Re: Way to Shrink, Grow Fat Is Found -Tests Also Show Link to Stress

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

So these groups of animals are supposed to have been fed

isocalorically?

If so then this looks like the solution, not only to obesity, but to

the energy crisis also. Since it appears they have found a way to

generate energy (in this case fat) out of nowhere. Are they planning

next to come up with a perpetual motion machine?

Or do they have an explanation that can reconcile these claims with

the laws of physics? I look forward to hearing more on this aspect

of the claims they make.

Rodney.

>

> By Rob Stein

> Washington Post Staff Writer

> Monday, July 2, 2007; Page A01

>

>

> Scientists reported yesterday that they have uncovered a biological

switch

> by which stress can promote obesity, a discovery that could help

explain the

> world's growing weight problem and lead to new ways to melt flab and

> manipulate fat for cosmetic purposes.

>

> In a series of experiments on mice, researchers showed that the

> neurochemical pathway they identified promotes fat growth in

chronically

> stressed animals that eat the equivalent of a junk-food diet.

>

> Researchers found that laboratory mice subjected to daily stress

and also

> fed a high-fat diet for a few weeks became obese.

>

> The international team also showed that blocking those signals can

prevent

> fat accumulation and shrink fat deposits and that stimulating the

pathway

> can strategically create new deposits -- possibly offering new ways

to

> remove fat as well as to mold youthful faces, firmer buttocks and

bigger

> breasts.

>

> " It's very exciting, " said Zofia Zukowska of town University's

> Department of Physiology and Biophysics, who led the research,

published

> online by the journal Nature Medicine. " This could be

revolutionary. "

>

> While cautioning that the safety and effectiveness of the approach

remain to

> be proven in people, other researchers said the findings reveal new

clues

> about the basic biology of fat and why obesity has been increasing

so

> quickly, particularly in Western countries.

>

> " There is a lot of uncontrollable stress right now in our

societies. There's

> also a lot of inexpensive high-fat food, " said F. Dallman of

the

> University of California at San Francisco, who co-wrote a commentary

> accompanying the research. " This could help explain the obesity

epidemic. "

>

> The researchers have applied for a patent and have begun

negotiating with

> drug companies to license the technology. They predicted that

studies in

> people could begin within two years.

>

> Previous studies have indicated that whereas acute stress can make

some

> people lose weight, chronic stress, such as long-term job

insecurity, might

> cause some to put on pounds.

>

> To explore this, Zukowska and her colleagues subjected mice to

chronic

> stress -- either standing in cold water an hour a day or being

caged with a

> more aggressive alpha mouse for 10 minutes a day -- and then gave

them

> standard feed or a high-fat, high-sugar diet similar to the junk-

food fare

> many consume.

>

> After two weeks, only the mice that were both stressed and fed the

junk-food

> diet gained a significant amount of weight. They accumulated about

twice as

> much fat in their bellies as non-stressed mice that consumed the

same diet.

>

> " This tells me it's not just the stress. It's the combination of

stress and

> the high-fat, high-sugary rich diet -- that is the humongous combo.

There is

> some kind of interaction going on, " Zukowska said.

>

> Moreover, the stressed-out junk-food eaters put on the worst kind

of fat --

> deposited around the abdomen and laced with hormones and other

chemical

> signals that promote illness. After three months, the animals

became obese

> and developed the constellation of health problems that obese

humans often

> get -- high blood pressure, early diabetes, high cholesterol -- an

> increasingly common condition known as metabolic syndrome.

>

> " By treating the mice the way humans are treated, which is

introducing a

> chronic stress from which they cannot escape and introducing this

abundance

> of food, we mimicked what happens in American society, " Zukowska

said.

>

> When the researchers examined the animals' fat tissue, they

discovered

> sharply elevated concentrations of a substance called neuropeptide

Y (NPY),

> a chemical messenger produced by nerves in the body, including

those in fat.

> They also had far higher levels of a molecular partner NPY needs to

work,

> known as the neuropeptide Y2R receptor.

>

> " This tells us that NPY and this receptor trigger the whole process

of

> stress-induced obesity, " Zukowska said. She noted that other recent

studies

> found that humans with defective NPY receptors are resistant to

obesity,

> whereas those with excessive NPY are prone to it.

