Re: Yoga helps us keep fit

[Guest guest]

>> A

> recent article in Yoga Journal references studies

> that indicate that yoga seems to help with

> cardiorespiratory fitness, muscular fitness,

> flexibility and body composition. The article can be

> found here:

> http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfm

I read the article and didnt see the actual references

for the study them mention. Do you know of them?

Also, from the article.. (With my comments)

the study they " mention " was on 10 students.

Also, Yoga, per see, has no standard definition, and

is actually mis used in the USA. Yoga means " union "

and refers to a philosohpy that is based on the eight

" limbs " or steps prescribed in the second pada of the

Yoga Sutras of Patanjli

What is mostly promoted today as Yoga, is actually

only one branch of yoga, called Hatha Yoga and/or the

" asanas " .

There are also many many forms of hatha yoga, some

being very gentle, and some being very vigorous and

some requiring strength.

This all has to be defined. IN additon, the poses

they are talking about in the study, the warrior, are

also very difficult. Especailly for your typical obese

out of shape american. Many people are unable to do

shoulderstands, headstands and bridges. And, these

may be contra-indicated for many also.

From the article.

>>Given all this evidence, can you now confidently

tell your nonyogi friends they're wrong when they

insist that you should add other forms of exercise to

your practice?

Maybe, maybe not. The answer depends largely on how

much you dedicate yourself to yoga. Studies done on

yoga have included more than an hour of practice two

to four days a week. The yoga sessions included

breathwork and meditation in addition to typical yoga

poses.

Finally, the asanas used in these studies included not

just aerobically challenging sequences, like Sun

Salutations, but also many strengthening poses, like

Virabhadrasana (Warrior Pose), Vrksasana (Tree Pose),

Trikonasana (Triangle Pose), Adho Mukha Svanasana

(Downward-Facing Dog Pose), Navasana (Boat Pose),

Sarvangasana (Shoulderstand), Setu Bandha Sarvangasana

(Bridge Pose), and Plank.

So if you want to become and stay physically and

mentally fit, make sure your yoga practice includes a

balance of poses that build strength, stamina, and

flexibility, along with breathwork and meditation to

help develop body awareness. In particular, include a

series of standing poses in your practice. As your

practice expands, Schumacher suggests adding more

challenging asanas such as balancing poses and

inversions. " If you are just doing 15 minutes of

gentle yoga stretches three to four times a week, you

will also need to do some other form of exercise to

stay fit, " Schumacher readily admits. " I often tell my

beginning students that they will need to do something

in addition to yoga for a while until they can

practice more vigorously. "

I think the bottom line is that even if you practice

yoga (Hatha) as your only form of exercise, it has to

be done in a way that causes the body to be challanged

in regard to resistance training and aerobic training

also.

Then we are back to semantics. Is the name the path

or the goal?

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Arturo,Yoga has changed my life.  I am almost 69 and am interested in longevity, but want to also maintain the physical and emotional balance and flexibility.  No one is too old for yoga and I think that combined with limiting calories and doing the meditation part of yoga is the way of the future.There are many types of yoga and anyone interested should try different types and different instructors.  Also, it is non-competitive, so don't pay attention to the young size 2's who can twist into a pretzel.  You may be able to do some things they can't.MJOn Aug 11, 2007, at 10:01 AM, Arturo Veve wrote:AllBill mentioned the importance to giving exercise to all of the muscles in the body. A good way to do that, in particular as we age, is to do yoga. A recent article in Yoga Journal references studies that indicate that yoga seems to help with cardiorespiratory fitness, muscular fitness, flexibility and body composition. The article can be found here: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfmCheers,Arturo

[Guest guest]

Please tell us more how yoga has changed your life.

I too am a yoga practitioner. But I can’t say that it “has changed my life”. I use a wonderful tape called “Yoga, mind and Body”. I’ve tried other tapes but can’t find another (to vary my routine and not get bored with the same thing over and over) that I like as much.

I have taken a few classes but prefer the freedom of doing it at home at a time of my own choosing.

From: M J Mannino <mjm1@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:49:41 -0700

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Yoga helps us keep fit

Arturo,

Yoga has changed my life.  I am almost 69 and am interested in longevity, but want to also maintain the physical and emotional balance and flexibility.  No one is too old for yoga and I think that combined with limiting calories and doing the meditation part of yoga is the way of the future.

There are many types of yoga and anyone interested should try different types and different instructors.  Also, it is non-competitive, so don't pay attention to the young size 2's who can twist into a pretzel.  You may be able to do some things they can't.

MJ

..

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

I have no problem with yoga. I took one yoga class about thirty

years ago to find out what it was about. And if I ever find I have

troubling, persistent, joint or muscle pain I will definitely try

yoga to see if it helps, expecting that it will.

However, on the other side of the ledger consider the following:

A) Cardiologist Dr. Henry 's advice that: " ... fitness has

absolutely nothing to do with health ...... " so who cares (imo)

whether yoga, or anything else, makes a person athletically 'fit'?

(But I will qualify the above statement by saying there is a note on

the topic of 'exercise' in the files here with which I unreservedly

agree, lol)

Has anyone ever seen a study which examined the health

experiences and lifespans of yogis? At the same time I did the yoga

class I spent some time trying to track down such information. I no

longer remember the sources I found, but I came away with the

impression that yogis were usually pretty much disease-free until

they died, compared with the population average, **but lived no

longer than average**.

I am not asking anyone to accept this on my say so. If you know of

serious (using the criteria regularly used here to define the

term 'serious') published research which provides more recent

information than the stuff I read a very long time ago, please post

it.

