Re: What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You? -Men's Health Article

[Guest guest]

>> you may

> want to consider the curious case of the Masai, a

> nomadic tribe in

> Kenya and Tanzania.

Not me. I wouldnt want to hedge my bets on an

isolated tribe that for sake of survival, has adapted

to something contrary to what we know to be healthy.

And if you missed it last month..

I posted this comment about them...

The Masai, an African tribe that is one that lives

soley on Animal protein, and said to have " adapted "

have a life expectancy in the 40s also.

not an " adaptation " I am looking for.

But, if you got a magazine to sell, I guess it makes a

good story.

Jeff

[Guest guest]

There was a subsequent article which pointed out those men had clogged arteries, but they were so much larger than ours, they didn't stop the blood flow.

There have been many comparisons with "foreign" tribes claiming one thing or another and we are not them.

If you put a million people in an environment with no salt, eg, and go back 100 yrs later there will be people living who have adapted to that environment.

It proves nothing about us.

That goes for the Eskimos, yanomami, Japanese, Bali Chinese, whatever.

Regards

[ ] "What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?" -Men's Health Article

New article in Men's Health Magazine:What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?By: Nina Teicholz, Photographs by: Nikolai GolovanoffExcerpt:"For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogsarteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: Noone's ever proved itBy: Nina Teicholz, Photographs by: Nikolai GolovanoffSuppose you were forced to live on a diet of red meat and whole milk.A diet that, all told, was at least 60 percent fat -- about half of itsaturated. If your first thoughts are of statins and stents, you maywant to consider the curious case of the Masai, a nomadic tribe inKenya and Tanzania.In the 1960s, a Vanderbilt University scientist named Mann,M.D., found that Masai men consumed this very diet (supplemented withblood from the cattle they herded). Yet these nomads, who were alsovery lean, had some of the lowest levels of cholesterol ever measuredand were virtually free of heart disease.Scientists, confused by the finding, argued that the tribe must havecertain genetic protections against developing high cholesterol. Butwhen British researchers monitored a group of Masai men who moved toNairobi and began consuming a more modern diet, they discovered thatthe men's cholesterol subsequently skyrocketed.Similar observations were made of the Samburu -- another Kenyan tribe-- as well as the Fulani of Nigeria. While the findings from thesecultures seem to contradict the fact that eating saturated fat leadsto heart disease, it may surprise you to know that this "fact" isn't afact at all. It is, more accurately, a hypothesis from the 1950sthat's never been proved."Read FULL TEXT here: http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth & channel=health & category=heart.disease & conitem=a03ddd2eaab85110VgnVCM10000013281eac____ & page=6Also, don't miss this additional article too:Fat Foods You Can Eat8 "unhealthy" foods that are actually good for youBy: Jeff Volek, Ph.D., R.D. & Adam Campbelhttp://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth & channel=nutrition & category=food.for.fitness & conitem=4eeddfd87d4a5110VgnVCM10000013281eac____#When will the insanity stop? :|

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill:

If you think this is worth taking seriously, I have a suggestion:

ASAP go have your lipids, blood pressure and the other standard major

CRON tests done, including blood glucose, CRP, fasting insulin, IGF-

1, WBC and so on, and keep the results. Then adopt a Masai diet and

after six months have the same tests repeated and post both sets of

results here.

It is possible you have a genetic profile that would benefit from

this. Perhaps not. But for me I am more than happy with the results

of a standard low fat, mostly vegetable, some fruit, some nuts some

grain products diet, along with restriction, of course.

But it would be an eye-opener if your numbers improved remarkably.

(This is not to say my current diet is perfect. As evidence

continues to accumulate I will continue to adjust accordingly).

Rodney.

>

> New article in Men's Health Magazine:

>

> What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?

> By: Nina Teicholz, Photographs by: Nikolai Golovanoff

> Excerpt:

>

> " For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs

> arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No

> one's ever proved it

> By: Nina Teicholz, Photographs by: Nikolai Golovanoff

>

> Suppose you were forced to live on a diet of red meat and whole

milk.

