Guest guest Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are led to believe. I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, including bugs, insects, etc. Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a form of luxury that was not always available. Thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don’t have an opinion one way or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it’s edible, people will eat it. From: Novick <jnovickrd@...> Reply-< > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 < > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are led to believe. I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, including bugs, insects, etc. Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a form of luxury that was not always available. Thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi All, Insects actually sound pretty nutritious. The pdf is availed of the paper: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/95016302/abstract-- Aalt Pater From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism"support group" < >Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, people will eat it. From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com>Reply-< >Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500< >Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limithimself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! Somaybe there isn't as much "natural" vegetarianism around as we areled to believe.I am not sure what you mean by "led to believe" about "natural" vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian.Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, including bugs, insects, etc. Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a form of luxury that was not always available.ThanksJeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 what insects do you eat? i ask because i question the utility or purpose of your post other than curiosity? > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...> > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > " support group " < > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, people will eat it. > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > Reply-< > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > < > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > led to believe. > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, > including bugs, insects, etc. > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a form > of luxury that was not always available. > > Thanks > Jeff > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 > > what insects do you eat? > Actually, there is no such thing as a vegan diet. Most natural vegetable products have some insects, insect parts, or insect larvae. Many years ago, I watched a guest engaged in a lively conversation bite into a large strawberry. As she was chewing half of it, I noticed a worm in the second half. I was about to warn her about it, but before I could say anything, she put the second half in her mouth and ate it. Almost immediately, she said with great delight that these were the tastiest strawberries that she had had. The FDA says that a few insect parts won't harm you. The link below states that apple butter is OK to eat as long as it has less than 4 rodent hairs per 100 grams, or less than 5 or more whole or equivalent insects (not counting mites, aphids, thrips, or scale insects) per 100 grams. You see, aphids don't even count. The Food Defect Action Levels Levels of natural or unavoidable defects in foods that present no health hazards for humans. http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dalbook.html Tony http://www.scientificpsychic.com/alpha/food/recipes.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Maybe? But i'm not going to start eating insects based on pure spec As far as animal products are concerned maybe there's smthg in them that we need. We DO know that's there smthg in them that is bad.. saturated fat and cholesterol. That's why we limit their consumption. > > > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@ .> > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > " support group " < > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, > or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, > healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way > or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, > people will eat it. > > > > > > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > > Reply-< > > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > > < > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > > led to believe. > > > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including the > > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were vegetarian by > > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the environment, > > including bugs, insects, etc. > > > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a > form > > of luxury that was not always available. > > > > Thanks > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 This is interesting.. why do you eat meat at all? If there is smthg in meat that is necessary for health eating " every few months " is not a good bet that you're getting enough of whatever it may be. > > > > > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@ .> > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > " support group " < > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, > > or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, > > healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way > > or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, > > people will eat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > > > Reply-< > > > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > > > < > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > > > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > > > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > > > led to believe. > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > > > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including > the > > > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were > vegetarian by > > > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > > > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > > > > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the > environment, > > > including bugs, insects, etc. > > > > > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > > > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a > > form > > > of luxury that was not always available. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi Maco, I was impressed and intrigued by your post. Would you share with the group details of what components of your blood work improved after adding fish and fowl to your diet? Thank you. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 what in Fish do you think you are missing out so you eat mostly chicken? This list is about PROVABLE choice, evidence to back our posts and choices. So, what in CHICKEN is so vital to your health and ours? > > > > > > > > From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@ .> > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > " support group " < > > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 5:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because something is either plentiful (insects) or tasty, > > > or culturally acceptable, does not necessarily mean it is beneficial, > > > healthy, or conducive to longer life. I don¢t have an opinion one way > > > or the other about insects, just that as jeff says, if it¢s edible, > > > people will eat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Novick <jnovickrd (DOT) com> > > > > Reply-< > > > > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 > > > > < > > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] vegetarianism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>It makes sense if one considers a hungry person. He won't limit > > > > himself to stuff he can grow because darn it, he needs to eat! So > > > > maybe there isn't as much " natural " vegetarianism around as we are > > > > led to believe. > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by " led to believe " about " natural " > > > > vegetarianism, but I don't think there are many people, including > > the > > > > vegetarians themselves, who believe that humans are/were > > vegetarian by > > > > nature. The human digestive system is omnivorous and there are no > > > > known vegan populations, let along pure vegetarian. > > > > > > > > Humans have always consumed whatever was available in the > > environment, > > > > including bugs, insects, etc. > > > > > > > > Today, many have the luxury of choosing to be a vegetarian based on > > > > philosophical, religious, spiritual or health reasons. And it is a > > > form > > > > of luxury that was not always available. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > > Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Below is an excerpt from an NIH fact sheet. Some foods are fortified with B12, as they mention, and some physicians give B12 shots to the elderly, I prefer to get my vitamins from food as we have often discussed here. I feel nature's method of nutrient delivery is best when possible: What foods provide vitamin B12? Vitamin B12 is naturally found in foods that come from animals, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products. Fortified breakfast cereals are a particularly valuable source of vitamin B12 for vegetarians See: http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12.asp for more info. Hi Francesca, I am also on plant based diet most of the time. But I also eat some meat on social occasions. Is it true that B12 can only be found in meat? If possible, please advise me. Many thanks and best regards, New Sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Hi Pamela, I have been veggie since I was 8 years old & will be 40 years old in a few weeks (eek!). I was always very, fit & active (sky-diving etc!) until 9 years ago after suffering Epstein barr Virus. I am happy to stick with my veggie diet as I feel I get enough protein and lots of goodness from the veggies. I am no expert on tryptophan but I just googled " vegetarian sources tryptophan " which listed quite a few articles about veggie scources of tryptophan such as this: http://gottryptophan.com/article-tryptophan.html It lists plant sources of tryptophan as: " Nuts: Almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, filberts, peanuts and peanut butter, pistachios .. Seeds: poppy, pumpkin, sesame, sunflower .. Tofu, tempeh, and cooked soybeans .. Beans: especially lima ; red kidney, navy, pinto, and black beans .. Lentils and split peas .. Wheat germ .. Brewer's yeast " Obviously some of the above such as tofu & soy beans are not recommended for people with low thyroid but I am just listing examples from their website. Do you eat enough protein? I eat lots of homemade dishes with lentils, beans & pulses as they contain plenty of protein. Good luck in your choice, Take care, x > Does anyone else have any info, thoughts, advice etc? