[high protein diet (was: Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?)

[Guest guest]

Can you please post the source for this statement???

This is almost diametrically opposed to Rod’s methionine theory.

TIA

From: bill4cr <bill4cr@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:42 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?

Mice on CR lived longer on a higher protein diet.

[Guest guest]

Your Pubmed reference is interesting but over 20 years old. Do you have anything more recent along those lines?

Of course Rod has been using studies to make his case or nobody here would be taking him very seriously. See the file about protein restriction under “CRON SCIENCE”.

Rod’s studies have been much more recent and I expect he’ll have something to post about all this (as most of us know, Rod is not shy about speaking out :-)

From: bill4cr <bill4cr@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:07:25 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] [high protein diet (was: Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?)

sorry here is the reference.. PMID: 3958810

> >

> >

> > Can you please post the source for this statement???

> >

> > This is almost diametrically opposed to Rod’s methionine theory.

> >

> > TIA

> >

> >

> > From: bill4cr <bill4cr@>

> > Reply-< <mailto: %40> >

> > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:42 -0000

> > < <mailto: %40> >

> > Subject: [ ] Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?

> >

> > Mice on CR lived longer on a higher protein diet.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rodney is using studies like the China Study and the recent de-emphasis on methionine.

Those have been quoted.

Again you do not answer the question.

Is Dr wrong?

I find nothing in google or pubmed to support your idea. (yet)

animal studies are suspect:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/NewsletterArchive/april272007.html

FIRST you need a mouse/rat/primate model of a human.

's studies were animal and human.

Regards

[ ] Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?> > Mice on CR lived longer on a higher protein diet.>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Jeeez. I really don't want to have to waste the time on answering this. I am busier these days. But I will certainly do so if at least three other members are prepared to post here that they - as well as Bill4CR - are also confused about where I stand and why.

But very briefly, the following comment of mine:

"Point 1: CR is 80+% of all of it. The rest is detail, but important detail sometimes."

........... was posted by me because someone said they were in need of guidance and asked for people's OPINIONS.

So I started out that post saying that since he asked for *****OPINIONS***** here were *****MINE*****.

Hello?

As I said, if three more people post here, or privately to Francesca, to tell us they are confused about specific details of what I have posted, I.E. it is not just one nit-picky person here out of 2900 members, then I will be happy to clarify points raised.

Tap, tap, tap, ............................

: ^ )))))

Rodney.

> > > >> > > > > > > > Can you please post the source for this statement???> > > > > > > > This is almost diametrically opposed to Rod¹s methionine theory.> > > > > > > > TIA> > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill4cr <bill4cr@>> > > > Reply- > > <mailto: %40> >> > > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:42 -0000> > > > > > <mailto: %40> >> > > > Subject: [ ] Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?> > > > > > > > Mice on CR lived longer on a higher protein diet.> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

The reference PMID: 3958810, Does NOT support the statement "Mice on CR lived longer on a higher protein diet"Here is the abstract:We sought to clarify the impact of dietary restriction (undernutrition

without malnutrition) on aging. Female mice from a long-lived strain

were fed after weaning in one of six ways: group 1) a nonpurified diet

ad libitum; 2) 85 kcal/wk of a purified diet (approximately 25%

restriction); 3) 50 kcal/wk of a restricted purified diet enriched in

protein, vitamin and mineral content to provide nearly equal intakes of

these essentials as in group 2 (approximately 55% restriction); 4) as

per group 3, but also restricted before weaning; 5) 50 kcal/wk of a

vitamin- and mineral-enriched diet but with protein intake gradually

reduced over the life span; 6) 40 kcal/wk of the diet fed to groups 3

and 4 (approximately 65% restriction). Mice from groups 3-6 exhibited

mean and maximal life spans 35-65% greater than for group 1 and 20-40%

greater than for group 2. Mice from group 6 lived longest of all. The

longest lived 10% of mice from group 6 averaged 53.0 mo which, to our

knowledge, exceeds reported values for any mice of any strain.

