Re: Modified alternate-day fasting regimens vs daily CR

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Isn't it odd that they would divide their animals into five groups,

but in the abstract only provide the results for four of them?

One wonders whether they felt something needs to be hidden.

Rodney.

>

> In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of energy

> needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR without reducing

body

> weight.

>

>

> I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I fast ~24hrs

maybe

> several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate just due to my

> schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as part of their

CRON

> regimen?

>

>

>

> FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links

> Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce cell

proliferation

> rates to a similar extent as daily calorie restriction in mice.

> Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD, Thorner MO,

> Hellerstein MK.

>

> *Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University

of

> California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA; andDivision of

> Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine,

> University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.

>

> Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day fasting (ADF) reduce

> cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates. Whether modified

ADF

> regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs to be consumed

on

> the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to reduce global cell

> proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we measured the

effects

> of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell proliferation

rates in

> mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to one of five

> interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in daily energy

> intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3) ADF-85% (85%

> reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction on fast day),

and

> 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the ADF groups did

not

> differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group weighed less than

all

> other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell proliferation decreased

> (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85% and ADF-100%

> groups, respectively, relative to controls. Proliferation rates of

> splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and 31% in the

> CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively, and mammary

> epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62% lower (P<0.01),

> compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1 levels were

> reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups only. In

summary,

> modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of energy needs on

the

> restricted intake day, decreases global cell proliferation

similarly

> as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body weight.-Varady, K.

A.,

> Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D., Thorner, M. O.,

> Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

cell

> proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

restriction

> in mice.

>

> PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

>

[Guest guest]

'Hidden' in the full-text no doubt

Maybe Al can help?

> >

> > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of energy

> > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR without reducing

> body

> > weight.

> >

> >

> > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I fast ~24hrs

> maybe

> > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate just due to my

> > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as part of their

> CRON

> > regimen?

> >

> >

> >

> > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links

> > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce cell

> proliferation

> > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie restriction in mice.

> > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD, Thorner MO,

> > Hellerstein MK.

> >

> > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University

> of

> > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA; andDivision of

> > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine,

> > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.

> >

> > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day fasting (ADF) reduce

> > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates. Whether modified

> ADF

> > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs to be consumed

> on

> > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to reduce global cell

> > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we measured the

> effects

> > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell proliferation

> rates in

> > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to one of five

> > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in daily energy

> > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3) ADF-85% (85%

> > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction on fast day),

> and

> > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the ADF groups did

> not

> > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group weighed less than

> all

> > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell proliferation decreased

> > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85% and ADF-100%

> > groups, respectively, relative to controls. Proliferation rates of

> > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and 31% in the

> > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively, and mammary

> > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62% lower (P<0.01),

> > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1 levels were

> > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups only. In

> summary,

> > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of energy needs on

> the

> > restricted intake day, decreases global cell proliferation

> similarly

> > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body weight.-Varady, K.

> A.,

> > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D., Thorner, M. O.,

> > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> cell

> > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> restriction

> > in mice.

> >

> > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bill,

There are many CRONies who fast, eat a single meal per day, or

practice intermittent fasting. There is an " intermittent fasting "

group on : http://tech./group/fasting/

By setting the time for the 24-hour periods to start/end at 9:00AM, it

is possible to have breakfast before 9AM on the fasting days. Thus,

you can eat *every* day and still keep a 24-hour intermittent fasting

schedule.

Tony

>

> I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I fast ~24hrs maybe

> several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate just due to my

> schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as part of their CRON

> regimen?

>

>

>

> FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]

> Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce cell proliferation

> rates to a similar extent as daily calorie restriction in mice.

> Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD, Thorner MO,

> Hellerstein MK.

>

> *Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University of

> California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA; andDivision of

> Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine,

> University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.

>

> Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day fasting (ADF) reduce

> cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

>

> PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, citpeks. Would be interesting to see what slightly longer

fasts have on cell proliferation, for instance, say 3 days? 7 days? Of

course this study on mice not humans so we need to be cautious about

extrapolation..

> >

> > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I fast ~24hrs maybe

> > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate just due to my

> > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as part of their CRON

> > regimen?

> >

> >

> >

> > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]

> > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce cell proliferation

> > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie restriction in mice.

> > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD, Thorner MO,

> > Hellerstein MK.

> >

> > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University of

> > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA; andDivision of

> > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine,

> > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.

> >

> > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day fasting (ADF) reduce

> > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> >

> > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I personally think this is a good idea-problem is-I

have to be really diligent in fighting the need to eat

more on the non-fasting days to make up the calorie

difference. I can do this to a certain extent-but

then, eventually I end up eating too much sooner or

later. My body is extremely stubborn about calorie

restriction. I thought it was all in my head, but

during 6 months of desperately trying to adhere to a

pre-CRON diet-I realize that it really is my body. At

what point does this become less a struggle?

-CRT

--- bill4cr <bill4cr@...> wrote:

> In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption

> of 15% of energy

> needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global

> cell

> proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR

> without reducing body

> weight.

