Re: Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc w/caloric intake

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave

ly I would be afraid to incorporate the results of this study into my CR

diet. I eat nuts and the fruits early in the day. From my early days of reading

books by the natural hygienists, I stopped consuming fruit after a meal, since

the fruit tends to ferment in the stomach and cause acidity. That would be worse

for people whose source of protein is from animal sources. However, a fruit for

a snack 2 hours after a meal would make sense. It also seems that the

recommendations by the Blueberry Association nutritionist to include fruits,

vegetables, grains and nuts in every meal would make it difficult to practice

CR. In my personal experience I limit the amount of grains in my diet. They are

not banned, but they are limited.

Cheers,

Arturo

Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc w/caloric intake

Posted by: " Dave " davemaddux@... DaveMaddux

Wed Dec 5, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

2 1/2 total servings of grapes, berries, cherries, or kiwifruit with

meals can reduce the oxidative stress associated with caloric intake.

The more calories consumed, the more fruit required to reduce

oxidative stress.

<snip>

" We have demonstrated that consumption of certain berries and fruits

such as blueberries, mixed grape and kiwifruit, was associated with

increased plasma AOC in the postprandial state and consumption of an

energy source of macronutrients containing no antioxidants was

associated with a decline in plasma AOC, " wrote lead author Ron Prior

in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition.

Oxidative stress has been linked to an increased risk of various

diseases including cancer, Alzheimer's, and cardiovascular disease.

<snip>

The researchers report that neither dried plums nor dried plum juice

altered either measure of antioxidant activity. Blueberries or mixed

grape consumption (12.5 and 8.6 millimole Trolox Equivalents (TE AOC),

respectively) with the meal was associated with a increase in

hydrophilic AOC. Blueberries also increased the lipophilic AOC.

Cherries, eaten with the meal and providing 4.5 millimoles TE AOC,

increased the lipophilic, but not the hydrophilic, AOC.

A control meal, rich in the macronutrients - carbohydrates, protein

and fat - consumed without antioxidants was found to result in a

decrease of blood AOC, showing an increase in oxidative stress.

" It's not just what you eat but when you eat it that matters.

Phytochemicals in foods have varying degrees of bioavailability and

generally are cleared from the blood 2-4 hours after they're eaten, "

said Prior. " Ensuring that your body has a steady supply of

antioxidant-rich foods can help combat oxidative stress throughout the

day. "

" It takes about 2.5 servings of antioxidant containing fruits and/or

vegetables in a meal to prevent oxidative stress following the meal.

The more calories you take in the more dietary antioxidants you

need, " he added.

The research was welcomed by the Wild Blueberry Association, a trade

association of growers and processors of wild blueberries from Maine.

, nutrition advisor for the association advised:

" Incorporate fruits and vegetables and other whole foods like grains

and nuts into every meal to get the full phytochemical benefits you

need to fight oxidative stress and inflammation. "

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that the fruit is supposed to be eaten

to mitigate the effects of overindulgence-since light

healthy meals should not cause much oxidative stress

at all - if you regularly consume meals " rich in the

macronutrients - carbohydrates, protein and fat " then

oxidative stress will be the LEAST of your problems!

And you're right-fruit can cause bloating and

indigestion when eaten in combination with protein.

--- Arturo Veve <volae@...> wrote:

> Hi Dave

>

> ly I would be afraid to incorporate the results

> of this study into my CR diet. I eat nuts and the

> fruits early in the day. From my early days of

> reading books by the natural hygienists, I stopped

> consuming fruit after a meal, since the fruit tends

> to ferment in the stomach and cause acidity. That

> would be worse for people whose source of protein is

> from animal sources. However, a fruit for a snack 2

> hours after a meal would make sense. It also seems

> that the recommendations by the Blueberry

> Association nutritionist to include fruits,

> vegetables, grains and nuts in every meal would make

> it difficult to practice CR. In my personal

> experience I limit the amount of grains in my diet.

> They are not banned, but they are limited.

>

> Cheers,

> Arturo

>

> Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc

> w/caloric intake

> Posted by: " Dave " davemaddux@... DaveMaddux

> Wed Dec 5, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

>

> 2 1/2 total servings of grapes, berries, cherries,

> or kiwifruit with

> meals can reduce the oxidative stress associated

> with caloric intake.

