Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Does this mean the raw food people are on to something?Andie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 --- In , " Mock " <andiemock@...> wrote: > > Does this mean the raw food people are on to something? > > Andie > Not entirely. Unless the high AGEs producing fructose content of most alternative/raw food diets is brought way down. You can cook only if you avoid maillard type reactions. you can poach your eggs, boil your chicken, potatoes, steam your fish... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12234125 & dopt=Abstract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > Thanks > > I was just getting around to posting that abstract and > replying in kind > > I dont think there is a clear answer. That was indeed an intriguing finding regarding fruit: Advanced glycation end products and nutrition http://calorierestriction.org/pmid/?n=12234125 " Comparison of nutrition and plasma AGEs in vegetarian and omnivorous groups shows that the higher intake of fructose in alternative nutrition of healthy subjects may cause an increase of AGE levels. " > There are benefits to raw foods but I dont think the > raw fooders have the answer. ( most of the raw food > diets/books/restaurants I have seen and the followers > of them, are not healthy or healthier in general) and > there are benefits to some conservative methods of > cooking. I wonder if this is just because raw food diets are often the last step along the path for those seeking health in the face of undiagnosable and/or debilitative conditions. On the topic of AGE's, I was perplexed by the study below which found soy nuts (a roasted, and presumably highly AGE-producing food) to help lower blood pressure. And yet, we recently read evidence of microvasculature inflammation and disfunction with the consumption of high-AGE meals. Are the flavanoids in soy so strong as to overcome the negative effects from AGE's induced by their roasting? Thanks, - Effect of Soy Nuts on Blood Pressure and Lipid Levels in Hypertensive, Prehypertensive, and Normotensive Postmenopausal Women Francine K. Welty; S. Lee; S. Lew; Jin-Rong Zhou Arch Intern Med. 2007;167:1060-1067. Conclusions Substituting soy nuts for nonsoy protein in a TLC diet improves BP and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels in hypertensive women and BP in normotensive postmenopausal women. These findings may explain a cardioprotective effect of soy. http://calorierestriction.org/pmid/?n=17533209 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 In that case, we are in 100% agreement. According to Dr. Graham, author of The 80/10/10 Diet ( http://snipurl.com/1mbfx ), the standard raw food diet is often worse than the SAD in terms of fat levels. When I first started investigating raw foodism, I had come to the same conclusion and decided it was not for me. Revisiting it more recently, via this and other books, it dawned on me that such was not a requirement of the diet itself (which seems exceedingly obvious in hindsight!). - --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > > > There are benefits to raw foods but I dont think > > the > > > raw fooders have the answer. ( most of the raw > > food > > > diets/books/restaurants I have seen and the > > followers > > > of them, are not healthy or healthier in general) > > and > > > there are benefits to some conservative methods of > > > cooking. > > > > > I wonder if this is just because raw food diets are > > often the > > last step along the path for those seeking health in > > the face > > of undiagnosable and/or debilitative conditions. > > I wasn't really referring to the people on the raw > food diet, I was referring to what most people eat on > a raw food diet and also what is served in many raw > food restaurants. While they focus on " raw " , the food > and recipes can be very high in fat, oil, saturated > fat, simple sugars, and sodium and low in nutrients. > > > However, I have also seen many over the years who > adopted a raw food diet and saw their health worsen > due to the above. Their bone density, their dental > health, B12 issues, etc. > > To many put the dogma of " raw " ahead of the focus on > health. And, unfortunately, even when presented with > the health issues, they choose to still place " raw " > over " health " . > > There is an intelligent way to do anything. > Unfortunately, not everyone follows it. > > > > Thanks > Jeff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 And that is why in a previous post discussing the relative health of vegetarians and non-vegetarians I used the wording: " those who described themselves as vegetarians " were no healthier than non- vegetarians. As Jeff has previously noted, if someone describes themselves as vegetarian it does not tell you what they eat. It only tells you what they don't eat. Maybe. Same applies to many other labels. Of course even 'ON' is ambiguous, as there are many, in some cases radically different, interpretations of what that means. Rodney. --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > > According to Dr. Graham, author of > > The 80/10/10 Diet ( http://snipurl.com/1mbfx ), > > the standard raw food diet is often worse than > > the SAD in terms of fat levels. > > It is more than just the fat, as I mentioned. > > If someone wanted to consume a healthy CR-ON style > diet as a 100% raw vegan, it could be done. Might not > be easy but could be done. > > I just dont know of any conclusive ( or even good) > evidence that it is required of even neccessary. Do > you? > > My point however, was that like anything, even > veganism, vegetarianism, and any other dietary > philosopies, even CR-ON, there can still be unhealthy > versions/interpretations and healthy ones. And, while > there may be personal preferences for one or another, > i think it is sad when the dogma replaces the goal. > > Regards > Jeff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: [..] > My point however, was that like anything, even > veganism, vegetarianism, and any other dietary > philosopies, even CR-ON, there can still be unhealthy > versions/interpretations and healthy ones. And, while > there may be personal preferences for one or another, > i think it is sad when the dogma replaces the goal. Then we're still in 100% agreement. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Are there any reliable 100% raw vegan sources of B12? If not, then I don't see how one could be 100% raw vegan CRON. --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > > According to Dr. Graham, author of > > The 80/10/10 Diet ( http://snipurl.com/1mbfx ), > > the standard raw food diet is often worse than > > the SAD in terms of fat levels. > > It is more than just the fat, as I mentioned. > > If someone wanted to consume a healthy CR-ON style > diet as a 100% raw vegan, it could be done. Might not > be easy but could be done. > > I just dont know of any conclusive ( or even good) > evidence that it is required of even neccessary. Do > you? > > My point however, was that like anything, even > veganism, vegetarianism, and any other dietary > philosopies, even CR-ON, there can still be unhealthy > versions/interpretations and healthy ones. And, while > there may be personal preferences for one or another, > i think it is sad when the dogma replaces the goal. > > Regards > Jeff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Of the raw vegan supplements I have seen, I believe that they all contain plant/herb-based B12 analogs that are useless (or worse) to the human body. Products such as spirulina powder are not reliable B12 sources, right? --- In , Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > >Are there any reliable 100% raw vegan sources > of B12? > > Are you referring to " real " food or are you willing to count a vegan supplement. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 To which raw supplement(s) do you refer, and how is the B12 sourced? Thanks, -Dave --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > many of the supposed B12 plant sources (seaweed, > tempeh) turned up to be analgoues. > > But not the supplements > > Jeff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Just to clarify -the raw food people do NOT support the idea of 100% raw food. There may be a few fringe wackos but most are talking between 60% and 80% raw, probably not so far from those of us that eat 5 to 9 servings of salads and fruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 OK, I was responding to your post #25816, in which you stated: " If someone wanted to consume a healthy CR-ON style diet as a 100% raw vegan, it could be done. Might not be easy but could be done. " I know a couple of 100% raw food vegans and they won't consume any of those B12 supplements, because the supplements are not raw. The point is that optimal nutrition is impossible on a 100% raw vegan diet, since Vitamin B12 will be lacking. (I thought that you were stating otherwise, based on your post.) -Dave --- In , Jeff Novick <chefjeff40@...> wrote: > > > To which raw supplement(s) do you refer, and how > > is the B12 sourced? > > I didnt know " raw " was part of the discussion. > > There are several vegan (certified) b12 supplements > > > Check these references out.. > > http://www.veganoutreach.org/health/b12rec.html > > http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/ > > http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm > > Regards > Jeff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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