Re: Book: The Long Tomorrow / discussion of Okinawans and CR

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca,

I don't think that the okinawans had an optimum nutrition. Remember that Walford

noted that mice don't live longer unless they eat a fairly optimized diet. Short

time ago somebody posted here a study saying that okinawans ate a surprisingl

small amount of fat.

I could be wrong, if so please correct me.

Yagobet

>

> I'm in the middle of reading this book which is subtitled: " How advances in

> Evolutionary Biology Can Help Us Postpone Aging " . The author is

> Rose, a researcher at the U of Cal at Irvine. I found this book at my local

> public library.

>

> On page 113 there's an interesting passage. The author discusses the

> reasons why humans on CR will not live as long as lab animals on CR. Of

> note he notices that the Okinawans only live slightly longer (He notes that

> Okinawans should be living to 140 if they were following the lab animal

> model). Okinawans only live a year or two longer than mainland Japanese,

> for example.

>

> Rodney has several times noted this about the Okinawans and questioned it on

> the board. We have never been able to figure out the answer.

>

> Rose's conclusion: although reducing calories (whether through eating or

> some as yet undiscovered pill or mechanism) is " start " to the question of

> extending life, it is not a panacea and will be only a part of a more

> complicated approach as we learn more about the complexities of aging

>

> As I finish the book, I'll post any more interesting passages.

>

> Hot fudge sundae anyone :-?

>

[Guest guest]

You are mistaken. The Okinawans are touted by Walford and other esteemed researchers, including the author of the book I cite below, as being the only full scale human “experiment” afa CRON,.

Also we posted here recently that optimum nutrition in humans may not be as important as previously thought. See Jeff’s post:

/message/27065

I did have another thought on my original post below. As I have often said: Living healthier, into old age is a worthy goal in itself and one that I aspire to. And THAT is surely what one can say about the Okinawans. Not only do they have more centenarians than anywhere else, but the Okinawan elderly are vital, healthy and active.

I’ll take it if that’s what I can get.

From: yagobet <yagobet@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:08:25 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: Book: The Long Tomorrow / discussion of Okinawans and CR

Hi Francesca,

I don't think that the okinawans had an optimum nutrition. Remember that Walford noted that mice don't live longer unless they eat a fairly optimized diet. Short time ago somebody posted here a study saying that okinawans ate a surprisingl small amount of fat.

I could be wrong, if so please correct me.

Yagobet

>

> I'm in the middle of reading this book which is subtitled: " How advances in

> Evolutionary Biology Can Help Us Postpone Aging " . The author is

> Rose, a researcher at the U of Cal at Irvine. I found this book at my local

> public library.

>

> On page 113 there's an interesting passage. The author discusses the

> reasons why humans on CR will not live as long as lab animals on CR. Of

> note he notices that the Okinawans only live slightly longer (He notes that

> Okinawans should be living to 140 if they were following the lab animal

> model). Okinawans only live a year or two longer than mainland Japanese,

> for example.

>

> Rodney has several times noted this about the Okinawans and questioned it on

> the board. We have never been able to figure out the answer.

>

> Rose's conclusion: although reducing calories (whether through eating or

> some as yet undiscovered pill or mechanism) is " start " to the question of

> extending life, it is not a panacea and will be only a part of a more

> complicated approach as we learn more about the complexities of aging

>

> As I finish the book, I'll post any more interesting passages.

>

> Hot fudge sundae anyone :-?

>

[Guest guest]

Francesca, thank you very much for the link to Jeff's post 27065. That post

supports quantitatively my assertion that okinawans didn't have optimal

nutrition. That is the likely cause of why their lifespan are not extended very

much. That 14% had symptoms of deficiencies of B vitamin is very illustrative.

I know that Walford and other researchers considered okinawans as a real life

experiment on CR. What I am saying is that okinawans were not on CRON. The ON

was missing.

Also, I don't think that the results on the okinawans should be interpreted as

saying that optimal nutrition is not that important. They show that CR alone

does not extends life very much (just like in mice and other animal models). My

conclusion is that optimal nutrition cannot be neglected.

> >

> > I'm in the middle of reading this book which is subtitled: " How advances in

> > Evolutionary Biology Can Help Us Postpone Aging " . The author is

> > Rose, a researcher at the U of Cal at Irvine. I found this book at my local

> > public library.

> >

> > On page 113 there's an interesting passage. The author discusses the

> > reasons why humans on CR will not live as long as lab animals on CR. Of

> > note he notices that the Okinawans only live slightly longer (He notes that

> > Okinawans should be living to 140 if they were following the lab animal

> > model). Okinawans only live a year or two longer than mainland Japanese,

> > for example.

> >

> > Rodney has several times noted this about the Okinawans and questioned it on

> > the board. We have never been able to figure out the answer.

> >

> > Rose's conclusion: although reducing calories (whether through eating or

> > some as yet undiscovered pill or mechanism) is " start " to the question of

> > extending life, it is not a panacea and will be only a part of a more

> > complicated approach as we learn more about the complexities of aging

> >

> > As I finish the book, I'll post any more interesting passages.

> >

> > Hot fudge sundae anyone :-?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

Of course the explanation might possibly be that the investigators in

the lab animal experiments go to great lengths to make sure that both

the ad lib and the restricted animals get their full RDAs of all

micronutrients.

As we have discussed before, the data for the okinawans show that they

have several nutrient deficiencies. The RDAs are based on a

scientific examination of how much of these nutrients organisms need to

function properly. It may be that it is the okinawans' nutrient

deficiencies that are robbing them of the life extension benefits the

full-RDA, restricted animals enjoy.

Of course we do not know that this is the answer. But it is one very

significant difference between the lab animals in these experiments and

the okinawans ............ and most of the humans on this planet.

We will have to await experiments on the lifespan differences of lab

animals that are deficient in several key micronutrients, before we can

have a firm view either way on this.

For now I am on the side of checking one's own nutrient deficiencies and

fixing them. On the other side of the argument there is the view that

deficiencies may provide a beneficial 'stress' on the organism which, as

with the stress of caloric restriction, might extend lifespan, not

shorten it! Sigh. (Thanks to whoever it was here who suggested this to

me a couple of years ago.)

Rodney.

--- In , Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

wrote:

>

> I'm in the middle of reading this book which is subtitled: " How

advances in

> Evolutionary Biology Can Help Us Postpone Aging " . The author is

> Rose, a researcher at the U of Cal at Irvine. I found this book at my

local

> public library.

>

> On page 113 there's an interesting passage. The author discusses the

> reasons why humans on CR will not live as long as lab animals on CR.

Of

> note he notices that the Okinawans only live slightly longer (He notes

that

> Okinawans should be living to 140 if they were following the lab

animal

> model). Okinawans only live a year or two longer than mainland

Japanese,

> for example.

>

> Rodney has several times noted this about the Okinawans and questioned

it on

> the board. We have never been able to figure out the answer.

>

> Rose's conclusion: although reducing calories (whether through eating

or

> some as yet undiscovered pill or mechanism) is " start " to the question

of

> extending life, it is not a panacea and will be only a part of a more

> complicated approach as we learn more about the complexities of aging

>

> As I finish the book, I'll post any more interesting passages.

>

> Hot fudge sundae anyone :-?

>