> A diet that, all told, was at least 60 percent fat -- about half of

it

> saturated. If your first thoughts are of statins and stents, you may

> want to consider the curious case of the Masai, a nomadic tribe in

> Kenya and Tanzania.

>

>

>

> In the 1960s, a Vanderbilt University scientist named Mann,

> M.D., found that Masai men consumed this very diet (supplemented

with

> blood from the cattle they herded). Yet these nomads, who were also

> very lean, had some of the lowest levels of cholesterol ever

measured

> and were virtually free of heart disease.

>

>

>

> Scientists, confused by the finding, argued that the tribe must have

> certain genetic protections against developing high cholesterol. But

> when British researchers monitored a group of Masai men who moved to

> Nairobi and began consuming a more modern diet, they discovered that

> the men's cholesterol subsequently skyrocketed.

>

>

>

> Similar observations were made of the Samburu -- another Kenyan

tribe

> -- as well as the Fulani of Nigeria. While the findings from these

> cultures seem to contradict the fact that eating saturated fat leads

> to heart disease, it may surprise you to know that this " fact "

isn't a

> fact at all. It is, more accurately, a hypothesis from the 1950s

> that's never been proved. "

>

>

> Read FULL TEXT here:

> http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?

site=MensHealth & channel=health & category=heart.disease & conitem=a03ddd2e

aab85110VgnVCM10000013281eac____ & page=6

>

>

>

>

> Also, don't miss this additional article too:

>

> Fat Foods You Can Eat

> 8 " unhealthy " foods that are actually good for you

> By: Jeff Volek, Ph.D., R.D. & Adam Campbel

> http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?

site=MensHealth & channel=nutrition & category=food.for.fitness & conitem=4e

eddfd87d4a5110VgnVCM10000013281eac____#

>

>

> When will the insanity stop? :|

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning everyone.

If I'm not completely off my rocker, Rodney's statement that " it would

be an eye-opener... " is the very statement whose answer was the reason

that Atkins, Taubes, and others advocated and continue to recommend a

high-fat, low-carb diet to improve blood profiles and lose weight.

Continuing on such a diet for the rest of one's life does not appear

to be the nutrient-deficient dead-end that one might suppose. I

highly recommend Taubes' book for the " other " side of the diet story.

Am I biased? I've read all of their books and let me tell you, if I

had a bad blood history OR were overly heavy, I'd be eating steak and

eggs 3x a day with my small green salad on the side.

YMMV (your mileage may vary)

in Albuquerque

>

> Hi Bill:

>

> If you think this is worth taking seriously, I have a suggestion:

>

> ASAP go have your lipids, blood pressure and the other standard major

> CRON tests done, including blood glucose, CRP, fasting insulin, IGF-

> 1, WBC and so on, and keep the results. Then adopt a Masai diet and

> after six months have the same tests repeated and post both sets of

> results here.

>

> It is possible you have a genetic profile that would benefit from

> this. Perhaps not. But for me I am more than happy with the results

> of a standard low fat, mostly vegetable, some fruit, some nuts some

> grain products diet, along with restriction, of course.

>

> But it would be an eye-opener if your numbers improved remarkably.

>

> (This is not to say my current diet is perfect. As evidence

> continues to accumulate I will continue to adjust accordingly).

