Re: Re: CRON + Exercise/extreme vs moderate CRON

[Guest guest]

Whoa........We have an entire file devoted to studies that this is not necessarily so. Some of these studies point to a BMI of between 18.5 and 22 being optimum for maximum life. So if by“up to a point”, you mean a BMI that doesn’t go below 18, then fine. If not, then your statement your “common knowledge” statement is not “common knowledge’ by many of us.

See the “moderate CRON vs extreme CRON”file.

From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:48:23 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: CRON + Exercise

Hi Rodney.

Given the common knowledge that greater calorie restriction (up to a

point; see Walford and others) leads to greater maximum lifespan, I

think that this question has already been answered by the

aforementioned study that you posted. The group that ate more but

burned off those extra calories had the same longevity as the more

calorie-restricted sedentary group. Hence, the study shows that

burning calories mimics greater calorie restriction and therefore

should increase lifespan.

Extrapolating to humans, if you compare the 1800 cal/day sedentary

group to an 1800 cal/day exercising group that burns 200 calories per

day, the latter would mimic a 1600-calorie sedentary group. Agreed?

-Dave

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi folks: A couple of weeks ago the question came up whether

> > exercise

> > > > > with CRON is better than CRON alone. We know exercise increases

> > > > > average lifespan, as of course does CRON. We know that exercise

> does

> > > > > not increase maximal lifespan (generally defined as the average

> > > > lifespan

> > > > > of the longest-lived 10% of the individuals studied) whereas

> CRON

> > > > does.

> > > > > It is hypothetically possible that exercise + CRON might further

> > > > > rectangularize the survival curve, a bit better than that for

> CRON

> > > > > alone. But it is also possible that the extra calories processed

> in

> > > > > order to permit the exercise might actually shorten lifespan.

> The

> > > > > following paper, Holloszy JO 1997, may be the most recent solid

> > > > > information on the subject. The link below provides the full

> > text. If

> > > > > I understand it the gist is that in rats: " .... survival curves

> [of

> > > > > wheel-running restricted rats] were virtually identical to those

> of

> > > > > sedentary animals that were food restricted so as to keep their

> body

> > > > > weights the same as those of the runners. " , and: " .......

> exercise

> > > > > does not interfere with the extension of maximal life span by

> food

> > > > > restriction, and the beneficial effects of food restriction and

> > > > exercise

> > > > > on survival are not additive or synergistic. " In other words,

> if

> > > > > these results apply also to humans, exercise will have no effect

> > > > either

> > > > > positive or negative for lifespan when added on top of CRON. If

> > anyone

> > > > > has more up-to-date information, please post.

> > > > > http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/82/2/399

> > > > > <http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/82/2/399> Rodney.

>

[Guest guest]

At 11:50 AM 2/4/2008, you wrote:

Whoa........We have an entire

file devoted to studies that this is not necessarily so. Some of

these studies point to a BMI of between 18.5 and 22 being optimum for

maximum life. So if by“up to a point”, you mean a BMI that doesn’t

go below 18, then fine. If not, then your statement your “common

knowledge” statement is not “common knowledge’ by many of us.

See the “moderate CRON vs extreme CRON”file.

Concur, of course. And calories burned by exercise do not equal calories

not consumed through restriction: they're apples and oranges, and finding

the right fruit-bowl mix for the best mitochondrial and sirtuin effects

is the current " art " element in the CRON adventure. We want to

stay fit and have our bodies be strong and useful, but exercising to get

a relative " restriction " is not the answer because as _is_ in

fact common knowledge, exercise doesn't do squat for maximum life

extension, in contrast to what would be the case were the calories of the

same sort.

Maco

From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:48:23 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: CRON + Exercise

Hi Rodney.

Given the common knowledge that greater calorie restriction (up to a

point; see Walford and others) leads to greater maximum lifespan, I

think that this question has already been answered by the

aforementioned study that you posted. The group that ate more

but

burned off those extra calories had the same longevity as the more

calorie-restricted sedentary group. Hence, the study shows

that

burning calories mimics greater calorie restriction and therefore

should increase lifespan.

Extrapolating to humans, if you compare the 1800 cal/day sedentary

group to an 1800 cal/day exercising group that burns 200 calories

per

day, the latter would mimic a 1600-calorie sedentary group.

Agreed?

-Dave

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi folks: A couple of weeks ago the question

came up whether

> > exercise

> > > > > with CRON is better than CRON alone. We know

exercise increases

> > > > > average lifespan, as of course does CRON. We

know that exercise

> does

> > > > > not increase maximal lifespan (generally defined

as the average

> > > > lifespan

> > > > > of the longest-lived 10% of the individuals

studied) whereas

> CRON

> > > > does.

> > > > > It is hypothetically possible that exercise +

CRON might further

> > > > > rectangularize the survival curve, a bit better

than that for

> CRON

> > > > > alone. But it is also possible that the extra

calories processed

> in

> > > > > order to permit the exercise might actually

shorten lifespan.

> The

> > > > > following paper, Holloszy JO 1997, may be the

most recent solid

> > > > > information on the subject. The link below

provides the full

> > text. If

> > > > > I understand it the gist is that in rats:

" .... survival curves

> [of

> > > > > wheel-running restricted rats] were virtually

identical to those

> of

> > > > > sedentary animals that were food restricted so

as to keep their

> body

> > > > > weights the same as those of the runners. "

, and: " .......

> exercise

> > > > > does not interfere with the extension of maximal

life span by

> food

> > > > > restriction, and the beneficial effects of food

restriction and

> > > > exercise

> > > > > on survival are not additive or synergistic.

" In other words,

> if

> > > > > these results apply also to humans, exercise

will have no effect

> > > > either

> > > > > positive or negative for lifespan when added on

top of CRON. If

> > anyone

> > > > > has more up-to-date information, please

post.

> > > > >

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/82/2/399

> > > > >

<

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/82/2/399

> Rodney.

>

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