Re: Biomarkers ...Re: Need Advice on Stabilizing Weight (Optimum BMI for longevity)

[Guest guest]

>

> >>>Dr. Fontana may be right when he suggests that severe CR may not

> be best for lean normal weight individuals. Jeff's original post,

> and some of the follow-on posts from people with similar issues,

> also suggest that CR may be less appropriate, or at least more

> difficult, for already lean people than for those who have a

> tendency to be overweight. '

>

It is my opinion that if someone is already lean, unless they are

engaging in an enormous amount of exercise, then they are already

practicing CR to some degree or more. How else could they be lean?

Therefore, I think their focus should be on the ON part

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

>

,

> The interesting thing (to me) is that our experience practicing

> CRON, your experience as a naturally thin person and mine as the proud

> owner of the " thifty gene " , makes it appear that humans respond to

> CRON just as mice do. I understand that much more data would be

> needed to scientifically establish the relationship, but it is

> interesting.

>

Thanks but I disagree with most all of the above and don't know where

you got the idea that I agree with the above.

I believe that many of us who are alive today are descendants of

ancestors who had the thrifty gene. Not just some of us, but most all

of us because otherwise, most of us wouldnt have been here. That is

why so many of us (>65%) are battling the weight issue. And,

regardless of the exact percent of those of us who do have this gene,

those who do have it, have had it for multiple generations upon

multiple generations, etc. We didnt get it recently but it has been

passed on down for centuries. So, the real question is, if the gene

has been laying dormant for so many years, what is it about our time

now, that has made the gene express itself? And in so many people who

have had it lay dormant for so many years, all at once?

Second, Trust me, you may think I am " naturally " thin, but I can

load the pounds on in a heartbeat and most of my family and close

relatives are overweight/obese and suffer from CVD, DB, HTN and

Cancer. I am one of the only ones who doesn't. When in college, I was

able to pack on weight very easy from " excesses " . My dad, who is

built like me, does the same, and worst of all, mostly in the

abdomen. My dad is overweight now, and had 2 massive heart attacks in

his 50s. His dad died of one at the age 50 and was overweight. They

both engaged in physically demanding work. He also suffers from HTN

and DB. My mom is overweight and suffers from DB, and HTN. My

brothers are either overweight or obese with heart disease. My cousins

are all overweight or obese and have similar situation and a number of

them have suffered from cancers. The only difference between my thin

disease free life and them, is my strict adherence to my lifestyle.

The only other family member who is also thin and disease free is my

sister, who like me, is also a strict adherent to a similar lifestyle

as me.

Third, if you look closely at the Minnesota Starvation experiment, and

what we know of the holocaust survivors and other similar situations,

when humans are starved, they all get thin. No exceptions that I

know of. I dont remember seeing any pictures or hearing of any

accounts from survivors of starved people who remained thin. Same

with the MN experiment, the biosphere, NWCR, hunger strikes, etc etc

etc. If someone knows of data where humans underwent severe CR for an

extended period and stayed obese/overweight or even a somewhat

" normal " weight (as you described it).

In addition, having participated in the treatment of around 2500

patients a year for the last 10 years, I met many who made similar

claims about their inability to lose weight due to their thrifty genes

before enrolling. However, once enrolled in the controlled

environment, they were able to lose weight, and often at a calorie

level above what they said they were eating before when they couldnt

lose weight. As the studies that were just posted here showed, many

parents of obese kids today do not see their kids as being heavy or

overweight, let alone obese. Perception vs reality is a huge issue

in todays world/environment.

I believe my original point was misunderstood and maybe that is my

fault as they first time I explained a while back, the same thing

happened.

In response the comments about CR-ON not being applicable to people

who are already thin. my response is this...

If they are thin, and not engaging in excessive exercise, then they

can only be thin if they are practicing some sort of CR right now.

Let us use me as an example. Many years ago, i was thin but I wasnt

practicing CRON. But to be thin, and stay thin, I had to be

practicing some level of CR in my life. How do I know? Because when

I didn't and I indulged in excess, I could easily put on 20 if not 30

pounds. So, to maintain my lighter weight over time, I had to be

practicing CR over time. And when i saw the weight go up, I knew how

to get it off, cut out calories.

However, while i must have been doing the CR part, to remain thin, I

wasnt doing the ON part as I didnt care about the quality of what i

ate. So, for me at that point to practice CRON, I did not need to do

anymore CR (which is what i believe the researchers are saying) but

that is because I am already doing more than enough. But , what i

know need to do, is learn and implement the ON part.

And, as we all know, the benefit is not from the CR alone but from the

CRON.

I hope that clarifies my position

Thanks

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Amen. I wish I had a dollar for every “thin” newbie who posts and doesn’t understand that getting thinner should not be their objective. As Walford states: if you are already thin, you either shouldn’t lose any more weight or certainly not lose very much. Their objective should be to optimize their “ON” part of CRON (which often naturally results in some weight loss anyway).

From: Novick <jnovickrd@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:40:06 -0500

< >

Subject: Re: [ ] Biomarkers ...Re: Need Advice on Stabilizing Weight (Optimum BMI for longevity)

However, while i must have been doing the CR part, to remain thin, I

wasnt doing the ON part as I didnt care about the quality of what i

ate. So, for me at that point to practice CRON, I did not need to do

anymore CR (which is what i believe the researchers are saying) but

that is because I am already doing more than enough. But , what i

know need to do, is learn and implement the ON part.

And, as we all know, the benefit is not from the CR alone but from the

CRON.

I hope that clarifies my position

Thanks

Jeff