Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 hi alana i totaly know what your sayn that why i think gina idea of a sma gay/bi group sounds good so we are all openly free to descuses our relationships without any ill fellings  lauramechelle From: Alana <alrt@...> Subject: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus Being Allies for Each Other Date: Monday, 17 November, 2008, 10:33 PM Yay for the bi's! Yay for ALL the queer folk here! It's nice to find community within community. For years I never felt a need to seek out people with the same disability as mine. I've grown up with a cross-disability identity, especially working for so long in the Independent Living Movement. I have very similar respiratory concerns as those for people with quadruplegia and all types of neuromuscular diseases; folks with cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis are talked down to just like I am by strangers in line at the bank and post office; and deaf people, blind people, and people with cognitive impairments face employment discrimination in ways similar to my own experience. I've always felt like " we're all in this together. " It was not until I got seriously ill in a way with which no one else I knew was dealing, that I sought out others with SMA. It'll be almost 6 years since Bettylou referred me here. Thank you! I never found anyone with the same health problems I have, but I was pleased to find a vibrant community of innovative and industrious people here. When I introduced myself I told people I was bisexual, and hoped to find other queer folk, too. Some wrote me off-list and others were more publically out. Since then I've been struck by how silent many group members get when someone mentions a same-sex partner. The response is markedly different or off-list from when a heterosexual partner is mentioned. " Hope you and have a great time! " might be posted, but no such post goes to the list from those same people if " " is a " Jane. " In a community like this, sexual orientation shouldn't matter, but it does. I live in a queer mecca here in Northern California where most people don't assume things about people's sexual orientation. It's amazing to be disabled here, also, because a lot of people don't assume someone has a disability or not. Disability and sexual orientation are things that aren't always visible, but the way these identities make us feel when interacting within a group, and the ways we are treated, are as varied as the individuals we are. I wish I didn't witness so much silence here when sexual orientation in on the table. I am thrilled that more people are coming out on this list, and I can't help but notice that many of these folks are younger. It shows a change in our world, that we are becoming more confident about our differences, and that we are becoming more accepting of each other. Every day I work hard to be an ally to those who are different from me. Recently, I especially find myself advocating for the freedom of my friends and family members to express their religious beliefs even though I am an atheist. It's uncomfortable for me that there is a split between some communities of faith and the queer community. On both sides we are seeing people be very divisive. I am angry that churches and temples are being vandalized in the name of gay rights. I am equally angry that some religious organizations have actively encouraged their members to fund efforts to ban same-sex civil rights. I bring this up because I'm uncomfortable with silence and divisions even in this small and close-knit community. We are usually wonderful allies to each other. I feel the silence and disapproval. I am hopeful that we can more categorically be supportive of each other about things that are core to who we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Love is good - however expressed. I agree, I am an old lady now, and yet I am still saddened by the way people judge. When I lived in London, I was lucky enough to have a huge amount of friends, some straight, some gay, some bi, and some... Well, some who don't need or want labels. I worked in counselling for 15 years, and for a short while during that time was working for a Christian based HIV focussed charity - my eyes were opened to just how loving, caring and completely open they were, aged 16 to 82, and how much work they did that other organisations with grander aspirations, had flitted over and ignored. They were Quakers. I am still a pagan (for want of a better term, not keen on labels for my beliefs). Life is too short, whether you live to 90 or like many we have known who don't make their first year. Too short not to at least talk about stuff we find uncomfortable, and try to build bridges that we can still express love without prerequisites. We all have fears, dislikes, and even hates (I really, really, don't like anything with more than four legs...! Seriously, they can outrun me and are usually stronger), but isn't that the great thing about being a thinking being? We also can simply not understand or think, and ignorance is the killer. If there is anyone who is not comfortable with the queer thread, fine, ok, just hit delete - but if you want to talk, or learn, or ever just listen - that's cool too. Sorry if I stated the obvious Alana and just reiterated Best love, From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Alana Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:33 PM Subject: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus Being Allies for Each Other Yay for the bi's! Yay for ALL the queer folk here! It's nice to find community within community. For years I never felt a need to seek out people with the same disability as mine. I've grown up with a cross-disability identity, especially working for so long in the Independent Living Movement. I have very similar respiratory concerns as those for people with quadruplegia and all types of neuromuscular diseases; folks with cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis are talked down to just like I am by strangers in line at the bank and post office; and deaf people, blind people, and people with cognitive impairments face employment discrimination in ways similar to my own experience. I've always felt like " we're all in this together. " It