RE: Rheumatoid Factor/Numbers?/links/

[Guest guest]

Just want to give great thanks for those links you sent! I am one of those

people who is constantly testing negative for the RA factor and yet have

lots of the symptoms. Family history of testing negative too, so I just

haven't put much faith in those tests. Nice to know that maybe they aren't

what they are cracked up to be (the results can have several explainations)

and maybe my dr will do the same. Would be nice though if they could find a

test that what ease the minds of some of these " textbook " drs.

Others that read this that are confused as I usually am...I am not saying

these tests are bad, just that maybe drs. shouldn't treat them like they are

the " Holy Grail " for RA. JMO.

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

Some links on RF:

http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE56.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003548.htm

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/se024700.htm

http://www.medmedia.com/oo3/122.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi …

this little blurb might help you find some answers….

Diagnosis of RA can be difficult, because there is no one particular

test that definitively confirms RA. Symptoms and lab findings of RA can

be similar to those of other diseases. Therefore, the patient's family

history, symptoms and signs along with lab results are used in

diagnosing RA.

X-rays are not really diagnostic in early stages of the disease

because of the absence of apparent bone damage. However, X-rays can be

used in later stages of the disease to help the doctor monitor disease

progression. According to the American Rheumatism Association, there are

eleven criteria for diagnosing RA. Seven of the eleven are required for

diagnosis of classic RA, five for definitive RA, three for probable RA.

Four laboratory findings included in these criteria are positive serum

tests for rheumatoid factor, poor mucin clotting of synovial fluid,

characteristic histologic changes in synovium, and characteristic

histologic changes in rheumatoid nodules [3]. Synovial fluid can have a

turbid appearance which reflects an increase white blood cell count.

The white blood cell count reflects the degree of inflammation. An

elevated erythrocyte sedimentation rate and an increase in serum levels

of C-reactive protein (CRP) also indicate the presence of an

inflammatory response [4]. People with RA have increased levels of

alpha-1 and alpha-2 globulins which are acute phase reactants involved

in the inflammatory response. Mucin clots in the synovial fluid can

have decreased viscosity due to a decrease in hyaluronic acid [1]. Also,

patients may have moderate normocytic hypochromic anemia with decreased

serum iron, normal total iron-binding capacity, and normal iron stores

[3]. Another important test is the detection of rheumatoid factor.

Rheumatoid factor is usually detected serologically. The slide

agglutination test is used only for screening, and positives should be

confirmed using nephelometry or the ELISA method to measure rheumatoid

factor titers. In RA, titers are often 1:640 to 1:5120. Titers in

conditions other than RA are usually <1:80 [4]. However, the absence of

rheumatoid factor does not rule out the presence of RA. Rheumatoid

factor can also be present in people with syphilis, leprosy, and other

inflammatory conditions. Approximately 10-50% of patients with RA also

have low titers of antinuclear antibodies (ANAs) [1].

Good Luck

PS both my husband and I are sero negative RA….

Sincerely

Sam

RE: [ ] Rheumatoid Factor/Numbers?/links/

Just want to give great thanks for those links you sent! I am one of

those

people who is constantly testing negative for the RA factor and yet have

lots of the symptoms. Family history of testing negative too, so I just

haven't put much faith in those tests. Nice to know that maybe they

aren't

what they are cracked up to be (the results can have several

explainations)

and maybe my dr will do the same. Would be nice though if they could

find a

test that what ease the minds of some of these " textbook " drs.

Others that read this that are confused as I usually am...I am not

saying

these tests are bad, just that maybe drs. shouldn't treat them like they

are

the " Holy Grail " for RA. JMO.

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

Some links on RF:

http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE56.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003548.htm

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/se024700.htm

http://www.medmedia.com/oo3/122.htm

[Guest guest]

Hello there, ! You're so welcome for the links.

It is maddening to have so many symptoms and have so little or no

laboratory evidence to back them up. They are working on different, more

specific tests for the various rheumatic diseases, but I wish they would

hurry up and get them out there.

I don't think it's a problem to refer to the tests as " bad. " I do! I had

a very knowledgeable rheumatologist/researcher whose expertise is RA

admit to me that the current diagnostic tests for RA are, at best,

" crude. " Many physicians are frustrated, too.

You really do need a physician who will think out of the box (out of the

test tube?). Too many times the physicians themselves don't understand

these tests and their implications or lack thereof. They forget that the

patient's history and evolving clinical picture should be the focus.

Rheumatology is definitely an art, not a science. No wonder so many

patients are confused and frustrated - not enough artists out there.

How many other people in your family have immune system problems?

