Re: Loss of Height with Age

July 9, 2008

Hi JW:

It seems to me there are two possibilities:

Either CRONies lose height faster than the general population because of the bone effects of carrying less weight around, or:

CRONies lose height more slowly because they are aging more slowly.

Might it be a good idea to do a survey of those on CRON in the group to see whether we are losing height faster or slower than the one centimeter per decade after age 40 described as typical by NIH?

According to that formula I should be about 1.02 inches shorter than I was. I am fairly sure I am not. But I would need to get my height accurately measured to know for sure.

The formula for what the typical individual's current height would be in inches is:

Peak height - ((current age - 40) x 0.0393)

Anyone interested?

Rodney.

>> I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk flattening, and spine bending?> I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone shrinkage.> > Regards> > [ ] Loss of Height with Age> > > > Hi folks:> > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > Particularly the following:> > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65 could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40. > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our personal aging rate. Possibly?> > Rodney.>

July 9, 2008

I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk flattening, and spine bending?

I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone shrinkage.

Regards

[ ] Loss of Height with Age

Hi folks:

This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm

Particularly the following:

"People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."

If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.

For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65 could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40.

The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our personal aging rate. Possibly?

Rodney.

July 9, 2008

Hmmmm. Might this be a good way of measuring whether the “osteo” we sometimes

see in Cronies is true bone loss or just “lighter” bones as we have theorized? IOW if our height is the same, perhaps there is no bone loss.

(OTOH my dentist tells me that I have bone loss afa my gums)

From: Rodney <perspect1111@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:15:26 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: Loss of Height with Age

Hi JW:

It seems to me there are two possibilities:

Either CRONies lose height faster than the general population because of the bone effects of carrying less weight around, or:

CRONies lose height more slowly because they are aging more slowly.

Might it be a good idea to do a survey of those on CRON in the group to see whether we are losing height faster or slower than the one centimeter per decade after age 40 described as typical by NIH?

According to that formula I should be about 1.02 inches shorter than I was. I am fairly sure I am not. But I would need to get my height accurately measured to know for sure.

The formula for what the typical individual's current height would be in inches is:

Peak height - ((current age - 40) x 0.0393)

Anyone interested?

Rodney.

>

> I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk flattening, and spine bending?

> I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone shrinkage.

>

> Regards

>

> [ ] Loss of Height with Age

>

> Hi folks:

>

> This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:

>

> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm

>

> Particularly the following:

>

> " People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old. "

>

> If we know how tall we were at peak ! height, and measure our current height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.

>

> For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65 could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40.

>

> The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our personal aging rate. Possibly?

>

> Rodney.

>

July 9, 2008

Rod, Fran, et al.. I question whether this is reliable or much of a marker for aging in CRON.For the record I am now 5'10", when younger, I was 5'10.5-10.75" I suspect I was cheating taller than actual because I wanted to be 6' so probably 5'10.5". At 59 YO I guess I am pretty close to the formula,... (I really hate that for some reason).At least one CRONie comes to mind (AP), IIRC he has lost quite a bit of his youthful stature, so this is likely to be conflicted by heavy DR.JRPS: Fran.. Additional bone loss in the mouth region can be caused the body defensively trying to dissolve away something like an infected tooth, in response to local irritation, caused by bacterial byproducts. A bad tooth falling out is not coincidence but the body rejecting a source of irritation. Severe, unresolved dental issues can lead to jaw bone deterioration. The mouth is a very friendly environment for bacteria which can be persistent and hard to completely eliminate. Thorough, regular brushing is important even if consuming low calories and little sugar. Otherwise I suspect our jaw bone may attenuate similar to other bones based on general bone health. On Jul 9, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Francesca Skelton wrote:Hmmmm. Might this be a good way of measuring whether the “osteo” we sometimessee in Cronies is true bone loss or just “lighter” bones as we have theorized? IOW if our height is the same, perhaps there is no bone loss.(OTOH my dentist tells me that I have bone loss afa my gums)From: Rodney <perspect1111 >Reply-To: < >Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:15:26 -0000To: < >Subject: [ ] Re: Loss of Height with Age Hi JW:It seems to me there are two possibilities:Either CRONies lose height faster than the general population because of the bone effects of carrying less weight around, or:CRONies lose height more slowly because they are aging more slowly.Might it be a good idea to do a survey of those on CRON in the group to see whether we are losing height faster or slower than the one centimeter per decade after age 40 described as typical by NIH?According to that formula I should be about 1.02 inches shorter than I was. I am fairly sure I am not. But I would need to get my height accurately measured to know for sure.The formula for what the typical individual's current height would be in inches is:Peak height - ((current age - 40) x 0.0393)Anyone interested?Rodney.>> I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk flattening, and spine bending?> I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone shrinkage.> > Regards> > [ ] Loss of Height with Age> > > > Hi folks:> > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > Particularly the following:> > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > If we know how tall we were at peak ! height, and measure our current height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65 could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40. > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our personal aging rate. Possibly?> > Rodney.>

July 9, 2008

Hi folks:

Based on the formula, as near as makes no difference, shrinkage would be expected to be:

Age Inches

----- ----------

40 0.0

45 0.2

50 0.4

55 0.6

60 0.8

65 1.0

70 1.2

75 1.4

80 1.6

Rodney.