But in the meantime I will assume that for those on CR, with no aches

and pains, and following the suggestions in the files as regards

exercise, yoga may not provide additional physical benefits, and will

not extend lifespan. Meditation, specifically, may well have

benefits, but those would not be physical benefits.

Rodney.

>

> All

> Bill mentioned the importance to giving exercise to all of the

muscles in the body. A good way to do that, in particular as we age,

is to do yoga. A recent article in Yoga Journal references studies

that indicate that yoga seems to help with cardiorespiratory fitness,

muscular fitness, flexibility and body composition. The article can

be found here: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfm

> Cheers,

> Arturo

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff

I enjoyed your talk. I watched a third of it with plans to watch the remainder

the next day, but it went offline already. I learned a lot about label reading,

thanks. Also it's nice to see you have a great blog. I'll visit often. I'll

place a link to it in mine.

With regards to yoga, there was mention of studies, albeit not exceedingly

scientific. One of the yoga teachers conducting studies, Dina Amsterdam, lives

here in the SF Bay area. We practitioners hope that with all of the

participation in yoga by celebrities, more funding will go into analyzing its

benefits.

Regarding warrior pose, a very famous teacher, Beryl Bender Birch, who has been

teaching over thirty years, said that regardless of the age of a new student,

she always has them start with the warrior poses -the Surya Namaskaras 1 and 2.

Even if a person is 80 years old and just starting, she will have them start

with these poses. There are always substitutions.

There are many forms of yoga, but delving into differentiating them can be quite

confusing and would not be appropriate discussion on the list. I do traditional

ashtanga, which is the vigorous, energetic kind. One person in the article

mentions that with her practice she does not need any other fitness routine. But

anyone can do yoga and any type is helpful. If a position is difficult, there

are substitutions. The article makes mention that there are more studies on the

benefits of Tai Chi than studies on yoga. From personal experience I have seen a

lot of elderly people being taught Tai Chi, which helps with coordination and

movement. In my opinion, if you're doing yoga already as you age, you are

getting similar benefits.

By the way, I'm an architect, not a yoga teacher, but I'm dedicated to my

practice.

Cheers,

Arturo

----------------------------

Re: Yoga helps us keep fit

Posted by: " Jeff Novick " chefjeff40@... chefjeff40

Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:45 am (PST)

I read the article and didnt see the actual references

for the study them mention. Do you know of them?

Also, from the article.. (With my comments)

the study they " mention " was on 10 students.

Also, Yoga, per see, has no standard definition, and

is actually mis used in the USA. Yoga means " union "

and refers to a philosohpy that is based on the eight

" limbs " or steps prescribed in the second pada of the

Yoga Sutras of Patanjli

What is mostly promoted today as Yoga, is actually

only one branch of yoga, called Hatha Yoga and/or the

" asanas " .

There are also many many forms of hatha yoga, some

being very gentle, and some being very vigorous and

some requiring strength.

This all has to be defined. IN additon, the poses

they are talking about in the study, the warrior, are

also very difficult. Especailly for your typical obese

out of shape american. Many people are unable to do

shoulderstands, headstands and bridges. And, these

may be contra-indicated for many also.

From the article.

>>Given all this evidence, can you now confidently

tell your nonyogi friends they're wrong when they

insist that you should add other forms of exercise to

your practice?

Maybe, maybe not. The answer depends largely on how

much you dedicate yourself to yoga. Studies done on

yoga have included more than an hour of practice two

to four days a week. The yoga sessions included

breathwork and meditation in addition to typical yoga

poses.

Finally, the asanas used in these studies included not

just aerobically challenging sequences, like Sun

Salutations, but also many strengthening poses, like

Virabhadrasana (Warrior Pose), Vrksasana (Tree Pose),

Trikonasana (Triangle Pose), Adho Mukha Svanasana

(Downward-Facing Dog Pose), Navasana (Boat Pose),

Sarvangasana (Shoulderstand), Setu Bandha Sarvangasana

(Bridge Pose), and Plank.

So if you want to become and stay physically and

mentally fit, make sure your yoga practice includes a

balance of poses that build strength, stamina, and

flexibility, along with breathwork and meditation to

help develop body awareness. In particular, include a

series of standing poses in your practice. As your

practice expands, Schumacher suggests adding more

challenging asanas such as balancing poses and

inversions. " If you are just doing 15 minutes of

gentle yoga stretches three to four times a week, you

will also need to do some other form of exercise to

stay fit, " Schumacher readily admits. " I often tell my

beginning students that they will need to do something

in addition to yoga for a while until they can

practice more vigorously. "

I think the bottom line is that even if you practice

yoga (Hatha) as your only form of exercise, it has to

be done in a way that causes the body to be challanged

in regard to resistance training and aerobic training

also.

Then we are back to semantics. Is the name the path

or the goal?

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

A partial answer is this.. Rodney, do you feel any " stiffer " at 60+

then you did at 18? Is your movement as fluid and " effortless " as an

18 yr old? Can you reach down to the floor as far as you could as a

high school student? Can you rotate your neck as far to look behind you?

Collagen, a main constituent of connective tissue that surrounds the

joints and holds them together tends toward greater " cross-linking "

with aging. This cross-linking makes joints stiffer and limits

movement. Stretching this connective tissue on a regular basis

inhibits this cross-linking, maintaining more elasticity of the

connective tissue properties.

For instance, the elbow joint stiffens quickly in a casted arm for a

fracture. When the cast is removed some 6 weeks or so later the elbow

feels noticeably stiffer, this due to the cross-linking process.

Yoga effectively applies slight tension in a systematic fashion to the

connective tissue surrounding many of the joints. Results in a

healthier joint and connective tissue.

