Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

[Guest guest]

A couple of things wrong with this:

1) 141 people isn’t much of a study to base anything on.

2) they don’t say how old these people were. Older adults can mean anything from 65 to 105.

From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

--even those with no outward signs of dementia have abnormalities.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/

[Guest guest]

I would agree with your second comment, not knowing more about the

details of the study. However, I strongly disagree with your first

comment. If you take a group of 100+ individuals that died of various

causes and you perform autopsies to find that 85% of them show

abnormalities in their brains, hearts, or other organs -- that is

very, very significant. For a straight epidemiological study, 141 may

not be a large enough sample, but it certainly is quite a large number

in this case of autopsy.

-Dave

>

> A couple of things wrong with this:

>

> 1) 141 people isn¹t much of a study to base anything on.

>

> 2) they don¹t say how old these people were. Older adults can mean

anything

> from 65 to 105.

>

>

>

> From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

> Reply-< >

> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000

> < >

> Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of

Most

> Seniors

>

>

>

>

>

> Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

> --even those with no outward signs of dementia have abnormalities.

>

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/

>

[Guest guest]

Dave; whether you agree or not that’s the acceptable standard in science. If one doesn’t take a large enough sample in a study, the results could be meaningless or skewed. Which is why we like to post studies here with large enough numbers to be meaningful.

And if you take a sample of 141 cadavers most of whom were very old at death, well...... that would skew the results of a study like this one even more.

From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:51:48 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

I would agree with your second comment, not knowing more about the

details of the study. However, I strongly disagree with your first

comment. If you take a group of 100+ individuals that died of various

causes and you perform autopsies to find that 85% of them show

abnormalities in their brains, hearts, or other organs -- that is

very, very significant. For a straight epidemiological study, 141 may

not be a large enough sample, but it certainly is quite a large number

in this case of autopsy.

-Dave

>

> A couple of things wrong with this:

>

> 1) 141 people isn’t much of a study to base anything on.

>

> 2) they don’t say how old these people were. Older adults can mean

anything

> from 65 to 105.

>

>

>

> From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

> Reply-< <mailto: %40> >

> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000

> < <mailto: %40> >

> Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of

Most

> Seniors

>

>

>

>

>

> Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

> --even those with no outward signs of dementia have abnormalities.

>

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/

>

[Guest guest]

This is actually a fairly straightforward problem from a statistical

sense. First, the assumption is that the 141 individuals died of

natural causes, uncorrelated with their specific 'hidden' brain

abnormalities. We also assume that, the average age at death was a

typical one, which would make them 'seniors' by definition. If 85% of

the 141 had brain abnormalities, how confident can we be that ~85% of

ALL seniors (not far from death) also have brain abnormalities? Here

are the statistics:

The so-called standard error is the square root of [p*(1-p)/n],

where p is the probability (0.85) and n is the sample size (141).

Therefore, in this case the standard error comes to 0.03 (3%).

But using the standard error gives only a 68% confidence of the

result. For a 95% confidence, you use ~twice the standard error.

Hence, at the 95% confidence level, the number of seniors (near death)

with brain abnormalities is 85% +/- 6%. At the 99% confidence level,

you need to use ~2.6 standard errors. Based on the sample size of

141, we can be 99% sure that 85% +/- 8% of all seniors near death have

brain abnormalities. That is hugely significant in my view, and it

simply cannot be dismissed.

-Dave

> >

> > A couple of things wrong with this:

> >

> > 1) 141 people isn¹t much of a study to base anything on.

> >

> > 2) they don¹t say how old these people were. Older adults can mean

> anything

> > from 65 to 105.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: orb85750 <orb85750@>

> > Reply-<

> <mailto: %40> >

> > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000

> > <

<mailto: %40>

> >

> > Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of

> Most

> > Seniors

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

> > --even those with no outward signs of dementia have abnormalities.

> >

> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dave: We have a very small number of rules for posting here - one of which is if you can’t explain something in simple layman’s terms, DON’T POST IT. You don’t give any citation for your complicated formulas below (gobblydegook to me and I have a degree in a scientific field). So I can’t be the only person here who is scratching her head wondering where this came from.