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Macronutrient ratios and food sources (after essential nutrients are satisfied) probably makes a much bigger difference when these foods are consumed in excess of our energy budget than during weight loss or at low maintenance levels (like CRON).It seems to be human nature to long for magic foods but I fear they are just bricks, and cement, and fuel, to keep our house standing and warm. Another +1 for Rodney's suggestion. This doesn't need to be a philosophical exercise or a debate. With easy low cost blood tests available. Trust whomever you want, but verify. While it is more difficult to reliably parse out longevity, avoiding common lifestyle diseases can be easily seen in markers like CRP and standard blood panel.Measure and adjust accordingly. JR On Nov 4, 2007, at 9:04 AM, kaitainen wrote:Good morning everyone. If I'm not completely off my rocker, Rodney's statement that "it wouldbe an eye-opener..." is the very statement whose answer was the reasonthat Atkins, Taubes, and others advocated and continue to recommend ahigh-fat, low-carb diet to improve blood profiles and lose weight. Continuing on such a diet for the rest of one's life does not appearto be the nutrient-deficient dead-end that one might suppose. Ihighly recommend Taubes' book for the "other" side of the diet story.Am I biased? I've read all of their books and let me tell you, if Ihad a bad blood history OR were overly heavy, I'd be eating steak andeggs 3x a day with my small green salad on the side. YMMV (your mileage may vary)in Albuquerque >> Hi Bill:> > If you think this is worth taking seriously, I have a suggestion:> > ASAP go have your lipids, blood pressure and the other standard major > CRON tests done, including blood glucose, CRP, fasting insulin, IGF-> 1, WBC and so on, and keep the results. Then adopt a Masai diet and > after six months have the same tests repeated and post both sets of > results here. > > It is possible you have a genetic profile that would benefit from > this. Perhaps not. But for me I am more than happy with the results > of a standard low fat, mostly vegetable, some fruit, some nuts some > grain products diet, along with restriction, of course.> > But it would be an eye-opener if your numbers improved remarkably.> > (This is not to say my current diet is perfect. As evidence > continues to accumulate I will continue to adjust accordingly).> > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

> Another +1 for Rodney's suggestion. This doesn't

> need to be a

> philosophical exercise or a debate. With easy low

> cost blood tests

> available. Trust whomever you want, but verify.

In addition, besides the blood tests, take the diet

and plug it into the CRON-O-Meter and see how it comes

out. The " ON " part is a lot more than just

macro-nutrient levels.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

ly, I know people who have lost a lot of weight using Atkin's, but the point here is that CR extends life, not weightloss dieting extends life. I'm relatively sure of the first, not the second.

Rodney's method has sound backing in the fact that Ornish is one of the approved diets, not for weight loss, but for health. Atkin's is not.

In fact, based on the Finland study, a limit of fat of 30% was imposed, and improved CVD mortality. Those people eat a lot of fish, and also have a lot of HTN. According to a Cardiologist there, his patients work long hours, sometimes to exhaustion.

Until we have long term studies, in THIS country, I won't accept a high fat diet. It could be that statins will totally alter outcomes in the future, heart surgery does now.

I admit I tried it and couldn't do it. There are unpleasant features of a high fat diet.

There are other considerations, eg, the relationship of macro distribution with dementia, Parkinson's, macular degeneration, kidney disease, cancer.

Regards

[ ] Re: "What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?" -Men's Health Article

Good morning everyone. If I'm not completely off my rocker, Rodney's statement that "it wouldbe an eye-opener..." is the very statement whose answer was the reasonthat Atkins, Taubes, and others advocated and continue to recommend ahigh-fat, low-carb diet to improve blood profiles and lose weight. Continuing on such a diet for the rest of one's life does not appearto be the nutrient-deficient dead-end that one might suppose. Ihighly recommend Taubes' book for the "other" side of the diet story.Am I biased? I've read all of their books and let me tell you, if Ihad a bad blood history OR were overly heavy, I'd be eating steak andeggs 3x a day with my small green salad on the side. YMMV (your mileage may vary)in Albuquerque

..

[Guest guest]

How much fat is in your diet and how much fat ends up in your blood

are not connected as simply as many assume. Most people in this group

know this. For example, they accept that trans fats are worse than

omega-3s and omega-5s. The theme that not all calories are the same

and that easily digested carbohydrates are probably the worst for you

in terms of fat accumulation is central to the new book " Good

Calories, Bad Calories, " by Taubes (I review it and point to other

reviews on my blog, ifdiet.blogspot.com). That book, and these

articles in " Men's Health, " are signs that the pendulum is swinging

away from " fat-free is best. "

>

> New article in Men's Health Magazine:

>

> What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?

