Re: Calcium supplements increase heart attack risk in women

[Guest guest]

Here is a Reuters article on the storyhttp://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUST149309Calcium supplements (over 1500 mgs) have also been shown to increase prostate cancer risk in men.Another "feather in the cap" for real foods, and being cautious about the supplement bandwagon.jeff On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Francesca Skelton wrote:I heard this on the radio news this am. This would jibe with our recent theory/postings about calcium and iron supplementation being detrimental.If anyone has more (written) info, please post.

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca/Jeff:

This is very interesting. Calcification of arteries is not, of

course, an unrecognized phenomenon. One recent paper posted here

had found 500 - 700 mg of calcium from all sources was sufficient to

replace the amounts excreted. Nevertheless, seeing this article has

provoked me to introduce a calcium intake aspect into my ongoing

personal one-mouse experiment investigating the influence of vitamin

D2 and squats on bone mass. (Does one really need 1500mg of calcium

to grow more bone?) Conclusions, perhaps only applicable to one

mouse, will be drawn in a couple of months. But I seem to have

already learnt a lot I had not expected.

Rodney.

>

> > I heard this on the radio news this am. This would jibe with

our

> > recent theory/postings about calcium and iron supplementation

being

> > detrimental.

> >

> > If anyone has more (written) info, please post.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How much Vit K is recommended daily for good health? The following is a list of foods high in Vit K (taken from the Mayo clinic website). From this list it would be hard to believe that most CRONIES would be deficient. I eat Kale, spinach and parsley regularly (almost every day).

Kale

Spinach

Turnip greens

Collards

Swiss chard

Parsley

Mustard greens

From: Dave Maddux <davemaddux@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:48:25 -0800 (PST)

< >

Subject: [ ] Calcium supplements increase heart attack risk in women

This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K. There has

to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our population,

yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well. Calcium

deficiency must not be the problem.

I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)

and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2 for the

last couple of months.

Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the

benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves calcium

out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is

maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that

manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented

soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out there

to support their claims.

For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with summaries

previously posted:

Dave

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

" . . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates

associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. . .

... "

http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666

" It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high

Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,

less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this

study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were

followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of

natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification

and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk. "

http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm

Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were

associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.

" Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a

putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of

cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are

characterized by inflammation. . . . "

//www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkujayvvlpc

__________________________________________________________

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

What would prevent calcium in foods, rather than supplements, from

causing arterial calcification?

Diane

>

> This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K. There has

> to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our population,

> yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well. Calcium

> deficiency must not be the problem.

>

> I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)

> and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2 for the

> last couple of months.

>

> Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the

> benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves calcium

> out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is

> maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that

> manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented

> soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out there

> to support their claims.

>

> For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with summaries

> previously posted:

>

> Dave

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>

> " . . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates

> associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. . .

> .. "

>

> http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666

>

>

>

> " It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high

> Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,

> less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this

> study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were

> followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of

> natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification

> and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk. "

>

> http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm

>

>

>

> Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were

> associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.

>

> " Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a

> putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of

> cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are

> characterized by inflammation. . . . "

>

>

>

//www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkujayvvlpc

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

[Guest guest]

A page clipped from a Medscape article and copied below mentions a

study that shows " The presence of aortic calcification was associated

with lower bone mass and a marginal vitamin K status. "

Dave

+++++++++++++++++

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/509074_5

Arterial Calcification

Similarity to Bone Metabolism

Arterial calcification was once thought to be a passive process that

occurred in response to tissue injury. Evidence now suggests that it

is an active, cell-controlled process that shares many similarities

with bone metabolism.[3,21,56,57] Arterial calcification occurs at two

sites in the vessel wall: the media and the intima. Medial

calcification is known as Mönckeberg's arteriosclerosis. Unlike

intimal calcification, Mönckeberg's arteriosclerosis occurs

independently of atherosclerosis.[21,58,59] Although the cells

involved differ depending on the site of calcification, MGP is

expressed at both sites.[3] The connection between MGP and vascular

calcification has been documented by both cell culture and animal

studies. Human cell studies have shown that normal vascular smooth

muscle cells express MGP and, at sites of calcification, it is

substantially upregulated.[56,58,60] This may be a physiological

attempt to minimize calcification and tissue damage.[21,61] In an

animal cell study, it was found that endochondral calcification

triggered by warfarin could be inhibited by an overexpression of

MGP.[15] Animal studies of MGP-deficient mice and warfarin-treated

rats provide strong evidence that MGP is a potent inhibitor of

vascular calcification.[14,18] Extensive arterial calcification was

found in animals that do not express MGP and those that could not

carboxylate it. Assuming that the VKD & #947;-carboxylation of MGP is

essential for its inhibitory effect on calcification, vitamin K

deficiency may be a risk factor for vascular calcification.

