and everything? & gt; & gt;Wouldn't it be quite & gt; & gt;the opposite? I simply

enjoy the food and can't stop eating it! & gt;That's a sign of an allergy.

Or a sign of HUNGER!

[Guest guest]

>Yeah, I'd love to know to what extent we can extrapolate from mice

>studies concerning feasting and fasting. The CR part seems like a sure

>bet (theoretically--that's assuming you're upto the challenge).

>

>-

I'm curious: why do you think CR is a sure bet but are

unsure about the feast/fast idea? AFAIK the evidence is

about the same for both.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>I'm curious: has anyone else had the same experience as Betsy? It

>hasn't held true for me (so far--I've only been eating clean less

>about 6 months now) yet. A study I saw showed that people still found

>most junk foods delicious after 6 years of abstinence.

>

>Any anecdotes?

>

>-

It has been the opposite for me ... but my " junk " food all has

my favorite allergen in it and they make me nauseous. Once

I put two and two together, my mind gets repelled

by eating them. I can feel the queasiness I WILL feel in

advance. I craved some of them for a LONG time though,

until I figured that out. Also I had to get rid of every bit

of wheat in my diet.

So it might depend WHY you are avoiding the junk. If

it gives you some actual problem, just paying attention

to the effects may be enough to retrain your brain.

If it is just a theory " I shouldn't eat this because I've

read it is bad " then I think it is really hard to stick to.

-- Heidi