Re: Re: Lifestyle and Lifespan

[Guest guest]

Hi Arturo,

Thanks for your response.

I want to clarify... I am agreeing that Yoga can be beneficial. That is

not my point.

But personally, I " cringe " when I hear someone say " yoga " is

beneficial.

But, don't worry cause I also " cringe " when I hear other generic

statements like , " carbs " are bad or " fat " is good or " high carb " is

bad. These are all just way to generic of a term(s). I posted the

study here a way back where they compared 2 different diets that both

had 55% carb, 30% fat, and 15% protein, yet because their fine details

were different, they produced significantly different results.

So, do you agree with the point I am trying to make that the term " Yoga "

in general is too generic with too many meanings to really be used the

way it is being used?

When someone says " Yoga " Is beneficial, what are they talking about?

It is is the same with exercise. Not all exercise is the same and not

all exercise has the same benefit and some can be harmful. We have to be

specific. How much aerobic exercise and of what type is beneficial?

How much resistance and what type?

Same with food. Not all food is good and some can have negative

consequences. We have to be specific. Are all carb good, or all carbs

bad? Is all fat good or all fat bad? How much essential fat do we need

and what is the best source.

These are the fine points we usually discuss here.

So, is all Yoga good? And what exactly do you mean when you say Yoga?

All I am saying, and my main point, is that it is way to generic of a

term to use loosely.

As you know, some postures can be detrimental and contraindicated for

some people. (See below)

Also, there have been many studies done on Yoga that are of good quality.

If you type in Yoga in PubMed, you get 1153 results. Many of them

well done studies here in the USA.

I am not dismissing Yoga, I am only saying we have to put the same " fine

tooth comb " to this modality as we do to everything else.

Thanks

Jeff

Ophthalmic Surg Lasers Imaging. 2008 Jul-Aug;39(4):339-40.Progressive

optic neuropathy in congenital glaucoma associated with the Sirsasana

yoga posture.

The authors describe a case of progressive optic neuropathy in a patient

with congenital glaucoma who had routinely practiced the Sirsasana

(headstand) yoga posture for several years. Ophthalmic examination

included best-corrected visual acuity, anterior segment examination,

indirect ophthalmoscopy, ultrasound pachymetry for central corneal

thickness, and intraocular pressure before, during, and after

maintaining the Sirsasana posture for 5 minutes. Intraocular pressure

increased significantly during the Sirsasana posture. Transient

elevation in intraocular pressure during yoga exercises may lead to

progressive glaucomatous optic neuropathy, especially in susceptible

patients with congenital glaucoma.

PMID: 18717444

Arturo Veve wrote:

>

> Re: Lifestyle and Lifespan

> Posted by: " jnovickrd " jnovickrd@...

> <mailto:jnovickrd%40> jnovickrd

> Sat Sep 6, 2008 9:48 am (PDT)

>

> Hi Rodney

>

> Thanks. Sounds like we are in agreement.

>

> I do not deny the potential benefits, it is just that the word " yoga "

> can mean so many different things and so many different forms of

> exercise from very low intensity to very high intensity. Here in

> the USA, what many consider " yoga " to be is actually only one " branch "

> of yoga, known as Hatha Yoga. And as CRON is about " teasing " out the

> finer details in these broader issues, we have to apply the same

> reasoning in all areas, including one such as this.

>

> BTW, if you have not looked at the actual article, you may want to

> look at it and specifically at Table 2 & 3 on the frequency and amount

> of exercise in this study. The group with the highest level of

> exercise did not have the best outcome in either the survivors or the

> non-survivors. I would cut and paste it here but am on my smartphone

> and cant do it from there. I guess it is not so smart.

>

> Regards

> Jeff

> ------------------

> Hi Jeff, Siddhananda, Rodney

> I always cringe at statement that infer that we don't have medical

> benefits to prove that yoga is beneficial. With respect to yoga

> we have to use common sense. I practice ashtanga which is a form

> of hatha yoga, one which appears to be aerobic in nature because

> of its continuous flow. Most dedicated ashtangis practice one

> form or other of caloric restriction - it's necessary or you

> won't be able to bind in most poses. I can point to studies

> done on its benefits, but most of the medical studies have been

> done in India. I have links posted in my blog to articles in the web,

> organized by a nursing group at the bottom of the side bar of

> my blog. The studies done in the US, many of which have been

> referred to here, are not of the type done for studies

> reported in PubMed, with controlled sample groups. So those

> reports won't satisfy the scientific minds in this group. So

> what I'm saying, until all of the wealthy celebrities doing yoga

> in the US, or the government starts funding medical studies,

> we won't have the types of medical studies you would prefer

> to demonstrate the health benefits of yoga. That does not

> preclude that we can arrive at the conclusions of the benefits

> of yoga based on our own anecdotal experience and on non medical

> observations reported in the media. By the way, the heads of

> ashtanga yoga and of Iyengar hatha yoga are in their 90s and still

> active.

