Re: Re: Beets and Sweet Potatoes

[Guest guest]

Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates, by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored as fat.While I understand the logic and application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a lower steady state or a negative energy balance.Protein which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in insulin as the insulin index showed.RegardsJeff

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I understand the process of metabolism.My point remains. No one on CR is eating the equivalent of a glucose drip even if eating 5 or 6 meals. So to some degree everyone on CR is doing 1, 2,3 or 5 meals and ging through the process you describe. Maybe the 5 meal at a lower rate but still ging through it.In your example the fat stored would be very temporary though the way it was originally stated made it sound like it would be more permanent So again my question remains. You also did not address the protein insulin connectionJeffOn Aug 18, 2010 6:52 AM, citpeks <citpeks@...> wrote:

Jeff,

You ask "Where would the extra glucose come from?"

With a USDA diet of 15% protein, 55% carbohydrate, and 30% fat, the glucose comes, of course, from the carbohydrates. The Zone diet has 40% carbohydrates.

Since we eat usually three times per day, our bodies have to store the energy from the food to power our body when we are not eating. This is done by converting the sugars to glycogen or fat.

The body has a limited capacity for storing glycogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen): "(100â€"120 g in an adult) soon after a meal"

The rest of the carbohydrate has to be stored as fat through Lipogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis)

Eating is not like being on a glucose drip in a hospital. On a glucose drip, the amount of glucose administered corresponds to what is being burned from minute-to-minute, so it is not stored as fat.

Also, someone on negative energy balance will be losing weight and, in this case, the carbohydrates are not stored as fat, but rather the body fat is consumed to meet the metabolic requirements through lipolysis and gluconeogenesis.

But anybody on a steady state (steady weight maintenance, CR or no CR) who eats a meal will have a postprandial glucose spike that stimulates insulin production and lipogenesis. The only way to avoid this is to be on a glucose drip instead of eating real meals.

We eat a meal. Glucose goes up. It is stored as fat. We get hungry. The fat is burned. We eat again and the cycle is repeated until we die.

Tony

>

> >

> > Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates, by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored as fat.

> >

>

> While I understand the logic and application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a lower steady state or a negative energy balance.

>

> Protein which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in insulin as the insulin index showed.

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

[Guest guest]



I doubt there is "extra" glucose as Tony refers to it. Of course, at balance the fructose resulting would go into fat directly.

My concern is eating so little carbs that protein gets converted to glucose. A small % of that might be from vital organs.

Balancing that with the lack of accuracy we have in foods is not feasible, so I must err on the side of too much carb. And yes I doubt the viability of the IGF-1 protein connection/worry.

I think I'd rather have the IGF-1 of a 30 yo.

Their fear is cancer, but there are more problematic things to be considered in diet, one that of osteop.

Another problem is the almost impossible estimation of exercise calorie usage. It appears to me I need 5 times the caloric intake of the work done. IOW, the body is 20% efficient.

And I don't focus on single items like beets or sweet potatoes.

Thing is, we have a 106 yo lady in our town of 23K.

Thanks.

Re: [ ] Re: Beets and Sweet Potatoes

Thanks. I understand the process of metabolism.My point remains. No one on CR is eating the equivalent of a glucose drip even if eating 5 or 6 meals. So to some degree everyone on CR is doing 1, 2,3 or 5 meals and ging through the process you describe. Maybe the 5 meal at a lower rate but still ging through it.In your example the fat stored would be very temporary though the way it was originally stated made it sound like it would be more permanent So again my question remains. You also did not address the protein insulin connectionJeff

On Aug 18, 2010 6:52 AM, citpeks <citpeks@...> wrote:

Jeff,You ask "Where would the extra glucose come from?"With a USDA diet of 15% protein, 55% carbohydrate, and 30% fat, the glucose comes, of course, from the carbohydrates. The Zone diet has 40% carbohydrates.Since we eat usually three times per day, our bodies have to store the energy from the food to power our body when we are not eating. This is done by converting the sugars to glycogen or fat.The body has a limited capacity for storing glycogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen): "(100â€"120 g in an adult) soon after a meal" The rest of the carbohydrate has to be stored as fat through Lipogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis)Eating is not like being on a glucose drip in a hospital. On a glucose drip, the amount of glucose administered corresponds to what is being burned from minute-to-minute, so it is not stored as fat. Also, someone on negative energy balance will be losing weight and, in this case, the carbohydrates are not stored as fat, but rather the body fat is consumed to meet the metabolic requirements through lipolysis and gluconeogenesis.But anybody on a steady state (steady weight maintenance, CR or no CR) who eats a meal will have a postprandial glucose spike that stimulates insulin production and lipogenesis. The only way to avoid this is to be on a glucose drip instead of eating real meals.We eat a meal. Glucose goes up. It is stored as fat. We get hungry. The fat is burned. We eat again and the cycle is repeated until we die.Tony>> > > > Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates, by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored as fat.> > > > While I understand the logic and application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a lower steady state or a negative energy balance.> > Protein which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in insulin as the insulin index showed.> > Regards> Jeff>

