Getting Started

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

Welcome. I would go ahead and contact Dr. Goldberg's office to start the

process. They will send you some paperwork (extensive - they ask for detailed

information about your child's and family's health history). This takes some

time to fill out, and it will take additional time to get an appointment. Once

you send the paperwork back, call the office and make sure you get on the

cancellation list. You will get in faster that way.

In the meantime, there is a wonderful videotape/information package available on

the website (www.nids.net), which is a bit pricey (I think it's $90), but

it really helped our son's pediatrician understand Dr. Goldberg's hypothesis and

what he is trying to accomplish with the protocol.

If you need help with the costs of travel, there is an organization that can

help you. Their website is www.unlockingautism.org/angelwings.htm.

Good luck!

Donna

Getting started

I live near Omaha Nebraska and recently saw Dr. Goldberg speak. I

would like very much to try the program with my daughter but I

have no idea where to start. Do I try to sell it on our family

practice Dr. here? Do I try to get in to see Dr. Goldberg. She is

already 9....I don't want to waste anymore time.

Thanks for your ideas.

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

Hi. I just started reading the postings today! So many!

I'm sure this has been answered before, but here goes.

My son is not on the gf/cf diet. I want to try the enzymes. I have

not had him tested for specific intolerances, but I am guessing he

has some. Should I start with something like DPP-IV Forte from

Kirkman Labs which says it degrades caesin and gluten peptides, or

start with a more basic. I understand to start out slow, but could

you tell me some of the side effects you have heard about, if any?

Thank you so much,

Jodi

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody

You may want to read through the Files section at this site, then

post any further questions you have. One of the files is about

possible side effects:

/files/

This is the Side Effects File:

/files/Possible%20Side%

20Effects%20with%20Enzymes

If you have difficulty locating the files, let me know and I'll send

them to you.

You may see some increased hyperactivity, some generally negative

behavior, possible increase in stimming and sensitivity to sensory

input (like covering ears more). This should go away after three

weeks, in most cases. If you try the Houston enzymes, it may help to

start only one of them at a time. I would go slow with the dosing,

regardless of brand.

Whatever you end up trying, let us know how it goes. My son's story

is in the Success Stories file here or at Dana's site

http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/asrecovr.htm

Be sure to post any problems, there are lots of helpful people here!

> Hi. I just started reading the postings today! So many!

> I'm sure this has been answered before, but here goes.

>

> My son is not on the gf/cf diet. I want to try the enzymes. I

have

> not had him tested for specific intolerances, but I am guessing he

> has some. Should I start with something like DPP-IV Forte from

> Kirkman Labs which says it degrades caesin and gluten peptides, or

> start with a more basic. I understand to start out slow, but could

> you tell me some of the side effects you have heard about, if any?

>

> Thank you so much,

>

> Jodi

[Guest guest]

Reg Reynolds

By all means, catch Vince Carbone's introductory workshop if you can.

> From: Lainie <abkaa@...>

> Subject: Getting Started

>

> My daughter (2 years old) is currently doing Lovaas ABA. I would like to

> start Verbal Behavior, but am not sure how to get started. Do you suggest

> starting by attending one of the seminars?

>

> Thanks.

> Lainie

[Guest guest]

I'm pretty new also - my son will be 6 in November. Joined the group

middle of last month. I just did the hair elements test, and am

anxiously awaiting the results.

I found the ANDY_INDEX section link in the Files section to be very

useful. I know what you mean - there is certainly a lot of

information in this group!

Gail/Ohio

[Guest guest]

--- In , " jrlouie@o... " <jrlouie@o...>

wrote:

> Please can someone just direct me to the first baby steps of

chelation.

Here is my page

http://www.danasview.net/chelate.htm

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hello from Dorset! There are quite a few UKer's here Devin has fixed up a

supplier in Scotland so you can buy them by mail, very efficient service the

number is on the main US site

www.houstonni.com

Will write more later

MAndi in Uk

> Anyway, I've just read 's book and am keen for me and to

> start enzyme therapy. I am based in London, UK and would be grateful

> for advice on obtaining peptizide, zymeprime and culturelle. Perhaps

> there are some UK subscribers who already ship supply and this could

> be a cost effective way for me to get hold of the product.

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi List,

>

> It has been so encouraging to read all these success stories.

Thanks so

> much for posting them.

If you'd like to read some more, you can find many, here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/LOVE_LETTERS.html

> I can't wait to get started! I am sending off a

> hair test today. Is there any reason I should not go ahead and

start with

> ALA before I get the results back.