>

>

> I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I

> fast ~24hrs maybe

> several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate

> just due to my

> schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as

> part of their CRON

> regimen?

>

>

>

> FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here

> to read Links

> Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> cell proliferation

> rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> restriction in mice.

> Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,

> Thorner MO,

> Hellerstein MK.

>

> *Department of Nutritional Sciences and

> Toxicology, University of

> California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;

> andDivision of

> Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal

> Medicine,

> University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,

> USA.

>

> Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day

> fasting (ADF) reduce

> cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> Whether modified ADF

> regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs

> to be consumed on

> the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to

> reduce global cell

> proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we

> measured the effects

> of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell

> proliferation rates in

> mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to

> one of five

> interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in

> daily energy

> intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)

> ADF-85% (85%

> reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction

> on fast day), and

> 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the

> ADF groups did not

> differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group

> weighed less than all

> other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell

> proliferation decreased

> (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%

> and ADF-100%

> groups, respectively, relative to controls.

> Proliferation rates of

> splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and

> 31% in the

> CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,

> and mammary

> epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%

> lower (P<0.01),

> compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1

> levels were

> reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups

> only. In summary,

> modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of

> energy needs on the

> restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> proliferation similarly

> as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body

> weight.-Varady, K. A.,

> Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,

> Thorner, M. O.,

> Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting

> regimens reduce cell

> proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily

> calorie restriction

> in mice.

>

> PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by

> publisher]

>

>

[Guest guest]

IIRC, even if you “make up for it” on the non-fasting days, you still gain benefits. We’ve had several such studies posted here.

I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

From: claire roberts-torres <robertstorres@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:25:21 -0800 (PST)

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Modified alternate-day fasting regimens vs daily CR

I personally think this is a good idea-problem is-I

have to be really diligent in fighting the need to eat

more on the non-fasting days to make up the calorie

difference. I can do this to a certain extent-but

then, eventually I end up eating too much sooner or

later. My body is extremely stubborn about calorie

restriction. I thought it was all in my head, but

during 6 months of desperately trying to adhere to a

pre-CRON diet-I realize that it really is my body. At

what point does this become less a struggle?

-CRT

--- bill4cr <bill4cr@... <mailto:bill4cr%40> > wrote:

> In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption

> of 15% of energy

> needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global

> cell

> proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR

> without reducing body

> weight.

>

>

> I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I

> fast ~24hrs maybe

> several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate

> just due to my

> schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as

> part of their CRON

> regimen?

>

>

>

> FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here

> to read Links

> Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> cell proliferation

> rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> restriction in mice.

> Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,

> Thorner MO,

> Hellerstein MK.

>

> *Department of Nutritional Sciences and

> Toxicology, University of

> California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;

> andDivision of

> Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal

> Medicine,

> University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,

> USA.

>

> Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day

> fasting (ADF) reduce

> cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> Whether modified ADF

> regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs

> to be consumed on

> the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to

> reduce global cell

> proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we

> measured the effects

> of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell

> proliferation rates in

> mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to

> one of five

> interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in

> daily energy

> intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)

> ADF-85% (85%

> reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction

> on fast day), and

> 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the

> ADF groups did not

> differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group

> weighed less than all

> other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell

> proliferation decreased

> (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%

> and ADF-100%

> groups, respectively, relative to controls.

> Proliferation rates of

> splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and

> 31% in the

> CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,

> and mammary

> epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%

> lower (P<0.01),

> compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1

> levels were

> reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups

> only. In summary,

> modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of

> energy needs on the

> restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> proliferation similarly

> as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body

> weight.-Varady, K. A.,

> Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,

> Thorner, M. O.,

> Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting

> regimens reduce cell

> proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily

> calorie restriction

> in mice.

>

> PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by

> publisher]

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like Tony's approach of being able to eat

everyday with an ADF. However, I have gone on a 7 day fast and the

psychological aspects of hunger eventually go away.

Doing it made me realize how much of my eating had been habit and not

real need. Drinking only water and letting the body rest did wonders

for me.

Another thing I wanted to speak to was the issue of calcium. My

father was being given high doses of calcium and ended up with one of

his femurs at the ball fracturing on one side in one month and the

next the other femur fractured. He was just walking and collapsed.

My question would be does a higher fat diet also produce a leaching

of calcium from the bones? Will a high fat and high calcium diet

cause these problems?

Bob

>

> > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption

> > of 15% of energy

> > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global

> > cell

> > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR

> > without reducing body

> > weight.

> >

> >

> > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I

> > fast ~24hrs maybe

> > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate

> > just due to my

> > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as

> > part of their CRON

> > regimen?

> >

> >

> >

> > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here

> > to read Links

> > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> > cell proliferation

> > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> > restriction in mice.

> > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,

> > Thorner MO,

> > Hellerstein MK.

> >

> > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and

> > Toxicology, University of

> > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;

> > andDivision of

> > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal

> > Medicine,

> > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,

> > USA.