[Guest guest]

>>>I doubt there is " extra " glucose as Tony refers to

it.

Agreed

>>>Of course, at balance the fructose resulting would go into fat

directly.

1 cup of cooked sweet potatoes have 1 gram of fructose with most of the sugars

being maltose and sucrose. I cup of cooked beets have none.

Regards

Jeff

 



 

My concern is eating so little carbs that

protein gets converted to glucose. A small % of that might be from vital

organs.

 

Balancing that with the lack of accuracy we have in

foods is not feasible, so I must err on the side of too much carb. And yes I

doubt the viability of the IGF-1 protein connection/worry.

I think I'd rather have the IGF-1 of a 30

yo.

 

Their fear is cancer, but there are more

problematic things to be considered in diet, one that of osteop.

 

Another problem is the almost impossible estimation

of exercise calorie usage. It appears to me I need 5 times the caloric intake of

the work done. IOW, the body is 20% efficient.

 

And I don't focus on single items like beets or

sweet potatoes.

 

Thing is, we have a 106 yo lady in our town of 23K.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Re: [ ] Re: Beets

and Sweet Potatoes

 

Thanks.  I understand the process of metabolism.

My point

remains.   No one on CR is eating the equivalent of a glucose drip even

if eating 5 or 6 meals. So to some degree everyone on CR is doing 1, 2,3 or 5

meals and ging through the process you describe.  Maybe the 5 meal at a

lower rate but still ging through it.

In your example the fat stored

would be very temporary though the way it was originally stated made it sound

like it would be more permanent 

So again my question

remains. 

You also did not address the protein insulin

connection

Jeff

On Aug 18, 2010 6:52 AM, citpeks <citpeks@...> wrote:

 

Jeff,

You ask " Where would the extra glucose come from? "

With a

USDA diet of 15% protein, 55% carbohydrate, and 30% fat, the glucose comes, of

course, from the carbohydrates. The Zone diet has 40%

carbohydrates.

Since we eat usually three times per day, our bodies

have to store the energy from the food to power our body when we are not

eating. This is done by converting the sugars to glycogen or fat.

The body

has a limited capacity for storing glycogen

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen):

" (100â " 120 g in an adult) soon after a meal "

The rest of the carbohydrate

has to be stored as fat through Lipogenesis

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis)

Eating

is not like being on a glucose drip in a hospital. On a glucose drip, the

amount of glucose administered corresponds to what is being burned from

minute-to-minute, so it is not stored as fat.

Also, someone on

negative energy balance will be losing weight and, in this case, the

carbohydrates are not stored as fat, but rather the body fat is consumed to

meet the metabolic requirements through lipolysis and

gluconeogenesis.

But anybody on a steady state (steady weight

maintenance, CR or no CR) who eats a meal will have a postprandial glucose

spike that stimulates insulin production and lipogenesis. The only way to

avoid this is to be on a glucose drip instead of eating real meals.

We

eat a meal. Glucose goes up. It is stored as fat. We get hungry. The fat is

burned. We eat again and the cycle is repeated until we

die.

Tony

>

> >

> >

Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates,

by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than

fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates

always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored

as fat.

> >

>

> While I understand the logic and

application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of

positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the

extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a

lower steady state or a negative energy balance.

>

> Protein

which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in

insulin as the insulin index showed.

>

> Regards

>

Jeff

>

 

[Guest guest]

I am not losing sight of anything but only responding to the points raised.The point raised was in regard to fructose. In both cases, neither foods has fructose (or any of any concern) or breaks down into fructose.However, Like you, I would like to return the focus on the original point and get back to the original question I posed, which has not been addressed yetThanksJeffFrom: citpeks <citpeks@...>Subject: [ ] Re: Beets and Sweet Potatoes Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 1:17 PM

By focusing on the free sugar in sweet potatoes, you lose sight of the whole picture. Starch is a polymer of glucose.