Seems okay to me--- assuming of course no amalagam fillings and

no thimerosal injections in the last 3 months AT LEAST.

> I'm not expecting to have high copper

> although I realize that there could be a source that I'm not aware

of. We

> had our spring water tested a while back and copper was not high.

I kept

> sheep for many years. They have a disease that is copper

sensitive and we

> never had any problem with that in our flock. He may have some

lead as we

> had a lead scare (we live in an old house) when the kids were

little but it

> was not high enough to be considered to need treatment. I guess

if that is

> the case I would need to add DMSA?

yep. But you could do that later if lead comes back as a problem.

If it were to turn up that he is high copper, you can stop

ALA and supplement zinc well for a while. If it makes you

feel any better, I got my first hair test done just AFTER

I started taking ALA (but I had very little idea what I was

doing, in retrospect, LOL.)

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

HI !

I'll try and answer a few of your questions!

Alcohol - I bought the reg. size bottle and after 2 weeks w/ the band we are about half through. I used to dip a toothebrush in and then rub the inside of the band but now I put it in a spray bottle and I spray the inside and then rub it down.

I also bought some johnsons baby powder that has a 12 hour time release for freshness - I sprinkle lightly before putting the band back on. I think it's helping.

I tried the kid scented shampoo - but honestly I think the J & J head to toe works best - try out different things and see what works for you and your baby.

Lotion - we used hydro a few times but honestly, I just used J & J original on her face, neck and body - no other lotion. When she broke out before the band i used Aveeno Baby Lotion for sensitive skin - it's WONDERFUL! But I like the smell of J & J.

HTH!!!!

Jen

Mommy to 4...and 1 more!!!!

LULI'S HERE!

"Luli"

www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/jens5th/

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Good luck with everything..... wow, three children under 2.5.... I have

one-year-old twins

as my only children and feel I can hardly manage! As for your questions:

rubbing alcohol-- I use the 70%. I know a lot of people like the 90%, but the

70% works

great for us. (Actually I am a biochemist and it is well known in my field that

70% alcohol

kills bacteria better than 90%..... so actually I'd recommend 70%). You'll go

through quite

a bit of it-- I've gone through half of an average-size bottle in a month. I

use a clean soft

cloth and douse it in alcohol and wipe out the helmet, and then repeat, and then

set the

helmet out in the sun if possible.

shampoo-- we use s head to toe baby wash-- works fine.

powder-- we put some gold bond powder on his head before we put the helmet on--

we

use the powder with zinc oxide and menthol in it-- we were hoping it would help

with the

itch and smell, and it does seem to.

lotion-- we've stopped putting lotion on his head, but we use 's

everywhere else.

Although my mother in law did put the 's night lotion on his head when

she was

taking care of him, and I have to admit his head smelled very fresh even after

wearing the

helmet. We;re worried that lotion under the helmet might not be good for his

skin,

though.

cooler clothing and pj's-- the helmet will keep your baby warmer than usual, so

dress her

cooler than you otherwise would. Jerry now sleeps in just a diaper and t-shirt,

or short

pj's, and during the day I dress him on the cool side. Also, clothing that

buttons down the

front or has a wide neck will be easier to put on/take off without removing the

helmet.

sunscreen or a hat for the top of the head exposed by the helmet.

that's all I can think of for now!

Joan

mom to Jerry (born 7/4/05, plagio, Hanger 6/5/06)

and (born 7/4/05)

[Guest guest]

Chase has had the STARband for 9 days and it's already such an easy part of our lives - I was afraid we'd all have a hard time adjusting! Once he did (within the first 48 hours), so did we. Here's what we've done... Alcohol - I use a baby tooth brush and scrub the inside. I do like Jen's suggestion about the spray bottle. That would be a lot nicer! Scented Shampoo - Chase has ezcema and very sensitive skin, so we can't use any of those shampoos. We use a bar of Dove sensitive skin soap and it does the trick (doesn't smell as fun as J & J or Baby Magic, but it keeps his head from breaking out). Stickers - I ran to 's about a week before the helmet and just stocked up on a ton of stickers! We have his name on the front with paw prints (we have 2 dogs and 1 cat) and that's it so far (you can check it out

on his webpage). I thought I'd change it up every week or so, but I'm really just loving his name. Plus, it's a great conversation piece at stores. I've had more people just talk directly to him and not even ask me about the helmet. My son, the ham, eats this up - so it's a win-win. Lotion - Again, because of his skin, he can't use lotion. We use a prescriptopm hydrocortisone on red patches (mostly his legs from crawling so much) and a very minimal amount on his head about 15-20 minutes before we reband. He can only use Aquaphor (I know vaseline is cheaper, but it actually makes him break out - I guess the extra ingredients in Aquaphor do the trick for his skin). Hope this helps. I loved finding this website. I was on it about 6 weeks before his band and I was so prepared with questions for our ortho, ped, PT, etc. I knew what to have ready and what to say to

people who asked questions. It's a wonderfult thing! Good luck! Keep us posted!Nikki from Chicago - Mom to Chase (8 months) coarc repair, tort, plagio and STARbanded 06/22/06 http://babiesonline.com/babies/c/cwl/