>

> After confirming the role of NPY in fat formation in additional

studies in

> genetically engineered mice, the researchers showed in laboratory

> experiments that NPY induces the growth of immature fat cells,

coaxes mature

> fat cells to get bigger and promotes blood vessels necessary to

sustain fat

> tissue.

>

> The researchers also demonstrated that injecting a substance that

blocks NPY

> prevented mice from accumulating fat -- even if they were stressed

and ate a

> high-fat diet -- and could shrink fat deposits by 40 percent to 50

percent

> within two weeks.

>

> " It just melts the fat. It's incredible, " said Zukowska, noting

that the

> technique could offer an alternative or supplement to liposuction.

>

> On the flip side, when researchers inserted pellets containing NPY

under the

> skin of mice and three monkeys, they were able to stimulate fat

growth,

> suggesting that the approach could replace skin fillers and other

cosmetic

> and reconstructive surgical techniques.

>

> " This has tremendous potential applications for both cosmetic and

> reconstructive surgery, " said B. Baker, a town

University

> professor of plastic surgery who helped conduct the research.

>

> Detailed studies of the mice and preliminary findings from the

monkeys found

> no signs of adverse side effects.

>

> " We think we have hit on the natural mechanism that mammals use to

grow fat,

> and reversing that process is the most natural thing, " Zukowska

said.

>

> " It just has tremendous potential applications, " she said. " I have

never

> seen anything like this. "

>

> Others cautioned that much more research would be needed to confirm

that the

> same system works in people, and to learn whether blocking or

stimulating

> NPY receptors is safe.

>

> " You might have side effects you wouldn't want, which is always the

problem

> with a substance in the body that does many different things, " said

Bruce

> McEwen of Rockefeller University in New York.

>

> It is unlikely that anything will ever be a panacea for weight gain

or will

> replace eating well and exercising regularly, others warned.

>

> " I wouldn't want people to not to make an effort to control their

weight or

> lose weight while waiting for this magical solution to fix the

whole thing, "

> said Louis J. Aronne of the Weill Medical College of Cornell

University.

> " This is very promising, but the average person shouldn't say, 'I

can eat

> whatever I want and wait for that shot to take it all away.' "

>

[Guest guest]

No laws need be broken. Energy in food can be variably

disposed by the consuming animals: burned for heat (thermogenically

by mitochondria), turned into more metabolically active tissues

like muscle, or less active tissue like fat (a negative cycle/spiral),

or used for activity energy.

On 7/2/07, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

Hi folks:So these groups of animals are supposed to have been fed isocalorically?If so then this looks like the solution, not only to obesity, but to the energy crisis also. Since it appears they have found a way to generate energy (in this case fat) out of nowhere. Are they planning next to come up with a perpetual motion machine?Or do they have an explanation that can reconcile these claims with the laws of physics? I look forward to hearing more on this aspect of the claims they make.Rodney.>> By Rob Stein> Washington Post Staff Writer> Monday, July 2, 2007; Page A01> > > Scientists reported yesterday that they have uncovered a biological switch> by which stress can promote obesity, a discovery that could help explain the> world's growing weight problem and lead to new ways to melt flab and> manipulate fat for cosmetic purposes.

> > In a series of experiments on mice, researchers showed that the> neurochemical pathway they identified promotes fat growth in chronically> stressed animals that eat the equivalent of a junk-food diet.

> > Researchers found that laboratory mice subjected to daily stress and also> fed a high-fat diet for a few weeks became obese.> > The international team also showed that blocking those signals can prevent> fat accumulation and shrink fat deposits and that stimulating the pathway> can strategically create new deposits -- possibly offering new ways to> remove fat as well as to mold youthful faces, firmer buttocks and bigger> breasts.> > " It's very exciting, " said Zofia Zukowska of town University's> Department of Physiology and Biophysics, who led the research, published> online by the journal Nature Medicine. " This could be revolutionary. " > > While cautioning that the safety and effectiveness of the approach remain to> be proven in people, other researchers said the findings reveal new clues> about the basic biology of fat and why obesity has been increasing so> quickly, particularly in Western countries.> > " There is a lot of uncontrollable stress right now in our societies. There's> also a lot of inexpensive high-fat food, " said F. Dallman of the> University of California at San Francisco, who co-wrote a commentary> accompanying the research. " This could help explain the obesity epidemic. " > > The researchers have applied for a patent and have begun negotiating with> drug companies to license the technology. They predicted that studies in> people could begin within two years.> > Previous studies have indicated that whereas acute stress can make some> people lose weight, chronic stress, such as long-term job insecurity, might> cause some to put on pounds.> > To explore this, Zukowska and her colleagues subjected mice to chronic