> The more calories consumed, the more fruit required

> to reduce

> oxidative stress.

>

> <snip>

>

> " We have demonstrated that consumption of certain

> berries and fruits

> such as blueberries, mixed grape and kiwifruit, was

> associated with

> increased plasma AOC in the postprandial state and

> consumption of an

> energy source of macronutrients containing no

> antioxidants was

> associated with a decline in plasma AOC, " wrote lead

> author Ron Prior

> in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition.

>

> Oxidative stress has been linked to an increased

> risk of various

> diseases including cancer, Alzheimer's, and

> cardiovascular disease.

>

> <snip>

>

> The researchers report that neither dried plums nor

> dried plum juice

> altered either measure of antioxidant activity.

> Blueberries or mixed

> grape consumption (12.5 and 8.6 millimole Trolox

> Equivalents (TE AOC),

> respectively) with the meal was associated with a

> increase in

> hydrophilic AOC. Blueberries also increased the

> lipophilic AOC.

>

> Cherries, eaten with the meal and providing 4.5

> millimoles TE AOC,

> increased the lipophilic, but not the hydrophilic,

> AOC.

>

> A control meal, rich in the macronutrients -

> carbohydrates, protein

> and fat - consumed without antioxidants was found to

> result in a

> decrease of blood AOC, showing an increase in

> oxidative stress.

>

> " It's not just what you eat but when you eat it that

> matters.

> Phytochemicals in foods have varying degrees of

> bioavailability and

> generally are cleared from the blood 2-4 hours after

> they're eaten, "

> said Prior. " Ensuring that your body has a steady

> supply of

> antioxidant-rich foods can help combat oxidative

> stress throughout the

> day. "

>

> " It takes about 2.5 servings of antioxidant

> containing fruits and/or

> vegetables in a meal to prevent oxidative stress

> following the meal.

> The more calories you take in the more dietary

> antioxidants you

> need, " he added.

>

> The research was welcomed by the Wild Blueberry

> Association, a trade

> association of growers and processors of wild

> blueberries from Maine.

>

> , nutrition advisor for the association

> advised:

> " Incorporate fruits and vegetables and other whole

> foods like grains

> and nuts into every meal to get the full

> phytochemical benefits you

> need to fight oxidative stress and inflammation. "

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It seems obvious, though perhaps it's not, that if you are truly

practicing CRON (and not just CR), then your meals should already be

comprised largely of fruits and vegetables. I generally eat a few

servings of fruits and/or vegetables with (or as) each of my 5 daily

meals.

-Dave

>

> Hi Dave

>

> ly I would be afraid to incorporate the results of this study

into my CR diet. I eat nuts and the fruits early in the day. From my

early days of reading books by the natural hygienists, I stopped

consuming fruit after a meal, since the fruit tends to ferment in the

stomach and cause acidity. That would be worse for people whose source

of protein is from animal sources. However, a fruit for a snack 2

hours after a meal would make sense. It also seems that the

recommendations by the Blueberry Association nutritionist to include

fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts in every meal would make it

difficult to practice CR. In my personal experience I limit the amount

of grains in my diet. They are not banned, but they are limited.

>

> Cheers,

> Arturo

>

> Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc w/caloric intake

> Posted by: " Dave " davemaddux@... DaveMaddux

> Wed Dec 5, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

>

> 2 1/2 total servings of grapes, berries, cherries, or kiwifruit with

> meals can reduce the oxidative stress associated with caloric intake.

> The more calories consumed, the more fruit required to reduce

> oxidative stress.

>

> <snip>

>

> " We have demonstrated that consumption of certain berries and fruits

> such as blueberries, mixed grape and kiwifruit, was associated with

> increased plasma AOC in the postprandial state and consumption of an

> energy source of macronutrients containing no antioxidants was

> associated with a decline in plasma AOC, " wrote lead author Ron Prior

> in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition.

>

> Oxidative stress has been linked to an increased risk of various

> diseases including cancer, Alzheimer's, and cardiovascular disease.

>

> <snip>

>

> The researchers report that neither dried plums nor dried plum juice

> altered either measure of antioxidant activity. Blueberries or mixed

> grape consumption (12.5 and 8.6 millimole Trolox Equivalents (TE AOC),

> respectively) with the meal was associated with a increase in

> hydrophilic AOC. Blueberries also increased the lipophilic AOC.