Another specific example are the vertebral discs of the spinal column.

Intervertebral discs have no blood supply and rely on diffusion of

nutrients. Deliberate movement of the spine results in repeated

squeezing and releasing of the disc which facilitates diffusion of the

nutrients throughout the discs.

So for joint " fitness " yoga (or systematic stretching) is very helpful

for maintaining or managing the mechanical aspect of aging. CRON

likely may help here too but to what extent? But here mechanical

stretching is proven to help.

> >

> > All

> > Bill mentioned the importance to giving exercise to all of the

> muscles in the body. A good way to do that, in particular as we age,

> is to do yoga. A recent article in Yoga Journal references studies

> that indicate that yoga seems to help with cardiorespiratory fitness,

> muscular fitness, flexibility and body composition. The article can

> be found here: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfm

> > Cheers,

> > Arturo

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill:

Thank you for those interesting descriptive comments about how yoga

benefits joints.

To answer your questions about how I compare physically with when I

was 18, I notice only two things that are different. First, at age

18, even if I hadn't taken any exercise for a year, I would have had

little difficulty jogging five miles non-stop. That is no longer

true. So my endurance capacity is undoubtedly much reduced from what

it was. Second, I now need reading glasses. I didn't need any kind

of glasses at age 18.

Apart from those two items I do not notice anything else that is

different. Of course I have never measured/recorded any of the items

you mention, so there may have been changes below my perception level.

Do you know of any yoga eye exercises? ; ^ )))

Rodney.

> > >

> > > All

> > > Bill mentioned the importance to giving exercise to all of the

> > muscles in the body. A good way to do that, in particular as we

age,

> > is to do yoga. A recent article in Yoga Journal references

studies

> > that indicate that yoga seems to help with cardiorespiratory

fitness,

> > muscular fitness, flexibility and body composition. The article

can

> > be found here: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfm

> > > Cheers,

> > > Arturo

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

well then you have nothing to worry about. when you are 105 you'll

still have the range of motion of a child

> > > >

> > > > All

> > > > Bill mentioned the importance to giving exercise to all of the

> > > muscles in the body. A good way to do that, in particular as we

> age,

> > > is to do yoga. A recent article in Yoga Journal references

> studies

> > > that indicate that yoga seems to help with cardiorespiratory

> fitness,

> > > muscular fitness, flexibility and body composition. The article

> can

> > > be found here: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfm

> > > > Cheers,

> > > > Arturo

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga instructors, as she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has taught since 1972. She is 5'6" and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is the mother of three children.

Her web site is at www.yogaone.com

She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back is one of her best.

Sincerely,

LelaGet a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill:

I very much doubt it. But who knows, given the current rate of

advance of medical knowledge ............... 4000 new papers added

to PubMed daily, five days a week.

Rodney.

> > > >

> > > > Hi folks:

> > > >

> > > > I have no problem with yoga. I took one yoga class about

thirty

> > > > years ago to find out what it was about. And if I ever find

I

> > have

> > > > troubling, persistent, joint or muscle pain I will definitely

try

> > > > yoga to see if it helps, expecting that it will.

> > > >

> > > > However, on the other side of the ledger consider the

following:

> > > >

> > > > A) Cardiologist Dr. Henry 's advice that: " ...

fitness

> > has

> > > > absolutely nothing to do with health ...... " so who cares

(imo)

> > > > whether yoga, or anything else, makes a person

athletically 'fit'?

> > > >

> > > > (But I will qualify the above statement by saying there is a

note

> > on

> > > > the topic of 'exercise' in the files here with which I

> > unreservedly

> > > > agree, lol)

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone ever seen a study which examined the health

> > > > experiences and lifespans of yogis? At the same time I did

the

> > yoga

> > > > class I spent some time trying to track down such

information. I

> > no

> > > > longer remember the sources I found, but I came away with the

> > > > impression that yogis were usually pretty much disease-free

until

> > > > they died, compared with the population average, **but lived

no

> > > > longer than average**.

> > > >

> > > > I am not asking anyone to accept this on my say so. If you

know

> > of

> > > > serious (using the criteria regularly used here to define the

> > > > term 'serious') published research which provides more recent

> > > > information than the stuff I read a very long time ago,

please

> > post

> > > > it.

> > > >

> > > > But in the meantime I will assume that for those on CR, with

no

> > aches

> > > > and pains, and following the suggestions in the files as

regards

> > > > exercise, yoga may not provide additional physical benefits,

and

> > will

> > > > not extend lifespan. Meditation, specifically, may well have

> > > > benefits, but those would not be physical benefits.

> > > >

> > > > Rodney.

> > > >

> > > > --- In , Arturo Veve <volae@>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > All

> > > > > Bill mentioned the importance to giving exercise to all of

the

> > > > muscles in the body. A good way to do that, in particular as

we

> > age,

> > > > is to do yoga. A recent article in Yoga Journal references

> > studies

> > > > that indicate that yoga seems to help with cardiorespiratory

> > fitness,

> > > > muscular fitness, flexibility and body composition. The

article

> > can

> > > > be found here: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/739_1.cfm

> > > > > Cheers,

> > > > > Arturo

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lela, or Bill, or anyone:

Is there an argument here for using yoga as preventive medicine,

including for people who are not aware of having any issues that the

physical aspects of yoga might benefit? Are there studies that seem

to suggest such benefits?

There are only so many hours in a day. By the standards of the

overwhleming majority of the population I already devote a grossly

excessive amount of time to health matters. So I am reluctant to

increase this by spending more time on something the benefits of

which I am quite uncertain about.