RE: [ ] Rheumatoid Factor/Numbers?/links/

>

>

> Just want to give great thanks for those links you sent! I am one of

those

> people who is constantly testing negative for the RA factor and yet

have

> lots of the symptoms. Family history of testing negative too, so I

just

> haven't put much faith in those tests. Nice to know that maybe they

aren't

> what they are cracked up to be (the results can have several

explainations)

> and maybe my dr will do the same. Would be nice though if they could

find a

> test that what ease the minds of some of these " textbook " drs.

>

> Others that read this that are confused as I usually am...I am not

saying

> these tests are bad, just that maybe drs. shouldn't treat them like

they are

> the " Holy Grail " for RA. JMO.

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

>

> Some links on RF:

>

>

> http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE56.htm

> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003548.htm

>

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/se024700.htm

> http://www.medmedia.com/oo3/122.htm

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

also there is this blurb which gives more of the bone information in

regards to criteria of diagnosing RA

Rheumatoid Arthritis

We have met the enemy...

Most people know this form of arthritis as the 'crippling disease'

because it does just that - cripples the joints. However, rheumatoid

arthritis does not affect just the joints, it attacks other body systems

as well, including the heart, nervous system, blood and even the lungs.

Why should an arthritic disease attack other areas of the body? The

answer lies in the process that causes the joint problem - the body

suddenly does not recognize itself and forms 'antibodies' against

itself. These antibodies attack the foreign invaders (the body's own

tissues) and pretty soon the internal systems begin to crumble under the

weight of the immune attack. In essence, this is the Pogo legacy: 'We

have met the enemy and he is us.'

Joints seem to be the predominant focus of this disease. The joints most

often affected include the wrists, knees, elbows, shoulders, ankles, and

'knuckles'. Joint destruction is an early manifestation of this disease

and there is usually X-ray evidence of damage within 3 years of onset of

symptoms.

Since rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is a whole body disease, it is not

unusual for the patient to feel general fatigue, loss of appetite,

weight loss and depression. Indeed, these symptoms, along with some

initial joint pains, may be the only sign of RA's presence. Most

patients go for an average of 36 weeks before a diagnosis is made.

Mimickers

Other diseases may mimic RA and this makes it more difficult for the

physician to correctly diagnose subtle cases. Osteoarthritis, Lyme

disease, gout, even some forms of cancer can present just like RA. It is

helpful at times to be able to exclude osteoarthritis quickly. This can

sometimes be done on the first visit by the type of joint involved.

Osteoarthritis, for example, does not attack the wrists or the knuckles,

as does RA.

Diagnosis, for the most part, hinges upon common lab tests. Some

components of the blood count are deranged (mild anemia, elevated

sedimentation rate or the rate that blood sediments on standing) and

finally a rheumatoid 'factor' test (titer). While some true RA patients

will not show a positive rheumatoid factor at all, at least 70% will

show some reactivity of a significant level. This factor is actually a

test for an immunoglobulin made by the body against its own tissues.

Sometimes the joint involvement is so severe during 'flare' attacks that

physicians can obtain a sample of joint fluid for analysis that will

assist in making the diagnosis (or 'ruling out' other mimickers).

X-rays, while helpful to establish or follow joint involvement, cannot

be used to confirm this diagnosis.

*Criteria for diagnosing Rheumatoid Arthritis (after the American

College of Rheumatology)

1. Morning stiffness > 1 hour's duration

2. Arthritis of at least three joint groups with soft tissue swelling or

fluid

3. Swelling involving at least one of the following joint groups:

proximal interphalangeal, metacarpophalangeal, or wrists

4. Symmetrical joint swelling

5. Subcutaneous nodules

6. Positive rheumatoid factor test

7. Radiographic changes consistent with RA

*5 of the 7 criteria are needed to confirm the diagnosis

Hope this helps

Sincerely

Sam

RE: [ ] Rheumatoid Factor/Numbers?/links/

Just want to give great thanks for those links you sent! I am one of

those

people who is constantly testing negative for the RA factor and yet have

lots of the symptoms. Family history of testing negative too, so I just

haven't put much faith in those tests. Nice to know that maybe they

aren't

what they are cracked up to be (the results can have several

explainations)

and maybe my dr will do the same. Would be nice though if they could

find a

test that what ease the minds of some of these " textbook " drs.

Others that read this that are confused as I usually am...I am not

saying

these tests are bad, just that maybe drs. shouldn't treat them like they

are

the " Holy Grail " for RA. JMO.

