Re: Re: More bad news about diet soda

[Guest guest]

IMO, far too many variables to pin the tail on diet soda...  People need to spend less time looking for magic trees, and check out the forest... too much food and not enough physical activity is an adequate explanation for epidemic obesity..JR On Jul 25, 2007, at 11:57 AM, Rodney wrote:Hi:"My personal view is that this habit of soft drink consumption is atthe root of the dietary problems in the U.S.."Out of curiosity, what is the reasoning behind the above statement? I have no strong opinion about this, and personally rarely drink soft drinks. But people have to get their liquid intake from somewhere. Back fifty years ago there was not much obesity, and milk was widely advocated. But a litre of milk contains more calories than, for example, a litre of Coca-Cola. So it is not obvious to me that the rise in obesity stems from an increase in the consumption of calories from things that are drunk.But I am more than open to changing my mind about this.Rodney.> >> > If increased risk of osteoporosis isn't bad enough to scare you away> > from it, how about cardiac risk? They warn, however, that we should> > not infer causality from their results:> > > > www.snipurl.com/dietsoda> > > > Drinking more than one soda a day -- even if it's the sugar-free diet> > kind -- is associated with an increased incidence of metabolic> > syndrome, a cluster of risk factors linked to the development of> > diabetes and cardiovascular disease, a study finds.> > > > The link to diet soda found in the study was "striking" but not> > entirely a surprise, said Dr. Ramachandran Vasan, study senior author> > and professor of medicine at Boston University School of Medicine.> > There had been some hints of it in earlier studies, he said.> > > > "But this is the first study to show the association in a prospective> > fashion and in a large population," Vasan said.> > > > That population consisted of more than 6,000 participants in the> > Framingham Heart Study, which has been following residents of a> > Massachusetts town since 1948. When the soda portion of the study> > began, all participants were free of metabolic syndrome, a collection> > of risk factors including high blood pressure, elevated levels of the> > blood fats called triglycerides, low levels of the artery-protecting> > HDL cholesterol, high fasting blood sugar levels and excessive waist> > circumference. Metabolic syndrome is the presence of three or more of> > these risk factors.> > > > Over the four years of the study, people who consumed more than one> > soft drink of any kind a day were 44 percent more likely to develop> > metabolic syndrome than those who didn't drink a soda a day.> > > > The findings are published in the July 24 issue of the journal> > Circulation.> > > > A variety of explanations, none proven, have been proposed for the> > link between diet soft drink consumption and metabolic syndrome, Vasan> > said. That association was evident even when the researchers accounted> > for other factors, such as levels of saturated fat and fiber in the> > diet, total calorie intake, smoking and physical activity.> > > > One theory is that the high sweetness of all soft drinks makes a> > person more prone to eat sugary, fattening foods. Another is that the> > caramel content of soft drinks promotes metabolic changes that lead to> > insulin resistance. "These are hotly debated by nutritional experts,"> > Vasan said.> > > > Vasan, who noted that he is not a nutritional expert, said he leans> > toward the theory that "this is a marker of dietary behavior" -- that> > people who like to drink sweet soda also like to eat the kind of foods> > that cardiac nutritionists warn against.> > > > "But we cannot infer causality," Vasan said, meaning there is no proof> > that soda itself is the villain. "We have an association. Maybe it is> > a causal one or maybe it is a marker of something else."> > > > Carefully controlled animal studies might resolve the cause-and-effect> > issue, he said.> > > > Dr. G. Nabel, director of the U.S. National Heart, Lung, and> > Blood Institute, which funds the Framingham Heart Study, said in a> > prepared statement: "Other studies have shown that the extra calories> > and sugar in soft drinks contribute to weight gain, and therefore> > heart disease risk. This study echoes those findings by extending the> > link to all soft drinks and the metabolic syndrome."> > > > Dr. Suzanne R. Steinbaum, director of Women and Heart Disease at Lenox> > Hill Hospital in New York City, said, "There is no safe way of eating> > junk food, just as we learned the lesson from trans fats and partially> > hydrogenated oils often found in fat-free or low-fat cookies. Diet> > soda does not protect us from the development of what we are trying to> > avoid by consuming it."> >>

[Guest guest]

Well I have a “catch 22” to throw out to the group. My husband has to take BP meds. (He started having HBP when he was younger and on the thin side). The beta blockers have side effects, such as weight gain. He’s now about 30 lbs overweight due to the meds. He exercises, eats well etc (especially after having had a couple of medical “scares”). I’ve asked the doc about changing his meds to something that wouldn’t promote weight gain. But it took months of experimenting before his current group of meds brought down his bp, so the doc is reluctant to fool with it.

I have thought about this for a long time but not sure what to do about it. The excess weight unfortunately is around (where else?) the abdomen.

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From: <crjohnr@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:31:20 -0500

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: More bad news about diet soda

IMO, far too many variables to pin the tail on diet soda...  