>

> Cherries, eaten with the meal and providing 4.5 millimoles TE AOC,

> increased the lipophilic, but not the hydrophilic, AOC.

>

> A control meal, rich in the macronutrients - carbohydrates, protein

> and fat - consumed without antioxidants was found to result in a

> decrease of blood AOC, showing an increase in oxidative stress.

>

> " It's not just what you eat but when you eat it that matters.

> Phytochemicals in foods have varying degrees of bioavailability and

> generally are cleared from the blood 2-4 hours after they're eaten, "

> said Prior. " Ensuring that your body has a steady supply of

> antioxidant-rich foods can help combat oxidative stress throughout the

> day. "

>

> " It takes about 2.5 servings of antioxidant containing fruits and/or

> vegetables in a meal to prevent oxidative stress following the meal.

> The more calories you take in the more dietary antioxidants you

> need, " he added.

>

> The research was welcomed by the Wild Blueberry Association, a trade

> association of growers and processors of wild blueberries from Maine.

>

> , nutrition advisor for the association advised:

> " Incorporate fruits and vegetables and other whole foods like grains

> and nuts into every meal to get the full phytochemical benefits you

> need to fight oxidative stress and inflammation. "

>

[Guest guest]

Everything I've read about the cautions of eating protein and fruit

together, or protein and carbohydrate together, seem to be only

anecdotal. Actually, what I have read is " fruit will ferment in your

COLON if you eat it with protein, since it takes 12 hours for protein

to digest. " This doesn't make sense to me, since digestion takes

place in the stomach, different foods leave the stomach at different

rates, nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine, and your colon

removes water from your stool. Shouldn't your food be digested before

it reaches your colon?

I limit my intake of carbs and grains overall but I have never

experienced discomfort from eating fruit and protein together. Is

there a study or any science to support this idea?

Dave

> >

> > Hi Dave

> >

> > ly I would be afraid to incorporate the results of this study

> into my CR diet. I eat nuts and the fruits early in the day. From my

> early days of reading books by the natural hygienists, I stopped

> consuming fruit after a meal, since the fruit tends to ferment in the

> stomach and cause acidity. That would be worse for people whose source

> of protein is from animal sources. However, a fruit for a snack 2

> hours after a meal would make sense. It also seems that the

> recommendations by the Blueberry Association nutritionist to include

> fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts in every meal would make it

> difficult to practice CR. In my personal experience I limit the amount

> of grains in my diet. They are not banned, but they are limited.

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Arturo

> >

> > Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc w/caloric intake

> > Posted by: " Dave " davemaddux@ DaveMaddux

> > Wed Dec 5, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

> >

> > 2 1/2 total servings of grapes, berries, cherries, or kiwifruit with

> > meals can reduce the oxidative stress associated with caloric intake.

> > The more calories consumed, the more fruit required to reduce

> > oxidative stress.

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > " We have demonstrated that consumption of certain berries and fruits

> > such as blueberries, mixed grape and kiwifruit, was associated with

> > increased plasma AOC in the postprandial state and consumption of an

> > energy source of macronutrients containing no antioxidants was

> > associated with a decline in plasma AOC, " wrote lead author Ron Prior

> > in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition.

> >

> > Oxidative stress has been linked to an increased risk of various

> > diseases including cancer, Alzheimer's, and cardiovascular disease.

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > The researchers report that neither dried plums nor dried plum juice

> > altered either measure of antioxidant activity. Blueberries or mixed

> > grape consumption (12.5 and 8.6 millimole Trolox Equivalents (TE AOC),

> > respectively) with the meal was associated with a increase in

> > hydrophilic AOC. Blueberries also increased the lipophilic AOC.

> >

> > Cherries, eaten with the meal and providing 4.5 millimoles TE AOC,

> > increased the lipophilic, but not the hydrophilic, AOC.

> >

> > A control meal, rich in the macronutrients - carbohydrates, protein

> > and fat - consumed without antioxidants was found to result in a

> > decrease of blood AOC, showing an increase in oxidative stress.

> >

> > " It's not just what you eat but when you eat it that matters.