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Hi Pamela: In my opinion people do need a bit of meat, the body uses it for good. I used to be a Veggie too, but I now include a turkey sandwich a couple times a week and a couple scrambled eggs. The adrenals need the fatty bits from meat to help them run properly so whenever I make a pot of soup, I throw in a square of salt pork. You won't catch me eating a hamburger at Mac's or sitting down to a steak dinner, but I feel it is important to get meat a few times a week. Vegetarians are notorious for being low in Vitamin B-12 and the other Bs as well. Some B-12 levels are so low, I can't believe they're walking around at all. This book is also very interesting if you haven't already read it. You may be able to find it at a yard sale or a used book store for just pennies: http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Right-Your-Type-Individualized/dp/039914255X/ref=sr_1_\ 1?s=books & ie=UTF8 & qid=1311791302 & sr=1-1 Cheers, JOT > I have been considering eating some meat for some time - partly because I have seen quite a lot of info re the need for tryptophan, but also because I have started to feel more and more drawn to eating meat and I firmly believe that your body tells you what it needs. > > Also noted some info on this site re B12 which is often lacking in veggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 >> I have been considering eating some meat for some time - partly because I have seen quite a lot of info re the need for tryptophan can't you just take 5-htp? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-Hydroxytryptophan it's made from a bean, you can get it from holland and barratt or viridian do a trytophan capsule: http://www.viridian-nutrition.com/shop/L-Tryptophan-220mg-P492.aspx have you considered whether you have low stomach acid (you can take HCL for this, google it) or low digestive enzymes (again treatable, mandimart.co.uk sell good enzymes)? http://www.thefooddoctor.com/Bloating-Ahealth_fdw_bloat/ you may need b12, have you tested it? solgar do a good sublingual cherry flavoured tablet can you eat eggs or whey protein? at least no animals were directly sacrificed for those (though i'm aware of the dairy and egg industry and how it operates). there's also casein, but i for one am very intolerant to that. i believe dr broda o barnes thought that too much protein would lower metabolism, but i guess that may not be a problem for you if you're not already getting enough protein. http://www.xylzw.com/tag/broda-barnes/ " …it has been clearly established that a high protein diet lowers the metabolic rate, [therefore] symptoms of hypothyroidism will be aggravated… Hypoglycemia may be controlled on the high protein diet, but the other symptoms of thyroid deficiency which usually accompany hypoglycemia are aggravated. " I agree, and it makes sense on some level that protein would lower metabolism. For starters, protein, calorie for calorie, is more satiating. Therefore, you eat less food – not good for the metabolism of someone in a functional state of starvation. Secondly, consuming EXCESS protein beyond what your body uses (and your body uses very little for muscle-building if you are not eating very many carbohydrates – the Taxi for getting dietary protein into muscle cells), forces the excess protein to be burned as energy (protein oxidation). Uh oh, you need a rise in adrenal hormones like cortisol to use protein as fuel, which are antagonistic to the thyroid, increase insulin resistance, etc. " > > I have been considering eating some meat for some time - partly because I have seen quite a lot of info re the need for tryptophan, but also because I have started to feel more and more drawn to eating meat and I firmly believe that your body tells you what it needs. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hi Pamela, I think comments are excellent. I too have been a vegetarian all of my life, I have never eaten meat, well not without my mother forcing it down my throat. So I am a natural vegetarian, I have no moral problems with meat eating although I think we are naturally vegetarians and should eat much less meat. Interesing I am also A negative blood group; the natural vegetarian according to oh golly cant remember his name! oops. My question would be you mention Tryptophan, why are you concerned about getting tryptophan through eating meat? B12 is the only thing you cant really get much of through eating a vegetarian diet unless you eat animal protein other than flesh. There is much science out there suggesting vegetarian diet is more healthy for humans than meat eating appears to be. HOWEVER, saying that if you are feeling you need meat and you are suggesting eating it two or three times weekly that is for you to decide. Turkey has the most tryptophan more than any other meat. I believe we are naturally vegetarians, but that maybe we would have in our primitive state eaten meat had we fallen over some dead carcass and other food was scarce. Further I think we possibly ate more fish as it is possible for primitive man to catch fish relatively easily and to access the flesh without needed to struggle with getting into the carcas. Vitamin B12 is needed in minute amounts. Further we store it for 5-7 years. Therefore you can see there was no need for us to eat much meat and that is why we are not physically equipped so to do. Our bowels particularly struggle with digesting meat hence the increased levels of bowel cancer in meat eaters. We hypoT's have even greater problems with this. So my suggestion would be maybe eat fish once a week or fortnightly and meat occasionally. Remember too that meat is the big cause of heart disease and particularly for us hypoT's. The protein in meat is broken down with HYDROCHLORIC ACID of which we hypoT's have little so ensure you supplement with it from Biovea £9 for 180 pills take WITH food. So its brokendown into amino acids and one of the amonio acids is METHIONINE this is further brokendown into HOMOCYSTEINE. now you are likely to recognise this word as it is known to cause heart diesease. Low levels are fine for us but high levels are not. Blood homocysteine levels are known to be a very strong indicator for heart disease. The homocysteine will cause a 