was not until I got seriously ill in a way with which no one else I knew was dealing, that I sought out others with SMA. It'll be almost 6 years since Bettylou referred me here. Thank you! I never found anyone with the same health problems I have, but I was pleased to find a vibrant community of innovative and industrious people here. When I introduced myself I told people I was bisexual, and hoped to find other queer folk, too. Some wrote me off-list and others were more publically out. Since then I've been struck by how silent many group members get when someone mentions a same-sex partner. The response is markedly different or off-list from when a heterosexual partner is mentioned. " Hope you and have a great time! " might be posted, but no such post goes to the list from those same people if " " is a " Jane. " In a community like this, sexual orientation shouldn't matter, but it does. I live in a queer mecca here in Northern California where most people don't assume things about people's sexual orientation. It's amazing to be disabled here, also, because a lot of people don't assume someone has a disability or not. Disability and sexual orientation are things that aren't always visible, but the way these identities make us feel when interacting within a group, and the ways we are treated, are as varied as the individuals we are. I wish I didn't witness so much silence here when sexual orientation in on the table. I am thrilled that more people are coming out on this list, and I can't help but notice that many of these folks are younger. It shows a change in our world, that we are becoming more confident about our differences, and that we are becoming more accepting of each other. Every day I work hard to be an ally to those who are different from me. Recently, I especially find myself advocating for the freedom of my friends and family members to express their religious beliefs even though I am an atheist. It's uncomfortable for me that there is a split between some communities of faith and the queer community. On both sides we are seeing people be very divisive. I am angry that churches and temples are being vandalized in the name of gay rights. I am equally angry that some religious organizations have actively encouraged their members to fund efforts to ban same-sex civil rights. I bring this up because I'm uncomfortable with silence and divisions even in this small and close-knit community. We are usually wonderful allies to each other. I feel the silence and disapproval. I am hopeful that we can more categorically be supportive of each other about things that are core to who we are. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3619 (20081117) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 , You rock. And you didn't reiterate. You helped push the silence back. I especially like how you address what we can do with these short lives. Cheers! Al > > Love is good - however expressed. > > > > Life is too short, whether you live to 90 or like many we have known who > don't make their first year. Too short not to at least talk about stuff we > find uncomfortable, and try to build bridges that we can still express love > without prerequisites. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi mechelle, I totally understand the value of having a separate place to share with people more like oneself. It is why I've been in women's support groups, and a disabled women's theater group, and a youth group at my church growing up, and in an anti-nuclear direct action affinity group in the '80s, and an advocate in the Disability Rights Movement, and even why I've been willing to be the token cripple in classes training HIV counselors and domestic violence counselors. We all need to feel we belong and we all need support. I am fortunate to have found an amazing community around me, so I am less in need of a separate group where I can be myself. As those who've known me for a while, I am myself unapologetically pretty much wherever I go. I can see how a queer SMA group might be a really great thing for people and I'm sure it will fill a need. My point, though, is that I'm hopeful that we can be supportive to each other here in this group, even when we disagree about things, without having to be silent about significant parts of who we are. Alana > > hi alana i totaly know what your sayn that why i think gina idea of a sma gay/bi group sounds good so we are all openly free to descuses our relationships without any ill fellings > Â > lauramechelle > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Alana, , michelle and everyone who is following this thread I love you!! I am so Happy we are having this conversation ‘right here, right now’ I hope that it is ok to stay in the mainstream, for so many years I have felt that I cannot be my whole self on one list or another – even in the work I do I have to ‘dumb down’ my views, my SMA, my sexuality or my ‘womaness’, I am so lucky that my small circle of friends and I live in queer world and that they understand disability but to have you all discussing this – that you are like me’ is so powerful for me. I would like to stay on this list, unless there is an objection from others. I have loads more to say but I am only typing 10 words a minute at the mo and I need to cough and sleep I’ll say more tomorrow, hopefully Lots of love and xxx xxxx xxx From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Alana Sent: 17 November 2008 22:25 Subject: Re: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus Being Allies for Each Other Hi mechelle I totally understand the value of having a separate place to share with people more like oneself. It is why I've been in women's support groups, and a disabled women's theater group, and a youth group at my church growing up, and in an anti-nuclear direct action affinity group in the '80s, and an advocate in the Disability Rights Movement, and even why I've been willing to be the token cripple in classes training HIV counselors and domestic violence counselors. We all need to feel we belong and we all need support. I am fortunate to have found an amazing community around me, so I am less in need of a separate group where I can be myself. As those who've known me for a while, I am myself unapologetically pretty