> >

> > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day

> > fasting (ADF) reduce

> > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> > Whether modified ADF

> > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs

> > to be consumed on

> > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to

> > reduce global cell

> > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we

> > measured the effects

> > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell

> > proliferation rates in

> > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to

> > one of five

> > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in

> > daily energy

> > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)

> > ADF-85% (85%

> > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction

> > on fast day), and

> > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the

> > ADF groups did not

> > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group

> > weighed less than all

> > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell

> > proliferation decreased

> > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%

> > and ADF-100%

> > groups, respectively, relative to controls.

> > Proliferation rates of

> > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and

> > 31% in the

> > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,

> > and mammary

> > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%

> > lower (P<0.01),

> > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1

> > levels were

> > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups

> > only. In summary,

> > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of

> > energy needs on the

> > restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> > proliferation similarly

> > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body

> > weight.-Varady, K. A.,

> > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,

> > Thorner, M. O.,

> > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting

> > regimens reduce cell

> > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily

> > calorie restriction

> > in mice.

> >

> > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by

> > publisher]

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

A human study done by Mattson et al, investigating the effects of a 'one meal a day in the evening' routine, was posted at the fasting site (possibly here too?), perhaps a year ago. This is the only study of its kind I am aware of. It showed worse biomarkers than CRON, but no one at the site seemed even slightly perturbed by it, they all went on telling each other how wonderful their particular version of it was, as if the paper had not been posted (!) There was never much science posted at the site so I haven't been back there in a long time.

IIRC the Mattson study found that those eating one meal a day had higher blood pressure, higher LDL and higher IGF-1 than people on CRON. The latter seemed to me to be particularly troubling.

As against the above, many mouse and rat studies of CRON have fed the animals only three meals a week (sic) ..... MWF. And the animals lived substantially longer than regularly fed mice. This causes one to wonder to what extent the much reduced meal frequency was a factor in their longevity. But in the rhesus monkey study the animals are fed three meals a day and the ones on CRON look like they also are going to live much longer than the control monkeys ......... so meal frequency looks like it isn't much of a factor, if at all.

So the jury is still out on this one, it seems to me. But it still does seem clear that fooling your body, one way or another, into believing there is a famine has enormous health benefits, compared with eating a 'normal' number of calories.

Rodney.

> > > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption> > of 15% of energy> > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global> > cell> > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR> > without reducing body> > weight.> > > > > > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I> > fast ~24hrs maybe> > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate> > just due to my> > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as> > part of their CRON> > regimen?> > > > > > > > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here> > to read Links> > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce> > cell proliferation> > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie> > restriction in mice.> > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,> > Thorner MO,> > Hellerstein MK.> > > > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and> > Toxicology, University of> > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;> > andDivision of> > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal> > Medicine,> > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,> > USA.> > > > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day> > fasting (ADF) reduce> > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.> > Whether modified ADF> > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs> > to be consumed on> > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to> > reduce global cell> > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we> > measured the effects> > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell> > proliferation rates in> > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to> > one of five> > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in> > daily energy> > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)> > ADF-85% (85%> > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction> > on fast day), and> > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the> > ADF groups did not> > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group> > weighed less than all> > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell> > proliferation decreased> > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%> > and ADF-100%> > groups, respectively, relative to controls.> > Proliferation rates of> > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and> > 31% in the> > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,> > and mammary> > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%> > lower (P<0.01),> > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1> > levels were> > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups> > only. In summary,> > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of> > energy needs on the> > restricted intake day, decreases global cell> > proliferation similarly> > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body> > weight.-Varady, K. A.,> > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,> > Thorner, M. O.,> > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting> > regimens reduce cell> > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily> > calorie restriction> > in mice.> > > > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by> > publisher]

[Guest guest]

,

The reason that you may be struggling with your diet could be that you

are not getting 100% of all your nutrients. You should not really

restrict calories without some assurance that you are getting all the

vitamins, minerals, protein, and essential fatty acids needed by your

body. Download and use CRON-o-Meter to record everything that you

eat. This is the only way that you will know what may be missing from

your diet.

CRON-o-Meter, Free diet tracking software:

http://spaz.ca/cronometer/

Also, use the Calorie Restriction Calculator to figure out your rate

of restriction. Your caloric needs are affected by your level of

activity. You should not go below 15% CR until you have the nutrition

aspect under control.

Calorie Restriction Calculator:

http://scientificpsychic.com/health/cron1.html

IMO, you should first get the nutrition right by learning what to eat

to get 100% of your nutrients (Optimum Nutrition), then you can cut

down what you eat (CR) to a level where you are comfortable with your

quality of life. There is no sense in living a long, miserable life,

right?

Tony

>

> I personally think this is a good idea-problem is-I

> have to be really diligent in fighting the need to eat

> more on the non-fasting days to make up the calorie

> difference. I can do this to a certain extent-but

> then, eventually I end up eating too much sooner or

> later. My body is extremely stubborn about calorie

> restriction. I thought it was all in my head, but

> during 6 months of desperately trying to adhere to a

> pre-CRON diet-I realize that it really is my body. At

> what point does this become less a struggle?