I am posting the rules of good health information (taken from the National Networks of Libraries of Medicine). I have emphasized and underlined the pertinent ones.

Also there’s a third objection to this study. If the conclusions are true (which I question based on the other 2 objections) - what are we supposed to do with this information? (Die young ??).

Please do not reply on the board. If you want to continue this, reply to me off list.

We have both stated our cases.

Is this health information good for me?

http://nnlm.gov/pnr/hip/criteria.html

In the field of health, we consider:

Health news or information is best for you if you are just like the people being talked about in reports of research studies.

The news or information should say who was involved in the study--what gender, age, disease…

News or information about a good therapy should compare the new therapy and other therapies.

There is usually new research to help you and your health provider make better decisions. If you have information older than about 3 years, try to find some more recent information to go along with it.

A good health study should have involved lots of patients, especially for a common disease.

Read the whole thing.

Any article which shows 100% success or 100% failure is not honest!

An article about one person and his or her health problem, success, or failure can't be used as good evidence for anyone else's situation.

Read opinions on different sides before making a decision.

Look not only for information on effectiveness of treatments, but also for information on side effects. The medical literature shows that sometimes no treatment (or a placebo) is better in the long run than treatment.

It's good to look for agreement or consensus. There are many different opinions on any health topic, so we try to find a report that brings lots of knowledge together. These reports might be called review articles, practice guidelines, consensus conference reports, or meta-analyses.

Another kind of agreement is simply an historic continuity, especially in the area of complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). If a therapy has been successfully used for hundreds of years, it's reasonable to put some credence in it. Similarly, if a therapy has been used across several cultures, that also shows consensus or agreement.

It's difficult to design a study using academic scientific method in many traditional medical fields. For example, how does one have a control group in the study of acupuncture? The mind-body methods, prayer, and distance healing all depend on the orientation and opinion of the patient toward the treatment. Look for continuity in practice and cumulated evidence.

The perfect article for you and your situation might not exist. We often have to work with the best evidence available.

From: orb85750 <orb85750@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:45:51 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

This is actually a fairly straightforward problem from a statistical

sense. First, the assumption is that the 141 individuals died of

natural causes, uncorrelated with their specific 'hidden' brain

abnormalities. We also assume that, the average age at death was a

typical one, which would make them 'seniors' by definition. If 85% of

the 141 had brain abnormalities, how confident can we be that ~85% of

ALL seniors (not far from death) also have brain abnormalities? Here

are the statistics:

The so-called standard error is the square root of [p*(1-p)/n],

where p is the probability (0.85) and n is the sample size (141).

Therefore, in this case the standard error comes to 0.03 (3%).

But using the standard error gives only a 68% confidence of the

result. For a 95% confidence, you use ~twice the standard error.

Hence, at the 95% confidence level, the number of seniors (near death)

with brain abnormalities is 85% +/- 6%. At the 99% confidence level,

you need to use ~2.6 standard errors. Based on the sample size of

141, we can be 99% sure that 85% +/- 8% of all seniors near death have

brain abnormalities. That is hugely significant in my view, and it

simply cannot be dismissed.

-Dave

> >

> > A couple of things wrong with this:

> >

> > 1) 141 people isn’t much of a study to base anything on.

> >

> > 2) they don’t say how old these people were. Older adults can mean

> anything

> > from 65 to 105.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: orb85750 <orb85750@>

> > Reply-< <mailto: %40>

> <mailto: %40> >

> > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000

> > < <mailto: %40>

<mailto: %40>

> >

> > Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of

> Most

> > Seniors

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

> > --even those with no outward signs of dementia have abnormalities.

> >

> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

The problem I have with this (journalist's) article - but I am sure

the study report covered this - is what it says, and what it does

not say:

It said: " ...... researchers evaluated the spectrum of

abnormalities found in the brains of 141 older adults, with and

without clinically evident dementia. " It then stated that only

14.2% did not have brain abnormalities on autopsy.