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[Guest guest]

Hello ,

These are some great questions. Hopefully you'll get some personal

responses soon - Holiday weekends can be rather slow on the board. My

daughter was a repo baby, but I'd be happy to relay some great tips

I've heard from other parents of banded babies here. Just make sure

each and every product gets the okay from your ortho as far as

compatibility with the materials your baby's band will be made from.

There is a document in the Files section of the group in the top level

called Helping Baby Adjust to First Helmet that might be worth a read.

I don't know personally about quantity of alcohol to use, sorry!

Many parents love the L'Oreal Kids shampoos:

L'Oréal Kids shampoos

These fragrant shampoos are often recommended by parents battling

helmet and band " odor. " L'Oreal Kids shampoos come in different

fragrances such as Cool Melon, Pineapple Flash, Orange Mango,

Blueberry, Strawberry, Splash of Orange, Tropical Punch, Fruity

Apricot, Banana-Melon, Watermelon, and Cherry Almond.

http://www.lorealkids.com/products/shampoos.html

Others like Aveeno products for its soothing qualities:

Aveeno Baby Wash and Shampoo

Aveeno® BabyTM Wash and Shampoo is a natural oat formula blended into

a rich lathering, tear-free cleanser. This unique oat-based formula

cleanses without drying because it is soap-free and hypoallergenic.

Aveeno® BabyTM Wash and Shampoo can be used on skin and hair for

gentle cleansing that rinses clean with a soft, fresh fragrance. It's

even gentle enough for newborns and babies with sensitive skin. Check

with your doctor/ortho for compatibility with your brand of helmet./band!

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Baby+Wash+ & +Shampoo_3362.htm

Aveeno Oatmeal Bath Treatment

Not only does Aveeno Oatmeal Bath contain oatmeal, a natural product

for reducing itching from irritated, inflammed skin conditions, this

product helps rehydrate dry, cracking eczematized, sensitive skin

conditions. Try adding just enough water to a packet of oatmeal bath

to make a thick paste, rub on your baby's head, leave on for a few

minutes, and rinse out to help sooth skin irritations.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000ZHGZM/102-8044971-7781737?v=g\

lance

Some parents have also used this Tea Tree Oil Shampoo:

Natural Cosmetics Tee Tree Oil Shampoo

A gentle formula that effectively eliminates excessive dead cells and

dandruff to gradually normalize the scalp. Known for its

anti-bacterial and anti-fungicidal properties, Certified Organic

Australian Tea Tree Oil combined with Alpha and Beta Hydroxy Acids,

purifies and fortifies hair follicles. Follow with Tea Tree Oil

conditioner to re-condition dry, brittle hair, and soothe a flaky,

irritated scalp. Check with your ortho to ensure compatibility with

your brand of helmet/band!

http://www.ediblenature.com/teetreeoilthrpyshampoo17oz-jnc.html

If cradle cap or similar becomes an issue, parents have used and

recommend these products:

Gentle Naturals Cradle Cap Treatment

Gentle Naturals Cradle Cap Treatment is specially formulated with

natural Calendula, Jojoba and Vitamins A, D and E to soften and

moisturize your baby's scalp and help remove thick crusty scales.

Check with your ortho to ensure this products is okay for use with

your baby's specific brand of helmet/band.

http://www.gentlenaturals.com/

The First Years Comfort Care All-In-One Bathing Brush

Use the sponge and built-in dispenser to clean baby's body; then use

the brush to care for baby's scalp. Hospital-quality bristles are

ideal for treating cradle cap!

http://www.thefirstyears.com/products/product.asp?pValue=4296

I also did hear of the use of this product to help with sweating:

Zeasorb Super Absorbent Powder

Absorbs excess perspiration, For use whenever removal of excess

moisture is desired, Soothes athlete's foot, chafing, heat rash and

diaper rash. This is the Regular Zeasorb, with the maroon writing on

the bottle. Use this product ONLY with the recommendation of your

orthotist for your specific helmet or band (this product may not be

compatible with your specific helmet/band.)

http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=10840 & catid=10 & brand=8966 & trx=PLS\

T-0-BRAND & trxp1=10 & trxp2=10840 & trxp3=1 & trxp4=0 & btrx=BUY-PLST-0-BRAND

As far as band decoration goes, we have member written decorating tips

documents in the Files/Decorating Tips folder with some great step gby

step instructions.