>

> -CRT

[Guest guest]

Rodney Wrote:

>A human study done by Mattson et al, investigating the

> effects of a 'one meal a day in the evening' routine, was posted at

the

> fasting site (possibly here too?), perhaps a year ago. This is the

only

> study of its kind I am aware of. It showed worse biomarkers than

>CRON,

> IIRC the Mattson study found that those eating one meal a day had

higher

> blood pressure, higher LDL and higher IGF-1 than people on CRON.

The

> latter seemed to me to be particularly troubling.

Reply:

The Mattson study you refer to, [1] is an oddball as the subjects

FORCED to eat more than they wanted to. In addition they had to gorge

this amount in a 4 hour period. The authors even suggest that the

results would have been different if the subjects would have consumed

only what they desired.

Also IGF was not increased.

Numerous studies of short term IF during Ramadan fasting show

improved glucose handling and higher HDL numbers. [2]

Also 24 hour fasting interspresed with regular eating has increased

insulin sensitivity.[3]

A consistent finding of recent IF studies with only small or no

decrease in average calories (on rodents) has shown reduced growth

factor (associated with cancer) and in one case reduced cancer. [4,5]

It seems that IF might have the following benefits:

1: People will generally eat less on an IF schedule. [6]

2: Improved glucose handling.

3: Reductions of factors associated with cancer

Regards

Randy

[1]Impact of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction on

glucose regulation in healthy, normal-weight middle-aged men and

women.Carlson O, B, Stote KS, Golden E, Maudsley S, Najjar SS,

Ferrucci L, Ingram DK, Longo DL, Rumpler WV, Baer DJ, Egan J, Mattson

MP.

Diabetes Section, Laboratory of Clinical Investigation, National

Institute on Aging Intramural Research Program, Baltimore, MD, USA.

PMID: 17998028

[2] Tunis Med. 2006 Oct;84(10):647-50. Food intake and high density

lipoprotein cholesterol levels changes during ramadan fasting in

healthy young subjects. Lamine F, Bouguerra R, Jabrane J, Marrakchi Z,

Ben Rayana MC, Ben Slama C, Gaigi S. PMID: 17193859.

[3]http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/99/6/2128

[4]Alternate-day fasting and chronic disease prevention: a review of

human and animal trials1,2,3

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/99/6/2128

[5] Mitochondrial production of reactive oxygen species and incidence

of age-associated lymphoma in OF1 mice: effect of alternate-day

fasting.

PMID: 16126250

[6] Effect of an acute fast on energy compensation and feeding

behaviour in lean men and women.stone AM, Faber P, Gibney ER,

Elia M, Horgan G, Golden BE, Stubbs RJ.

Rowett Research Institute, Aberdeen, UK. amj@...

PMID: 12461679

As against the

> above, many mouse and rat studies of CRON have fed the animals only

> three meals a week (sic) ..... MWF. And the animals lived

> substantially longer than regularly fed mice. This causes one to

wonder

> to what extent the much reduced meal frequency was a factor in their

> longevity. But in the rhesus monkey study the animals are fed three

> meals a day and the ones on CRON look like they also are going to

live

> much longer than the control monkeys ......... so meal frequency

looks

> like it isn't much of a factor, if at all. So the jury is still

out on

> this one, it seems to me. But it still does seem clear that fooling

> your body, one way or another, into believing there is a famine has

> enormous health benefits, compared with eating a 'normal' number of

> calories. Rodney.

> >

> > > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption

> > > of 15% of energy

> > > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global

> > > cell

> > > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR

> > > without reducing body

> > > weight.

> > >

> > >

> > > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I

> > > fast ~24hrs maybe

> > > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate

> > > just due to my

> > > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as

> > > part of their CRON

> > > regimen?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here

> > > to read Links

> > > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> > > cell proliferation

> > > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> > > restriction in mice.

> > > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,

> > > Thorner MO,

> > > Hellerstein MK.

> > >

> > > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and

> > > Toxicology, University of

> > > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;

> > > andDivision of

> > > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal

> > > Medicine,

> > > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,

> > > USA.

> > >

> > > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day

> > > fasting (ADF) reduce

> > > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> > > Whether modified ADF

> > > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs

> > > to be consumed on

> > > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to

> > > reduce global cell

> > > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we

> > > measured the effects

> > > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell

> > > proliferation rates in

> > > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to

> > > one of five

> > > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in

> > > daily energy

> > > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)

> > > ADF-85% (85%

> > > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction

> > > on fast day), and

> > > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the

> > > ADF groups did not

> > > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group

> > > weighed less than all

> > > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell

> > > proliferation decreased

> > > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%

> > > and ADF-100%

> > > groups, respectively, relative to controls.