As noted, I am not averse to yoga in principle. Just unsure how much

benefit it might be to me.

It does seem clear to me that in terms of general health and

lifespan, CRON is far and away ahead of yoga (unless someone can

provide studies showing otherwise). And CRON greatly reduces

inflammation (as indicated by CRP etc.) which seems to be closely

related to deterioration in joints, as well as many other illnesses

also.

Rodney.

>

> I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga

instructors, as

> she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has

taught since

> 1972. She is 5'6 " and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is

the mother of

> three children.

> Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (http://www.yogaone.com)

> She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back

is one of

> her best.

> Sincerely,

> Lela

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

[Guest guest]

Quality of life Rodney, quality of life.

Just as many on this list find other exercise adds to their Q of Life.

I started yoga hoping for sleep benefits, for example. (although it doesn’t really help).

From: Rodney <perspect1111@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:35:45 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: Yoga helps us keep fit

Hi Lela, or Bill, or anyone:

Is there an argument here for using yoga as preventive medicine,

including for people who are not aware of having any issues that the

physical aspects of yoga might benefit? Are there studies that seem

to suggest such benefits?

There are only so many hours in a day. By the standards of the

overwhleming majority of the population I already devote a grossly

excessive amount of time to health matters. So I am reluctant to

increase this by spending more time on something the benefits of

which I am quite uncertain about.

As noted, I am not averse to yoga in principle. Just unsure how much

benefit it might be to me.

It does seem clear to me that in terms of general health and

lifespan, CRON is far and away ahead of yoga (unless someone can

provide studies showing otherwise). And CRON greatly reduces

inflammation (as indicated by CRP etc.) which seems to be closely

related to deterioration in joints, as well as many other illnesses

also.

Rodney.

>

> I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga

instructors, as

> she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has

taught since

> 1972. She is 5'6 " and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is

the mother of

> three children.

> Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (http://www.yogaone.com)

> She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back

is one of

> her best.

> Sincerely,

> Lela

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Arturo

Thanks. There have been problms with the video but

should be working. Maybe try again.

Hope i didnt sound to negative about yoga, as I think

it is of value, I just think there is much confusion

and was trying to point that out.

I dont think someone laying around doing a few easy

poses is the same as someone doing a very vigorous

routine and there will be different benefits. So to

say yoga is beneficial, we need to define what we mean

by yoga. ts kind of like saying " exercise builds

muscle " . Well, only some exercise builds muscle.

Its the same issue i have with the broad brush

negative sweep of hi carb diets. Which hi carb diets?

It seems we (the CRONies) are the nit pickers when it

comes to evidence, so I think we should also look at

this info in the same light.

I dont know of many (If any) well done studies on

yoga. A few small ones but not many

Also, in regard to other comments about yoga and

mental health, there are good studies on Aerobic

exercise and depression, but not really on yoga.

In regard to " flexibility " i beleive most of the loss

of flexibility can be maintained by simply doing ROM

(Range of motion) exercises and not neccessarily

" stretching " . Part of the problem is people stop

moving their body thru its full range of motion. A

good set of calisthenics, done properly, can not only

aerobic, but also can move every muscle/joint thru its

full range of motion.

I practice meditation and some yoga and enjoy it and

find it beneficial. I just dont think the benefit that

is being proposed is unique to yoga.

For yoga to have aerobic benefit, the yoga has to be

done aerobically.

Regards

Jeff

PS do you know a yoga teacher/student in SF named Tom

Billings?

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

Often when people give 'quality of life' as a reason for doing

something they do not specify how it is exactly that they perceive

the quality of their life to be improved.

If one simply really enjoys the activity, that would be enough

reason. " Enjoy playing soccer " for example. Or, " makes me feel

better throughout the day " . Or, " feel less tired in the evenings " .

Or, " I get a euphoric high when running " may be the case for some

people? Or sleeping better, as you suggested.

But just simply saying " quality of life " with no further explanation

doesn't communicate very effectively to me. In general I find time

spent in exercise that is vigorous enough to be likely to have

significant health benefits to be arduous and boring. So I need to

be persuaded about what the benefits are supposed to be if I am going

to muster the motivation to do it.

Arduous and boring activities do not generally improve my perception

of my quality of life. And less arduous, more enjoyable, activities

may not confer much benefit to people already on CRON, as seemed to

be found in an experiment with rats posted here a few months ago.

Just my take.

It would be helpful if those who find their quality of life to be

improved by exercise would post and tell us the type of exercise and

the type of improvements in QOL that they perceive.

Rodney.

> >

> > I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga

> instructors, as

> > she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has

> taught since

> > 1972. She is 5'6 " and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is

> the mother of

> > three children.

> > Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (http://www.yogaone.com)

> > She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back

> is one of

> > her best.

> > Sincerely,

> > Lela

> >

> >

> >

> > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the

all-

> new AOL at

> > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rodney I'm not making any earth-shaking claim here. I want to maintain

a certain " athleticism " into advancing age. For example, with regard

to my stretching, I wish to maintain a youthful gait. To be able to

continue to bend over to place the palm of my hands flat on the floor.

Reaching above my head i want full shoulder extension, not a 40

degrees less that I invariably see in most seniors. I want to be able

to bend and twist at the waist with ease, not move like there is a

rigid pole up my spine as most seniors do. Apparently, the mechanical

aspects of life are much less significant to you. You don't seem to

care how you move from place to place just that you stay alive to get

there

You seem to think CRON is enough? You made some vague reference to CRP

and mechanical joint health. You ask for definitive evidence of the

benefits of exercise (stretching, yoga) on the mechanical function of

joints, which it directly accesses, but on the other hand you are so

willing to accept the effects of CRON pathways on the joint which are

much more vague and ill-defined.

