Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 > > >I think if Dr Price had studied serious (as opposed to trendy!) > >practitioners of yoga he would also have found that their health is > >perfect, " despite " vegetarian diet. > Serious vegetarians in northern India have a very short life span. Their omega-6 intake must be very high. Most likely they are not in a position to fight off atherosclerosis with antioxidant supplements. Duncan Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Not all Indians practice yoga! I specifically mentioned practitioners. And remember that Indians eat loads of white rice, vegetaible oils, and al sorts of bad things. You can't put everything down to not eating meat, it's for more complex than that. I for knw know of several old, old old vehetarians. ANd I am going to be old as well, i can tell. I've always been told I appear 10 years younger than I am. Shatron M. Re: Re: vegetarianism > > >I think if Dr Price had studied serious (as opposed to trendy!) > >practitioners of yoga he would also have found that their health is > >perfect, " despite " vegetarian diet. > Serious vegetarians in northern India have a very short life span. Their omega-6 intake must be very high. Most likely they are not in a position to fight off atherosclerosis with antioxidant supplements. Duncan Crow ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 " I think we're talking about people having a healthy sex drive, i.e. *energy*. Whether they choose to conserve/subvert that flow to fuel a pursuit of union with the Creator is their business, but the source still needs to be sufficient, and well-nourished by earthly sustenance. " Yes, I did in a later post try to correct my original mis-use of the term " low sex-drive " . It isn;'t that at all. " No need to mistake them for being prim. " After a few years of sexual abstinence for the purpose of Yoga (ie, channeling that energy towards their Creator, as you say), these peole develop a charisma and radiance that makes them powerhouses of attraction. Men like this are like young gods; young women flock to them and fall over themselves to offer their " services " - not realising that the very power of their attraction lies is their abstinence. When they give in to temptation they lose that attraction and become as ordinary mortals. That's why many of these new-age self-styled " gurus " usually have some kind of sexual scandal surrounding them. If they uphold their abstinence they are anything other than emasculated wimps. The very opposite. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Ants and fruit flies. The utility is easy quick disposal.-- Aalt Pater From: bill4cr <bill4cr@...>Subject: [ ] Re: vegetarianism Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 12:30 PM what insects do you eat?i ask because i question the utility or purpose of your post otherthan curiosity?> > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@.. .>> Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism> "support group" < >> Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM> > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty,or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial,healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one wayor the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible,people will eat it. > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com>> Reply-< >> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500> < >> Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism> > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit> himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So> maybe there isn't as much "natural" vegetarianism around as we are> led to believe.> > I am not sure what you mean by "led to believe" about "natural" > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian.> > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, > including bugs, insects, etc. > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is aform > of luxury that was not always available.> > Thanks> Jeff> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 My original point about societies' eating insects was that perhaps vegetarians are missing something in their diets because there's a reason those societies eat insects. Maybe we naturally eat them because our bodies need animal protein. Maybe our scientists haven't found all the nutrients there are that the body needs and there are yet undiscovered nutrients in animals that plants do not provide. In "How to Survive in the Woods" by Bradford Angier, he explains how he developed sugar cravings while he was in the bush and was told by local native people that he needed to eat the innards of animals, as that's what he really was craving. He followed their advice and found they were right. They also taught him that he mustn't eat rabbit unless he eats fat with it (maggots filled the bill here, they suggested) as rabbits have no fat and he would starve sooner if he ate them without the maggots than if he ate nothing. Just an aside... From: bill4cr <bill4cr (DOT) com>Subject: [ ] Re: vegetarianism Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 12:30 PM what insects do you eat?i ask because i question the utility or purpose of your post otherthan curiosity?> > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@.. .>> Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism> "support group" < >> Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM> > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty,or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial,healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one wayor the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible,people will eat it. > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com>> Reply-< >> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500> < >> Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism> > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit> himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So> maybe there isn't as much "natural" vegetarianism around as we are> led to believe.> > I am not sure what you mean by "led to believe" about "natural" > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian.> > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, > including bugs, insects, etc. > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is aform > of luxury that was not always available.