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

Some links on RF:

http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE56.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003548.htm

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/se024700.htm

http://www.medmedia.com/oo3/122.htm

[Guest guest]

Sam,

What an insightful email that was...there were many thing in there that I

didn't know....I didn't realize that other body parts were effected. Such as

heart, lungs etc. That in itself is enough to scare someone. And with me, since

my Dr has been using me for his guinnea pig as far as pills go makes me wonder

what other damage has been done already. I would be curious to know if there is

any more information about this..if so please pass it along...

Thank you,

Bridgette...Maine....bridgette1959@...

" Dot.Com " <dot.communicator@...> wrote: Hi

also there is this blurb which gives more of the bone information in

regards to criteria of diagnosing RA

Rheumatoid Arthritis

We have met the enemy...

Most people know this form of arthritis as the 'crippling disease'

because it does just that - cripples the joints. However, rheumatoid

arthritis does not affect just the joints, it attacks other body systems

as well, including the heart, nervous system, blood and even the lungs.

Why should an arthritic disease attack other areas of the body? The

answer lies in the process that causes the joint problem - the body

suddenly does not recognize itself and forms 'antibodies' against

itself. These antibodies attack the foreign invaders (the body's own

tissues) and pretty soon the internal systems begin to crumble under the

weight of the immune attack. In essence, this is the Pogo legacy: 'We

have met the enemy and he is us.'

Joints seem to be the predominant focus of this disease. The joints most

often affected include the wrists, knees, elbows, shoulders, ankles, and

'knuckles'. Joint destruction is an early manifestation of this disease

and there is usually X-ray evidence of damage within 3 years of onset of

symptoms.

Since rheumatoid arthritis (RA) is a whole body disease, it is not

unusual for the patient to feel general fatigue, loss of appetite,

weight loss and depression. Indeed, these symptoms, along with some

initial joint pains, may be the only sign of RA's presence. Most

patients go for an average of 36 weeks before a diagnosis is made.

Mimickers

Other diseases may mimic RA and this makes it more difficult for the

physician to correctly diagnose subtle cases. Osteoarthritis, Lyme

disease, gout, even some forms of cancer can present just like RA. It is

helpful at times to be able to exclude osteoarthritis quickly. This can

sometimes be done on the first visit by the type of joint involved.

Osteoarthritis, for example, does not attack the wrists or the knuckles,

as does RA.

Diagnosis, for the most part, hinges upon common lab tests. Some

components of the blood count are deranged (mild anemia, elevated

sedimentation rate or the rate that blood sediments on standing) and

finally a rheumatoid 'factor' test (titer). While some true RA patients

will not show a positive rheumatoid factor at all, at least 70% will

show some reactivity of a significant level. This factor is actually a

test for an immunoglobulin made by the body against its own tissues.

Sometimes the joint involvement is so severe during 'flare' attacks that

physicians can obtain a sample of joint fluid for analysis that will

assist in making the diagnosis (or 'ruling out' other mimickers).

X-rays, while helpful to establish or follow joint involvement, cannot

be used to confirm this diagnosis.

*Criteria for diagnosing Rheumatoid Arthritis (after the American

College of Rheumatology)

1. Morning stiffness > 1 hour's duration

2. Arthritis of at least three joint groups with soft tissue swelling or

fluid

3. Swelling involving at least one of the following joint groups:

proximal interphalangeal, metacarpophalangeal, or wrists

4. Symmetrical joint swelling

5. Subcutaneous nodules

6. Positive rheumatoid factor test

7. Radiographic changes consistent with RA

*5 of the 7 criteria are needed to confirm the diagnosis

Hope this helps

Sincerely

Sam

RE: [ ] Rheumatoid Factor/Numbers?/links/

Just want to give great thanks for those links you sent! I am one of

those

people who is constantly testing negative for the RA factor and yet have

lots of the symptoms. Family history of testing negative too, so I just

haven't put much faith in those tests. Nice to know that maybe they

aren't

what they are cracked up to be (the results can have several

explainations)

and maybe my dr will do the same. Would be nice though if they could

find a

test that what ease the minds of some of these " textbook " drs.

Others that read this that are confused as I usually am...I am not

saying

these tests are bad, just that maybe drs. shouldn't treat them like they

are

the " Holy Grail " for RA. JMO.

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

Some links on RF:

http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE56.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003548.htm

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/se024700.htm

http://www.medmedia.com/oo3/122.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Bridgette

There are all kinds of sites out there that explain the RA

There are a few sites out there that www.roadback.org that treats ra

with an antibiotic protocol also....dr brown treated over 10,000 people

with this protocol...

www.rheumatic.org has the life and times of dr brown...he is now

deceased...but determined the possible root cause of these

disorders/diseases...

also this lady has written an extremely intelligent book about causes

and treatments...she was a former sufferer of ra who also took the

antibiotic protocol

http://www.ra-infection-connection.com/

I am in Canada so I get my information from www.arthritis.ca as the

drugs that are used for treatment are different than the states...