Clinical Studies

Concurrent arterial calcification and osteoporosis have been called

the " calcification paradox " [3] and occur frequently in postmenopausal

women.[6] However, only a few human studies investigating the

connection between these two diseases have been published. In a study

of 45 postmenopausal women with normal and low BMD, an inverse

relationship was found between BMD and coronary calcification.[5] The

mean ± S.D. total coronary calcium score (a measure of calcification)

was significantly higher in all arteries of the women with low BMD

than in the control group (221.7 ± 355.4 and 41.9 ± 83.1,

respectively) (p < 0.025). In a nine-year, population-based study of

236 women, progression of atherosclerotic calcification was associated

with increasing bone loss.[6] Women with progressive aortic

calcification had an average loss of metacarpal bone density of 7.2

mm2%, compared with 5.6 mm2% in women without progressive aortic

calcification (p < 0.05). In two studies by Jie et al.,[7,8] a

correlation was found between vitamin K status and mineralization of

both bone and vessel walls. In a population-based study, vitamin K

status, osteocalcin levels, and aortic calcifications were assessed in

113 postmenopausal women.[8] The presence of aortic calcification was

associated with lower bone mass and a marginal vitamin K status. There

was a 7% difference in the bone mass between women with and without

aortic calcification (mean difference, 3.2 mm2; 95% CI, -0.2 to 6.5

mm2; p = 0.06). In another cohort study, 113 postmenopausal women with

aortic calcifications were found to consume approximately 42.9 µg less

dietary vitamin K than participants without aortic calcification (95%

CI, -6.6 to 92.5 µg).[7] These women also had a 0.32-ng/mL higher

adjusted undercarboxylated osteocalcin level (95% CI, 0.03-0.61 ng/mL)

and lower hydroxyapetite-binding capacity than those women without

aortic calcification.

In a population study of 4500 elderly patients, an inverse

relationship was demonstrated between dietary intake of menaquinone

and aortic calcification, myocardial infarction, and sudden

cardiovascular death.[62]

The most convincing data to date were recently reported by Braam et

al.[63] In this three-year, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of

181 healthy, Caucasian postmenopausal women, daily supplementation

with 1 mg of phytonadione (plus 8 µ g of vitamin D3 and minerals [500

mg of calcium, 150 mg of magnesium, and 10 mg of zinc per day])

inhibited the loss of carotid artery elasticity, compared with those

receiving placebo and those in the vitamin D3 plus minerals group

(-13.2 kPa; 95% CI, -35.8 to -5.3) (p < 0.01). No significant

differences in arterial elasticity were noted between the placebo

group and the vitamin D3 plus minerals group. In this study, no

significant differences were observed in carotid artery intima-media

thickness between the three study groups.

Interestingly, no prospective interventional studies have been

published investigating menaquinone deficiency as a risk factor for

arterial calcification or whether supplementation with menaquinone

affects arterial elasticity, arterial calcification, or intima-media

thickness.

>

> How much Vit K is recommended daily for good health? The following is a

> list of foods high in Vit K (taken from the Mayo clinic website).

From this

> list it would be hard to believe that most CRONIES would be

deficient. I

> eat Kale, spinach and parsley regularly (almost every day).

>

> Kale

> Spinach

> Turnip greens

> Collards

> Swiss chard

> Parsley

> Mustard greens

>

>

>

> From: Dave Maddux <davemaddux@...>

> Reply-< >

> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:48:25 -0800 (PST)

> < >

> Subject: [ ] Calcium supplements increase heart attack

risk in

> women

>

>

>

>

>

> This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K. There has

> to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our population,

> yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well. Calcium

> deficiency must not be the problem.

>

> I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)

> and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2 for the

> last couple of months.