much wherever I go. I can see how a queer SMA group might be a really great thing for people and I'm sure it will fill a need. My point, though, is that I'm hopeful that we can be supportive to each other here in this group, even when we disagree about things, without having to be silent about significant parts of who we are. Alana > > hi alana i totaly know what your sayn that why i think gina idea of a sma gay/bi group sounds good so we are all openly free to descuses our relationships without any ill fellings > Â > lauramechelle > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1794 - Release Date: 17/11/2008 08:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 i too am tired of having bits of me here and bits there, and for me that also includes issues around class, so personally would prefer not to have to separate sexuality issues to another group. i am generally pretty asexual but if push came to shove i would jump in the bi boat! btw a late welcome nat from another brit, i am 45, sma 2, and live with two men, two hens and one poodle. if you want to IM i am on as annaquayuk, skype as annaquay and lindajmoss@... on google chat. also gina! i have missed you!!! linda 2008/11/17 Meadows <mulberry1104@...> > Alana, , michelle and everyone who is following this thread > > I love you!! I am so Happy we are having this conversation 'right here, > right now' I hope that it is ok to stay in the mainstream, for so many > years > I have felt that I cannot be my whole self on one list or another – even in > the work I do I have to 'dumb down' my views, my SMA, my sexuality or my > 'womaness', > > I am so lucky that my small circle of friends and I live in queer world and > that they understand disability but to have you all discussing this – that > you are like me' is so powerful for me. I would like to stay on this list, > unless there is an objection from others. > > I have loads more to say but I am only typing 10 words a minute at the mo > and I need to cough and sleep > > I'll say more tomorrow, hopefully > > Lots of love > > and > > xxx xxxx xxx > > From: <%40> [mailto: > <%40>] On > Behalf Of Alana > Sent: 17 November 2008 22:25 > <%40> > Subject: Re: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus > Being > Allies for Each Other > > Hi mechelle > > I totally understand the value of having a separate place to share with > people more like oneself. It is why I've been in women's support > groups, and a disabled women's theater group, and a youth group at my > church growing up, and in an anti-nuclear direct action affinity group > in the '80s, and an advocate in the Disability Rights Movement, and > even why I've been willing to be the token cripple in classes training > HIV counselors and domestic violence counselors. We all need to feel > we belong and we all need support. > > I am fortunate to have found an amazing community around me, so I am > less in need of a separate group where I can be myself. As those > who've known me for a while, I am myself unapologetically pretty much > wherever I go. I can see how a queer SMA group might be a really > great thing for people and I'm sure it will fill a need. My point, > though, is that I'm hopeful that we can be supportive to each other > here in this group, even when we disagree about things, without having > to be silent about significant parts of who we are. > > Alana > > > > > > hi alana i totaly know what your sayn that why i think gina idea of a > sma gay/bi group sounds good so we are all openly free to descuses our > relationships without any ill fellings > > Â > > lauramechelle > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1794 - Release Date: 17/11/2008 > 08:48 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Not that anyone here was asking for approval, and not that I'm trying to offere it (i don't have that right!), but..... I don't really understand why anyone gives a flying frog fart which gender someone is attracted to. I guess I'm a little socially inept in that way, but I can't find it in me to care! I think we'd really be losing something if all of the differently oriented groups split off, and I'd like to see the free and open communication continue on chat. Love and Hugs Jeni ________________________________ From: Alana <alrt@...> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 3:33:05 PM Subject: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus Being Allies for Each Other Yay for the bi's! Yay for ALL the queer folk here! It's nice to find community within community. For years I never felt a need to seek out people with the same disability as mine. I've grown up with a cross-disability identity, especially working for so long in the Independent Living Movement. I have very similar respiratory concerns as those for people with quadruplegia and all types of neuromuscular diseases; folks with cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis are talked down to just like I am by strangers in line at the bank and post office; and deaf people, blind people, and people with cognitive impairments face employment discrimination in ways similar to my own experience. I've always felt like " we're all in this together. " It was not until I got seriously ill in a way with which no one else I knew was dealing, that I sought out others with SMA. It'll be almost 6 years since Bettylou referred me here. Thank you! I never found anyone with the same health problems I have, but I was pleased to find a vibrant community of innovative and industrious people here. When I introduced myself I told people I was bisexual, and hoped to find other queer folk, too. Some wrote me off-list and others were more publically out. Since then I've been struck by how silent many group members get when someone mentions a same-sex partner. The response is markedly different or off-list from when a heterosexual partner is mentioned. " Hope you and have a great time! " might be posted, but no such post goes to the list from those same people if " " is a " Jane. " In a community like this, sexual orientation shouldn't matter, but it does. I live in a queer mecca here in Northern California where most people don't assume things about people's sexual orientation. It's amazing to be disabled here, also, because a lot of people don't assume