BUT IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE 141 HAD SYMPTOMS OF

DEMENTIA BEFORE THEY DIED (!!!!!)

If 86% had had dementia symptoms before they died then the autopsy

findings were very unremarkable. But if only 5% had symptomatic

dementia before death then the findings may turn out to be very

remarkable indeed.

What I get out of this, tentatively, based on the small amount of

information the article discloses, is not to be complacent about

maintaining adequate brain function into old age. Fortunately for

us, there is reason to suspect that CR is one of the most effective

ways to maintain brain function.

The journalist who wrote this piece I am sure passed his english

exams with flying colors. But I am willing to bet that he never in

his life passed a math exam - except for the more recent type of

math exam to which: " there are no wrong answers " .

Rodney.

> > >

> > > A couple of things wrong with this:

> > >

> > > 1) 141 people isn¹t much of a study to base anything on.

> > >

> > > 2) they don¹t say how old these people were. Older adults can

mean

> > anything

> > > from 65 to 105.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: orb85750 <orb85750@>

> > > Reply-<

> <mailto: %40>

> > <mailto: %40> >

> > > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000

> > > <

> <mailto: %40>

> <mailto: %40>

> > >

> > > Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the

Minds of

> > Most

> > > Seniors

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors

> > > --even those with no outward signs of dementia have

abnormalities.

> > >

> > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All, The below may explain some. Schneider JA, Arvanitakis Z, Bang W, DA.Mixed brain pathologies account for most dementia cases in community-dwelling older persons.Neurology. 2007 Dec 11;69(24):2197-204. Epub 2007 Jun 13. PMID: 17568013 OBJECTIVE: To examine the spectrum of neuropathology in persons from the Rush Memory and Aging Project, a longitudinal community-based clinical-pathologic cohort study. METHODS: The study includes older persons who agreed to annual clinical evaluation and brain donation. We examined the neuropathologic diagnoses, including Alzheimer disease (AD) (NIA-Reagan Criteria), cerebral infarctions, and Parkinson disease/Lewy body disease (PD/LBD), in the first 141 autopsies. We calculated the frequency of each diagnosis alone and mixed diagnoses. We used logistic regression to compare one to multiple diagnoses

on the odds of dementia. RESULTS: Twenty persons (14.2%) had no acute or chronic brain abnormalities. The most common chronic neuropathologic diagnoses were AD (n = 80), cerebral infarctions (n = 52), and PD/LBD (n = 24). In persons with dementia (n = 50), 38.0% (n = 19) had AD and infarcts, 30.0% (n = 15) had pure AD, and 12% each had vascular dementia (n = 6) and AD with PD/LBD (n = 6). In those without dementia (n = 91), 28.6% (n = 26) had no chronic diagnostic abnormalities, 24.2% (n = 22) had pure AD, and 17.6% (n = 16) had infarctions. In persons with dementia, over 50% had multiple diagnoses (AD, PD/LBD, or infarcts), whereas, in persons without dementia, over 80% had one or no diagnosis. After accounting for age, persons with multiple diagnoses were almost three times (OR = 2.8; 95% CI = 1.2, 6.7) more likely to exhibit dementia compared to those with one pathologic diagnosis. CONCLUSION: The majority of community-dwelling older persons have brain pathology. Those

with dementia most often have multiple brain pathologies, which greatly increases the odds of dementia.Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote: Hi folks:The problem I have with this (journalist's) article - but I am sure the study report covered this - is what it says, and what it does not say:It said: " ...... researchers evaluated the spectrum of abnormalities found in the brains of 141 older adults, with and without clinically evident dementia." It then stated that only 14.2% did not have brain

abnormalities on autopsy.BUT IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE 141 HAD SYMPTOMS OF DEMENTIA BEFORE THEY DIED (!!!!!)If 86% had had dementia symptoms before they died then the autopsy findings were very unremarkable. But if only 5% had symptomatic dementia before death then the findings may turn out to be very remarkable indeed.What I get out of this, tentatively, based on the small amount of information the article discloses, is not to be complacent about maintaining adequate brain function into old age. Fortunately for us, there is reason to suspect that CR is one of the most effective ways to maintain brain function. The journalist who wrote this piece I am sure passed his english exams with flying colors. But I am willing to bet that he never in his life passed a math exam - except for the more recent type of math exam to which: "there are no wrong answers".Rodney.> > >> > > A couple of things wrong with this:> > > > > > 1) 141 people isn¹t much of a study to base anything on.> > > > > > 2) they don¹t say how old these people were. Older adults can mean> > anything> > > from 65 to 105.> > > > > > > > > > >