'roughing up' of the silky smooth arterial lining and this inturn stimulates an inflammatory response to repair the damage, cholesterol and calcium are a part of this repair process along with platelets and a myriad of sticky and other 'substances'. The repair leaves behind a raised area which can be the cause of arterial lumen occlusion. On occasions the repair behaves like a boil and bursts its contents into the blood stream, this has the effect of causing a clot as the foreign material is immediately engulfed again by macrophages and so on. This clot may then get 'stuck' in another area where a narrowing of the artery lumen has occurred. If this happens to be a big clot in a larger artery of the heart then the consequence is a heart attack. This can happen in the brain and ends as a stroke, or the lungs as a pulmonary embolus or the legs as Deep Vein Thrombosis and so on. Hypothyroids tend to have a higher level of inflammation around the body due to the nature of our disorder and this can be seen with the arthritic sweelings we experience. So a nother good test to have done is C-Reactive protein. This measures the levels of chronic inflammation around the body and is the second blood test which is a very strong indicator of heart disease. Please note cholesterol levels are not a strong indicator of heart disease. They are however a strong indicator of hypothyroidism. In hypothyroidism we have a problem with rising serum cholesterole levels as a consequence of low thyroid hormone and particularly T3 levels. T3 breaksdown cholesterol and increases the number of LDL receptors, thus increasing the rate of lipolysis. When low levels of thyroid hormone are available you can see the levels of circulating cholesterol is increased as a consequence. It is likely you have done yourself a favour being vegetarian for this time, however, if you intend to revert back to being a carnivor then I suggest you consider the issues above and do it gently. Enjoy and be healthy, Sally xx > > > Does anyone else have any info, thoughts, advice etc? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think we are naturally vegetarians and should eat much less meat. NO WE ARE NOT!! If we were meant to be vegetarian we would have 11feet longer intestines and possible another stomach. > There is much science out there suggesting vegetarian diet is more healthy for humans than meat eating appears to be. NO THERE ISN'T! There is much more evidence that proves a balanced omnivorous diet is better than anything else. > I believe we are naturally vegetarians, but that maybe we would have in our primitive state eaten meat had we fallen over some dead carcass and other food was scarce. NO THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! Pre-historic people ate a diet of 98% meat thats what the term hunter / gatherer meant. They never had any problems killing, butchering and eating meat. Further I think we possibly ate more fish as it is possible for primitive man to catch fish relatively easily and to access the flesh without needed to struggle with getting into the carcas. AGAIN NOT TRUE! 'Primitive' humand ate very little fish in their diet unless they lived on the coast. > Remember too that meat is the big cause of heart disease and particularly for us hypoT's. NOT TRUE!! > > On occasions the repair behaves like a boil and bursts its contents into the blood stream, this has the effect of causing a clot as the foreign material is immediately engulfed again by macrophages and so on. This clot may then get 'stuck' in another area where a narrowing of the artery lumen has occurred. If this happens to be a big clot in a larger artery of the heart then the consequence is a heart attack. This can happen in the brain and ends as a stroke, or the lungs as a pulmonary embolus or the legs as Deep Vein Thrombosis and so on. DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU@VE GOT THIS RUBBISH FROM!! But it is incomplete data. > > Hypothyroids tend to have a higher level of inflammation around the body due to the nature of our disorder and this can be seen with the arthritic sweelings we experience. NO, ARTHRITIS IS AN EXCUSE MADE BY A GP for not treating people with hypo properly. Please note cholesterol levels are not a strong indicator of heart disease. They are however a strong indicator of hypothyroidism. NOT ALWAYS. > > In hypothyroidism we have a problem with rising serum cholesterole levels as a consequence of low thyroid hormone and particularly T3 levels. > > > It is likely you have done yourself a favour being vegetarian for this time, however, if you intend to revert back to being a carnivor then I suggest you consider the issues above and do it gently. SEE EARLIER QUOTE.....as I said a balanced omnivorous diet is the best for humans....... Have to say that being vegetarian hasn't stopped you getting hypo has it? There is no advantage in being vegetarian or vegan, lifestyle choice doesn't really alter your chances of getting hypo, its not like diabetes in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Thanks everyone for your suggestions - have taken note of all! didnt mean to spark a debate on vegetarianism itself, which I think has to be a matter of personal choice. Thanks again > > This subject has now been referred to the chat group as it is off topic to this main group. > > So if any member wishes to discuss this subject please go to the chat group. > > Anyone who is not yet a member of the chat group I will send you another invitation, but you will have to contact me on my private address and put chat group in the subject line. lilian15@... > > If you just put a request on this group it can be easily missed because of the hundreds of messages coming in. > > Lilian > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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