> Cheers,

> Arturo

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's my experience that flexibility is almost as important as strength for quality of life.

Limited range of motion creeps in with out a regimented flexibility program.

Strength diminishes without a strength training program.

The yoga for flexibility at the health clubs around the US are beneficial.

I could get by with just activities of daily living when I was young .

Now that I'm approaching 70, this body requires a lot of work to feel good.

From: Rodney <perspect1111@...>Subject: [ ] Re: Lifestyle and Lifespan Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 8:09 AM

Thanks, Arturo:

Perhaps I should clarify/correct what I should have said about yoga.

It is clear that CRON substantially extends average and maximum lifespan in animals. I have never seen any serious studies showing those benefits for yoga. Nor for a benefit for the diseases of aging from which so many people in 'civilization' suffer (CVD and cancer), and which usually dramatically reduce 'health span' as well as lifespan. But the fact I haven't seen such studies does not mean they do not exist.

But what I should have added is that the benefits of yoga may very well be complementary to those of CRON.

I posted about the Activities of Daily Living (ADL) issue a few days ago. It seems to me this is a quite separate issue from lifespan. While CRON will clearly help a great deal with ADL as well as lifespan, I speculate that yoga+CRON may permit maintenance of ADL performance longer than CRON alone.

This is the 'benefits from yoga' that I had mentioned in the first paragraph of that post of mine.

However I do not do physical yoga. YET (!) But I do meditate. And I am quite open-minded about the possibility that I may find myself doing yoga in the future.

Hope this clarifies my thoughts about yoga. If I saw the right papers they might 'push me over the edge' into starting yoga.

Rodney.

>> Re: Lifestyle and Lifespan> Posted by: "jnovickrd" jnovickrd@.. . jnovickrd> Sat Sep 6, 2008 9:48 am (PDT)> > Hi Rodney> > Thanks. Sounds like we are in agreement. > > I do not deny the potential benefits, it is just that the word "yoga"> can mean so many different things and so many different forms of> exercise from very low intensity to very high intensity. Here in> the USA, what many consider "yoga" to be is actually only one "branch"> of yoga, known as Hatha Yoga. And as CRON is about "teasing" out the> finer details in these broader issues, we have to apply the same> reasoning in all areas, including one such as this. > > BTW, if you have not looked at the actual article, you may want to> look at it and specifically at Table 2 & 3

on the frequency and amount> of exercise in this study. The group with the highest level of> exercise did not have the best outcome in either the survivors or the> non-survivors. I would cut and paste it here but am on my smartphone> and cant do it from there. I guess it is not so smart. > > Regards> Jeff> ------------ ------> Hi Jeff, Siddhananda, Rodney> I always cringe at statement that infer that we don't have medical> benefits to prove that yoga is beneficial. With respect to yoga > we have to use common sense. I practice ashtanga which is a form > of hatha yoga, one which appears to be aerobic in nature because > of its continuous flow. Most dedicated ashtangis practice one > form or other of caloric restriction - it's necessary or you > won't be able to bind in most poses. I can point to studies> done on its benefits, but most of

the medical studies have been> done in India. I have links posted in my blog to ar! ticles i n the web, > organized by a nursing group at the bottom of the side bar of> my blog. The studies done in the US, many of which have been> referred to here, are not of the type done for studies > reported in PubMed, with controlled sample groups. So those> reports won't satisfy the scientific minds in this group. So> what I'm saying, until all of the wealthy celebrities doing yoga> in the US, or the government starts funding medical studies, > we won't have the types of medical studies you would prefer > to demonstrate the health benefits of yoga. That does not > preclude that we can arrive at the conclusions of the benefits> of yoga based on our own anecdotal experience and on non medical > observations reported in the media. By the way, the heads of > ashtanga yoga

and of Iyengar hatha yoga are in their 90s and still> active.> Cheers,> Arturo>

[Guest guest]