> stress -- either standing in cold water an hour a day or being caged with a> more aggressive alpha mouse for 10 minutes a day -- and then gave them> standard feed or a high-fat, high-sugar diet similar to the junk-

food fare> many consume.> > After two weeks, only the mice that were both stressed and fed the junk-food> diet gained a significant amount of weight. They accumulated about twice as

> much fat in their bellies as non-stressed mice that consumed the same diet.> > " This tells me it's not just the stress. It's the combination of stress and> the high-fat, high-sugary rich diet -- that is the humongous combo. There is> some kind of interaction going on, " Zukowska said.> > Moreover, the stressed-out junk-food eaters put on the worst kind of fat --> deposited around the abdomen and laced with hormones and other chemical> signals that promote illness. After three months, the animals became obese> and developed the constellation of health problems that obese humans often> get -- high blood pressure, early diabetes, high cholesterol -- an

> increasingly common condition known as metabolic syndrome.> > " By treating the mice the way humans are treated, which is introducing a> chronic stress from which they cannot escape and introducing this abundance> of food, we mimicked what happens in American society, " Zukowska said.> > When the researchers examined the animals' fat tissue, they discovered> sharply elevated concentrations of a substance called neuropeptide Y (NPY),> a chemical messenger produced by nerves in the body, including those in fat.> They also had far higher levels of a molecular partner NPY needs to work,> known as the neuropeptide Y2R receptor.

> > " This tells us that NPY and this receptor trigger the whole process of> stress-induced obesity, " Zukowska said. She noted that other recent studies> found that humans with defective NPY receptors are resistant to obesity,> whereas those with excessive NPY are prone to it.> > After confirming the role of NPY in fat formation in additional studies in> genetically engineered mice, the researchers showed in laboratory

> experiments that NPY induces the growth of immature fat cells, coaxes mature> fat cells to get bigger and promotes blood vessels necessary to sustain fat> tissue.> > The researchers also demonstrated that injecting a substance that blocks NPY> prevented mice from accumulating fat -- even if they were stressed and ate a> high-fat diet -- and could shrink fat deposits by 40 percent to 50 percent> within two weeks.> > " It just melts the fat. It's incredible, " said Zukowska, noting that the> technique could offer an alternative or supplement to liposuction.> > On the flip side, when researchers inserted pellets containing NPY under the> skin of mice and three monkeys, they were able to stimulate fat growth,> suggesting that the approach could replace skin fillers and other cosmetic> and reconstructive surgical techniques.

> > " This has tremendous potential applications for both cosmetic and> reconstructive surgery, " said B. Baker, a town University> professor of plastic surgery who helped conduct the research.

> > Detailed studies of the mice and preliminary findings from the monkeys found> no signs of adverse side effects.> > " We think we have hit on the natural mechanism that mammals use to grow fat,> and reversing that process is the most natural thing, " Zukowska said.> > " It just has tremendous potential applications, " she said. " I have never> seen anything like this. "

> > Others cautioned that much more research would be needed to confirm that the> same system works in people, and to learn whether blocking or stimulating> NPY receptors is safe.> > " You might have side effects you wouldn't want, which is always the problem> with a substance in the body that does many different things, " said Bruce> McEwen of Rockefeller University in New York.

> > It is unlikely that anything will ever be a panacea for weight gain or will> replace eating well and exercising regularly, others warned.> > " I wouldn't want people to not to make an effort to control their weight or> lose weight while waiting for this magical solution to fix the whole thing, " > said Louis J. Aronne of the Weill Medical College of Cornell University.> " This is very promising, but the average person shouldn't say, 'I can eat> whatever I want and wait for that shot to take it all away.' " >

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Yes, of course.

But where is the evidence to support any of these or other somewhat

similar possible explanations?

It is not complicated to measure body temperature, so if the energy

is being lost, or saved, thermogenically, as you suggest it might be,

why do they not enlighten us about the animals' body temperatures?

And of course the experience of those on CRON is the opposite. Lower

body weights appear to be associated with body temperatures that are

lower, not higher.