Beneficial influences on tumor patterns and on declines with age in

T-lymphocyte proliferation were most striking in group 6. Significant

positive correlations between adult body weight and longevity occurred

in groups 3-5 suggesting that increased metabolic efficiency may be

related to longevity in restricted mice. Mice from groups 3-6 ate

approximately 30% more calories per gram of mouse over the life span

than did mice from group 2. These findings show the profound anti-aging

effects of dietary restriction and provide new information for

optimizing restriction regimes.(The following is my interpretation of the abstract)Group 2 had a protein restriction of 25% (it was restriction of the amount consumed, so it affected the protein intake), so did group 3 (it had a higher caloric restriction, but the same amount of protein given to group 2).Group 6 (the longest lived) used the same food given to group 3, but in smaller amounts. It means 29.5% of protein restriction..It seems to me that this paper gives foundation to the moto "calorie restriction with optimum nutrition", just that.--- El vie 29-ago-08, bill4cr <bill4cr@...> escribió:De:: bill4cr <bill4cr@...>Asunto: [ ] [high protein

diet (was: Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?)A: Fecha: viernes, 29 agosto, 2008, 4:07 pm

sorry here is the reference.. PMID: 3958810

> >

> >

> > Can you please post the source for this statement???

> >

> > This is almost diametrically opposed to Rod¹s methionine theory.

> >

> > TIA

> >

> >

> > From: bill4cr <bill4cr@>

> > Reply-< >

> > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:42 -0000

> > < >

> > Subject: [ ] Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?

> >

> > Mice on CR lived longer on a higher protein diet.

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

I agree. It's hard to claim high pro when it's being used for energy.

Regards

Re: [ ] [high protein diet (was: Re: LowCarb or

LowAGEs?)

The reference PMID: 3958810, Does NOT support the statement " Mice on CR

lived longer on a higher protein diet "

Here is the abstract:

We sought to clarify the impact of dietary restriction (undernutrition

without malnutrition) on aging. Female mice from a long-lived strain were

fed after weaning in one of six ways: group 1) a nonpurified diet ad

libitum; 2) 85 kcal/wk of a purified diet (approximately 25% restriction);

3) 50 kcal/wk of a restricted purified diet enriched in protein, vitamin and

mineral content to provide nearly equal intakes of these essentials as in

group 2 (approximately 55% restriction); 4) as per group 3, but also

restricted before weaning; 5) 50 kcal/wk of a vitamin- and mineral-enriched

diet but with protein intake gradually reduced over the life span; 6) 40

kcal/wk of the diet fed to groups 3 and 4 (approximately 65% restriction).

Mice from groups 3-6 exhibited mean and maximal life spans 35-65% greater

than for group 1 and 20-40% greater than for group 2. Mice from group 6

lived longest of all. The longest lived 10% of mice from group 6 averaged

53.0 mo which, to our knowledge, exceeds reported values for any mice of any

strain. Beneficial influences on tumor patterns and on declines with age in

T-lymphocyte proliferation were most striking in group 6. Significant

positive correlations between adult body weight and longevity occurred in

groups 3-5 suggesting that increased metabolic efficiency may be related to

longevity in restricted mice. Mice from groups 3-6 ate approximately 30%

more calories per gram of mouse over the life span than did mice from group

2. These findings show the profound anti-aging effects of dietary

restriction and provide new information for optimizing restriction regimes.

(The following is my interpretation of the abstract)

Group 2 had a protein restriction of 25% (it was restriction of the amount

consumed, so it affected the protein intake), so did group 3 (it had a

higher caloric restriction, but the same amount of protein given to group

2).

Group 6 (the longest lived) used the same food given to group 3, but in

smaller amounts. It means 29.5% of protein restriction..

It seems to me that this paper gives foundation to the moto " calorie

restriction with optimum nutrition " , just that.

--- El vie 29-ago-08, bill4cr <bill4cr@...> escribió:

De:: bill4cr <bill4cr@...>

Asunto: [ ] [high protein diet (was: Re: LowCarb or LowAGEs?)

A:

Fecha: viernes, 29 agosto, 2008, 4:07 pm

sorry here is the reference.. PMID: 3958810