People need to spend less time looking for magic trees, and check out the forest... 

too much food and not enough physical activity is an adequate explanation for epidemic obesity..

JR 

[Guest guest]

At 01:32 PM 7/25/2007, you wrote:

>Hi Francesca:

>

>Are you saying the BP meds are making him hungrier?

>

>Or, which I believe is the alternative, do you believe he has found

>the solution to the energy crisis? (Has discovered how to create fat

>out of energy from nowhere).

>

>As of course we all know, losing weight requires eating less (mainly)

>and/or exercising more (the latter will make a comparatively small

>difference, unless running marathons regularly).

>

>Almost all of us have trouble trying to eat less. I have been trying

>to get down to a BMI of 20·6 since last October and, what with one

>thing and another, my abdomen measurement has gone UP by an inch and

>a half. So I am still trying.

>

>What I have found over the years is that eating less suddenly becomes

>much less difficult after making little progress for the first nine

>to twelve months of trying. So for me the answer is to just keep on

>making the effort until I succeed. Which eventually I do .......

>or have historically, at least. I know others who have noticed the

>same phenomenon.

>

>For the vast majority, controlling weight is very difficult. For a

>large majority, apparently, based on the visual evidence, it is

>simply impossible. To control weight one must be able to NOT open

>the refridgerator door each time one passes, no matter how much one

>might like to.

>

>It seems to me there is no easy solution. If it was easy everyone

>would be slim. Right?

>

>Rodney.

>

>PS: Following the posts a while back about visceral fat, I am

>beginning to wonder if the ratio of abdomen circumference (measured

>at navel level) to height may be a better criterion than waist-to-

>height (waist defined as the narrowest circumference). My thought is

>that the navel circumference may somewhat better reflect visceral fat?

Sure, imo.

As far the eat-less bit, for me the critical

element is the structure of the day. Weekdays,

with the work structure, means that only the

after-work period requires a modest period of

discipline, while the weekends present 60 hours

or so of required ongoing discipline and, in

house with kids, seeming self-abnegation.

Maco

[Guest guest]

From: Rodney <perspect1111@...>

Rodney, you are a riot. No I am saying that some medications have that reputation. I don’t know if they slow down metabolism, hold more water in the body or what. Looking at pictures of my husband a few years ago, he was fit and trim. He tells me what he eats when away from home and I believe him. It’s hard to believe that his diet accounts for the excess weight.

You may recall that recently when the list was discussing my sleep problem, a health professional posted that one recommended drug (Remeron) was to be taken with caution because it caused weight gain. (BTW I sometimes take very small doses of Remeron to help me sleep and have not noticed weight gain – but I do mean small doses – 1/4 to 1/2 pill).

My own weight holds steady at 110 pounds (BMI of about 19). I have not counted calories for a long time now since my weight rarely fluctuates – but I do weigh myself every morning.

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Reply-< >

Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:32:18 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: More bad news about diet soda

Hi Francesca:

Are you saying the BP meds are making him hungrier?

Or, which I believe is the alternative, do you believe he has found

the solution to the energy crisis? (Has discovered how to create fat

out of energy from nowhere).

[Guest guest]

Try Risperadal, an anti-psychotic as an example for wieght gain problems. Wife went from 120 at 5 Foot 4 inches and ballooned up to 180 in a matter of months.

Since I am around her 24/7, I seen her eat on average maybe 500 kal per day. She was have great difficulty eating due to other med issues but I kept up the mult-vits and other suppliments to keeep her alive until finally properly diagnosed. Risperadol was a big med mistake for her, then of course Paxil (the doctor thought that the immense pain she had was all in her head). Thank god thats over with along with the emerg op that was required to correct the problem.

cheers majere---------a follower of this site for many years

[ ] Re: More bad news about diet soda Hi Francesca:Are you saying the BP meds are making him hungrier?Or, which I believe is the alternative, do you believe he has found the solution to the energy crisis? (Has discovered how to create fat out of energy from nowhere).

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007, majere@... wrote:

> Try Risperadal, an anti-psychotic as an example for wieght gain problems.

Wife went from 120 at 5 Foot 4 inches and ballooned up to 180 in a matter of

months.

>

> Since I am around her 24/7, I seen her eat on average maybe 500 kal per day.

She was have great difficulty eating due to other med issues but I kept up the

mult-vits and other suppliments to keeep her alive until finally properly

diagnosed. Risperadol was a big med mistake for her, then of course Paxil (the

doctor thought that the immense pain she had was all in her head). Thank god

thats over with along with the emerg op that was required to correct the

problem.

>

There is absolutely no way one could gain 60 pounds of fat over " a matter of

months " on 500kcal a day.

A quick search online gives a pound of fat as being ~3500kcal.

Call " a matter of months " to be, say, 6 months...

(60lb * 3500)/180 means around 1200kcal a day being stored in fat and not used

at all.

Even extend that to a year and you are still nowhere near 500kcal.

No one has a negative metabolism.