If the supposed " biological switch " is able to decide whether to

build muscle or fat, or switch one to the other - another of your

suggestions - then it appears they will have found a way to build

muscle without the need for exercise. Wonderful, if it is true, but

is it likely to be? I doubt it but if it is then how about they

provide evidence for this? And in addition it hardly helps support

the argument that muscle is being turned into fat when we know that,

almost invariably, fat people have *more* muscle (LBM) than slim

people, not less.

Or, if as you suggest, it may be activity that is responsible, is

there evidence that the type of food eaten can turn people either

into couch-potatoes or exercise fanatics? Again, interesting if

true. But is there evidence for this?

As previously discussed the explanation could be that people who are

generally regarded as having a thoroughly healthy weight have

thoroughly ineffective intestines, and manage to maintain a sensible

body weight only because they fail to absorb a significant amount of

the calories they consume. The idea that apparently healthy people

suffer from poor intestinal absorption doesn't seem likely to me.

Indeed the opposite seems more likely. But if evidence is presented

I will listen.

" It just melts the fat. It's incredible, " said Zukowska ..........

So what happens to it? A change in exercise habits is not mentioned,

a change in body temperature is not mentioned, excretion of large

amounts of energy is not mentioned .......... .

Until a rational, documented explanation is provided, I see this as

just another in what has now become a long line of different claims

each of which seems to be devoted to deflecting responsibility for

excess weight from the consumption of too many calories to something

else ............. indeed to anything else, rather than face up to

the thought of eating less.

Many previous similar claims have enjoyed one day in the media

spotlight and then, it seems, disappeared entirely. I expect the

same for this one. But let's see.

Of course the 'obesity epidemic' is a hot topic in medical science

these days and without doubt there is stiff competition for a limited

amount of research funding ; ^ )))

Rodney.

> > >

> > > By Rob Stein

> > > Washington Post Staff Writer

> > > Monday, July 2, 2007; Page A01

> > >

> > >

> > > Scientists reported yesterday that they have uncovered a

biological

> > switch

> > > by which stress can promote obesity, a discovery that could help

> > explain the

> > > world's growing weight problem and lead to new ways to melt

flab and

> > > manipulate fat for cosmetic purposes.

> > >

> > > In a series of experiments on mice, researchers showed that the

> > > neurochemical pathway they identified promotes fat growth in

> > chronically

> > > stressed animals that eat the equivalent of a junk-food diet.

> > >

> > > Researchers found that laboratory mice subjected to daily stress

> > and also

> > > fed a high-fat diet for a few weeks became obese.

> > >

> > > The international team also showed that blocking those signals

can

> > prevent

> > > fat accumulation and shrink fat deposits and that stimulating

the

> > pathway

> > > can strategically create new deposits -- possibly offering new

ways

> > to

> > > remove fat as well as to mold youthful faces, firmer buttocks

and

> > bigger

> > > breasts.

> > >

> > > " It's very exciting, " said Zofia Zukowska of town

University's

> > > Department of Physiology and Biophysics, who led the research,

> > published

> > > online by the journal Nature Medicine. " This could be

> > revolutionary. "

> > >

> > > While cautioning that the safety and effectiveness of the

approach

> > remain to

> > > be proven in people, other researchers said the findings reveal

new

> > clues

> > > about the basic biology of fat and why obesity has been

increasing

> > so

> > > quickly, particularly in Western countries.

> > >

> > > " There is a lot of uncontrollable stress right now in our

> > societies. There's

> > > also a lot of inexpensive high-fat food, " said F. Dallman

of

> > the

> > > University of California at San Francisco, who co-wrote a

commentary

> > > accompanying the research. " This could help explain the obesity

> > epidemic. "

> > >

> > > The researchers have applied for a patent and have begun

> > negotiating with

> > > drug companies to license the technology. They predicted that

> > studies in

> > > people could begin within two years.

> > >

> > > Previous studies have indicated that whereas acute stress can

make

> > some

> > > people lose weight, chronic stress, such as long-term job

> > insecurity, might

> > > cause some to put on pounds.

> > >

> > > To explore this, Zukowska and her colleagues subjected mice to

> > chronic

> > > stress -- either standing in cold water an hour a day or being

> > caged with a

> > > more aggressive alpha mouse for 10 minutes a day -- and then

gave

> > them

> > > standard feed or a high-fat, high-sugar diet similar to the

junk-

> > food fare

> > > many consume.