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/carbohydrates1.html

Don't forget that the amylase in saliva turns all starches into glucose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amylase

"Amylase is an enzyme that breaks starch down into sugar. Amylase is present in human saliva, where it begins the chemical process of digestion. Foods that contain much starch but little sugar, such as rice and potato, taste slightly sweet as they are chewed because amylase turns some of their starch into sugar in the mouth."

Here is the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 22 (2009) for 1 cup (328g) of Sweet potato, cooked, boiled, without skin:

kcal: 249

Protein 4.49g

Total lipid (fat) 0.46g

Carbohydrate 58.12g

Fiber 8.2g

Sugars 18.83g

Sucrose 4.69g

Glucose (dextrose) 1.77g

Fructose 1.41g

Starch 17.12g

A cup of sweet potatoes has as much carbohydrate as a couple of Cokes, but unlike the soda, it has some useful nutrients like vitamin A and beta carotene. The fact that one cup of sweet potatoes has 249 calories means that the 58 grams of carbohydrate are completely metabolized (232 Calories from carb, 18 calories from protein).

Tony

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health/healthfr0.html

> >

> > >

> > >

> Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates,

> by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than

> fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates

> always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored

> as fat.

> > >

> >

> > While I understand the logic and

> application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of

> positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the

> extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a

> lower steady state or a negative energy balance.

> >

> > Protein

> which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in

> insulin as the insulin index showed.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> Jeff

> >

>

>

> Â

>

[Guest guest]

For the recordIn regard to nutrient density, on an equal calorie basis16 oz of cola is 180 calories and based on CRON-O-Meter. It is supplying 9% of the caloric needs of a 2000 calorie diet, and 0% of Vitamins and 2% of Minerals making it a junk food.1 cup of Sweet Potato, also supplies 180 calories which is also 9% of the caloric needs of a 2000 calorie diet. However, it also supplies 23% of Vitamins and 19% of Minerals, making it a very calorie dense food. Sweet potato formed the base (69%) of the diet of the long lived Okinawan centenarians. I don't think they would have done so well getting 69% of their calories from coke.:)RegardsJeffFrom: citpeks <citpeks@...>Subject: [ ] Re: Beets and Sweet Potatoes Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 1:17 PM

By focusing on the free sugar in sweet potatoes, you lose sight of the whole picture. Starch is a polymer of glucose.

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/carbohydrates1.html

Don't forget that the amylase in saliva turns all starches into glucose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amylase

"Amylase is an enzyme that breaks starch down into sugar. Amylase is present in human saliva, where it begins the chemical process of digestion. Foods that contain much starch but little sugar, such as rice and potato, taste slightly sweet as they are chewed because amylase turns some of their starch into sugar in the mouth."

Here is the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 22 (2009) for 1 cup (328g) of Sweet potato, cooked, boiled, without skin:

kcal: 249

Protein 4.49g

Total lipid (fat) 0.46g

Carbohydrate 58.12g

Fiber 8.2g

Sugars 18.83g

Sucrose 4.69g

Glucose (dextrose) 1.77g

Fructose 1.41g

Starch 17.12g

A cup of sweet potatoes has as much carbohydrate as a couple of Cokes, but unlike the soda, it has some useful nutrients like vitamin A and beta carotene. The fact that one cup of sweet potatoes has 249 calories means that the 58 grams of carbohydrate are completely metabolized (232 Calories from carb, 18 calories from protein).

Tony

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health/healthfr0.html

> >

> > >

> > >

> Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates,

> by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than

> fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates

> always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored

> as fat.

> > >

> >

> > While I understand the logic and

> application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of

> positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the

> extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a

> lower steady state or a negative energy balance.

> >

> > Protein

> which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in

> insulin as the insulin index showed.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> Jeff

> >

>

>

> Â

>

[Guest guest]

The sweet potatoes also have fiber and possibly other nutrients we haven’t even discovered yet because it’s a genuine “food”, not a processed product. The cokes are mostly sugar, chemicals and flavoring.

From: http://answers.ask.com/Food_and_Drinks/Other/what_are_the_ingredients_of_coca_cola

The recipe to Coca-Cola is a trade secret. Only a few Coca-Cola employees are said to have access to it. Some of the main ingredients are carbonated water, sugar and caramel color.

On 8/18/10 1:17 PM, " citpeks " <citpeks@...> wrote:

A cup of sweet potatoes has as much carbohydrate as a couple of Cokes, but unlike the soda, it has some useful nutrients like vitamin A and beta carotene. The fact that one cup of sweet potatoes has 249 calories means that the 58 grams of carbohydrate are completely metabolized (232 Calories from carb, 18 calories from protein).

