Olympic Lifting and Westside

[Guest guest]

My first love is Olympic Lifting but feel the Westside Barbell

Club methods are the best concerning Strength developement. I

have been doing the Westside Squat Max Effort(ME) & Dynamic

Effort(DE) days as they describe for nearly 2 years. My

Powerlifting Style Back squat and Good Mornings have improved

dramatically (Squat: from approx.400 to approx. 500. GM:315+ for

3 Good reps and climbing.

I train in my garage alone with Safety Bars so maxes are determined using my

best judgement).

However, when I try Olympic Front Squats, Overhead squats and

Olympic Back squats (High Bar, knees over feet, Back vertical) I

haven't been getting the carry-over I was hoping for.

I was thinking about substituting DE Box Squats for Olympic Back

squats(High Bar, knees over feet, Back vertical) 50-60% using

Bands but no box, dropping very fast and exploding back with no

pause at bottom and short pause at top between reps (2reps x

8-12sets). ME day would be variety of GM's as well as variations

of Olympic front/back/overhead squats (not using a box).

Perhaps the Box squats, although great for Powerlifting, are not

suited for Olympic lifting because of the bent-over position and

lack of quad stress? Does anyone out there have any opinion on this?

Sam Tsounis

Oakville Ontario

[Guest guest]

" stsounis " <stsounis@s...> wrote:

> My first love is Olympic Lifting but feel the Westside Barbell

> Club methods are the best concerning Strength developement. I

> have been doing the Westside Squat Max Effort(ME) & Dynamic

> Effort(DE) days as they describe for nearly 2 years. My

> Powerlifting Style Back squat and Good Mornings have improved

> dramatically (Squat: from approx.400 to approx. 500. GM:315+ for

> 3 Good reps and climbing.

>

> I train in my garage alone with Safety Bars so maxes are determined using my

best judgement).

> However, when I try Olympic Front Squats, Overhead squats and

> Olympic Back squats (High Bar, knees over feet, Back vertical) I

> haven't been getting the carry-over I was hoping for.

No surprise... I think box squats should work very well when one

uses strong suits which brake you at the bottom, monolift to be able

to unrack the weights with those X-wide stances, and also when depth

rules arent so strict. Its very hard to reach legal depth at some

federations while using those wide stances.

> I was thinking about substituting DE Box Squats for Olympic Back

> squats(High Bar, knees over feet, Back vertical) 50-60% using

> Bands but no box, dropping very fast and exploding back with no

> pause at bottom and short pause at top between reps (2reps x

> 8-12sets).

Its going to work very well, Tom McCullough trains like this, using

percentages and Prilepin's table - Im also trying this for awhile.

>ME day would be variety of GM's as well as variations

> of Olympic front/back/overhead squats (not using a box).

> Perhaps the Box squats, although great for Powerlifting, are not

> suited for Olympic lifting because of the bent-over position and

> lack of quad stress? Does anyone out there have any opinion on this?

The farther your knees move forward during a squat, the greater the

quadriceps activation. It's impossible to ascend from the box without

extending the knee, so the quadriceps are also active, but the lever

arm for hip muscles is far longer in this position, so the hip muscles must

work far harder than the knee muscles.

Denilson Costa

Rio de Janeiro, Brasil

[Guest guest]

Sam Tsounis wrote:

>Perhaps the Box squats, although great for

>Powerlifting, are not

>suited for Olympic lifting because of the bent-over

>position and

>lack of quad stress? Does anyone out there have any

>opinion on this?

Sam,

I think the answer to " Are box squats good for OL? " is

another question, " What are your weak points? " . If

you're weak in the low back and hips, then box squats

are just what the doctor ordered. How do you know if

your low back and hips are your weak link? If you can

easily front squat your best squat clean more than 3

times and/or you can hang clean from above the knees

much more than you can clean from the floor, then your

back is relatively weak compared with your legs.

Box squats will help you.

If, however, you can clean more than you can front

squat (or close) then you need to strengthen your

quads. This is me. I can power clean more than I can

front squat because my knees get too sore when I squat

often enough to strengthen my legs. If I want to

raise my squat clean, then I need to do OL style front

and back squats.

The key to WSB training is to improve your weak links.

To do that effectively, you need to be able to identify

your weak links.

Rande Treece

Denver, CO

[Guest guest]

" stsounis " <stsounis@s...> wrote:

> My first love is Olympic Lifting but feel the Westside Barbell

> Club methods are the best concerning Strength developement. I

> have been doing the Westside Squat Max Effort(ME) & Dynamic

> Effort(DE) days as they describe for nearly 2 years. My

> Powerlifting Style Back squat and Good Mornings have improved

> dramatically (Squat: from approx.400 to approx. 500. GM:315+ for

> 3 Good reps and climbing.

**** I am a Powerlifter who has turned to Weightlifting. I have had

success using Westside methods in Weightlifting (remember most of his

information comes from weightlifting in Russia etc). This is how I

incorporate his ideas.

Speed day (Day 1)

Clean and Jerks (2 cleans 1 jerk) 10 sets with 60%

Here I am focusing on technique and speed.

Strengthening exercises usually 2 or 3. I chose these by evaluating

my weaknesses.

Max day (Day 2)

Snatch and squat related exercises. So looking for improvements in

power snatch, snatch pulls etc.

Exercises are with high loads +85%

Speed day (Day 3)

Snatch 10 set 2 reps with 60%

Here I am focusing on technique and speed.

Strengthening exercises usually 2 or 3. I chose these by evaluating

my weaknesses.

Max day (Day 4)

Clean and squat related exercises. So looking for improvements in

power clean, clean pulls etc.

The Westside method would have day 1 as Sunday, day 2 Monday, day 3

Wednesday and day 4 Friday. But feel free to fit it into whatever

scheme you can recover from, be that a 7 day cycle or a 10 day cycle.

[You seem to be spending far too much time on 60% efforts, which do little to

enhance strength, specific technique and stability under heavy loads for

weightlifting.

Also the use of two cleans and one jerk is inadequate for developing jerking

strength and technique.

By basing your training on powerlifting methods, you are neglecting the major

difference between weightlifting and powerlifting, namely the really explosive

and

ballistic nature of the latter. The force-velocity and force-time curves are

very

different for the two sports and assuming that 60% " power training " is also

suitable for weightlifting movements neglects this fact. There are no top

lifters

in the world who rely to a significant extent on 60% 1RM training. Remember,

too,

that power snatches and power cleans should be done in moderation, since they do

not generally improve one's snatches and cleans. Mel Siff]

Iain Murray

Aberdeen, Scotland