> > >

> > > After two weeks, only the mice that were both stressed and fed

the

> > junk-food

> > > diet gained a significant amount of weight. They accumulated

about

> > twice as

> > > much fat in their bellies as non-stressed mice that consumed the

> > same diet.

> > >

> > > " This tells me it's not just the stress. It's the combination of

> > stress and

> > > the high-fat, high-sugary rich diet -- that is the humongous

combo.

> > There is

> > > some kind of interaction going on, " Zukowska said.

> > >

> > > Moreover, the stressed-out junk-food eaters put on the worst

kind

> > of fat --

> > > deposited around the abdomen and laced with hormones and other

> > chemical

> > > signals that promote illness. After three months, the animals

> > became obese

> > > and developed the constellation of health problems that obese

> > humans often

> > > get -- high blood pressure, early diabetes, high cholesterol --

an

> > > increasingly common condition known as metabolic syndrome.

> > >

> > > " By treating the mice the way humans are treated, which is

> > introducing a

> > > chronic stress from which they cannot escape and introducing

this

> > abundance

> > > of food, we mimicked what happens in American society, " Zukowska

> > said.

> > >

> > > When the researchers examined the animals' fat tissue, they

> > discovered

> > > sharply elevated concentrations of a substance called

neuropeptide

> > Y (NPY),

> > > a chemical messenger produced by nerves in the body, including

> > those in fat.

> > > They also had far higher levels of a molecular partner NPY

needs to

> > work,

> > > known as the neuropeptide Y2R receptor.

> > >

> > > " This tells us that NPY and this receptor trigger the whole

process

> > of

> > > stress-induced obesity, " Zukowska said. She noted that other

recent

> > studies

> > > found that humans with defective NPY receptors are resistant to

> > obesity,

> > > whereas those with excessive NPY are prone to it.

> > >

> > > After confirming the role of NPY in fat formation in additional

> > studies in

> > > genetically engineered mice, the researchers showed in

laboratory

> > > experiments that NPY induces the growth of immature fat cells,

> > coaxes mature

> > > fat cells to get bigger and promotes blood vessels necessary to

> > sustain fat

> > > tissue.

> > >

> > > The researchers also demonstrated that injecting a substance

that

> > blocks NPY

> > > prevented mice from accumulating fat -- even if they were

stressed

> > and ate a

> > > high-fat diet -- and could shrink fat deposits by 40 percent to

50

> > percent

> > > within two weeks.

> > >

> > > " It just melts the fat. It's incredible, " said Zukowska, noting

> > that the

> > > technique could offer an alternative or supplement to

liposuction.

> > >

> > > On the flip side, when researchers inserted pellets containing

NPY

> > under the

> > > skin of mice and three monkeys, they were able to stimulate fat

> > growth,

> > > suggesting that the approach could replace skin fillers and

other

> > cosmetic

> > > and reconstructive surgical techniques.

> > >

> > > " This has tremendous potential applications for both cosmetic

and

> > > reconstructive surgery, " said B. Baker, a town

> > University

> > > professor of plastic surgery who helped conduct the research.

> > >

> > > Detailed studies of the mice and preliminary findings from the

> > monkeys found

> > > no signs of adverse side effects.

> > >

> > > " We think we have hit on the natural mechanism that mammals use

to

> > grow fat,

> > > and reversing that process is the most natural thing, " Zukowska

> > said.

> > >

> > > " It just has tremendous potential applications, " she said. " I

have

> > never

> > > seen anything like this. "

> > >

> > > Others cautioned that much more research would be needed to

confirm

> > that the

> > > same system works in people, and to learn whether blocking or

> > stimulating

> > > NPY receptors is safe.

> > >

> > > " You might have side effects you wouldn't want, which is always

the

> > problem

> > > with a substance in the body that does many different things, "

said

> > Bruce

> > > McEwen of Rockefeller University in New York.

> > >

> > > It is unlikely that anything will ever be a panacea for weight

gain

> > or will

> > > replace eating well and exercising regularly, others warned.

> > >

> > > " I wouldn't want people to not to make an effort to control

their

> > weight or

> > > lose weight while waiting for this magical solution to fix the

> > whole thing, "

> > > said Louis J. Aronne of the Weill Medical College of Cornell

> > University.

> > > " This is very promising, but the average person shouldn't

say, 'I

> > can eat

> > > whatever I want and wait for that shot to take it all away.' "

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>