But I am sure you will find many sites...

It all depends on the protocol that your doctor chooses to treat you

with...

My husband and I have been put on the antibiotic protocol as opposed to

the biolgogics which are not yet approved for treatment in the province

I live in...

It is a time to gather information and be your own best

advocate..knowledge is vital...

Good luck

((((((((((also...the antibiotic protocol is the treatment that Kathleen

turner the actress was put on after ten years of not being

diagnosed...if you punch her into a search engine you will find her

story ))))

sincerely

samantha

RE: [ ] Rheumatoid Factor/Numbers?/links/

Just want to give great thanks for those links you sent! I am one of

those

people who is constantly testing negative for the RA factor and yet have

lots of the symptoms. Family history of testing negative too, so I just

haven't put much faith in those tests. Nice to know that maybe they

aren't

what they are cracked up to be (the results can have several

explainations)

and maybe my dr will do the same. Would be nice though if they could

find a

test that what ease the minds of some of these " textbook " drs.

Others that read this that are confused as I usually am...I am not

saying

these tests are bad, just that maybe drs. shouldn't treat them like they

are

the " Holy Grail " for RA. JMO.

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

Some links on RF:

http://www.fpnotebook.com/RHE56.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003548.htm

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/se024700.htm

http://www.medmedia.com/oo3/122.htm

[Guest guest]

First let me say that I was afraid that I was in one of my nasty

moods.....we all know those! LOL ....and just blowing off some steam.

Guess I'm not the only one frustrated with these tests that seems to go no

where. Good to know.

Oh how many people in my family have arthritis......at least 8 (couple have

passed in the last 10 years) and as sibs and cousins tend to age they are

getting hit with it too. Some have been lucky and only have mild forms, the

rest of us seem to get hit hard. A few of us have been hit with it before

hitting the age of 21. This mess is definitely in the family. So far there

is RA, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis and psoriasis arthritis. (Please forgive

spellings)

My rheumy has the family history, but tends to ignore it. He checks the

last visit and goes from there. Not very thorough, but then again there

aren't many rheumys around here to compare him to and I just dread having to

travel for a couple of hours to go to someone different.

Like you I DO hope they come up with some better tests and soon, but until

then I guess we just question everything they do.

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

It is maddening to have so many symptoms and have so little or no

laboratory evidence to back them up. They are working on different, more

specific tests for the various rheumatic diseases, but I wish they would

hurry up and get them out there.

I don't think it's a problem to refer to the tests as " bad. " I do! I had

a very knowledgeable rheumatologist/researcher whose expertise is RA

admit to me that the current diagnostic tests for RA are, at best,

" crude. " Many physicians are frustrated, too.

You really do need a physician who will think out of the box (out of the

test tube?). Too many times the physicians themselves don't understand

these tests and their implications or lack thereof. They forget that the

patient's history and evolving clinical picture should be the focus.

Rheumatology is definitely an art, not a science. No wonder so many

patients are confused and frustrated - not enough artists out there.

How many other people in your family have immune system problems?

[Guest guest]

,

I think I hold the record for blowing off steam on this list. It is very hard

to understand how far medicine has advanced, yet something like arthritis is

still such a mystery in both diagnosing and treatment. I think we all can

understand how you feel. You're welcome to vent anytime you feel the need.

It's interesting how some families have so many members with different forms of

arthritis, clearly showing a genetic link, yet other families such as my own

have no members with it. Although they say genetics play a major role, they

also know that many with no genetic links suffer as well. I just pray that we

get answers and most of all, a cure.

a

>

>

> First let me say that I was afraid that I was in one of my nasty

> moods.....we all know those! LOL ....and just blowing off some steam.

> Guess I'm not the only one frustrated with these tests that seems to go no

> where. Good to know.

>

> Oh how many people in my family have arthritis......at least 8 (couple have

> passed in the last 10 years) and as sibs and cousins tend to age they are

> getting hit with it too. Some have been lucky and only have mild forms, the

> rest of us seem to get hit hard. A few of us have been hit with it before

> hitting the age of 21. This mess is definitely in the family. So far there

> is RA, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis and psoriasis arthritis. (Please forgive

> spellings)

>

> My rheumy has the family history, but tends to ignore it. He checks the

> last visit and goes from there. Not very thorough, but then again there

> aren't many rheumys around here to compare him to and I just dread having to

> travel for a couple of hours to go to someone different.

>

> Like you I DO hope they come up with some better tests and soon, but until

> then I guess we just question everything they do.

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@m...]

>

>