Re: Re:Cooking, AGEs and FMD

[Guest guest]

Thanks

I was just getting around to posting that abstract and

replying in kind

I dont think there is a clear answer.

There are benefits to raw foods but I dont think the

raw fooders have the answer. ( most of the raw food

diets/books/restaurants I have seen and the followers

of them, are not healthy or healthier in general) and

there are benefits to some conservative methods of

cooking.

Thanks

jeff

[Guest guest]

> > There are benefits to raw foods but I dont think

> the

> > raw fooders have the answer. ( most of the raw

> food

> > diets/books/restaurants I have seen and the

> followers

> > of them, are not healthy or healthier in general)

> and

> > there are benefits to some conservative methods of

> > cooking.

> I wonder if this is just because raw food diets are

> often the

> last step along the path for those seeking health in

> the face

> of undiagnosable and/or debilitative conditions.

I wasn't really referring to the people on the raw

food diet, I was referring to what most people eat on

a raw food diet and also what is served in many raw

food restaurants. While they focus on " raw " , the food

and recipes can be very high in fat, oil, saturated

fat, simple sugars, and sodium and low in nutrients.

However, I have also seen many over the years who

adopted a raw food diet and saw their health worsen

due to the above. Their bone density, their dental

health, B12 issues, etc.

To many put the dogma of " raw " ahead of the focus on

health. And, unfortunately, even when presented with

the health issues, they choose to still place " raw "

over " health " .

There is an intelligent way to do anything.

Unfortunately, not everyone follows it.

Thanks

Jeff

[Guest guest]

> According to Dr. Graham, author of

> The 80/10/10 Diet ( http://snipurl.com/1mbfx ),

> the standard raw food diet is often worse than

> the SAD in terms of fat levels.

It is more than just the fat, as I mentioned.

If someone wanted to consume a healthy CR-ON style

diet as a 100% raw vegan, it could be done. Might not

be easy but could be done.

I just dont know of any conclusive ( or even good)

evidence that it is required of even neccessary. Do

you?

My point however, was that like anything, even

veganism, vegetarianism, and any other dietary

philosopies, even CR-ON, there can still be unhealthy

versions/interpretations and healthy ones. And, while

there may be personal preferences for one or another,

i think it is sad when the dogma replaces the goal.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

>Are there any reliable 100% raw vegan sources

of B12?

Are you referring to " real " food or are you willing to count a vegan supplement.

[Guest guest]

many of the supposed B12 plant sources (seaweed,

tempeh) turned up to be analgoues.

But not the supplements

Jeff

[Guest guest]

> To which raw supplement(s) do you refer, and how

> is the B12 sourced?

I didnt know " raw " was part of the discussion.

There are several vegan (certified) b12 supplements

Check these references out..

http://www.veganoutreach.org/health/b12rec.html

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

> Just to clarify -the raw food people do NOT support

> the idea of 100% raw

> food. There may be a few fringe wackos but most are

> talking between 60% and

> 80% raw, probably not so far from those of us that

> eat 5 to 9 servings of

> salads and fruits.

Good point. Even Clements, who runs Hippocrates

down here in S FL, recommends around 80% raw.

And again, it points to the basic concepts of eating

well (lots of fresh fruits, veggies) that are shared

by most all " sound and sane " dietary recommendations.

BTW, Even some of the original research, which is

often quoted by the raw food camp, to promote 100% raw

food, never used diets that were 100% raw nor did it

show all heating of food to be detrimental.

http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-1i.shtml#leukocytosis

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

> I know a couple of 100% raw food vegans and they

> won't

> consume any of those B12 supplements, because the

> supplements are not raw. The point is that optimal

> nutrition is impossible on a 100% raw vegan diet,

> since Vitamin B12 will be lacking. (I thought that

> you were stating otherwise, based on your post.)

I guess in this respect, the 100% Raw Vegan diet being

100% able to satisfy all ones needs, in regard to B12,

would not be possible

Unless someone else knows of another solution.

Even Doug Graham, who boosts of being 100% raw for 27

years, has admitted publically to taking a b12

supplement

Jeff