> > > Proliferation rates of

> > > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and

> > > 31% in the

> > > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,

> > > and mammary

> > > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%

> > > lower (P<0.01),

> > > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1

> > > levels were

> > > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups

> > > only. In summary,

> > > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of

> > > energy needs on the

> > > restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> > > proliferation similarly

> > > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body

> > > weight.-Varady, K. A.,

> > > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,

> > > Thorner, M. O.,

> > > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting

> > > regimens reduce cell

> > > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily

> > > calorie restriction

> > > in mice.

> > >

> > > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by

> > > publisher]

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Randy:

Thank you for that paper which I had not seen before.

It is actually not the one I had been thinking of, which was this

one, dated April 2007:

" A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric

restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. "

Stote KS, Baer DJ, Spears K, DR, GK, Rumpler WV,

Strycula P, Najjar SS, Ferrucci L, Ingram DK, Longo DL, Mattson MP.

Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, US Department of

Agriculture, Agriculture Research Service, Beltsville, MD, USA.

" BACKGROUND: Although consumption of 3 meals/d is the most common

pattern of eating in industrialized countries, a scientific

rationale for this meal frequency with respect to optimal health is

lacking. A diet with less meal frequency can improve the health and

extend the lifespan of laboratory animals, but its effect on humans

has never been tested. OBJECTIVE: A pilot study was conducted to

establish the effects of a reduced-meal-frequency diet on health

indicators in healthy, normal-weight adults. DESIGN: The study was a

randomized crossover design with two 8-wk treatment periods. During

the treatment periods, subjects consumed all of the calories needed

for weight maintenance in either 3 meals/d or 1 meal/d. RESULTS:

Subjects who completed the study maintained their body weight within

2 kg of their initial weight throughout the 6-mo period. There were

no significant effects of meal frequency on heart rate, body

temperature, or most of the blood variables measured. However, when

consuming 1 meal/d, subjects had a significant increase in hunger; a

significant modification of body composition, including reductions

in fat mass; significant increases in blood pressure and in total,

LDL-, and HDL-cholesterol concentrations; and a significant decrease

in concentrations of cortisol. CONCLUSIONS: Normal-weight subjects

are able to comply with a 1 meal/d diet. When meal frequency is

decreased without a reduction in overall calorie intake, modest

changes occur in body composition, some cardiovascular disease risk

factors, and hematologic variables. Diurnal variations may affect

outcomes. "

PMID: 17413096

The abstract confirms my recollection about higher blood pressure

and LDL (and also HDL), but does not say that IGF-1 was increased.

If anyone has access to the full text can they comment about the

effect of IF on IGF-1 if it is mentioned, please?

Rodney.

> > >

> > > > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption

> > > > of 15% of energy

> > > > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global

> > > > cell

> > > > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR

> > > > without reducing body

> > > > weight.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I

> > > > fast ~24hrs maybe

> > > > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate

> > > > just due to my

> > > > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as

> > > > part of their CRON

> > > > regimen?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here

> > > > to read Links

> > > > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> > > > cell proliferation

> > > > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> > > > restriction in mice.

> > > > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,

> > > > Thorner MO,

> > > > Hellerstein MK.

> > > >

> > > > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and

> > > > Toxicology, University of

> > > > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;

> > > > andDivision of

> > > > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal

> > > > Medicine,

> > > > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,

> > > > USA.

> > > >

> > > > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day

> > > > fasting (ADF) reduce

> > > > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> > > > Whether modified ADF

> > > > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs

> > > > to be consumed on

> > > > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to

> > > > reduce global cell

> > > > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we

> > > > measured the effects

> > > > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell

> > > > proliferation rates in

> > > > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to

> > > > one of five

> > > > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in

> > > > daily energy

> > > > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)

> > > > ADF-85% (85%

> > > > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction

> > > > on fast day), and

> > > > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the

> > > > ADF groups did not

> > > > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group

> > > > weighed less than all

> > > > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell

> > > > proliferation decreased

> > > > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%

> > > > and ADF-100%

> > > > groups, respectively, relative to controls.

> > > > Proliferation rates of

> > > > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and

> > > > 31% in the

> > > > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,

> > > > and mammary

> > > > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%

> > > > lower (P<0.01),

> > > > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1

> > > > levels were

> > > > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups

> > > > only. In summary,

> > > > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of

> > > > energy needs on the

> > > > restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> > > > proliferation similarly

> > > > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body

> > > > weight.-Varady, K. A.,

> > > > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,

> > > > Thorner, M. O.,

> > > > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting

> > > > regimens reduce cell

> > > > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily

> > > > calorie restriction

> > > > in mice.

> > > >

> > > > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by

> > > > publisher]

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Randy:

Thanks to the 'usual suspect' I have been able to check the full text regarding the IGF-1. And you are right. That study did not measure IGF-1.

I was confusing the source of the higher fasting IGF-1 result, which was in another Mattson paper, reporting on a study in mice, not humans. Four groups of mice were studied: AL - food available continuously; LDF - 40% CR fed daily; IF - fed ad lib, but only on alternate days, fasted the other days; and PF - fed the same quantity as the IF mice but daily instead of on alternate days.