> From: orb85750 <orb85750@>> > > Reply-< > <mailto: %40>> > <mailto: %40> >> > > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:03:18 -0000> > > < > <mailto: %40>> <mailto: %40>> > >> > > Subject: [ ] Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of> > Most> > > Seniors> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors> > > --even those with no outward

signs of dementia have abnormalities.> > > > > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22421976/> > >> >>

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

There are studies of older people who are examined, and after death relate

the brain pathology to their previous examination.

Another one:

Neuropathology of older persons without cognitive impairment from two

community-based studies.

PMID: 16801647

" CONCLUSIONS: Alzheimer disease pathology can be found in the brains of

older persons without dementia or mild cognitive impairment and is related

to subtle changes in episodic memory. "

{I haven't seen a clue, nutrition wise, how to avoid it, or treat it

effectively. That will follow the studies, I suppose.}

" CONCLUSIONS: Regardless of the neuropathologic criteria used, education is

predictive of dementia status among individuals with neuropathologic

Alzheimer disease. These results support the theory that individuals with

greater cognitive reserve, as reflected in years of education, are better

able to cope with AD brain pathology without observable deficits in

cognition. " PMID: 17224578

Regards

Re: [ ] Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of

Most Seniors

Hi All,

The below may explain some.

Schneider JA, Arvanitakis Z, Bang W, DA.

Mixed brain pathologies account for most dementia cases in

community-dwelling older persons.

Neurology. 2007 Dec 11;69(24):2197-204. Epub 2007 Jun 13.

PMID: 17568013

OBJECTIVE: To examine the spectrum of neuropathology in persons from the

Rush Memory and Aging Project, a longitudinal community-based

clinical-pathologic cohort study. METHODS: The study includes older persons

who agreed to annual clinical evaluation and brain donation. We examined the

neuropathologic diagnoses, including Alzheimer disease (AD) (NIA-Reagan

Criteria), cerebral infarctions, and Parkinson disease/Lewy body disease

(PD/LBD), in the first 141 autopsies. We calculated the frequency of each

diagnosis alone and mixed diagnoses. We used logistic regression to compare

one to multiple diagnoses on the odds of dementia. RESULTS: Twenty persons

(14.2%) had no acute or chronic brain abnormalities. The most common chronic

neuropathologic diagnoses were AD (n = 80), cerebral infarctions (n = 52),

and PD/LBD (n = 24). In persons with dementia (n = 50), 38.0% (n = 19) had

AD and infarcts, 30.0% (n = 15) had pure AD, and 12% each had vascular

dementia (n = 6) and AD with PD/LBD (n = 6). In those without dementia (n =

91), 28.6% (n = 26) had no chronic diagnostic abnormalities, 24.2% (n = 22)

had pure AD, and 17.6% (n = 16) had infarctions. In persons with dementia,

over 50% had multiple diagnoses (AD, PD/LBD, or infarcts), whereas, in

persons without dementia, over 80% had one or no diagnosis. After accounting

for age, persons with multiple diagnoses were almost three times (OR = 2.8;

95% CI = 1.2, 6.7) more likely to exhibit dementia compared to those with

one pathologic diagnosis. CONCLUSION: The majority of community-dwelling

older persons have brain pathology. Those with dementia most often have

multiple brain pathologies, which greatly increases the odds of dementia.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

> > {I haven't seen a clue, nutrition wise, how to avoid it, or > treat it effectively. That will follow the studies, I > suppose.}>

Have we not seen posted here previously, that the risk factors for susceptibility to alzheimer's are almost identical to the risk factors for CVD?