Would you post the study(s) demonstrating the effect of CRON on

preservation of mechanical joint function into aging? I'd like to read

them.

At 90, I want the movement of a dancer many years younger. I want

their flexibility, their balance, their strength of posture. How my

body moves through space is important to me. To manipulate my body

thru space with ease, I don't want the stiff movement dynamics of a

" zombie " . (For want of a better word LOL )

So, nothing earth-shaking here. Just not willing to place my entire

bet on ill-defined CRON pathways to preserve my physical ability.

As Jeff Novick so aptly noted, may not be much more than simply

systematically placing all joints through a full range of motion.

Doesn't take much time once you get hang of it

> >

> > I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga

> instructors, as

> > she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has

> taught since

> > 1972. She is 5'6 " and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is

> the mother of

> > three children.

> > Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (http://www.yogaone.com)

> > She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back

> is one of

> > her best.

> > Sincerely,

> > Lela

> >

> >

> >

> > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

> new AOL at

> > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just out of curiosity, I did a PubMed search of studies involving

yoga. I found several, including these two-- one of which describes a

proposed source for the feeling of well being that yoga induces. The

other describes a reduced basal metabolic rate in practitioners of

yoga. The second study was conducted by an institute of yoga, so may

be viewed as biased.

--Diane

Feeling of Well Being:

Effects of Hatha yoga and Omkar meditation on cardiorespiratory

performance, psychologic profile, and melatonin secretion.

Harinath K, Malhotra AS, Pal K, Prasad R, Kumar R, Kain TC, Rai L,

Sawhney RC.

Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences, Timarpur, Delhi,

India.

OBJECTIVES: To evaluate effects of Hatha yoga and Omkar meditation on

cardiorespiratory performance, psychologic profile, and melatonin

secretion. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: Thirty healthy men in the age group

of 25-35 years volunteered for the study. They were randomly divided

in two groups of 15 each. Group 1 subjects served as controls and

performed body flexibility exercises for 40 minutes and slow running

for 20 minutes during morning hours and played games for 60 minutes

during evening hours daily for 3 months. Group 2 subjects practiced

selected yogic asanas (postures) for 45 minutes and pranayama for 15

minutes during the morning, whereas during the evening hours these

subjects performed preparatory yogic postures for 15 minutes,

pranayama for 15 minutes, and meditation for 30 minutes daily, for 3

months. Orthostatic tolerance, heart rate, blood pressure, respiratory

rate, dynamic lung function (such as forced vital capacity, forced

expiratory volume in 1 second, forced expiratory volume percentage,

peak expiratory flow rate, and maximum voluntary ventilation), and

psychologic profile were measured before and after 3 months of yogic

practices. Serial blood samples were drawn at various time intervals

to study effects of these yogic practices and Omkar meditation on

melatonin levels. RESULTS: Yogic practices for 3 months resulted in an

improvement in cardiorespiratory performance and psychologic profile.

The plasma melatonin also showed an increase after three months of

yogic practices. The systolic blood pressure, diastolic blood

pressure, mean arterial pressure, and orthostatic tolerance did not

show any significant correlation with plasma melatonin. However, the

maximum night time melatonin levels in yoga group showed a significant

correlation (r = 0.71, p < 0.05) with well-being score.

CONCLUSION: These observations suggest that yogic practices can be

used as psychophysiologic stimuli to increase endogenous secretion of

melatonin, which, in turn, might be responsible for improved sense of

well-being.

Lower Basal Metabolic Rate:

The effect of long term combined yoga practice on the basal metabolic

rate of healthy adults.

MS, Kurpad AV, Nagendra HR, Nagarathna R.

Department of Life Sciences, Swami Vivekananda Yoga Research

foundation, No 19, Eknath Bhavan, Gavipuram circle, Bangalore-560019,

India. chayapu@...

BACKGROUND: Different procedures practiced in yoga have stimulatory or

inhibitory effects on the basal metabolic rate when studied acutely.

In daily life however, these procedures are usually practiced in

combination. The purpose of the present study was to investigate the

net change in the basal metabolic rate (BMR) of individuals actively

engaging in a combination of yoga practices (asana or yogic postures,

meditation and pranayama or breathing exercises) for a minimum period

of six months, at a residential yoga education and research center at

Bangalore. METHODS: The measured BMR of individuals practicing yoga

through a combination of practices was compared with that of control

subjects who did not practice yoga but led similar lifestyles.

RESULTS: The BMR of the yoga practitioners was significantly lower

than that of the non-yoga group, and was lower by about 13 % when

adjusted for body weight (P < 0.001). This difference persisted when

the groups were stratified by gender; however, the difference in BMR

adjusted for body weight was greater in women than men (about 8 and

18% respectively). In addition, the mean BMR of the yoga group was

significantly lower than their predicted values, while the mean BMR of

non-yoga group was comparable with their predicted values derived from

1985 WHO/FAO/UNU predictive equations.

CONCLUSION: This study shows that there is a significantly reduced

BMR, probably linked to reduced arousal, with the long term practice

of yoga using a combination of stimulatory and inhibitory yogic practices.