In addition, these links might help:

Scrapbook Bargains Website

A great selection of stickers to decorate your baby's band/helmet!

http://www.scrapbookbargain.com/.

Goo Gone® - Sticker Lifter

Combine Goo Gone's goo-removing expertise with our handy StickerLifter

tool and you have Goo Gone StickerLifter, the easy sticker, label,

gum, tape and decal removing system.

http://www.organize-everything.com/stickerlifter.html

I bet it is really super busy with so many little ones at home. It's

a great idea to research some of this stuff while you have a bit of time.

Take care, and let us know if these suggestions work out!

Christie (Mom to Repo'd Remy)

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> My daughter was diagnosed with plagio, and after two months of waiting

> on X-Ray & CT to rule out cranio, and insurance approval, we are

> approved for a helmet. She also has very mild torticollis, which is

> nearly resolved with 3 weeks of PT (after today, we go again in two

> weeks, and then get dismissed for 3 months if she does as well in 2

> weeks as she did today!) She is baby A of a girl-girl pair of twins.

>

> We'll use CT in Glenview, IL.

>

> Does anybody have experience with this particular location to share

> with me?

>

> When reading about this, I didn't really get how torn parents were

> about getting the helmet. Now, I understand. I have very mixed

> emotions about everything. I was surprised that she falls into the

> moderate category, as it doesn't really look so severe. She does have

> some facial involvement (left forehead, cheek, and ear more pronounced

> than the right), and the facial involvement is probably what is

> pushing us ahead with the banding. We're scheduled for casting on

> July 6th, with the helmet to arrive two weeks later.

>

> Because it's tough to get out of the house, with 3 kids aged 2.5 and

> under, I'd like to start gathering what I need now. From reading, I

> have a list that I'd like you all to add onto or edit, as necessary:

>

> alcohol (91%) - what kinds of quantity do you use?

>

> scented kid shampoos - any particular kind, for a sensitive-skinned

> baby? (even sensitive wipes have given her rashes)

>

> stickers - I can find these!

>

> Any lotions? We have hydrocortizone in the house. Anything else?

>

> Thanks everyone,

>

>

> son and twin daughters

> Baby A getting banded 7/20/06

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there, welcome to the group. Congratulations for succesfuly

jumping through all of the hoops and getting a band. We use CT in

Glenview. It is great there. Everyone is so accomodating and they

really make a bad situation as pleasent as it could possibly be. I

think any time there is facial involvement they will say moderate.

My son and I will be there on the 6th for an adjustment. If I see

someone with twin girls I'll assume it's you and say hi. Good luck

with the casting, it will really be over with before you know it.

Haylee

mom to Andre 22 months tort/doc band #1 22/11/05 doc band #2 21/6/06

& Lesly 22 months

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> My daughter was diagnosed with plagio, and after two months of

waiting

> on X-Ray & CT to rule out cranio, and insurance approval, we are

> approved for a helmet. She also has very mild torticollis, which

is

> nearly resolved with 3 weeks of PT (after today, we go again in two

> weeks, and then get dismissed for 3 months if she does as well in 2

> weeks as she did today!) She is baby A of a girl-girl pair of

twins.

>

> We'll use CT in Glenview, IL.

>

> Does anybody have experience with this particular location to share

> with me?

>

> When reading about this, I didn't really get how torn parents were

> about getting the helmet. Now, I understand. I have very mixed

> emotions about everything. I was surprised that she falls into the

> moderate category, as it doesn't really look so severe. She does

have

> some facial involvement (left forehead, cheek, and ear more

pronounced

> than the right), and the facial involvement is probably what is

> pushing us ahead with the banding. We're scheduled for casting on

> July 6th, with the helmet to arrive two weeks later.

>

> Because it's tough to get out of the house, with 3 kids aged 2.5

and

> under, I'd like to start gathering what I need now. From reading,

I

> have a list that I'd like you all to add onto or edit, as

necessary:

>

> alcohol (91%) - what kinds of quantity do you use?