If that is correct it strongly suggests that CR is a major preventative factor for alzheimer's. Of course we probably all know of people who were slim and had alzheimer's. But we probably also have known slim people with CVD.

See post # 23503, for example.

Rodney.

>> There are studies of older people who are examined, and after death relate> the brain pathology to their previous examination.> Another one:> Neuropathology of older persons without cognitive impairment from two> community-based studies.> PMID: 16801647> > "CONCLUSIONS: Alzheimer disease pathology can be found in the brains of> older persons without dementia or mild cognitive impairment and is related> to subtle changes in episodic memory."> > {I haven't seen a clue, nutrition wise, how to avoid it, or treat it> effectively. That will follow the studies, I suppose.}> > "CONCLUSIONS: Regardless of the neuropathologic criteria used, education is> predictive of dementia status among individuals with neuropathologic> Alzheimer disease. These results support the theory that individuals with> greater cognitive reserve, as reflected in years of education, are better> able to cope with AD brain pathology without observable deficits in> cognition." PMID: 17224578> > > Regards> > > Re: [ ] Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of> Most Seniors> > > Hi All,> > The below may explain some.> > > Schneider JA, Arvanitakis Z, Bang W, DA.> Mixed brain pathologies account for most dementia cases in> community-dwelling older persons.> Neurology. 2007 Dec 11;69(24):2197-204. Epub 2007 Jun 13.> PMID: 17568013> > OBJECTIVE: To examine the spectrum of neuropathology in persons from the> Rush Memory and Aging Project, a longitudinal community-based> clinical-pathologic cohort study. METHODS: The study includes older persons> who agreed to annual clinical evaluation and brain donation. We examined the> neuropathologic diagnoses, including Alzheimer disease (AD) (NIA-Reagan> Criteria), cerebral infarctions, and Parkinson disease/Lewy body disease> (PD/LBD), in the first 141 autopsies. We calculated the frequency of each> diagnosis alone and mixed diagnoses. We used logistic regression to compare> one to multiple diagnoses on the odds of dementia. RESULTS: Twenty persons> (14.2%) had no acute or chronic brain abnormalities. The most common chronic> neuropathologic diagnoses were AD (n = 80), cerebral infarctions (n = 52),> and PD/LBD (n = 24). In persons with dementia (n = 50), 38.0% (n = 19) had> AD and infarcts, 30.0% (n = 15) had pure AD, and 12% each had vascular> dementia (n = 6) and AD with PD/LBD (n = 6). In those without dementia (n => 91), 28.6% (n = 26) had no chronic diagnostic abnormalities, 24.2% (n = 22)> had pure AD, and 17.6% (n = 16) had infarctions. In persons with dementia,> over 50% had multiple diagnoses (AD, PD/LBD, or infarcts), whereas, in> persons without dementia, over 80% had one or no diagnosis. After accounting> for age, persons with multiple diagnoses were almost three times (OR = 2.8;> 95% CI = 1.2, 6.7) more likely to exhibit dementia compared to those with> one pathologic diagnosis. CONCLUSION: The majority of community-dwelling> older persons have brain pathology. Those with dementia most often have> multiple brain pathologies, which greatly increases the odds of dementia.>

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

" Study: Brain Disease Lurks in the Minds of Most Seniors "

And regarding the subject line, above, of that post, it is also fair

to say that: 'Plaque Lurks in the Arteries of Most Seniors', even if

they are symptom-free.

The carotid IMT data for the middle aged control group in the WUSTL

study appear to be the evidence for that.

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi JW: >

> > {I haven't seen a clue, nutrition wise, how to avoid it, or >

treat

> it effectively. That will follow the studies, I >

suppose.}

> > Have we not seen posted here previously, that the risk factors

for

> susceptibility to alzheimer's are almost identical to the risk

factors

> for CVD? If that is correct it strongly suggests that CR is a

major

> preventative factor for alzheimer's. Of course we probably all

know of

> people who were slim and had alzheimer's. But we probably also

have

> known slim people with CVD. See post # 23503, for example.

Rodney.