> > Thanks> Jeff> > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Obviously, people survive quite well on vegetarian diets and on meat diets as well. We’re going for optimum health here though. There’s still debate/discussion on what that is. As Rodney often says: We each have to decide what that is for ourselves. I still eat very occasional, (that is rarely) meat – perhaps once every couple of months, and then in small quatities. But I eat fish often. I don’t purposely eat insects, but as Tony pointed out, we’re probably all passively ingesting some insect parts since they are ubiquitous and in our food whether we like it or not. Seafood, btw is a fairly close relative of insects. YMMV. From: bill4cr <bill4cr@...> Reply-< > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:19:22 -0000 < > Subject: [ ] Re: vegetarianism Maybe? But i'm not going to start eating insects based on pure spec As far as animal products are concerned maybe there's smthg in them that we need. We DO know that's there smthg in them that is bad.. saturated fat and cholesterol. That's why we limit their consumption. > > > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@ .> > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > " support group " < > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, > or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, > healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way > or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, > people will eat it. > > > > > > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > > Reply-< > > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > > < > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > > led to believe. > > > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the > > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by > > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, > > including bugs, insects, etc. > > > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a > form > > of luxury that was not always available. > > > > Thanks > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I eat mostly chicken and other poultry when I do eat meat. Including both my “meat” eating and my fish eating, perhaps I am getting more “meat” (including fish) than just rarely. Here are my reasons: 1. it’s delicious (IMHO). 2. It has B12 – difficult to find in a veggie diet. 3. Fish has many many benefits (as outlined in our posts and in our files) 4. And who knows what we haven’t found about what’s in it that may be “good” for you. I believe in a well-rounded diet (at least until evidence changes my mind – see # 5 below). At one point in our history, there was a finding that chicken bones had a life prolonging substance in thm (but as with resveratrol, you had to eat TONS to get the benefit). 5. As our files state, health conscious meat eaters live just as long as vegans or vegetarians. 6. Meat/Fish is filling. But each to his/her own. And I am conscious of the methionine theory and eat much less meat/fish than the average Joe. Here’s a story: strictly anecdotal: my husband’s uncle who is 98 and still on his own, with full mental faculties and absolutely no assistance from others (except being driven to the store – he gave up driving a few months ago), eats chicken for dinner just about every night. He cooks it himself – has done so for almost all his adult life. From: bill4cr <bill4cr@...> Reply-< > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:54:05 -0000 < > Subject: [ ] Re: vegetarianism This is interesting.. why do you eat meat at all? If there is smthg in meat that is necessary for health eating " every few months " is not a good bet that you're getting enough of whatever it may be. > > > > > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@ .> > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > " support group " < > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, > > or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, > > healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way > > or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, > > people will eat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > > > Reply-< > > > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > > > < > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > > > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > > > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > > > led to believe. > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > > > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including > the > > > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were > vegetarian by > > > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > > > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > > > > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the > environment, > > > including bugs, insects, etc. > > > > > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > > > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a > > form > > > of luxury that was not always available. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Also anecdotal, I was a vegetarian for 23 years, then persuaded myself that reintroducing fish (with their omega-3s) into my diet made sense, despite my by-then-longstanding changed tastes. Four years later, I added fowl back in, for the same reasons Francesca outlined below. In my longer-than-most-people's experience with vegetarianism, it was for me, at least, more of a prideful head-trip than a constructive contribution to my health--I thought mightily well of myself on both the " spiritual " and health fronts because of my vegetarianism--but of course that may have only been the case for me. My blood stats are better than they used to be when I was a vegetarian, but certainly CR figures into that as well. And certainly, Big Macs as a staple are unlikely to be useful. Maco At 08:23 AM 02/06/2009, you wrote: I eat mostly chicken and other poultry when I do eat meat. Including both my “meat” eating and my fish eating, perhaps I am getting more “meat” (including fish) than just rarely. Here are my reasons: 1. it’s delicious (IMHO). 