IGF-1 was found to be 15% lower than controls in the CR mice, but 15% higher in the fasting mice. Granted, we are not mice. Nevertheless ........... . Do we know of a human, or primate, study of fasting where IGF-1 was measured?

Anson RM, Guo Z, de Cabo R, Iyun T, Rios M, Hagepanos A, Ingram DK, Lane MA, Mattson MP.

"Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury from calorie intake."

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 13;100(10):6216-20.

PMID: 12724520

Rodney.

> > >A human study done by Mattson et al, investigating the> > > effects of a 'one meal a day in the evening' routine, was posted > at > > the> > > fasting site (possibly here too?), perhaps a year ago. This is > the > > only> > > study of its kind I am aware of. It showed worse biomarkers > than > > >CRON,> > > IIRC the Mattson study found that those eating one meal a day > had > > higher> > > blood pressure, higher LDL and higher IGF-1 than people on > CRON. > > The> > > latter seemed to me to be particularly troubling. > > > > Reply:> > The Mattson study you refer to, [1] is an oddball as the subjects > > FORCED to eat more than they wanted to. In addition they had to > gorge > > this amount in a 4 hour period. The authors even suggest that the > > results would have been different if the subjects would have > consumed > > only what they desired.> > Also IGF was not increased.> > > > Numerous studies of short term IF during Ramadan fasting show > > improved glucose handling and higher HDL numbers. [2]> > Also 24 hour fasting interspresed with regular eating has > increased > > insulin sensitivity.[3]> > > > A consistent finding of recent IF studies with only small or no > > decrease in average calories (on rodents) has shown reduced growth > > factor (associated with cancer) and in one case reduced cancer. > [4,5]> > > > It seems that IF might have the following benefits:> > 1: People will generally eat less on an IF schedule. [6]> > 2: Improved glucose handling.> > 3: Reductions of factors associated with cancer> > > > Regards> > Randy

[Guest guest]

Rodney Wrote:

> I was confusing the source of the higher fasting IGF-1 result,

which was

> in another Mattson paper, reporting on a study in mice, not humans.

> Four groups of mice were studied: AL - food available continuously;

LDF

> - 40% CR fed daily; IF - fed ad lib, but only on alternate days,

fasted

> the other days; and PF - fed the same quantity as the IF mice but

daily

> instead of on alternate days.

>

> IGF-1 was found to be 15% lower than controls in the CR mice, but

15%

> higher in the fasting mice. Granted, we are not mice.

Nevertheless

> ........... . Do we know of a human, or primate, study of fasting

> where IGF-1 was measured?

>

> Anson RM, Guo Z, de Cabo R, Iyun T, Rios M, Hagepanos A, Ingram DK,

Lane

> MA, Mattson MP.

Reply:

Yep,that's the paper that started all the recent interest in IF.

Ironically, the results from this study " might " not have enything to

do with IF, but simple increased neuroprotection from ketosis. Also

this paper was an anomaly regarding increased IGF-1. I've never seen

this result duplicated before.

Nevertheless a number of recent studies (see my previous post) have

shown strong indicators that cancer might be reduced more on an IF

eating schedule compared to an iso-calorie regularly fed schedule.

BUT, this effect might only effective at <=25% CR.

So at relativley light level of CR (<25%) there might be an advantage

to higher calorie levels on an IF schedule.

BUT, keep in mind the the demonstrated result apply to cancer. I

don't know of any studies dealing with life span extension, parkinson

reduction ect. I suspect these studies are going on right now.

Regards

Randy

>

> " Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary

> restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury

from

> calorie intake. "

>

> Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 13;100(10):6216-20.

>

> PMID: 12724520

>

> Rodney.

>

>

> > > >A human study done by Mattson et al, investigating the

> > > > effects of a 'one meal a day in the evening' routine, was

posted

> > at

> > > the

> > > > fasting site (possibly here too?), perhaps a year ago. This

is

> > the

> > > only

> > > > study of its kind I am aware of. It showed worse biomarkers

> > than

> > > >CRON,

> > > > IIRC the Mattson study found that those eating one meal a day

> > had

> > > higher

> > > > blood pressure, higher LDL and higher IGF-1 than people on

> > CRON.

> > > The

> > > > latter seemed to me to be particularly troubling.

> > >

> > > Reply:

> > > The Mattson study you refer to, [1] is an oddball as the

subjects

> > > FORCED to eat more than they wanted to. In addition they had to

> > gorge

> > > this amount in a 4 hour period. The authors even suggest that

the

> > > results would have been different if the subjects would have

> > consumed

> > > only what they desired.

> > > Also IGF was not increased.

> > >

> > > Numerous studies of short term IF during Ramadan fasting show

> > > improved glucose handling and higher HDL numbers. [2]

> > > Also 24 hour fasting interspresed with regular eating has

> > increased

> > > insulin sensitivity.[3]

> > >

> > > A consistent finding of recent IF studies with only small or no

> > > decrease in average calories (on rodents) has shown reduced

growth

> > > factor (associated with cancer) and in one case reduced cancer.