>

> scented kid shampoos - any particular kind, for a sensitive-

skinned

> baby? (even sensitive wipes have given her rashes)

>

> stickers - I can find these!

>

> Any lotions? We have hydrocortizone in the house. Anything else?

>

> Thanks everyone,

>

>

> son and twin daughters

> Baby A getting banded 7/20/06

>

[Guest guest]

For the casting ...

a camera to capture the plaster moments

an extra person to take the pics and help keep the calm

a lollipop/paci/bottle to help with distraction

clean top for you (or extra person) just in case - they give you an

apron but ...

alcohol - we went through 2 regular size bottles with each child -

but my kids were banded in fall and winter.

lots of stickers - I changed themes every week - I was very picky

about my stickers. I only used clear back non-puffy. The vellum

don't last long and the paper backed don't peel off easily.

Hopefully you can find a sale with scrapbook stickers 50% off.

I used avenno baby shampoo with Kiersten - sensitive skin. I used

giggles & grins with na. The key is keeping the head dry

during the day. Take the band off frequently and dry it and the

baby's head with a clean absorbant towel. You don't want to use too

much alcohol or clean it with alcohol too often. The alcohol needs

to be thoroughly dry before putting it back on so as not to

irritate.

Remember you will be able to dress her in a lot less clothes then

the other kids - like only a diaper or onesie especially when

outside. You may want to try a fan in her room for night time

sleeping which may mean baby B needs warmer pjs.

A big floppy hat to fit over the band - small/medium kid size.

Sunscreen is not recommended under the band.

na, DOC Grad X2, Feb 04, tort resolved

Kiersten, DOC Grad, Apr 06, Tort Resolved

www.thefilyaws.com/plagio/plagio.html

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> My daughter was diagnosed with plagio, and after two months of

waiting

> on X-Ray & CT to rule out cranio, and insurance approval, we are

> approved for a helmet. She also has very mild torticollis, which

is

> nearly resolved with 3 weeks of PT (after today, we go again in two

> weeks, and then get dismissed for 3 months if she does as well in 2

> weeks as she did today!) She is baby A of a girl-girl pair of

twins.

>

> We'll use CT in Glenview, IL.

>

> Does anybody have experience with this particular location to share

> with me?

>

> When reading about this, I didn't really get how torn parents were

> about getting the helmet. Now, I understand. I have very mixed

> emotions about everything. I was surprised that she falls into the

> moderate category, as it doesn't really look so severe. She does

have

> some facial involvement (left forehead, cheek, and ear more

pronounced

> than the right), and the facial involvement is probably what is

> pushing us ahead with the banding. We're scheduled for casting on

> July 6th, with the helmet to arrive two weeks later.

>

> Because it's tough to get out of the house, with 3 kids aged 2.5

and

> under, I'd like to start gathering what I need now. From reading,

I

> have a list that I'd like you all to add onto or edit, as

necessary:

>

> alcohol (91%) - what kinds of quantity do you use?

>

> scented kid shampoos - any particular kind, for a sensitive-

skinned

> baby? (even sensitive wipes have given her rashes)

>

> stickers - I can find these!

>

> Any lotions? We have hydrocortizone in the house. Anything else?

>

> Thanks everyone,

>

>

> son and twin daughters

> Baby A getting banded 7/20/06

>

[Guest guest]

Alannah wrote:

> My question is, if I cannot find free-range, grass-fed beef bones,

> should I just get regular ones? And, actually, where can I find those?

> I've never bought bones before.

>

My grocery store, which has butchers on staff (a disappearing situation,

sadly), sells soup bones in packages, like meat. They run between $1-2

a lb. We use a lot of chicken broth, since I make broth from the

carcasses and left over bones from all of the chickens we eat, so

there's no need to pay for what we get for free.

--s

[Guest guest]

> My question is, if I cannot find free-range, grass-fed beef bones,

> should I just get regular ones? And, actually, where can I find those?

> I've never bought bones before.

>

> Alannah

You can buy beef short ribs and cook them in the crock pot and end up

with a very nice broth. Pop the coked ribs under the broiler to crisp

just before serving. Oxtail is even better eating and broth-making,

but perhaps too freaky for your family.

I'll buy organic beef bones instead of the usual grass-fed for broth

in a pinch.

Jan, on this list, will tell you not to buy " un " organic bones

(grass-fed or no) because of potential toxins. I'm fortunate that I

can get good bones locally and you, too, will find sources over

time--sometimes in the most surprising places.

In the meantime, consider lamb, which is generally grass-fed and the

neck bones make delicious broth.