2. It has B12 – difficult to find in a veggie diet. 3. Fish has many many benefits (as outlined in our posts and in our files) 4. And who knows what we haven’t found about what’s in it that may be “good” for you. I believe in a well-rounded diet (at least until evidence changes my mind – see # 5 below). At one point in our history, there was a finding that chicken bones had a life prolonging substance in thm (but as with resveratrol, you had to eat TONS to get the benefit). 5. As our files state, health conscious meat eaters live just as long as vegans or vegetarians. 6. Meat/Fish is filling. But each to his/her own. And I am conscious of the methionine theory and eat much less meat/fish than the average Joe. Here’s a story: strictly anecdotal: my husband’s uncle who is 98 and still on his own, with full mental faculties and absolutely no assistance from others (except being driven to the store – he gave up driving a few months ago), eats chicken for dinner just about every night. He cooks it himself – has done so for almost all his adult life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 There may be a vegetarian issue yet, in an idea by Dr Ajit Varki, MD, Co-director UCSD/ Salk Center, expressing a difference in sialic acid between chimps and humans. The difference is related to our capacity for certain diseases that other animals are immune to. The different form of sialic acid occurs in our food supply, ie, meats, milk. The lecture was on UCTV, Primate Evolution an Human Disease, next aired at 8 AM cst tomorrow. Dish 9412. I don't find his lecture on the inet, yet. but: http://cmm.ucsd.edu/Lab_Pages/varki/varkilab/index4.htm a pdf: http://cmm.ucsd.edu/varki/varkilab/B108.pdf Regards Re: [ ] Re: vegetarianism Also anecdotal, I was a vegetarian for 23 years, then persuaded myself that reintroducing fish (with their omega-3s) into my diet made sense, despite my by-then-longstanding changed tastes. Four years later, I added fowl back in, for the same reasons Francesca outlined below. In my longer-than-most-people's experience with vegetarianism, it was for me, at least, more of a prideful head-trip than a constructive contribution to my health--I thought mightily well of myself on both the " spiritual " and health fronts because of my vegetarianism--but of course that may have only been the case for me. My blood stats are better than they used to be when I was a vegetarian, but certainly CR figures into that as well. And certainly, Big Macs as a staple are unlikely to be useful. Maco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 You asked me a question originally: “why do you eat meat at all?” and I gave an honest answer to the question. Some of my reasons as stated below include health related issues ( B-12; - and the possibility that there IS something in meat we might need), my belief that occasional meat eating is not detrimental to health (health conscious meat eaters live as long as vegetarians, and btw Okinawans eat meat on occasion also), and a couple of frivolous reasons (it tastes good). For mental health reasons I don’t want to get caught up in absolutes or obsessions about diet. I rarely eat meat other than poultry, but I will sometimes taste red meat – especially if someone I am with is eating it. Just as I will “taste” rich desserts so I won’t feel I’m being denied a particular delicacy. Not because I think such rich foods are good for me. Most of the time that taste will convince me that I’m not missing a thing. Even Dr Walford went off his diet on occasion or for social reasons. Not sure why my answer wasn’t clear. There have been a couple of posters since (Maco for one) who seem to agree with me and understand my reasoning. But YMMV – each to his own. We’re all individuals here. From: bill4cr <bill4cr@...> Reply-< > Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:30:26 -0000 < > Subject: [ ] Re: vegetarianism what in Fish do you think you are missing out so you eat mostly chicken? This list is about PROVABLE choice, evidence to back our posts and choices. So, what in CHICKEN is so vital to your health and ours? > > > > > > > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@ .> > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > " support group " < > > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, > > > or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, > > > healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way > > > or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, > > > people will eat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > > > > Reply-< > > > > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > > > > < > > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > > > > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > > > > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > > > > led to believe. > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > > > > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including > > the > > > > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were > > vegetarian by > > > > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > > > > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > > > > > > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the > > environment, > > > > including bugs, insects, etc. > > > > > > > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > > > > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a > > > form > > > > of luxury that was not always available. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > > Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 At 10:15 AM 02/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Maco, > >I was impressed and intrigued by your post. Would you share with the >group details of what components of your blood work improved after >adding fish and fowl to your diet? Thank you. > >Ed I can't rightly parse what components are independently attributable to weight loss, to CR, or to any dietary modifications, but my most recent HDL/LDL/TC numbers were the highest/lowest/lowest I've had them. Maco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Hi Pamela, Don't worry, the debate was quite revealing in many ways. Not your fault, bless you. Sally xx Thanks everyone for your suggestions - have taken note of all! didnt mean to spark a debate on vegetarianism itself, which I think has to be a matter of personal choice. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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