> >> > I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk flattening, and spine bending?> > I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone shrinkage.> > > > Regards> > > > [ ] Loss of Height with Age> > > > > > > > Hi folks:> > > > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > > > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > > > Particularly the following:> > > > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > > > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > > > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65 could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40. > > > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our personal aging rate. Possibly?> > > > Rodney.> >>

July 9, 2008

At 72.5 yo, I've lost 1 " since age 20.

Regards

[ ] Re: Loss of Height with Age

Hi JW:

It seems to me there are two possibilities:

Either CRONies lose height faster than the general population because of the

bone effects of carrying less weight around, or:

CRONies lose height more slowly because they are aging more slowly.

Might it be a good idea to do a survey of those on CRON in the group to see

whether we are losing height faster or slower than the one centimeter per

decade after age 40 described as typical by NIH?

According to that formula I should be about 1.02 inches shorter than I was.

I am fairly sure I am not. But I would need to get my height accurately

measured to know for sure.

The formula for what the typical individual's current height would be in

inches is:

Peak height - ((current age - 40) x 0.0393)

Anyone interested?

Rodney.

>

> I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk flattening,

and spine bending?

> I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone

shrinkage.

>

> Regards

>

July 9, 2008

Correction:

That was Dr office measurement.

I just measured back and head against a wall trying to get spine length and it was 0.25 less at 5' 9.25".

Oddly my wife measures 5' 6.125" now and I recall she was 5' 5.5".

???

Maybe inaccuracies in measurement?

Regards

[ ] Loss of Height with Age> > > > Hi folks:> > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > Particularly the following:> > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65 could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40. > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our personal aging rate. Possibly?> > Rodney.>

July 9, 2008

I just measured myself barefoot against the door where I have my

height marks. Indeed, I may have lost some height. I used to be 68 "

now I am 67.3 " (171 cm).

I cannot say whether CR has contributed more to the decrease in height

because I did not have very accurate historical records of my height.

Many " official " measurements are taken with the shoes on, so this

would be enough to account for the discrepancy.

Tony

> > >

> > > I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk

> flattening, and spine bending?

> > > I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone

> shrinkage.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > [ ] Loss of Height with Age

> > >

> > > Hi folks:

> > >

> > > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:

> > >

> > > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm

> > >

> > > Particularly the following:

> > >

> > > " People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after

> age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old. "

> > >

> > > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current

> height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.

> > >

> > > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65

> could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40.

> > >

> > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected

> rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our

> personal aging rate. Possibly?

> > >

> > > Rodney.

> > >

> >

>

July 10, 2008

At age 21 at my induction physical (Air Force), I was said to be 5' 11 " tall, that may have been a bit of a " stretch " on my part ....... but throughout my young life I was around 5' 10.5 "

Didn't start focusing on my height until I started CR-ON a year ago I now measure 5' 8 " at age 79, probably most of it due to curvature of my thoracic spine (senile Kyphosis?)Whatever, I feel better physically and mentally at my new low weight than at any point in the past 5 years or so.

Regards to allOupa

July 10, 2008

Hi folks:

This is interesting:

PMID: 17159023

Especially this chart:

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/content/vol166/issue22/images/medium/ioi60152f1.gif

http://snipurl.com/2w3hy

And the fact that the rate of loss of height seems to be twice as fast over a 20 year period when that period starts at age 57 compared with age 42 ......... 2·3 cm starting from age 57 versus 1·2 cm starting at 42.

It would have been nice if they had provided the mean rate of loss at each five year increment of age, but they don't seem to have done so. But I suppose we could work out what those numbers are, approximately .

Rodney.

> > >> > > I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk> flattening, and spine bending?> > > I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone> shrinkage.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > [ ] Loss of Height with Age> > >> > >> > >> > > Hi folks:> > >> > > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > >> > > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > >> > > Particularly the following:> > >> > > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after> age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > >> > > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current> height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > >> > > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65> could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40.> > >> > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected> rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our> personal aging rate. Possibly?> > >> > > Rodney.> > >> >>

July 10, 2008

............ and this:

Abstract

"Osteoporosis of the hip is associated with hip fracture, a devastating outcome on both an individual and aggregate basis. Height loss is a frequent manifestation of vertebral osteoporosis and is simple to evaluate in the clinical setting. The goal of this study was to determine whether height loss is significantly associated with low bone mineral density at the femur, using a retrospective review of cross-sectional data from 2108 women referred for a bone density scan.

Collected data included self-reported maximum adult height, current height, and total hip bone mineral density, along with other demographic and risk factor information. We then investigated the relationship between height loss and osteoporosis using multinomial logistic regression modeling.