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > My question is, if I cannot find free-range, grass-fed beef bones,

> > should I just get regular ones? And, actually, where can I find

those?

> > I've never bought bones before.

> >

> > Alannah

>

> You can buy beef short ribs and cook them in the crock pot and end up

> with a very nice broth. Pop the coked ribs under the broiler to crisp

> just before serving. Oxtail is even better eating and broth-making,

> but perhaps too freaky for your family.

>

> I'll buy organic beef bones instead of the usual grass-fed for broth

> in a pinch.

>

> Jan, on this list, will tell you not to buy " un " organic bones

> (grass-fed or no) because of potential toxins. I'm fortunate that I

> can get good bones locally and you, too, will find sources over

> time--sometimes in the most surprising places.

>

> In the meantime, consider lamb, which is generally grass-fed and the

> neck bones make delicious broth.

> >

>

This posted a while back, but due to some family emergencies (like my

husband and daughter both having surgery) I finally had a moment to

check out the posts. I wanted to respond to a couple of issues here:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately lamb is usually

grain fed in this country. Of course it can easily be eating its

natural diet of grass, but as in all food commodities, bigger is better

and grain fed lamb equals fatter lambs which equal bigger payments at

the sales barn. So, while lamb is wonderful, store bought domestic (as

opposed to " New Zealand " - which usually IS grassfed) will be grain fed.

The ironic thing is that lamb has the highest value of CLA of any of the

meats when fed just grass, so it really is a waste to feed it grain.

On the positive side, a little searching will often land you a farmer

within driving distance (OK, that equals a few hours in my mind) that

can supply you with grassfed (or almost) and close to Organic.

If you can't find organic and grassfed, and if it is at least grassfed,

try to find out what is not organic about the operation. The biggest

issue is feeding commercial grains which have everything from GMO to

herbicides and pesticides (they go hand in hand). So No grain feeding

will at least eliminate that. Then it is a matter of eliminating the

worst offenders in non-organics. Hormones, antibiotics, - these are

usually easy to eliminate and find " natural " meat with out them. Next,

pesticides used on the pasture or hay are usually fairly easy to

eliminate. Artificial fertilizer may be eliminated from the pasture and

hay. Lack of herbicide use will be harder to find, especially along

fence lines or " spot spraying " for weed " patches " , and lastly if the

operation is not organic they will almost certainly be using chemical

wormers. If you've gotten down to just chemical wormers and spot

spraying herbicides your meat will be miles ahead of the commercial meat

found in the store.

Organic beef or lamb wipes out those toxins, but then gives you meat and

fat devoid of the healthier omega-3s and CLAs, etc, with their crazy

insistence on grain feeding (still buying into the commodities market of

bigger equals better).

So what's one to do??

Get the most grassfed/least amount of grain-fed as possible, weighed out

with the least amount of non-organics inputs (commercial grain,

antibiotics, and herbicides). None of us lives in a perfect world -

even those of us who live on our own farms have to eat out on the road,

or at other's homes (going to my family's reunion is to be

surrounded by mounds of commercial meat, cooked with style, but so

lacking in quality!), we just do the best we can.

Keep searching and you'll find better and better sources. At least you

will know what the compromises are that you are making - or are being

forced to make - until you can find the source your happy with.

~Jan

[Guest guest]

--- Jan <bellasol.organics@...> wrote:

> Not to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately lamb is usually

> grain fed in this country.

Jan,

I'm disappointed to hear that most lamb is grain fed. I had been

buying ground lamb at Whole Foods because on their web site, they

claim the lamb they sell is " pasture raised " while they claim their

cattle/buffalo are " range raised for at least 2/3 of the animal's

life " , implying that the lamb is not grain finished (but not denying

this possibility):

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat-poultry/qualitystandards.html

I have suspected that some of the lamb was grain finished, because

some batches have had a lot more fat when cooked than others. I would

guess that grain finished lamb would have more omega-6 fat and more

fat in general than purely pastured lamb.

Oh well, I better get myself down to the farmer's market. It's more

than three times farther to drive than WF and is only open one day a

week compared to seven days a week for WF. If I buy enough frozen

meat, I can reduce the number of trips.

Hope your husband and daughter are well

[Guest guest]

>

> > Not to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately lamb is usually

> > grain fed in this country.