[Guest guest]

i'm a lurker here, a novice (about 8 months) at both cron (i'm one of the ones attempting it on an all vegan, mostly raw diet... so far so good)and yoga (3 months) actually.

finally a question that i feel qualified to answer.

how does exercise, yoga in particular improve my quality of life:

yoga (the physicality, breathing, and the meditation parts of it) is my second favorite way to de-stress. i have increased my balance, flexibility and strength all of which makes me feel better about myself and improves my first favorite way of stress relief (sex). if that is not enough of quality of life improvement, i can see the difference in my muscle tone (i used to strength train 4x a week, since yoga, i've dropped to 2x a week) and i love this look.

all this in 3 months of 50 minutes 4 times a week. i am looking forward to becoming even more proficient. i get a yoga high that i don't get with other exercise like pilates for example. But I do get a high of a similar in intensity when i hike but not that undercurrent of tranquility.

-keda

On 8/13/07, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

Hi Francesca:Often when people give 'quality of life' as a reason for doing something they do not specify how it is exactly that they perceive the quality of their life to be improved.If one simply really enjoys the activity, that would be enough reason. " Enjoy playing soccer " for example. Or, " makes me feel better throughout the day " . Or, " feel less tired in the evenings " . Or, " I get a euphoric high when running " may be the case for some people? Or sleeping better, as you suggested.But just simply saying " quality of life " with no further explanation doesn't communicate very effectively to me. In general I find time spent in exercise that is vigorous enough to be likely to have significant health benefits to be arduous and boring. So I need to be persuaded about what the benefits are supposed to be if I am going to muster the motivation to do it.Arduous and boring activities do not generally improve my perception of my quality of life. And less arduous, more enjoyable, activities may not confer much benefit to people already on CRON, as seemed to be found in an experiment with rats posted here a few months ago.

Just my take.It would be helpful if those who find their quality of life to be improved by exercise would post and tell us the type of exercise and the type of improvements in QOL that they perceive.

Rodney.> >> > I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga> instructors, as > > she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has

> taught since > > 1972. She is 5'6 " and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is> the mother of > > three children. > > Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (

http://www.yogaone.com)> > She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back> is one of > > her best.> > Sincerely,> > Lela> > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-> new AOL at > >

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour> >>

[Guest guest]

i sent that message before i was finished.

anyway all i wanted to add was these are wonderful benefits just for the here and now but if they make me a more agile, mobile and therefore independent person as i age... then fantastic.

On 8/13/07, keda maru <keda.maru@...> wrote:

i'm a lurker here, a novice (about 8 months) at both cron (i'm one of the ones attempting it on an all vegan, mostly raw diet... so far so good)and yoga (3 months) actually.

finally a question that i feel qualified to answer.

how does exercise, yoga in particular improve my quality of life:

yoga (the physicality, breathing, and the meditation parts of it) is my second favorite way to de-stress. i have increased my balance, flexibility and strength all of which makes me feel better about myself and improves my first favorite way of stress relief (sex). if that is not enough of quality of life improvement, i can see the difference in my muscle tone (i used to strength train 4x a week, since yoga, i've dropped to 2x a week) and i love this look.

all this in 3 months of 50 minutes 4 times a week. i am looking forward to becoming even more proficient. i get a yoga high that i don't get with other exercise like pilates for example. But I do get a high of a similar in intensity when i hike but not that undercurrent of tranquility.

-keda

On 8/13/07, Rodney <

perspect1111@...> wrote:

Hi Francesca:Often when people give 'quality of life' as a reason for doing something they do not specify how it is exactly that they perceive the quality of their life to be improved.

If one simply really enjoys the activity, that would be enough reason. " Enjoy playing soccer " for example. Or, " makes me feel better throughout the day " . Or, " feel less tired in the evenings " . Or, " I get a euphoric high when running " may be the case for some people? Or sleeping better, as you suggested.But just simply saying " quality of life " with no further explanation doesn't communicate very effectively to me. In general I find time spent in exercise that is vigorous enough to be likely to have significant health benefits to be arduous and boring. So I need to be persuaded about what the benefits are supposed to be if I am going to muster the motivation to do it.

Arduous and boring activities do not generally improve my perception of my quality of life. And less arduous, more enjoyable, activities may not confer much benefit to people already on CRON, as seemed to be found in an experiment with rats posted here a few months ago.Just my take.It would be helpful if those who find their quality of life to be improved by exercise would post and tell us the type of exercise and the type of improvements in QOL that they perceive.Rodney.> >> > I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga> instructors, as > > she had a series on PBS. She is well past 60 years old and has

> taught since > > 1972. She is 5'6 " and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask her.) She is> the mother of > > three children. > > Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (

http://www.yogaone.com)> > She has videos for sale. The routine for keeping a healthy back> is one of > > her best.> > Sincerely,> > Lela> > > >

> > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-> new AOL at > >

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour> >>

[Guest guest]

Keda: could you please post more on how you are doing your yoga? Do you use a tape such as I do? Do you take classes? Do you use a tv lesson? What type of yoga are you doing?

I would love to get that feeling of “well being”. I currently meditate, do yoga, walk. I have never achieved that “high”. It eludes me.

From: keda maru <keda.maru@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:39:24 -0400

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Yoga helps us keep fit

i'm a lurker here, a novice (about 8 months) at both cron (i'm one of the ones attempting it on an all vegan, mostly raw diet... so far so good)and yoga (3 months) actually.

finally a question that i feel qualified to answer.

how does exercise, yoga in particular improve my quality of life:

yoga (the physicality, breathing, and the meditation parts of it) is my second favorite way to de-stress. i have increased my balance, flexibility and strength all of which makes me feel better about myself and improves my first favorite way of stress relief (sex). if that is not enough of quality of life improvement, i can see the difference in my muscle tone (i used to strength train 4x a week, since yoga, i've dropped to 2x a week) and i love this look.

all this in 3 months of 50 minutes 4 times a week. i am looking forward to becoming even more proficient. i get a yoga high that i don't get with other exercise like pilates for example. But I do get a high of a similar in intensity when i hike but not that undercurrent of tranquility.