> > [4,5]

> > >

> > > It seems that IF might have the following benefits:

> > > 1: People will generally eat less on an IF schedule. [6]

> > > 2: Improved glucose handling.

> > > 3: Reductions of factors associated with cancer

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Randy

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > > > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption

> > > > > of 15% of energy

> > > > > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global

> > > > > cell

> > > > > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR

> > > > > without reducing body

> > > > > weight.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I

> > > > > fast ~24hrs maybe

> > > > > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate

> > > > > just due to my

> > > > > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as

> > > > > part of their CRON

> > > > > regimen?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here

> > > > > to read Links

> > > > > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

> > > > > cell proliferation

> > > > > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

> > > > > restriction in mice.

> > > > > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,

> > > > > Thorner MO,

> > > > > Hellerstein MK.

> > > > >

> > > > > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and

> > > > > Toxicology, University of

> > > > > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;

> > > > > andDivision of

> > > > > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal

> > > > > Medicine,

> > > > > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,

> > > > > USA.

> > > > >

> > > > > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day

> > > > > fasting (ADF) reduce

> > > > > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.

> > > > > Whether modified ADF

> > > > > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs

> > > > > to be consumed on

> > > > > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to

> > > > > reduce global cell

> > > > > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we

> > > > > measured the effects

> > > > > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell

> > > > > proliferation rates in

> > > > > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to

> > > > > one of five

> > > > > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in

> > > > > daily energy

> > > > > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)

> > > > > ADF-85% (85%

> > > > > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction

> > > > > on fast day), and

> > > > > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the

> > > > > ADF groups did not

> > > > > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group

> > > > > weighed less than all

> > > > > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell

> > > > > proliferation decreased

> > > > > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%

> > > > > and ADF-100%

> > > > > groups, respectively, relative to controls.

> > > > > Proliferation rates of

> > > > > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and

> > > > > 31% in the

> > > > > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,

> > > > > and mammary

> > > > > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%

> > > > > lower (P<0.01),

> > > > > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1

> > > > > levels were

> > > > > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups

> > > > > only. In summary,

> > > > > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of

> > > > > energy needs on the

> > > > > restricted intake day, decreases global cell

> > > > > proliferation similarly

> > > > > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body

> > > > > weight.-Varady, K. A.,

> > > > > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,

> > > > > Thorner, M. O.,

> > > > > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting

> > > > > regimens reduce cell

> > > > > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily

> > > > > calorie restriction

> > > > > in mice.

> > > > >

> > > > > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by

> > > > > publisher]

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Let me reformat that better:

Hi Randy:Ah! So you seem to be saying then that the benefit of IF is likely not derived from changes in meal frequency, but from 'involuntary' CR? ;; ^ )))Rodney.> > > > >> > > > > > In summary, modified ADF, allowing the consumption> > > > > > of 15% of energy> > > > > > needs on the restricted intake day, decreases global> > > > > > cell> > > > > > proliferation similarly as true ADF and daily CR> > > > > > without reducing body> > > > > > weight.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I don't know how many CRON's fast but occasionally I> > > > > > fast ~24hrs maybe> > > > > > several times per month at most. Nothing deliberate> > > > > > just due to my> > > > > > schedule. Anyone here deliberately use 'fasting' as> > > > > > part of their CRON> > > > > > regimen?> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > FASEB J. 2008 Jan 9 [Epub ahead of print]Click here> > > > > > to read Links> > > > > > Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce> > > > > > cell proliferation> > > > > > rates to a similar extent as daily calorie> > > > > > restriction in mice.> > > > > > Varady KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD,> > > > > > Thorner MO,> > > > > > Hellerstein MK.> > > > > >> > > > > > *Department of Nutritional Sciences and> > > > > > Toxicology, University of> > > > > > California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA;> > > > > > andDivision of> > > > > > Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal> > > > > > Medicine,> > > > > > University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia,> > > > > > USA.> > > > > >> > > > > > Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day> > > > > > fasting (ADF) reduce> > > > > > cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates.> > > > > > Whether modified ADF> > > > > > regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs> > > > > > to be consumed on> > > > > > the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to> > > > > > reduce global cell> > > > > > proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we> > > > > > measured the effects> > > > > > of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell> > > > > > proliferation rates in> > > > > > mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to> > > > > > one of five> > > > > > interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in> > > > > > daily energy> > > > > > intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3)> > > > > > ADF-85% (85%> > > > > > reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction> > > > > > on fast day), and> > > > > > 5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the> > > > > > ADF groups did not> > > > > > differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group> > > > > > weighed less than all> > > > > > other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell> > > > > > proliferation decreased> > > > > > (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85%> > > > > > and ADF-100%> > > > > > groups, respectively, relative to controls.> > > > > > Proliferation rates of> > > > > > splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and> > > > > > 31% in the> > > > > > CR-25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively,> > > > > > and mammary> > > > > > epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62%> > > > > > lower (P<0.01),> > > > > > compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1> > > > > > levels were> > > > > > reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups> > > > > > only. In summary,> > > > > > modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of> > > > > > energy needs on the> > > > > > restricted intake day, decreases global cell> > > > > > proliferation similarly> > > > > > as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body> > > > > > weight.-Varady, K. A.,> > > > > > Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D.,> > > > > > Thorner, M. O.,> > > > > > Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting> > > > > > regimens reduce cell> > > > > > proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily> > > > > > calorie restriction> > > > > > in mice.> > > > > >> > > > > > PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by> > > > > > publisher]> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

> Let me reformat that better:

> Ah! So you seem to be saying then that the benefit of IF is likely

>not derived from changes in meal frequency, but from 'involuntary'

>CR?