We found that height loss of 2 in. or more is a highly significant predictor of osteoporosis at the hip. In particular, the odds women had osteoporosis at the hip, as determined by total hip bone mineral density, increased 4.4 times (95% confidence interval, 2.6¨C7.4) if the women had lost ¡Ý2 but <3 in. of height. In addition, women with at least 3 in. of height loss had odds of osteoporosis of the hip that were 9.6 times greater (95% confidence interval, 4.8¨C19.2) than women with less than an inch of height loss. These odds ratios were adjusted for the confounding variables of age, weight, and maximum adult height.

Our findings suggest loss of height may be an important clue in detecting osteoporosis of the hip, implying evaluation of height loss should be routine in the outpatient setting."

PMID: 14742889

Rodney.

> > > >> > > > I wonder if we can distinguish between bone shrinkage, disk> > flattening, and spine bending?> > > > I recall several CRONies stating size reduction maybe due to bone> > shrinkage.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > [ ] Loss of Height with Age> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hi folks:> > > >> > > > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > > >> > > > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > > >> > > > Particularly the following:> > > >> > > > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years> after> > age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > > >> > > > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our> current> > height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > > >> > > > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65> > could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40.> > > >> > > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the> expected> > rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of> our> > personal aging rate. Possibly?> > > >> > > > Rodney.> > > >> > >> >>

July 10, 2008

From the full text:

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/166/22/2546

"Conclusion Marked height loss (3 cm) in older men is independently associated with an increased risk of all-cause mortality and coronary heart disease."

Seems to me that reduced heart capacity would drive height loss, rather than the opposite.

Some increased height?

Funny because 84 yo bro, overweight, CHF, has not lost height or weight in the last 20 yrs.

6'2" 220#.

It's those averages again.

Regards

[ ] Loss of Height with Age> > >> > >> > >> > > Hi folks:> > >> > > This, from the NIH website, if accurate, is interesting:> > >> > > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003998.htm> > >> > > Particularly the following:> > >> > > "People typically lose about 1 cm (0.4 inches) every 10 years after> age 40. Height loss is even greater after 70 years old."> > >> > > If we know how tall we were at peak height, and measure our current> height, this may provide another measure of how well we are aging.> > >> > > For example, using the 1 cm/10 years benchmark, someone aged 65> could expect to be 2.5 cm shorter (2.5 cm = one inch) than at age 40.> > >> > > The rate of loss of height after age 40, compared with the expected> rate, might be another approximate biomarker (to add to the list) of our> personal aging rate. Possibly?> > >> > > Rodney.> > >> >>

July 11, 2008

Hi folks:

Well yesterday I measured my height several times, at each of four different times of day using two different postures. There are four points of interest:

First, if I line up with my heels, butt, upper back and head all against the wall I am consistently about 3/8" taller than if I line up only my heels, back and head.

Second, I was about 5/8" taller at 6 am than I was at 8 pm. (Credit for this 'discovery' goes to someone here, probably Dr. Dowling, who alerted me to this phenomenon a few years ago.)

Third, after doing 20 squats with a fairly heavy weight at 8:15 pm I shrank by a further 1/16" - 1/8".

Fourth, because of the study posted earlier which showed a pronounced acceleration in loss of height at older ages, if we use the "one centimeter per ten years" criterion previously discussed, and look at where we stand at age 60, we will get the mistaken impression that we have little to worry about. Height loss before 60 is much slower than height loss after 60. It seems from data in a study posted earlier that the rate of loss of height when aged in the early 70s may be four times as fast as in the early 40s.

So, if we are going to get some meaningful data out of this we are going to have to be very careful how we do it. Do we remember how our measurements, taken so long ago, were done?

My height (inches) measured five times during the day yesterday came out as follows:

6:00 AM 70·62 70·3111:15 AM 70·25 69·944:30 PM 70·12 69.818:00 PM 70·00 69·698:20 PM 69·90 69·59

[The left column shows my height with heel, butt, back and head against the wall. The right column with heel, back and head only.]

Based on this my best guess is that I have lost 1.7 cm of height since I was 20.

But at 6 AM yesterday with my heels, butt, back and head against the wall I was as tall as I was measured to be at 11:15 AM at age 18.

FWIW

Rodney.

> >> > > > Hi folks:> > > > Based on the formula, as near as makes no difference, shrinkage would be> > expected to be:> > > > Age Inches> > > > ----- ----------> > > > 40 0.0> > > > 45 0.2> > > > 50 0.4> > > > 55 0.6> > > > 60 0.8> > > > 65 1.0> > > > 70 1.2> > > > 75 1.4> > > > 80 1.6> > > > Rodney.

July 11, 2008

Right,

And I think I'm as tall as I ever was, except for maybe 1 disk flattened. All my measurements have been at a physical taken by the nurse with a wall mounted caliper and I wasn't backed up to it and often I was half asleep.

The one I remember from age 20 was with 1" hard heels on, backed to a wall and it was 5' 10.5". I was a skinny 145 # then.

I think the study might be a better indication of health (0steo, CVD, malnutrition) rather than aging.

Remember, the people they measured were alive.