-keda

[Guest guest]

i practice hatha yoga in a group class setting--not at a yoga studio but at one of those large chain gyms so i actually have 4 different instructors, which i have found to be a good thing because each has a different focus. One of my instructors is a 63 year old lady, another is in her mid 70's and has the most vigorous class, and then their are two younger (20's, 30's) instructor (one male, one female). they are all excellent. these classes are advertised as intermediate classes

this is not my first foray into yoga. the first time i bought a tape that seemed to me no more than the light warm up stretches one does before working out. it did nothing for me. also, I have gone through a yoga class and not obtained that " high. " the difference seems to be that i have to be in the moment, focused on my poses and my breathing to obtain it. Maybe its just the yoga forces me to push everything out of my mind and that release is part of the " high " i get.

I don't know enough about biochemistry or about running to know if it's similar to the hormonal release that is associated with a runner's high. i don't even know if high is the right word. the only other word I can think of is bliss. and, francesca i wish i could explain it in a way that would make it " duplicatable " . maybe arturo or

mj can since they have been at it way longer than i.

-keda

On 8/13/07, Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...> wrote:

Keda: could you please post more on how you are doing your yoga? Do you use a tape such as I do? Do you take classes? Do you use a tv lesson? What type of yoga are you doing? I would love to get that feeling of "well being". I currently meditate, do yoga, walk. I have never achieved that "high". It eludes me.

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[Guest guest]

Francesa,I agree with you 100%.  While I am interested in longevity, I am more interested in having quality in my longer life.  Having spend a lot of time with my mother in her assisted living facility and being an observer of people, I noticed a major factor in the residents there was flexibility and balance, both in body and mind.Yoga helps with both and I will continue to do it as long as I can.  Personally, I think the benefits outweigh any negatives, and that is enough for me.While I am a great believer in research and the scientific method, I also am acutely aware of how science and medicine has evolved and old "truths" have been replaced by newer "truths".    I am an anesthesia professional and have been in the field for over 47 years.  The changes in my field have led to the incredible advances in surgery and we are learning constantly.  But with every anesthetic I give, I always am sensitive to the same basics I learned all of those years ago, which is essentially to maintain homeostasis and to do no harm.  Combining common sense with modern evidenced-based standards is the best of all worlds.  I think this applies to eating, exercise and longevity.  Just my opinion, but opinions are plentiful and I have no financial interest in mine.MJOn Aug 13, 2007, at 4:41 AM, Francesca Skelton wrote:Quality of life Rodney, quality of life.Just as many on this list find other exercise adds to their Q of Life.I started yoga hoping for sleep benefits, for example.  (although it doesn’t really help).From: Rodney <perspect1111 >Reply-< >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:35:45 -0000< >Subject: [ ] Re: Yoga helps us keep fit   Hi Lela, or Bill, or anyone:Is there an argument here for using yoga as preventive medicine, including for people who are not aware of having any issues that the physical aspects of yoga might benefit?  Are there studies that seem to suggest such benefits?There are only so many hours in a day.  By the standards of the overwhleming majority of the population I already devote a grossly excessive amount of time to health matters.  So I am reluctant to increase this by spending more time on something the benefits of which I am quite uncertain about.As noted, I am not averse to yoga in principle.  Just unsure how much benefit it might be to me.It does seem clear to me that in terms of general health and lifespan, CRON is far and away ahead of yoga (unless someone can provide studies showing otherwise).  And CRON greatly reduces inflammation (as indicated by CRP etc.) which seems to be closely related to deterioration in joints, as well as many other illnesses also.Rodney.>> I have found Priscilla to be one of the best Yoga  instructors, as > she had a series on PBS.  She is well past 60 years old and  has taught since > 1972.  She is 5'6" and weighs #110. (I wrote to ask  her.)  She is the mother of > three children.  > Her web site is at _www.yogaone.com_ (http://www.yogaone.com) > She has videos for sale.  The routine for keeping a  healthy back is one of > her best.> Sincerely,> Lela> > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>     

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill:

> Rodney I'm not making any earth-shaking claim here.

XXXXX OK. Of course the claims that are made about the benefits of

CRON on health and lifespan, frankly ARE earth-shaking to anyone the

first time they hear them. XXXXX

> I want to maintain

> a certain " athleticism " into advancing age. For example, with regard

> to my stretching, I wish to maintain a youthful gait. To be able to

> continue to bend over to place the palm of my hands flat on the

floor.

> Reaching above my head i want full shoulder extension, not a 40

> degrees less that I invariably see in most seniors. I want to be

able

> to bend and twist at the waist with ease, not move like there is a

> rigid pole up my spine as most seniors do. Apparently, the

mechanical

> aspects of life are much less significant to you. You don't seem to

> care how you move from place to place just that you stay alive to

> get there

>

> You seem to think CRON is enough?

XXXXX Not quite accurate. Please note that I said I support the

suggestions regarding exercise that are in the files here. XXXXX

> You made some vague reference to CRP

> and mechanical joint health. You ask for definitive evidence ...

XXXXX LOL. I see you are prone to exaggeration! I did not ask

for " definitive evidence " as you claim, what I actually asked was

(cut and pasted): " Are there studies that seem to suggest such

benefits? " I notice also that you didn't provide any, even in

response to that very mild request : ^ ))) XXXXX

> ...... of the benefits of exercise (stretching, yoga) on the

> mechanical function of joints, which it directly accesses, but on

> the other hand you are so willing to accept the effects of CRON

> pathways on the joint which are much more vague and ill-defined.