>

> Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the

> benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves calcium

> out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is

> maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that

> manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented

> soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out there

> to support their claims.

>

> For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with summaries

> previously posted:

>

> Dave

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>

> " . . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates

> associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. . .

> .. "

>

> http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666

>

> " It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high

> Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,

> less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this

> study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were

> followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of

> natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification

> and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk. "

>

> http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm

>

> Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were

> associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.

>

> " Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a

> putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of

> cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are

> characterized by inflammation. . . . "

>

>

http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkujayvvlpc

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I guess it wouldn't matter whether the calcium came from food sources

or supplements. Considering that heart disease is so common,

certainly many people who have suffered from it may never have taken

calcium supplements at all.

A person prone to heart disease who is supplementing at the commonly

recommended 1000mg + per day to combat osteoporosis could be making

things much worse.

So, it is logical to assume that calcium deficiency may not be causing

osteoporosis in the population, it must be something else wrong with

the common diet. If I were concerned about my bone density, I would

feel much more comfortable supplementing vit D (it is becoming

mainstream to say everyone is deficient in D), or Vit K-2 at the RDA,

rather than more calcium.

Certainly arterial sclerosis kills more of us than osteoporosis does.

(Unless you fall, break your hip and catch pneumonia while in the

hospital).

Dave

> >

> > This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K.

There has

> > to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our population,

> > yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well. Calcium

> > deficiency must not be the problem.

> >

> > I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)

> > and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2

for the

> > last couple of months.

> >

> > Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the

> > benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves

calcium

> > out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is

> > maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that

> > manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented

> > soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out there

> > to support their claims.

> >

> > For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with

summaries

> > previously posted:

> >

> > Dave

> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> >

> > " . . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates

> > associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. . .

> > .. "

> >

> > http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666

> >

> >

> >

> > " It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high

> > Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,

> > less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this

> > study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were

> > followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of

> > natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification

> > and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk. "

> >

> > http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm

> >

> >

> >

> > Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were

> > associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.

> >

> > " Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a

> > putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of

> > cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are

> > characterized by inflammation. . . . "

> >

> >

> >

>

//www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkujayvvlpc

> >

> >

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www./r/hs

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Francesca,

You are right, greens are good sources of K-1, but the studies that

show reduced arterial calcification were with doses that would be

difficult to get from food alone. Vit K, like D, might be worth

supplementing.

K-2 on the other hand, shows results with dosages close-to or at the

RDA (about 80 mcgs), as it is more bio-available and has a longer

half-life (stays in the liver or blood longer). Best food sources I

think are meat or especially natto (fermented soybean curd).

Dave

>

> How much Vit K is recommended daily for good health? The following is a

> list of foods high in Vit K (taken from the Mayo clinic website).

From this

> list it would be hard to believe that most CRONIES would be

deficient. I

> eat Kale, spinach and parsley regularly (almost every day).

>

> Kale

> Spinach

> Turnip greens

> Collards

> Swiss chard

> Parsley

> Mustard greens

>

>

>

> From: Dave Maddux <davemaddux@...>

> Reply-< >

> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:48:25 -0800 (PST)

> < >

> Subject: [ ] Calcium supplements increase heart attack

risk in

> women

>

>

>

>

>

> This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K. There has

> to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our population,

> yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well. Calcium

> deficiency must not be the problem.

>

> I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)

> and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2 for the

> last couple of months.

>

> Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the

> benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves calcium

> out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is

> maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that

> manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented

> soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out there

> to support their claims.

>

> For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with summaries

> previously posted:

>

> Dave

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>

> " . . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates

> associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. . .

> .. "

>

> http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666

>

> " It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high

> Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,

> less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this

> study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were

> followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of

> natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification

> and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk. "

>

> http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm

>

> Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were

> associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.

>

> " Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a

> putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of

> cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are

> characterized by inflammation. . . . "

>

>

http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkujayvvlpc

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

According to CRON-o-Meter, half a pound of spinach (it comes here in half pound bags and it cooks down to almost nothing) contains 913% of the daily requirement for vitamin K. I am always way over the RDA for K whenever I check over a few days.

Now perhaps there are different varieties of vitamin K that it is important to distinguish. But if so then CRON-o-Meter, and other similar nutrition tracking software, would need to break them out ........... if that is important to health.