> --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@>

wrote:

> >

> > There are studies of older people who are examined, and after

death

> relate

> > the brain pathology to their previous examination.

> > Another one:

> > Neuropathology of older persons without cognitive impairment

from two

> > community-based studies.

> > PMID: 16801647

> >

> > " CONCLUSIONS: Alzheimer disease pathology can be found in the

brains

> of

> > older persons without dementia or mild cognitive impairment and

is

> related

> > to subtle changes in episodic memory. "

> >

> > {I haven't seen a clue, nutrition wise, how to avoid it, or

treat it

> > effectively. That will follow the studies, I suppose.}

> >

> > " CONCLUSIONS: Regardless of the neuropathologic criteria used,

> education is

> > predictive of dementia status among individuals with

neuropathologic

> > Alzheimer disease. These results support the theory that

individuals

> with

> > greater cognitive reserve, as reflected in years of education,

are

> better

> > able to cope with AD brain pathology without observable deficits

in

> > cognition. " PMID: 17224578

> >

> >

> > Regards

> >

> >

> > Re: [ ] Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in

the

> Minds of

> > Most Seniors

> >

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > The below may explain some.

> >

> >

> > Schneider JA, Arvanitakis Z, Bang W, DA.

> > Mixed brain pathologies account for most dementia cases in

> > community-dwelling older persons.

> > Neurology. 2007 Dec 11;69(24):2197-204. Epub 2007 Jun 13.

> > PMID: 17568013

> >

> > OBJECTIVE: To examine the spectrum of neuropathology in persons

from

> the

> > Rush Memory and Aging Project, a longitudinal community-based

> > clinical-pathologic cohort study. METHODS: The study includes

older

> persons

> > who agreed to annual clinical evaluation and brain donation. We

> examined the

> > neuropathologic diagnoses, including Alzheimer disease (AD)

> (NIA-Reagan

> > Criteria), cerebral infarctions, and Parkinson disease/Lewy body

> disease

> > (PD/LBD), in the first 141 autopsies. We calculated the

frequency of

> each

> > diagnosis alone and mixed diagnoses. We used logistic regression

to

> compare

> > one to multiple diagnoses on the odds of dementia. RESULTS:

Twenty

> persons

> > (14.2%) had no acute or chronic brain abnormalities. The most

common

> chronic

> > neuropathologic diagnoses were AD (n = 80), cerebral infarctions

(n =

> 52),

> > and PD/LBD (n = 24). In persons with dementia (n = 50), 38.0% (n

= 19)

> had

> > AD and infarcts, 30.0% (n = 15) had pure AD, and 12% each had

vascular

> > dementia (n = 6) and AD with PD/LBD (n = 6). In those without

dementia

> (n =

> > 91), 28.6% (n = 26) had no chronic diagnostic abnormalities,

24.2% (n

> = 22)

> > had pure AD, and 17.6% (n = 16) had infarctions. In persons with

> dementia,

> > over 50% had multiple diagnoses (AD, PD/LBD, or infarcts),

whereas, in

> > persons without dementia, over 80% had one or no diagnosis. After

> accounting

> > for age, persons with multiple diagnoses were almost three times

(OR =

> 2.8;

> > 95% CI = 1.2, 6.7) more likely to exhibit dementia compared to

those

> with

> > one pathologic diagnosis. CONCLUSION: The majority of

> community-dwelling

> > older persons have brain pathology. Those with dementia most

often

> have

> > multiple brain pathologies, which greatly increases the odds of

> dementia.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's what I read, the same things for every unknown cause disease.

Eat right, get exercise, etc.

I met a rancher last week picking up his favorite wheat flakes, and he

expounded on the benefits of the soluble fiber in that particular brand. Get

it?

Even a guy who's never done anything but raise cows has heard those lines.

He explained it keeps his cholesterol in control. He was 85, thin, light on

his feet and he drove >40 miles to get that cereal at HEB.

A person in my Spanish class, a teacher, is having a very difficult time

learning a new language. She had a heart attack 20 yrs ago, is overweight

and swears by the Atkin's diet to get weight normal. She has HTN, and is

recovering from a broken foot, that she can't explain what happened. She was

repeating these same what I will now call " folk lore " the nutrition field.