Ann,I totally agree with you. Having done yoga with 2 private instructors for the last 5 years; anusara and power yoga, and having just reached 70, I can tell you that the three most important factors I have seen are (1) balance, (2) focus and (3) flexibility.Just some simple observations of older people will show gait changes, loss of balance, and limited flexibility. Yoga has helped me will all of those and I am trying hard to carry those three elements into all aspects of my life. I am still overweight, which after a recent family reunion, I realized certainly has a genetic component, but restricting calories is working well for me and the weight is very slowly coming off. The study of longevity, ideal weight, quality of life and health is still very much in its infancy. While I am in the medical profession, I am not a researcher, but am a keen observer of people and believe ultimately a combination of factors, not the least of which is genetics, but includes food, exercise and a clearer understanding of physiology will lead us in the right direction.One last comment on my part... I will not give any time or credence to anyone selling products for longevity or weight loss. I will save my money for private yoga lessons and a good meal with friends. I enjoy the fact that this board is "clean" from that perspective.MJMOn Sep 7, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Ann wrote:It's my experience that flexibility is almost as important as strength for quality of life. Limited range of motion creeps in with out a regimented flexibility program. Strength diminishes without a strength training program. The yoga for flexibility at the health clubs around the US are beneficial. I could get by with just activities of daily living when I was young .Now that I'm approaching 70, this body requires a lot of work to feel good. From: Rodney <perspect1111 >Subject: [ ] Re: Lifestyle and Lifespan Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 8:09 AMThanks, Arturo:Perhaps I should clarify/correct what I should have said about yoga.It is clear that CRON substantially extends average and maximum lifespan in animals. I have never seen any serious studies showing those benefits for yoga. Nor for a benefit for the diseases of aging from which so many people in 'civilization' suffer (CVD and cancer), and which usually dramatically reduce 'health span' as well as lifespan. But the fact I haven't seen such studies does not mean they do not exist.But what I should have added is that the benefits of yoga may very well be complementary to those of CRON.I posted about the Activities of Daily Living (ADL) issue a few days ago. It seems to me this is a quite separate issue from lifespan. While CRON will clearly help a great deal with ADL as well as lifespan, I speculate that yoga+CRON may permit maintenance of ADL performance longer than CRON alone.This is the 'benefits from yoga' that I had mentioned in the first paragraph of that post of mine.However I do not do physical yoga. YET (!) But I do meditate. And I am quite open-minded about the possibility that I may find myself doing yoga in the future.Hope this clarifies my thoughts about yoga. If I saw the right papers they might 'push me over the edge' into starting yoga.Rodney.>> Re: Lifestyle and Lifespan> Posted by: "jnovickrd" jnovickrd@.. . jnovickrd> Sat Sep 6, 2008 9:48 am (PDT)> > Hi Rodney> > Thanks. Sounds like we are in agreement. > > I do not deny the potential benefits, it is just that the word "yoga"> can mean so many different things and so many different forms of> exercise from very low intensity to very high intensity. Here in> the USA, what many consider "yoga" to be is actually only one "branch"> of yoga, known as Hatha Yoga. And as CRON is about "teasing" out the> finer details in these broader issues, we have to apply the same> reasoning in all areas, including one such as this. > > BTW, if you have not looked at the actual article, you may want to> look at it and specifically at Table 2 & 3 on the frequency and amount> of exercise in this study. The group with the highest level of> exercise did not have the best outcome in either the survivors or the> non-survivors. I would cut and paste it here but am on my smartphone> and cant do it from there. I guess it is not so smart. > > Regards> Jeff> ------------ ------> Hi Jeff, Siddhananda, Rodney> I always cringe at statement that infer that we don't have medical> benefits to prove that yoga is beneficial. With respect to yoga > we have to use common sense. I practice ashtanga which is a form > of hatha yoga, one which appears to be aerobic in nature because > of its continuous flow. Most dedicated ashtangis practice one > form or other of caloric restriction - it's necessary or you > won't be able to bind in most poses. I can point to studies> done on its benefits, but most of the medical studies have been> done in India. I have links posted in my blog to ar! ticles i n the web, > organized by a nursing group at the bottom of the side bar of> my blog. The studies done in the US, many of which have been> referred to here, are not of the type done for studies > reported in PubMed, with controlled sample groups. So those> reports won't satisfy the scientific minds in this group. So> what I'm saying, until all of the wealthy celebrities doing yoga> in the US, or the government starts funding medical studies, > we won't have the types of medical studies you would prefer > to demonstrate the health benefits of yoga. That does not > preclude that we can arrive at the conclusions of the benefits> of yoga based on our own anecdotal experience and on non medical > observations reported in the media. By the way, the heads of > ashtanga yoga and of Iyengar hatha yoga are in their 90s and still> active.> Cheers,> Arturo>