Reply:

Hey Rodney

No, I belive that IF on a ADF schedule has benefits independant of CR.

Both [1] and [2] show equivalent results (on cancer and cancer

indicators) with 7.5% and 0% calorie reduction on ADF compared to

standard CR at 25% calorie reduction.

I also believe that if you put people on a 20/4 IF schedule and force

them to eat more than they want, ldl can increase and glucose control

can deterioate.

I also beleive that these benefits of ADF might disappear when

comparing to CR diets at level greater than 25%.

Take home message: You " might " be able to eat more on an ADF schedule

compared to standard CR at levels <25%.

In any case IF (ADF) has been demonstarted to have benefits outside

CR. If ADF suits one's style, you might be able to eat more and get

the same benefits (at levels <24%).

Regards

Randy

[1] 1: Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Nov;126(11):1185-91. Links

Mitochondrial production of reactive oxygen species and incidence of

age-associated lymphoma in OF1 mice: effect of alternate-day

fasting.Descamps O, Riondel J, Ducros V, Roussel AM.

Laboratoire de Nutrition, Vieillissement, Maladies Cardio-

vasculaires, Faculté de Pharmacie, Université de Grenoble, Domaine de

la Merci, 38706 la Tronche, France.

There is currently of a great interest investigating the role of

nutrition in the prevention of age-associated disorders. The present

study aimed to evaluate, on a particular strain of mice, the efficacy

of alternate-day fasting on the mitochondrial production of free

radical species and on the incidence of a specific cancer (lymphoma)

in aged mice. Alternate fasting, that was initiated in middle age

mice through a 4 month period, reduced significantly the incidence of

lymphoma (0% versus 33% for controls). No remarkable difference was

observed in the overall food consumption between alternate-fed (AF)

and ad libitum (AL) mice, suggesting that the efficacy of alternate

fasting did not really depend on calorie restriction. A significant

decrease in the mitochondrial generation of reactive oxygen species

(ROS) that was associated with a significant increase in spleen

mitochondria SOD activity was observed when mice were maintained on

intermittent fasting. Our results suggest that alternate fasting

could exert a beneficial antioxidant effect and a modulation of the

oxidative stress associated with aging.

PMID: 16126250 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[2]Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce cell proliferation

rates to a similar extent as daily calorie restriction in mice.Varady

KA, Roohk DJ, McEvoy-Hein BK, Gaylinn BD, Thorner MO, Hellerstein MK.

*Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University of

California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California, USA; andDivision of

Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine,

University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, USA.

Calorie restriction (CR) and alternate-day fasting (ADF) reduce

cancer risk and reduce cell proliferation rates. Whether modified ADF

regimens (i.e., allowing a portion of energy needs to be consumed on

the fast day) work, as well as true ADF or CR to reduce global cell

proliferation rates, remains unresolved. Here, we measured the

effects of true ADF, modified ADF, and daily CR on cell proliferation

rates in mice. Thirty female C57BL/6J mice were randomized to one of

five interventions for 4 wk: 1) CR-25% (25% reduction in daily energy

intake), 2) ADF-75% (75% reduction on fast day), 3) ADF-85% (85%

reduction on fast day), 4) ADF-100% (100% reduction on fast day), and

5) control (ad libitum intake). Body weights of the ADF groups did

not differ from controls, whereas the CR-25% group weighed less than

all other groups posttreatment. Epidermal cell proliferation

decreased (P<0.01) by 29, 20, and 31% in the CR-25%, ADF-85% and ADF-

100% groups, respectively, relative to controls. Proliferation rates

of splenic T cells were reduced (P<0.01) by 37, 32, and 31% in the CR-

25%, ADF-85%, and ADF-100% groups, respectively, and mammary

epithelial cell proliferation was 70, 65, and 62% lower (P<0.01),

compared with controls. Insulin-like growth factor-1 levels were

reduced (P<0.05) in the CR-25% and ADF-100% groups only. In summary,

modified ADF, allowing the consumption of 15% of energy needs on the

restricted intake day, decreases global cell proliferation similarly

as true ADF and daily CR without reducing body weight.-Varady, K. A.,

Roohk, D. J., McEvoy-Hein, B. K., Gaylinn, B. D., Thorner, M. O.,

Hellersteinm M. K. Modified alternate-day fasting regimens reduce

cell proliferation rates to a similar extent as daily calorie

restriction in mice.

PMID: 18184721 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]