Rodney.

> >> > How much Vit K is recommended daily for good health? The following is a> > list of foods high in Vit K (taken from the Mayo clinic website).> From this> > list it would be hard to believe that most CRONIES would be> deficient. I> > eat Kale, spinach and parsley regularly (almost every day).> > > > Kale> > Spinach> > Turnip greens> > Collards> > Swiss chard> > Parsley> > Mustard greens> > > > > > > > From: Dave Maddux davemaddux@> > Reply- > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:48:25 -0800 (PST)> > > > Subject: [ ] Calcium supplements increase heart attack> risk in> > women> > > > > > > > > > > > This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K. There has> > to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our population,> > yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well. Calcium> > deficiency must not be the problem.> > > > I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)> > and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2 for the> > last couple of months.> > > > Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the> > benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves calcium> > out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is> > maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that> > manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented> > soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out there> > to support their claims.> > > > For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with summaries> > previously posted:> > > > Dave> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++> > > > ". . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates> > associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. . .> > .."> > > > http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666> > > > "It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high> > Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,> > less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this> > study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were> > followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of> > natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification> > and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk."> > > > http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm> > > > Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were> > associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.> > > > "Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a> > putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of> > cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are> > characterized by inflammation. . . ."> > > >> http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkujayvvlpc>

[Guest guest]

Rodney,

Wow, thats a lot of K! 913% is almost 10 times the RDA, whereas the

high-dose K-1 group that showed results in the study I was thinking of

(http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666) was about 20

times " normal. " Quote:

" . . . .a standard diet plus vitamin K1 at normal dose (5 micrograms

per gram of food, purchased from Sigma), a standard diet plus

high-dose vitamin K1 (100 micrograms per gram of food). . . . "

Not sure if a " normal " lab rat dose equates to our RDA for humans, but

it seems that mega-doses of K-1 could be possible if you love your greens.

Dave

> > >

> > > How much Vit K is recommended daily for good health? The following

> is a

> > > list of foods high in Vit K (taken from the Mayo clinic website).

> > From this

> > > list it would be hard to believe that most CRONIES would be

> > deficient. I

> > > eat Kale, spinach and parsley regularly (almost every day).

> > >

> > > Kale

> > > Spinach

> > > Turnip greens

> > > Collards

> > > Swiss chard

> > > Parsley

> > > Mustard greens

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: Dave Maddux davemaddux@

> > > Reply-

> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:48:25 -0800 (PST)

> > >

> > > Subject: [ ] Calcium supplements increase heart attack

> > risk in

> > > women

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This news makes me even more interested in vitamins D and K. There

> has

> > > to be something wrong if osteoporosis is so common in our

> population,

> > > yet heart disease (arterial calcification) is common as well.

> Calcium

> > > deficiency must not be the problem.

> > >

> > > I've quit my calcium supplements (recommended for my high-normal BP)

> > > and have been supplementing Vit D for about a year, and Vit K-2 for

> the

> > > last couple of months.

> > >

> > > Here is a link to http://www.vitamink2.org , a site that touts the

> > > benefits of Vit K-2, including the claim that the vitamin moves

> calcium

> > > out of soft tissue and into bone. Bear in mind that this site is

> > > maintained by NattoPharma ASA, which is I believe the company that

> > > manufactures the Mk-7 K-2 supplement derived from natto (fermented

> > > soybeans). But, there are independent peer-reviewed studies out

> there

> > > to support their claims.

> > >

> > > For your convenience have also re-listed here 3 articles with

> summaries

> > > previously posted:

> > >

> > > Dave

> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> > >

> > > " . . . .high-dose vitamin K supplement reduced calcium precipitates

> > > associated with hardening of the arteries by 37 per cent in rats. .

> .

> > > .. "

> > >

> > > http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=72666

> > >

> > > " It has been previously shown in the Journal of Nutrition that high

> > > Vitamin K2 consumption was linked to lower coronary heart disease,

> > > less aortic calcification and lower all cause mortality. In this

> > > study, 4,800 elderly subjects with no history of heart disease were

> > > followed for 10 years, and it was found that 45 micrograms/day of

> > > natural vitamin K2 resulted in 50% decreased arterial calcification

> > > and a similarly decreased cardiovascular mortality risk. "

> > >

> > > http://www.plthomas.com/news%20release%20K2%20december%202006.htm

> > >

> > > Study reports that both blood levels and dietary intakes of K1 were

> > > associated with decreased levels of 14 inflammatory markers.

