Re: Low Testosterone, Shorter Lives

[Guest guest]

Testosterone is crucial to preserving muscle mass, cardiac function

(the heart is also a muscle), preveting system inflammation, etc.

My hypothesis is that CR works in SPITE of lowering sex hormones. I

think it would be enhanced by appropriate bioidentical hormonal

replacement.

>

> This article in today's Washington Post conflicts with our earlier

thoughts

> that low testosterone (which happens with extreme CR) leads to

longer

> life.....

>

>

> Low Testosterone, Shorter Lives

>

> Men who have lower levels of testosterone may be at greater risk of

dying

> early, according to new research.

>

> A study of nearly 800 California men ages 50 to 91 found that those

with the

> lowest testosterone levels had a 33 percent greater risk of death

during the

> next 18 years than the men with higher levels.

>

> " The new study is only the second report linking deficiency of this

sex

> hormone with increased death from all causes over time and the

first to do

> so in relatively healthy men, " said Gail Laughlin of the University

of

> California at San Diego School of Medicine, who presented the

findings last

> week at a meeting of the Endocrine Society.

>

> Testosterone levels tend to decline with age but vary widely, with

many

> older men still having levels typically found in younger men. Low

levels in

> the study were considered those at the lower limit of normal for

young men.

>

> The men in the study with low levels also tended to have more signs

of

> inflammation, which has been associated with a variety of health

problems.

>

> Although the study might support the idea that taking testosterone

> supplements may benefit some men, the researchers cautioned against

jumping

> to that conclusion. Lifestyle changes, such as losing weight and

exercising,

> may work just as well and be safer.

>

> " We are excited about these findings, which have important

implications, but

> we are not ready to say that men should go out and get testosterone

to

> prolong their lives, " said Barrett-Connor, who helped

conduct the

> research.

>

> -- Rob Stein

>

[Guest guest]

My suspicion is that the low testosterone in the study cited is a

function of increased adiposity and that the findings are secondary to

the effects of that adiposity on other longevity-relevant qualities, but

I haven't seen the study.

Maco

At 08:40 PM 6/11/2007, you wrote:

Testosterone is crucial to

preserving muscle mass, cardiac function

(the heart is also a muscle), preveting system inflammation,

etc.

My hypothesis is that CR works in SPITE of lowering sex hormones. I

think it would be enhanced by appropriate bioidentical hormonal

replacement.

>

> This article in today's Washington Post conflicts with our earlier

thoughts

> that low testosterone (which happens with extreme CR) leads to

longer

> life.....

>

>

> Low Testosterone, Shorter Lives

>

> Men who have lower levels of testosterone may be at greater risk of

dying

> early, according to new research.

>

> A study of nearly 800 California men ages 50 to 91 found that those

with the

> lowest testosterone levels had a 33 percent greater risk of death

during the

> next 18 years than the men with higher levels.

>

> " The new study is only the second report linking deficiency of

this

sex

> hormone with increased death from all causes over time and the

first to do

> so in relatively healthy men, " said Gail Laughlin of the

University

of

> California at San Diego School of Medicine, who presented the

findings last

> week at a meeting of the Endocrine Society.

>

> Testosterone levels tend to decline with age but vary widely, with

many

> older men still having levels typically found in younger men. Low

levels in

> the study were considered those at the lower limit of normal for

young men.

>

> The men in the study with low levels also tended to have more signs

of

> inflammation, which has been associated with a variety of health

problems.

>

> Although the study might support the idea that taking

testosterone

> supplements may benefit some men, the researchers cautioned against

jumping

> to that conclusion. Lifestyle changes, such as losing weight and

exercising,

> may work just as well and be safer.

>

> " We are excited about these findings, which have important

implications, but

> we are not ready to say that men should go out and get testosterone

to

> prolong their lives, " said Barrett-Connor, who helped

conduct the

> research.

>

> -- Rob Stein

>

[Guest guest]

,

The article didn't encourage testosterone supplementation but I

wonder how many men doing CR are taking DHEA in part to help avoid

the risks mentioned in it. I started taking DHEA several years ago

and believe it has had a very positive effect on my overall health

and well-being. Others mileage may vary but I definitely plan on

continuing to take DHEA while doing CR.

Jeff

> >

> > This article in today's Washington Post conflicts with our

earlier

> thoughts

> > that low testosterone (which happens with extreme CR) leads to

> longer

> > life.....

> >

> >

> > Low Testosterone, Shorter Lives

> >

> > Men who have lower levels of testosterone may be at greater risk

of

> dying

> > early, according to new research.

> >

> > A study of nearly 800 California men ages 50 to 91 found that

those

> with the

> > lowest testosterone levels had a 33 percent greater risk of death

> during the

> > next 18 years than the men with higher levels.