> Would you post the study(s) demonstrating the effect of CRON on

> preservation of mechanical joint function into aging? I'd like to

> read them.

XXXXX Yes, my reference to this was vague, because for anyone who

has been reading here the past couple of years I would have expected

this to be common knowledge, so that supplying the references would

hardly be necessary. XXXXX

XXXXX But since you ask, here is the argument I was referring to

which has been discussed here in the past: arthritis is very closely

associated with inflammation; the most well known biomarker used for

assessing inflammation is c-reactive protein (CRP); CRP in those on

CRON has been shown to be 81.2%, yes 81.2%, less than in fully fed

controls. XXXXX

XXXXX As regards the first part of the argument, if you search

PubMed using the terms " arthritis inflammation " you will find 12,769

references. As regards the second part of the argument, searching

using " CRP inflammation " you will find another 4,168. Of those, 339

are found in response to a search specific for " CRP inflammation

arthritis " . XXXXX

XXXXX For the third part please consult what is known around here as

the WUSTL study, PMID 15096581, you will find it is referenced in the

files. It is where I got the 81.2% number. The WUSTL study also

measured fasting insulin, another marker for inflammation. It was

reduced by 72.5% in CRON subjects compared with fully fed controls.

You might wish to search PubMed using the terms " insulin marker

inflammation " . When I did it gave me 598 references relating to that

part of the argument. XXXXX

XXXXX You might also want to take a look at PMID: 17684461 regarding

CRP and inflammation. XXXXX

XXXXX You will also note that another paper, which has just been

published, and which I posted yesterday, found that: " These

[benefits of CRON] include a very low level of inflammation as

evidenced by low circulating levels of c-reactive protein and TNF-

alpha, serum triiodothyronine levels at the low end of the normal

range, and ........ " . TNF-alpha is of course another major marker

for inflammation, which IIRC was not measured in the original WUSTL

study. XXXXX

XXXXX Now I know you prefer to read the full texts rather than

abstracts, as you have previously indicated, so I look forward to

hearing from you again when you have finished reading the full texts

of all the papers to be found above, and can tell us what more you

have found out about the likely effects of CRON on risk of arthritis

and other joint problems ;; ^ ))) XXXXX

> At 90, I want the movement of a dancer many years younger. I want

> their flexibility, their balance, their strength of posture. How my

> body moves through space is important to me. To manipulate my body

> thru space with ease, I don't want the stiff movement dynamics of a

> " zombie " . (For want of a better word LOL ) ................

See yer in a couple of years : ^ )))

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

At 04:35 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote:

>Hi Lela, or Bill, or anyone:

>

>Is there an argument here for using yoga as preventive medicine,

>including for people who are not aware of having any issues that the

>physical aspects of yoga might benefit? Are there studies that seem

>to suggest such benefits?

>

>There are only so many hours in a day. By the standards of the

>overwhleming majority of the population I already devote a grossly

>excessive amount of time to health matters. So I am reluctant to

>increase this by spending more time on something the benefits of

>which I am quite uncertain about.

>

>As noted, I am not averse to yoga in principle. Just unsure how much

>benefit it might be to me.

Except for people who buy in to the entire yogic belief system, there

is no real need to expend a vast amount of time practicing yoga, and

the benefit/time-cost in terms of maintaining mobility and

flexibility probably maxes out, in this one mouse's experience, at

well under 15 minutes per day.

Having practiced the full gamut of yoga practices across more than 35

years, a straightforward routine of less than thirty seconds per

posture through the surya namaskar series, some sitting spinal

twists, sholder stand for x seconds, fish pose for 1/2-x seconds, and

then lying-down spinal twists with a final set of deep-breathing

repetitions seems sufficient to get 95% of the benefits of yoga

practice, which are considerable, in terms of reduced tension in the

body and the metrics that the yoga enthusiast posted (hands on floor,

full upward stretching, etc.).

So the time cost doesn't need to be much for the physical benefits of

yoga practice. As for pranayama, meditation, and rest of it, that's a

different choice made address a different set of aspirations, and

although there is some evidence that meditation has physical

benefits, the main retained-flexibility benefits don't require it.

Maco

[Guest guest]

> the benefit/time-cost in terms of maintaining

> mobility and

> flexibility probably maxes out, in this one mouse's

> experience, at

> well under 15 minutes per day.

This is the point i was making with my comments on

ROM.

Regardless of whether you call them Yoga or not, there

are some simple basic easy movements, or poses, or

stretches, one can do, that will move most all the

joints/muscles thru their full ROM and probably take

no more than 10-15 minutes at most.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

From: Rodney <perspect1111@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:35:45 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: Yoga helps us keep fit

Rod: nobody is suggesting that you take up yoga. To each his own, or hedge your bets as you so often say.

I know that you meditate. And we have often discussed that too on this list.

For those of us who choose to do yoga (for either physical, mental or other benefits), the topic is of interest. (Just as we so often discuss other types of exercise).

CRON does not offer any mental health benefits. To the contrary, the more extreme practitioners are often described as short tempered and irritable. And CRON does nothing for those who have a tendency towards depression. Who wants to go through life that way? For some at least, yoga seems to ameliorate that problem.

Hi Lela, or Bill, or anyone:

Is there an argument here for using yoga as preventive medicine,

including for people who are not aware of having any issues that the

physical aspects of yoga might benefit? Are there studies that seem

to suggest such benefits?

There are only so many hours in a day. By the standards of the

overwhleming majority of the population I already devote a grossly

excessive amount of time to health matters. So I am reluctant to

increase this by spending more time on something the benefits of

which I am quite uncertain about.