>

> Jan,

>

> I'm disappointed to hear that most lamb is grain fed. I had been

> buying ground lamb at Whole Foods because on their web site, they

> claim the lamb they sell is " pasture raised " while they claim their

> cattle/buffalo are " range raised for at least 2/3 of the animal's

> life " , implying that the lamb is not grain finished (but not denying

> this possibility):

>

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat->poultry/qualitystandards.\

html

I checked out the whole foods site, and how dismal it is! Cattle " range

fed 2/3's of their life " ? Well, that includes just about every beef

animal anywhere! Maybe a dairy cow doesn't qualify? I don't think you

can find a commercial beef animal that doesn't meet that requirement,

except maybe commercial veal.

>

> I have suspected that some of the lamb was grain finished, because

> some batches have had a lot more fat when cooked than others.

Unfortunately " pasture raised " means nothing about " No Grain " . And, yes

excess fat is a good indication it has been grain fed. I know a few

beef companies like Thousand Hills and Tall Grass are working on ways to

increase the fat on their grass-fed animals, (more on that later) but

100% grassfed lamb is even more rare than beef! Isn't that crazy? You

would think that sheep would be easier to raise without grain.

Unfortunately it is, as always, about economics. Farmers and ranchers

make so little, every ounce counts to try to break even or etch out a

living. (I just read a report that commercial beef producers make only

$3/head! And that is with every cost saving, subsidized commercial

grain, excess fat beef! No wonder real meat producers have to charge so

much, and still don't break even.) So grain equals more fat equals

more weight and weight is the only thing the rancher gets paid for. It

doesn't matter what makes up that weight; in fact, most sale barns will

lower the price if they perceive there is not enough fat on it. Is that

because the sales barn wants to pay more for fat, no, it's because it

ships better with fat - both the live animal and the carcass. Then,

when we cook it to death to kill off everything it picked up in the

shipping and processing plants there will be some moisture left in it to

make it palatable. SAD, SAD, SAD.

> I would

> guess that grain finished lamb would have more omega-6 fat and more

> fat in general than purely pastured lamb.

>

More omega-6 and much less Omega-3, not to mention the CLAs. The crazy

thing is that sheep actually the highest value of CLA and Omega-3 when

raised only on grass of all the meats, so it really is a shame.

> Oh well, I better get myself down to the farmer's market. It's more

> than three times farther to drive than WF and is only open one day a

> week compared to seven days a week for WF. If I buy enough frozen

> meat, I can reduce the number of trips.

Oh, I understand, try living in a small town where everything but WAL

MART is far away or closes early. Sometimes we have to make

compromises. I have several freezers and a separate refrigerator with

no freezer compartment, so I can store larger quantities of foods and

fresh vegetables. BTW, separate freezers and refrigerators are more

energy efficient than the combo ones.

>

> Hope your husband and daughter are well

>

>

>

Thanks, they are recovering nicely! I got raw milk, kefir, and yogurt

into my daughter as soon as she was home to counter the IV anti-biotics

given to her. They did work with me to give her the `least'

amount, but I am glad she is back on real food. It's a wonder any

one can get well while eating that hospital food! It's really

tragic.

Jan

[Guest guest]

I have been buying the Southern Cross (New Zealand) lamb at Costco for a

long time--anyone know off their heads if it's grass fed? It's pretty

inexpensive.

Lorien

On 5/27/07, bellasol.organics <bellasol.organics@...> wrote:

>

>

> >

>

> > > Not to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately lamb is usually

>

> > > grain fed in this country.

>

> >

>

--

http://wilsonsilverleaf.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

,

Lamb can most certainly be raised on 100% grass. We do it, and it is

wonderful! The key is the breed of sheep. Not all sheep can thrive

in a grass only environment, as it has been bred out of most.

Our Icelandic Sheep come from Iceland, where obviously, there is no

grain. The are hardy foragers, and convert grass and forbs to

healthy, tender, juicy, delicious meat. Our lambs are small compared

to standard US meat breeds, about 90 lbs. at harvest, yielding around

40 lbs of meat, but just perfect for our clients in East Central

Minnesota.

Don't give up on your search for 100% grass-fed lamb, its out there!!

Good luck,

JM

> > Not to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately lamb is usually

> > grain fed in this country.

>

> Jan,

>

> I'm disappointed to hear that most lamb is grain fed. I had been

> buying ground lamb at Whole Foods because on their web site, they

> claim the lamb they sell is " pasture raised " while they claim their

> cattle/buffalo are " range raised for at least 2/3 of the animal's

> life " , implying that the lamb is not grain finished (but not denying

> this possibility):

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lorien,

I'm trying to get started, myself!

I just Googled and found this website for the company in Australia that

produces Southern Cross Lamb: http://www.australianlamb.com/

The website says that it is grass-fed, and that the company participates in

the " Fresh Australian Range Lamb " program.