someone has a disability or not. Disability and sexual orientation are things that aren't always visible, but the way these identities make us feel when interacting within a group, and the ways we are treated, are as varied as the individuals we are. I wish I didn't witness so much silence here when sexual orientation in on the table. I am thrilled that more people are coming out on this list, and I can't help but notice that many of these folks are younger. It shows a change in our world, that we are becoming more confident about our differences, and that we are becoming more accepting of each other. Every day I work hard to be an ally to those who are different from me. Recently, I especially find myself advocating for the freedom of my friends and family members to express their religious beliefs even though I am an atheist. It's uncomfortable for me that there is a split between some communities of faith and the queer community. On both sides we are seeing people be very divisive. I am angry that churches and temples are being vandalized in the name of gay rights. I am equally angry that some religious organizations have actively encouraged their members to fund efforts to ban same-sex civil rights. I bring this up because I'm uncomfortable with silence and divisions even in this small and close-knit community. We are usually wonderful allies to each other. I feel the silence and disapproval. I am hopeful that we can more categorically be supportive of each other about things that are core to who we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 I agree, Alana! It's been great to see all the recent discussions circulating on this board around disability AND queer sexuality. I love the sense of disability community and queer community in the Bay Area, and found pockets of crossover communities here and there. However, the best group I found while a student at Cal broke all the boundaries open and has only been growing stronger called " Are Cripples Screwed? " It's about time we start discussing it on this board, also. I rejoice when I see crossover on this board and elsewhere in life. I rejoice when people don't tolerate, but respect and accept. I rejoice when I'm not questioned for making a queer comment while out with my husband. <3Kendra > > Yay for the bi's! Yay for ALL the queer folk here! It's nice to > find community within community. > > For years I never felt a need to seek out people with the same > disability as mine. I've grown up with a cross-disability identity, > especially working for so long in the Independent Living Movement. I > have very similar respiratory concerns as those for people with > quadruplegia and all types of neuromuscular diseases; folks with > cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis are talked down to just like I > am by strangers in line at the bank and post office; and deaf people, > blind people, and people with cognitive impairments face employment > discrimination in ways similar to my own experience. I've always > felt like " we're all in this together. " > > It was not until I got seriously ill in a way with which no one else > I knew was dealing, that I sought out others with SMA. It'll be > almost 6 years since Bettylou referred me here. Thank you! I never > found anyone with the same health problems I have, but I was pleased > to find a vibrant community of innovative and industrious people here. > > When I introduced myself I told people I was bisexual, and hoped to > find other queer folk, too. Some wrote me off-list and others were > more publically out. Since then I've been struck by how silent many > group members get when someone mentions a same-sex partner. The > response is markedly different or off-list from when a heterosexual > partner is mentioned. " Hope you and have a great time! " might > be posted, but no such post goes to the list from those same people > if " " is a " Jane. " > > In a community like this, sexual orientation shouldn't matter, but it > does. I live in a queer mecca here in Northern California where most > people don't assume things about people's sexual orientation. It's > amazing to be disabled here, also, because a lot of people don't > assume someone has a disability or not. Disability and sexual > orientation are things that aren't always visible, but the way these > identities make us feel when interacting within a group, and the ways > we are treated, are as varied as the individuals we are. I wish I > didn't witness so much silence here when sexual orientation in on the > table. > > I am thrilled that more people are coming out on this list, and I > can't help but notice that many of these folks are younger. It shows > a change in our world, that we are becoming more confident about our > differences, and that we are becoming more accepting of each other. > Every day I work hard to be an ally to those who are different from > me. Recently, I especially find myself advocating for the freedom of > my friends and family members to express their religious beliefs even > though I am an atheist. It's uncomfortable for me that there is a > split between some communities of faith and the queer community. On > both sides we are seeing people be very divisive. I am angry that > churches and temples are being vandalized in the name of gay rights. > I am equally angry that some religious organizations have actively > encouraged their members to fund efforts to ban same-sex civil rights. > > I bring this up because I'm uncomfortable with silence and divisions > even in this small and close-knit community. We are usually > wonderful allies to each other. I feel the silence and disapproval. > I am hopeful that we can more categorically be supportive of each > other about things that are core to who we are. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I am so sorry, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek, as although I think would have a valuable place for those of us who may need to chat in more detail about something so OT, I was kind of being a bit (un) comical, as I am always right there in the tiniest minority of all minorities. When I was very young it made me feel quite scared and alone, but as I grew up I realised that I just didn't need to fit in to the larger majorities' opinion of what was normal. I never could, even if I'd tried with all my might ;-) But seriously, if you ever want to chat, you are really welcome. And if you do feel that it may be useful to have a group to discuss the practicalities both emotionally and physically (*smile*), then why don't you start up a group? I will definitely join :-) It works both ways, segregation and integration and there will always be good arguments for either option -- which it is, it's always an option and you are always in charge. Oppression is the thing to avoid I really hope you are recovering from your broken heart. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of as if Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus Being Allies for Each Other hi alana i totaly know what your sayn that why i think gina idea of a sma gay/bi group sounds good so we are all openly free to descuses our relationships without any ill fellings lauramechelle From: Alana <alrt@... <mailto:alrt%40comcast.net> > Subject: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus Being Allies for Each Other <mailto:%40> Date: Monday, 17 November, 2008, 10:33 PM Yay for the bi's! Yay for ALL the queer folk here! It's nice to find community within community. For years I never felt a need to seek out people with the same disability as mine. I've grown up with a cross-disability identity, especially working for so long in the Independent Living Movement. I have very similar respiratory concerns as those for people with quadruplegia and all types of neuromuscular diseases; folks with cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis are talked down to just like I am by strangers in line at the bank and post office; and deaf people, blind people, and people with cognitive impairments face employment discrimination in ways similar to my own experience. I've always felt like " we're all in this together. " It was not until I got seriously ill in a way with which no one else I knew was dealing, that I sought out others with SMA. It'll be almost 6 years since Bettylou referred me here. Thank you! I never found anyone with the same health problems I have, but I was pleased to find a vibrant community of innovative and industrious people here. When I introduced myself I told people I was bisexual, and hoped to find other queer folk, too. Some wrote me off-list and others were more publically out. Since then I've been struck by how silent many group members get when someone mentions a same-sex partner. The response is markedly different or off-list from when a heterosexual partner is mentioned. " Hope you and have a great time! " might be posted, but no such post goes to the list from those same people if " " is a " Jane. " In a community like this, sexual orientation shouldn't matter, but it does. I live in a queer mecca here in Northern California where most people don't assume things about people's sexual orientation. It's amazing to be disabled here, also, because a lot of people don't assume someone has a disability or not. Disability and sexual orientation are things that aren't always visible, but the way these identities make us feel when interacting within a group, and the ways we are treated, are as varied as the individuals we are. I wish I didn't witness so much silence here when sexual orientation in on the table. I am thrilled that more people are coming out on this list, and I can't help but notice that many of these folks are younger. It shows a change in our world, that we are becoming more confident about our differences, and that we are becoming more accepting of each other. Every day I work hard to be an ally to those who are different from me. Recently, I especially find myself advocating for the freedom of my friends and family members to express their religious beliefs even though I am an atheist. It's uncomfortable for me that there is a split between some communities of faith and the queer community. On both sides we are seeing people be very divisive. I am angry that churches and temples are being vandalized in the name of gay rights. I am equally angry that some religious organizations have actively encouraged their members to fund efforts to ban same-sex civil rights. I bring this up because I'm uncomfortable with silence and divisions even in this small and close-knit community. We are usually wonderful allies to each other. I feel the silence and disapproval. I am hopeful that we can more categorically be supportive of each other about things that are core to who we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Hi there! Seriously got to sort out my telephone so that I can make phone calls again! Perhaps you could send me your number off-list? Re: OT: Thread on Sexual Orientation, cont. Plus > Being > Allies for Each Other > > Hi mechelle > > I totally understand the value of having a separate place to share with > people more like oneself. It is why I've been in women's support > groups, and a disabled women's theater group, and a youth group at my > church growing up, and in an anti-nuclear direct action affinity group > in the '80s, and an advocate in the Disability Rights Movement, and > even why I've been willing to be the token cripple in classes training > HIV counselors and domestic violence counselors. We all need to feel > we belong and we all need support. > > I am fortunate to have found an amazing community around me, so I am > less in need of a separate group where I can be myself. As those > who've known me for a while, I am myself unapologetically pretty much > wherever I go. I can see how a queer SMA group might be a really > great thing for people and I'm sure it will fill a need. My point, > though, is that I'm hopeful that we can be supportive to each other > here in this group, even when we disagree about things, without having > to be silent about significant parts of who we are. > > Alana > > > > > > hi alana i totaly know what your sayn that why i think gina idea of a > sma gay/bi group sounds good so we are all openly free to descuses our > relationships without any ill fellings > > Â > > lauramechelle > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1794 - Release Date: 17/11/2008 > 08:48 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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