> > Phytochemicals in foods have varying degrees of bioavailability and

> > generally are cleared from the blood 2-4 hours after they're eaten, "

> > said Prior. " Ensuring that your body has a steady supply of

> > antioxidant-rich foods can help combat oxidative stress throughout the

> > day. "

> >

> > " It takes about 2.5 servings of antioxidant containing fruits and/or

> > vegetables in a meal to prevent oxidative stress following the meal.

> > The more calories you take in the more dietary antioxidants you

> > need, " he added.

> >

> > The research was welcomed by the Wild Blueberry Association, a trade

> > association of growers and processors of wild blueberries from Maine.

> >

> > , nutrition advisor for the association advised:

> > " Incorporate fruits and vegetables and other whole foods like grains

> > and nuts into every meal to get the full phytochemical benefits you

> > need to fight oxidative stress and inflammation. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, from what I've learned, when you eat a meal,

everything gets well mixed in the stomach, and

therefore leaves the stomach and proceeds along the

digestive tract together. However, because animal

proteins, meat especially, can take hours in the

stomach, the fruit is also delayed there, causing

fermentation to begin in the stomach.

Also, countless people on websites dedicated to IBS

and digestive problems (I spent last summer trying to

research a way out of IBS) complain of pain and

bloating and gas when they eat fruit in combination

with carbs, (grains) or protein. For me, even the

thought gives me cramps. My kids can do it, but a lot

of adults can't digest such food combinations. Fruit

is digested better alone, for many people.

--- Dave <davemaddux@...> wrote:

> Everything I've read about the cautions of eating

> protein and fruit

> together, or protein and carbohydrate together, seem

> to be only

> anecdotal. Actually, what I have read is " fruit

> will ferment in your

> COLON if you eat it with protein, since it takes 12

> hours for protein

> to digest. " This doesn't make sense to me, since

> digestion takes

> place in the stomach, different foods leave the

> stomach at different

> rates, nutrients are absorbed in the small

> intestine, and your colon

> removes water from your stool. Shouldn't your food

> be digested before

> it reaches your colon?

>

> I limit my intake of carbs and grains overall but I

> have never

> experienced discomfort from eating fruit and protein

> together. Is

> there a study or any science to support this idea?

>

> Dave

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Dave

> > >

> > > ly I would be afraid to incorporate the

> results of this study

> > into my CR diet. I eat nuts and the fruits early

> in the day. From my

> > early days of reading books by the natural

> hygienists, I stopped

> > consuming fruit after a meal, since the fruit

> tends to ferment in the

> > stomach and cause acidity. That would be worse for

> people whose source

> > of protein is from animal sources. However, a

> fruit for a snack 2

> > hours after a meal would make sense. It also seems

> that the

> > recommendations by the Blueberry Association

> nutritionist to include

> > fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts in every meal

> would make it

> > difficult to practice CR. In my personal

> experience I limit the amount

> > of grains in my diet. They are not banned, but

> they are limited.

> > >

> > > Cheers,

> > > Arturo

> > >

> > > Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc

> w/caloric intake

> > > Posted by: " Dave " davemaddux@ DaveMaddux

> > > Wed Dec 5, 2007 11:31 am (PST)

> > >

> > > 2 1/2 total servings of grapes, berries,

> cherries, or kiwifruit with

> > > meals can reduce the oxidative stress associated

> with caloric intake.

> > > The more calories consumed, the more fruit

> required to reduce

> > > oxidative stress.

> > >

> > > <snip>

> > >

> > > " We have demonstrated that consumption of

> certain berries and fruits

> > > such as blueberries, mixed grape and kiwifruit,

> was associated with

> > > increased plasma AOC in the postprandial state

> and consumption of an

> > > energy source of macronutrients containing no

> antioxidants was

> > > associated with a decline in plasma AOC, " wrote

> lead author Ron Prior

> > > in the Journal of the American College of

> Nutrition.

> > >

> > > Oxidative stress has been linked to an increased

> risk of various

> > > diseases including cancer, Alzheimer's, and

> cardiovascular disease.

> > >

> > > <snip>

> > >

> > > The researchers report that neither dried plums

> nor dried plum juice

> > > altered either measure of antioxidant activity.

> Blueberries or mixed

> > > grape consumption (12.5 and 8.6 millimole Trolox

> Equivalents (TE AOC),

> > > respectively) with the meal was associated with

> a increase in

> > > hydrophilic AOC. Blueberries also increased the

> lipophilic AOC.