Best,

ee Meade

Burke, VA

[Guest guest]

I emailed this company about their lamb. below is their reply.

From: Carolyn Graff [mailto:zgraff@...]

Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 4:06 PM

info.usa@...

Subject: lamb

is your lamb 100% grassfed? do they get any grains?

The Australian lamb flock is predominately grass fed however many farmers are

taking the

initiative to finish the lambs with a supplementary diet prior to tendering the

lambs to

market. This diet may consist of some grains. The US consumer has proven a taste

preference for a finished lamb and the Australian farmers are catering to this

market.

Thank you,

Gilligan

VP Sales

>

> Hi Lorien,

>

> I'm trying to get started, myself!

>

> I just Googled and found this website for the company in Australia that

> produces Southern Cross Lamb: http://www.australianlamb.com/

>

> The website says that it is grass-fed, and that the company participates in

> the " Fresh Australian Range Lamb " program.

>

> Best,

> ee Meade

> Burke, VA

>

[Guest guest]

Carolyn thank you for researching this and getting the info back to the

group. It is exactly what I usually find in lamb produced by a group of

farmers. I agree with JM that lamb can be 100% grass-fed, of course, we

raise them that way also (and organic)! Nevertheless, unfortunately,

unless you ask specific questions-the most important one being " Do you

EVER feed grain? " like Carolyn did, you will not know. The term

GrassFed is like Free Range it has no real meaning. Every lamb, cattle,

or bison probably ate some grass at some time in its life. Never make

the assumption. You will probably need to get it straight from the

farmer, but be sure you ask him/her all the questions also, and you are

satisfied with their answers.

I once went to a farm who said all their milk cows were only grass-fed,

but I did not see enough decent hay in the middle of winter to be

milking. I asked if they weren't given grain " just while they were

milking " and sure enough, they were. I mentioned that I thought it was

mis-leading to advertise only the grass-fed part and that people would

pay more if they knew it was 100% GrassFed milk. Guess what? A year

later, they quit the grain completely and the small drop in production

equaled the savings in not buying grain. So they are truly GrassFed now

and there is one more source on the market. I am sure I was not the

only one talking to them about this, but it does feel good that

sometimes your questions, concerns, and honest opinions are not just

ignored. So keep letting people know what you want (Whole Foods Meat

Managers too), and buy from those who are doing it.

~Jan

www.blackberryridgellc.com <http://www.blackberryridgellc.com>

> >

> > Hi Lorien,

> >

> > I'm trying to get started, myself!

> >

> > I just Googled and found this website for the company in Australia

that

> > produces Southern Cross Lamb: http://www.australianlamb.com/

> >

> > The website says that it is grass-fed, and that the company

participates in

> > the " Fresh Australian Range Lamb " program.

> >

> > Best,

> > ee Meade

> > Burke, VA

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> Lamb can most certainly be raised on 100% grass. We do it, and it

is

> wonderful! The key is the breed of sheep. Not all sheep can

thrive

> in a grass only environment, as it has been bred out of most.

>

> Our Icelandic Sheep come from Iceland, where obviously, there is no

> grain. The are hardy foragers, and convert grass and forbs to

> healthy, tender, juicy, delicious meat. Our lambs are small

compared

> to standard US meat breeds, about 90 lbs. at harvest, yielding

around

> 40 lbs of meat, but just perfect for our clients in East Central

> Minnesota.

>

> Don't give up on your search for 100% grass-fed lamb, its out

there!!

>

> Good luck,

>

> JM

>

I agree that the breed of sheep plays a role in its ability to grow

and fatten on grass. I raise Barbados Blackbelly sheep and they are

very efficient on grass (even marginal pastures.) Their meat is

absolutely delicious. They are probably the smallest breed of hair

sheep and they are listed on the Livestock Coservancy list.

I normally raise them just on grass and hay, but this year we are in

a bad drought so I need to supplement with something else (I can't

even get hay right now.) I am feeding them beet pulp and corn

gluton and, although I'm sure there are plenty of negatives with

them (such as gmo's and pesticide residue), my research shows that

feeding these to ruminants does not change the fat structure from

that of grass feeding and it does not eliminate CLA.

Other than that, I use all natural and organic methods: NO chemical

wormers, fertilizers, or pesticides. So all in all, I think feeding

these is a reasonable compromise to selling off my flock or letting

them go hungry. But if anyone buys any meats or dairy from me, I

let them know up front how I feed. Then the customer can make an

informed decision.