You can get a scan, sure, and then you'll have to treat it - with what?

Or you can try to prevent it, with what?

These things you suggest are good, but recognize that thousands of people

are doing those - it's caused business, in the retirement areas of FL, eg.

Yes, better medical care is showing up problems, but avoiding those problems

is unknown. And fixing them is not known or a risk in itself.

Suppose I find a problem like a shadow on a kidney, suggesting cancer. Do

you remove the kidney now and risk death, or wait and maybe it won't kill

you before 85? Do you replace a knee joint and risk a clot, or tough it out?

The second time, you might very well think, I'll try not being so active.

Look through medline and find out how to avoid Parkinson's, ARMD, AD.

Mostly, the best thing is be sure to control blood pressure.

The major risk factor is aging, period.

Regards

Re: [ ] Re: Study: Brain Disease Lurks in

the

> Minds of

> > Most Seniors

> >

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > The below may explain some.

> >

> >

> > Schneider JA, Arvanitakis Z, Bang W, DA.

> > Mixed brain pathologies account for most dementia cases in

> > community-dwelling older persons.

> > Neurology. 2007 Dec 11;69(24):2197-204. Epub 2007 Jun 13.

> > PMID: 17568013

> >

> > OBJECTIVE: To examine the spectrum of neuropathology in persons

from

> the

> > Rush Memory and Aging Project, a longitudinal community-based

> > clinical-pathologic cohort study. METHODS: The study includes

older

> persons

> > who agreed to annual clinical evaluation and brain donation. We

> examined the

> > neuropathologic diagnoses, including Alzheimer disease (AD)

> (NIA-Reagan

> > Criteria), cerebral infarctions, and Parkinson disease/Lewy body

> disease

> > (PD/LBD), in the first 141 autopsies. We calculated the

frequency of

> each

> > diagnosis alone and mixed diagnoses. We used logistic regression

to

> compare

> > one to multiple diagnoses on the odds of dementia. RESULTS:

Twenty

> persons

> > (14.2%) had no acute or chronic brain abnormalities. The most

common

> chronic

> > neuropathologic diagnoses were AD (n = 80), cerebral infarctions

(n =

> 52),

> > and PD/LBD (n = 24). In persons with dementia (n = 50), 38.0% (n

= 19)

> had

> > AD and infarcts, 30.0% (n = 15) had pure AD, and 12% each had

vascular

> > dementia (n = 6) and AD with PD/LBD (n = 6). In those without

dementia

> (n =

> > 91), 28.6% (n = 26) had no chronic diagnostic abnormalities,

24.2% (n

> = 22)

> > had pure AD, and 17.6% (n = 16) had infarctions. In persons with

> dementia,

> > over 50% had multiple diagnoses (AD, PD/LBD, or infarcts),

whereas, in

> > persons without dementia, over 80% had one or no diagnosis. After

> accounting

> > for age, persons with multiple diagnoses were almost three times

(OR =

> 2.8;

> > 95% CI = 1.2, 6.7) more likely to exhibit dementia compared to

those

> with

> > one pathologic diagnosis. CONCLUSION: The majority of

> community-dwelling

> > older persons have brain pathology. Those with dementia most

often

> have

> > multiple brain pathologies, which greatly increases the odds of

> dementia.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

Well what you read must be different from what I read.

The overwhelming majority of the stuff I read says, in brief: "EAT FEWER CALORIES .... while making sure to get the RDAs at the same time."

; ^ )))

Granted, there is a lot of stuff I could read that I choose not to. But one has to be selective, and as soon as something other than CR starts making validated claims to extending lifespan by 40% or more in mammals I will start paying attention to it.

Incidentally, probably the only person I have ever succeeded in convincing to curtail their caloric intake has lost 14 pounds in the past year and their blood pressure has moved substantially in the direction of 100/60.

It works.

Rodney.

>> That's what I read, the same things for every unknown cause > disease. Eat right, get exercise, etc.>