> > >

> > > Cherries, eaten with the meal and providing 4.5

> millimoles TE AOC,

> > > increased the lipophilic, but not the

> hydrophilic, AOC.

> > >

> > > A control meal, rich in the macronutrients -

> carbohydrates, protein

> > > and fat - consumed without antioxidants was

> found to result in a

> > > decrease of blood AOC, showing an increase in

> oxidative stress.

> > >

> > > " It's not just what you eat but when you eat it

> that matters.

> > > Phytochemicals in foods have varying degrees of

> bioavailability and

> > > generally are cleared from the blood 2-4 hours

> after they're eaten, "

> > > said Prior. " Ensuring that your body has a

> steady supply of

> > > antioxidant-rich foods can help combat oxidative

> stress throughout the

> > > day. "

> > >

> > > " It takes about 2.5 servings of antioxidant

> containing fruits and/or

> > > vegetables in a meal to prevent oxidative stress

> following the meal.

> > > The more calories you take in the more dietary

> antioxidants you

> > > need, " he added.

> > >

> > > The research was welcomed by the Wild Blueberry

> Association, a trade

> > > association of growers and processors of wild

> blueberries from Maine.

> > >

> > > , nutrition advisor for the

> association advised:

> > > " Incorporate fruits and vegetables and other

> whole foods like grains

> > > and nuts into every meal to get the full

> phytochemical benefits you

> > > need to fight oxidative stress and

> inflammation. "

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Everything I've read about the cautions of eating

> protein and fruit

> together, or protein and carbohydrate together, seem

> to be only

> anecdotal.

Agreed. There is really no scientific or

physiological support to the theories of food

combining. Even in one of the classic books on food

combining, Food Combining Made Easy, by Herbert

Shelton, he even stated he knew of no physiological

proof/rationale for his rules. And, the organization

that was known for promoting the concept of food

combining, The American Natural Hygiene Association,

(which Shelton help found) abandoned the promotion of

the concept years ago.

It became popular again in the mid 80s when Fit For

Life, by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond, promoting a

modified version of it. But, they even admitted

publicly that it is overhyped and not that important.

If you look at the " rules " of food combining and what

they leave people to eat, it is easy to see why so

many will say they feel better, compared to what they

were eating.

Most of the basis of food combining is based on the

theory that most of the biochemistry of digestion

takes place in the stomach. But most of what takes

place in the stomach is mechanical digestions. Most

of the biochemical digestion of food takes place in

the small intestine and the small intestine is set up

to handle different combinations quite effectively.

I once wrote an article on the issue called " The

Physiology of Digestion: Is Food Combining

Justified? " . If you are interested, I would have to

dig it up as it was many years ago.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Re: Fruit with meals reduces oxidative stress assoc w/caloric intake

Posted by: " Jeff Novick " chefjeff40@... chefjeff40

Fri Dec 7, 2007 10:09 am (PST)

> Everything I've read about the cautions of eating

> protein and fruit

> together, or protein and carbohydrate together, seem

> to be only

> anecdotal.

Agreed. There is really no scientific or

physiological support to the theories of food

combining. Even in one of the classic books on food

combining, Food Combining Made Easy, by Herbert

Shelton, he even stated he knew of no physiological

proof/rationale for his rules. And, the organization

that was known for promoting the concept of food

combining, The American Natural Hygiene Association,

(which Shelton help found) abandoned the promotion of

the concept years ago.

It became popular again in the mid 80s when Fit For

Life, by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond, promoting a

modified version of it. But, they even admitted

publicly that it is overhyped and not that important.

If you look at the " rules " of food combining and what

they leave people to eat, it is easy to see why so

many will say they feel better, compared to what they

were eating.

------------------------------

Hi Jeff

Thanks for clarifying the history of the hygienists. Fit for life was good for

me when it came out, and that is where I learned those food combining views. I

also knew that lin Diamond, the author, had changed her opinions after

writing her books. You would not have been able to tell it from the declaratory

nature of her writing back then. So the food combining thing may be anecdotal,

or based on common sense. I do personally experience heartburn if I eat certain

types of fruits as dessert to a big meal.

Cheers,

Arturo