> >

> > " The new study is only the second report linking deficiency of

this

> sex

> > hormone with increased death from all causes over time and the

> first to do

> > so in relatively healthy men, " said Gail Laughlin of the

University

> of

> > California at San Diego School of Medicine, who presented the

> findings last

> > week at a meeting of the Endocrine Society.

> >

> > Testosterone levels tend to decline with age but vary widely,

with

> many

> > older men still having levels typically found in younger men. Low

> levels in

> > the study were considered those at the lower limit of normal for

> young men.

> >

> > The men in the study with low levels also tended to have more

signs

> of

> > inflammation, which has been associated with a variety of health

> problems.

> >

> > Although the study might support the idea that taking testosterone

> > supplements may benefit some men, the researchers cautioned

against

> jumping

> > to that conclusion. Lifestyle changes, such as losing weight and

> exercising,

> > may work just as well and be safer.

> >

> > " We are excited about these findings, which have important

> implications, but

> > we are not ready to say that men should go out and get

testosterone

> to

> > prolong their lives, " said Barrett-Connor, who helped

> conduct the

> > research.

> >

> > -- Rob Stein

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

And it might be important to distinguish between those who have had

low testosterone all their lives, no matter their dietary intake, and

those whose low testosterone is a function of dietary restriction

only - but had good testosterone levels prior to extreme CR. There

are so few people on CR that it is very doubtful there were any

people in this study who had low testosterone because of CR. My bet

is that all the study subjects had had low testosterone most of their

lives.

There might be an effect here that is somewhat analagous to the one I

have suggested may be at work in the BMI/longevity data ...........

that people who all their lives have had a 'poor appetite' may be

both slim and intrinsically sub-clinically sick. While those who

have always had 'a very healthy appetite', but are slim because of

determined efforts to eat an appropriate amount, may be an entirely

different kettle of fish altogether.

All the above is speculation of course. But it certainly is one way

the otherwise apparently paradoxical data regarding CR and

BMI/longevity could be reconciled.

[i would even suggest that it might be a good idea to investigate

whether the people with a life-long poor appetite are the very same

people with life-long low testosterone.]

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hope springs eternal; data often shoots it down. ``The average control mouse lived 753 days, while the lean and mean rodents averaged a lifespan of 887 days.'' There you have it: a normal, well-cared-for, well-nourished mouse lives,on average, ~900 days. Eg, " The average survival for the [ Weindruch'scontrol group in [ Weindruch's AL control group in (2)] was 29.2 ± 0.6months, which was similar to that of [AL+DHEA] mice (29.9 ± 0.5 months);the median survivals were 29.8 and 30.5 months, respectively. " Moreover from the full text of (2) : "The maximum longevity (averagelife-span of the 10% longest lived mice) was significantly increasedfrom 34.7 months in the controls to 39.5 months in FIRKO mice (P <0.001)." "The longest lived FIRKO mice died at the age of 41 months."Again, yer standard cohort of non-fuckup mice should live about thislong (~1200 days). Cf,

again, Weindruch's AL controls, which were only alittle less longevous than the FIRKOs in (1): "Mean survival times forthe last 10% of the [AL] and [AL+DHEA] populations were 37.8 ± 0.3 and36.6 ± 0.5 months, respectively, and not significantly different. All[AL] mice were dead by 39 months." (2) This suggests that the FIRKOs might be a BIT better off than yer basiclab mouse subject to proper husbandry -- but nothing like they'd beunder CR. Again, from (1) -- wihic was ADULT-ONSET CR (initiated at age12 mo, or ~ 13 human years), of "only" 26% CR, NB -- "The averagesurvival for [CR] mice was 33.2 ± 0.7 months, compared to 32.6 ± 0.6 months for [CR + DHEA] mice ... mean survival times for the longest-lived 10% of the [two groupswere], 41.8 ± 0.6 and 41.1 ± 0.5 months, respectively. The last RD mousedied at 44.8 months." 1. Bluher M, Kahn BB, Kahn

CR.Extended longevity in mice lacking the insulin receptor in adipose tissue.Science. 2003 Jan 24;299(5606):572-4.PMID: 12543978 2. Pugh TD, Oberley TD, Weindruch R.Dietary intervention at middle age: caloric restriction but notdehydroepiandrosterone sulfate increases lifespan and lifetime cancer incidencein mice.Cancer Res. 1999 Apr 1;59(7):1642-8.PMID: 10197641 jeffp54252 <jeffp54252@...> wrote: The article didn't encourage testosterone supplementation but I wonder how many men doing CR are taking DHEA in part to help avoid the risks mentioned in it. I started taking DHEA several years ago and believe it has had a very positive effect on my overall health and well-being. Others mileage may vary but I definitely plan on continuing to take DHEA while doing CR.

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