> > >

> > > " Our findings provide one potential alternative mechanism for a

> > > putative protective effect of vitamin K in the progression of

> > > cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis, since both diseases are

> > > characterized by inflammation. . . . "

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=81785 & m=1NIED03 & c=lqeudkuj\

> ayvvlpc

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Hi All, The pdf of the BMJ paper is availed. http://www.reuters.com:80/article/latestCrisis/idUST149309British Medical Journal re calcium supplement ^ heart disease RESEARCH:Mark J Bolland, P Alan Barber, N Doughty, Barbara Mason, Anne Horne, Ruth Ames, D Gamble, Grey, and Ian R ReidVascular events in healthy older women receiving calcium supplementation: randomised controlled trialBMJ, Jan 2008 Abstract Objective To determine the effect of calcium supplementation on myocardial infarction, stroke, and sudden death in healthy postmenopausal women. Design Randomised, placebo controlled trial. Setting Academic medical centre in an urban setting in New Zealand. Participants 1471 postmenopausal women (mean age 74): 732 were

randomised to calcium supplementation and 739 to placebo. Main outcome measures Adverse cardiovascular events over five years: death, sudden death, myocardial infarction, angina, other chest pain, stroke, transient ischaemic attack, and a composite end point of myocardial infarction, stroke, or sudden death. Results Myocardial infarction was more commonly reported in the calcium group than in the placebo group (45 events in 31 women v 19 events in 14 women, P=0.01). The composite end point of myocardial infarction, stroke, or sudden death was also more common in the calcium group (101 events in 69 women v 54 events in 42 women, P=0.008). After adjudication myocardial infarction remained more common in the calcium group (24 events in 21 women v 10 events in 10 women, relative risk 2.12, 95% confidence interval 1.01 to 4.47). For the composite end point 61 events were verified in 51 women in the calcium group and 36 events in 35 women in the placebo

group (relative risk 1.47, 0.97 to 2.23). When unreported events were added from the national database of hospital admissions in New Zealand the relative risk of myocardial infarction was 1.49 (0.86 to 2.57) and that of the composite end point was 1.21 (0.84 to 1.74). The respective rate ratios were 1.67 (95% confidence intervals 0.98 to 2.87) and 1.43 (1.01 to 2.04); event rates: placebo 16.3/1000 person years, calcium 23.3/1000 person years. For stroke (including unreported events) the relative risk was 1.37 (0.83 to 2.28) and the rate ratio was 1.45 (0.88 to 2.49). Conclusion Calcium supplementation in healthy postmenopausal women is associated with upward trends in cardiovascular event rates. This potentially detrimental effect should be balanced against the likely benefits of calcium on bone.

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PS: http://www.bmj.com:80/cgi/content/full/bmj.39440.525752.BEv1

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Hi folks:

Many thanks Al for that post. I have not read the entire paper. I don't have the time to do that right now. But what it seems to reveal has me wondering if it may entirely discredit the findings.

The percentage experiencing heart attack in the calcium group was ~5% compared with ~3%. A significant difference. BUT ........

........ the calcium group had many sizeably worse health indicators before the study started, according to the data in Table 1.

For example: percentage of current smokers 3·4 compared with 2·6 in the placebo group; former smokers 40·3% compared with 37·2%; previous hypertension ~30% vs. ~28%; previous IHD 8·1% vs. 7·3%; dyslipidemia 9·2% vs. 7·6%; previous stroke 1·6% vs. 1·0%.

I would have thought that those differences were significant also.

Perhaps this is all explained, and taken account of, elsewhere in the paper. But if not then it is unfortunate that they chose that group as the subjects for the study. Had the results been the same with the groups reversed it would have been powerful evidence of the effect claimed.

Please chime in, folks, if you believe this anomaly has been satisfactorily taken care of ........... or if I am simply confused. Thanks.

Rodney.

>> PS:> > http://www.bmj.com:80/cgi/content/full/bmj.39440.525752.BEv1> > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.>