Re:A Prospective Study of Red and Processed Meat Intake in Relation to

[Guest guest]

For me, it was stimulating to see the mail from Bill. It helps reinforce my drive to replace meat, and in particular red meat, with vegetarian protein.

However, I do wonder how much of the baddies of red meat are caused by high-fat red meat (meaning that lean red meat would be less negative) and how much by the red meat as such. The former is implicated by the saturated fat and iron, and the latter by mutagens including NOCs, HCAs and PAHs (assuming that these are formed when preparing red meats irrespective of the degree of fat content), in the study referred to by Bill. The discussion is longer around the mautagens, perhaps indicating that the researchers believe that it is the red meat as such that is a major cause of the increased risk of cancer. // Ulf

From: bill4cr <bill4cr >Reply-< >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:15:50 -0000< >Subject: [ ] A Prospective Study of Red and Processed MeatIntake in Relation to Cancer RiskNot sure how many CRON'ers get most of their protein from red meat, Ipersonally eat read meat maybe once a month approx. (i eat fish aboutas often) Plants make up vast majority of my diet and protein.Interesting study that breaks down various cancer risks by "red meatintake quintiles" (see Table 2 & Figure 1)In conclusion, a diet high in red or processed meat was associatedwith an elevated risk of both colorectal and lung cancer; in addition,red meat was associated with an elevated risk of esophageal and livercancer. A decrease in the consumption of red and processed meat couldreduce the incidence of cancer at multiple sites.full text here:http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document & doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0040325 & ct=1<http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document & amp;doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0040325 & amp;ct=1>I hope this stimulates some discussion here..

Excerpt from study:

Both red meat, regardless of processing procedure, and processed meat can be linked to carcinogenesis by different mechanisms; for example, they are both sources of saturated fat and iron, which have independently been associated with carcinogenesis. Associations between saturated fat and cancer are likely to be related to energy balance in general, whereas iron is thought to contribute to carcinogenesis specifically by generating free radicals and inducing oxidative stress [94]. Most recently, dietary fat was positively associated with breast cancer [95], and iron intake was positively associated with liver [96] and colorectal cancers [97].

Meat is also a source of several known mutagens, including N-nitroso compounds (NOCs), heterocyclic amines (HCAs), and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). Exposure to NOCs occurs from endogenous formation, which is directly related to red meat intake [98], and from exogenous exposure from nitrite-preserved meats, for example [1]. Red meat is a large source of readily available heme iron, which has been associated with increased endogenous NOC formation [99]. Human exposure to NOCs and subsequent cancer risk has not been studied extensively; although a Finnish cohort reported an increased risk of colorectal cancer with exogenous exposure to N-nitrosodimethylamine (from smoked and salted meats) [6]. In addition, NOC intake and excretion were significantly greater in an area within China considered as high-risk for esophageal cancer [100]. HCAs and PAHs, which are formed during high-temperature cooking of meat [101], dose-dependently generate DNA adducts [3] and tumors in rodents [2,102] in a wide variety of tissues and organs, with similarities between experimental animals and humans [103]. Epidemiologic studies with the capacity to estimate HCA and PAH intake from meat cooking information have found elevated risks of colorectal neoplasia [104–106], squamous cell esophageal cancer [107], as well as cancers of the lung [8], pancreas [4], and prostate [5].

[Guest guest]

Ulf Rasmusson wrote:

>

> For me, it was stimulating to see the mail from Bill. It helps

> reinforce my drive to replace meat, and in particular red meat, with

> vegetarian protein.

> However, I do wonder how much of the baddies of red meat are caused by

> high-fat red meat (meaning that lean red meat would be less negative)

> and how much by the red meat as such.

If this is the case then it would not be the " red " meat itself but the

way we raise that meat that is the problem. Non grain fed animals have a

different fat composition.

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Ulf,

The same associations apply to whole milk versus ffmilk.

I believe the problem is in the toxins absorbed into the fat. Per Guyton, fatty acids can diffuse through capillary walls into cells readily, and anything dissolved in the fat goes with it. OTOH, the size of the pores restrict non fatty nutrients.

Of course there's an inflammation associated with obesity.

My take is to eat a low fat diet.

Americans eat a lot of soybean oil one way or another. In fact, the U.S. and Brazil are the major world soy producers.

The argument against grain fed, I do not buy, because cattle do a lot of range before feed out, and other meat animals eat primarily a prepared diet of soybean products. I see these animals being raised around me everyday. They eat bahia grass, coastal bermuda, and other pasture grasses.

They are fed out in a smaller area for about 4 months. Even in that time they graze a lot on pasture grasses.

Actually, if you don't give them grass, they'll break the fence to get to the neighbors grass.

Regards

[ ] A Prospective Study of Red and Processed MeatIntake in Relation to Cancer RiskNot sure how many CRON'ers get most of their protein from red meat, Ipersonally eat read meat maybe once a month approx. (i eat fish aboutas often) Plants make up vast majority of my diet and protein.Interesting study that breaks down various cancer risks by "red meatintake quintiles" (see Table 2 & Figure 1)In conclusion, a diet high in red or processed meat was associatedwith an elevated risk of both colorectal and lung cancer; in addition,red meat was associated with an elevated risk of esophageal and livercancer. A decrease in the consumption of red and processed meat couldreduce the incidence of cancer at multiple sites.full text here:http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document & doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0040325 & ct=1<http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document & amp;doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0040325 & amp;ct=1>I hope this stimulates some discussion here..

Excerpt from study:

Both red meat, regardless of processing procedure, and processed meat can be linked to carcinogenesis by different mechanisms; for example, they are both sources of saturated fat and iron, which have independently been associated with carcinogenesis. Associations between saturated fat and cancer are likely to be related to energy balance in general, whereas iron is thought to contribute to carcinogenesis specifically by generating free radicals and inducing oxidative stress [94]. Most recently, dietary fat was positively associated with breast cancer [95], and iron intake was positively associated with liver [96] and colorectal cancers [97].

Meat is also a source of several known mutagens, including N-nitroso compounds (NOCs), heterocyclic amines (HCAs), and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). Exposure to NOCs occurs from endogenous formation, which is directly related to red meat intake [98], and from exogenous exposure from nitrite-preserved meats, for example [1]. Red meat is a large source of readily available heme iron, which has been associated with increased endogenous NOC formation [99]. Human exposure to NOCs and subsequent cancer risk has not been studied extensively; although a Finnish cohort reported an increased risk of colorectal cancer with exogenous exposure to N-nitrosodimethylamine (from smoked and salted meats) [6]. In addition, NOC intake and excretion were significantly greater in an area within China considered as high-risk for esophageal cancer [100]. HCAs and PAHs, which are formed during high-temperature cooking of meat [101], dose-dependently generate DNA adducts [3] and tumors in rodents [2,102] in a wide variety of tissues and organs, with similarities between experimental animals and humans [103]. Epidemiologic studies with the capacity to estimate HCA and PAH intake from meat cooking information have found elevated risks of colorectal neoplasia [104–106], squamous cell esophageal cancer [107], as well as cancers of the lung [8], pancreas [4], and prostate [5].