> By: Nina Teicholz, Photographs by: Nikolai Golovanoff

> Excerpt:

>

> " For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs

> arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No

> one's ever proved it

> By: Nina Teicholz, Photographs by: Nikolai Golovanoff

>

> Suppose you were forced to live on a diet of red meat and whole milk.

> A diet that, all told, was at least 60 percent fat -- about half of it

> saturated. If your first thoughts are of statins and stents, you may

> want to consider the curious case of the Masai, a nomadic tribe in

> Kenya and Tanzania.

>

>

>

> In the 1960s, a Vanderbilt University scientist named Mann,

> M.D., found that Masai men consumed this very diet (supplemented with

> blood from the cattle they herded). Yet these nomads, who were also

> very lean, had some of the lowest levels of cholesterol ever measured

> and were virtually free of heart disease.

>

>

>

> Scientists, confused by the finding, argued that the tribe must have

> certain genetic protections against developing high cholesterol. But

> when British researchers monitored a group of Masai men who moved to

> Nairobi and began consuming a more modern diet, they discovered that

> the men's cholesterol subsequently skyrocketed.

>

>

>

> Similar observations were made of the Samburu -- another Kenyan tribe

> -- as well as the Fulani of Nigeria. While the findings from these

> cultures seem to contradict the fact that eating saturated fat leads

> to heart disease, it may surprise you to know that this " fact " isn't a

> fact at all. It is, more accurately, a hypothesis from the 1950s

> that's never been proved. "

>

>

> Read FULL TEXT here:

>

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth & channel=health & category\

=heart.disease & conitem=a03ddd2eaab85110VgnVCM10000013281eac____ & page=6

>

>

>

>

> Also, don't miss this additional article too:

>

> Fat Foods You Can Eat

> 8 " unhealthy " foods that are actually good for you

> By: Jeff Volek, Ph.D., R.D. & Adam Campbel

>

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth & channel=nutrition & categ\

ory=food.for.fitness & conitem=4eeddfd87d4a5110VgnVCM10000013281eac____#

>

>

> When will the insanity stop? :|

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve:

These people are talking about the " solid science " behind Taubes'

book? My impression is that there is precious little science on

this subject that, not long after, and sometimes before, publication,

is contradicted by a study saying the opposite. CR is one of the

rare exceptions to this rule, which may be one reason people are

members here.

But in terms of supporting evidence for Taubes' viewpoint, posting

PubMed ID numbers to a few of the more convincing and confirmed

studies he is referring to would be helpful.

Rodney.

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@...>

wrote:

>

> Why do you not give some specific information as to the biochemical

process, instead of this advertisement?

>

>

> [ ] Re: " What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good

for You? " -Men's Health Article

>

>

> How much fat is in your diet and how much fat ends up in your

blood

> are not connected as simply as many assume. Most people in this

group

> know this. For example, they accept that trans fats are worse than

> omega-3s and omega-5s. The theme that not all calories are the

same

> and that easily digested carbohydrates are probably the worst for

you

> in terms of fat accumulation is central to the new book " Good

> Calories, Bad Calories, " by Taubes (I review it and point to other

> reviews on my blog, ifdiet.blogspot.com). That book, and these

> articles in " Men's Health, " are signs that the pendulum is

swinging

> away from " fat-free is best. "

>

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Why do you not give some specific information as to the biochemical process, instead of this advertisement?

[ ] Re: "What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?" -Men's Health Article

How much fat is in your diet and how much fat ends up in your bloodare not connected as simply as many assume. Most people in this groupknow this. For example, they accept that trans fats are worse thanomega-3s and omega-5s. The theme that not all calories are the sameand that easily digested carbohydrates are probably the worst for youin terms of fat accumulation is central to the new book "GoodCalories, Bad Calories," by Taubes (I review it and point to otherreviews on my blog, ifdiet.blogspot.com). That book, and thesearticles in "Men's Health," are signs that the pendulum is swingingaway from "fat-free is best."

..