Tony

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health/healthfr0.html

> >

> > >

> > >

> Many CRONies try to avoid blood sugar spikes by eating complex carbohydrates,

> by adding fiber to their diet, and by eating several small meals, rather than

> fewer large meals. Regardless of how you space your meals, carbohydrates

> always stimulate an insulin response that causes excess glucose to be stored

> as fat.

> > >

> >

> > While I understand the logic and

> application of this last statement for anyone who is in a constant state of

> positive energy balance, for someone following a CR diet, where would the

> extra glucose (calories) be coming from? Anyone following CR would be in a

> lower steady state or a negative energy balance.

> >

> > Protein

> which may not stimulate an spike in glucose, also stimulates an increase in

> insulin as the insulin index showed.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> Jeff

> >

>

>

>  

>

[Guest guest]



Thanks, Jeff

Do not all complex carbs digest into glucose and fructose?

Regards

Re: [ ] Re: Beets and Sweet Potatoes Thanks. I understand the process of metabolism.My point remains. No one on CR is eating the equivalent of a glucose drip even if eating 5 or 6 meals. So to some degree everyone on CR is doing 1, 2,3 or 5 meals and ging through the process you describe. Maybe the 5 meal at a lower rate but still ging through it.In your example the fat stored would be very temporary though the way it was originally stated made it sound like it would be more permanent So again my question remains. You also did not address the protein insulin connectionJeffOn Aug 18, 2010 6:52 AM, citpeks <citpeks@...> wrote: Jeff,You ask "Where would the extra glucose come from?"With a USDA diet of 15% protein, 55% carbohydrate, and 30% fat, the glucose comes, of course, from the carbohydrates. The Zone diet has 40% carbohydrates.Since we eat usually three times per day, our bodies have to store the energy from the food to power our body when we are not eating. This is done by converting the sugars to glycogen or fat.The body has a limited capacity for storing glycogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen): "(100â"120 g in an adult) soon after a meal" The rest of the carbohydrate has to be stored as fat through Lipogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis)Eating is not like being on a glucose drip in a hospital. On a glucose drip, the amount of glucose administered corresponds to what is being burned from minute-to-minute, so it is not stored as fat. Also, someone on negative energy balance will be losing weight and, in this case, the carbohydrates are not stored as fat, but rather the body fat is consumed to meet the metabolic requirements through lipolysis and gluconeogenesis.But anybody on a steady state (steady weight maintenance, CR or no CR) who eats a meal will have a postprandial glucose spike that stimulates insulin production and lipogenesis. The only way to avoid this is to be on a glucose drip instead of eating real meals.We eat a meal. Glucose goes up. It is stored as fat. We get hungry. The fat is burned. We eat again and the cycle is repeated until we die.Tony

[Guest guest]

Depends on the di-saccharides and which mono-saccharides that make them up. But, yes, in the case of sucrose, it is fructose and glucose. So, about half of the sucrose in the sweet potatoes would break down to fructose. Thanks!Jeff Jeff,You ask "Where would the extra glucose come from?"With a USDA diet of 15% protein, 55% carbohydrate, and 30% fat, the glucose comes, of course, from the carbohydrates. The Zone diet has 40% carbohydrates.Since we eat usually three times per day, our bodies have to store the energy from the food to power our body when we are not eating. This is done by converting the sugars to glycogen or fat.The body has a limited capacity for storing glycogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen): "(100â"120 g in an adult) soon after a meal" The rest of the carbohydrate has to be stored as fat through Lipogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis)Eating is not like being on a glucose drip in a hospital. On a glucose drip, the amount of glucose administered corresponds to what is being burned from minute-to-minute, so it is not stored as fat. Also, someone on negative energy balance will be losing weight and, in this case, the carbohydrates are not stored as fat, but rather the body fat is consumed to meet the metabolic requirements through lipolysis and gluconeogenesis.But anybody on a steady state (steady weight maintenance, CR or no CR) who eats a meal will have a postprandial glucose spike that stimulates insulin production and lipogenesis. The only way to avoid this is to be on a glucose drip instead of eating real meals.We eat a meal. Glucose goes up. It is stored as fat. We get hungry. The fat is burned. We eat again and the cycle is repeated until we die.Tony

[Guest guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysaccharidehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysaccharide#Starches -- Aalt Pater

From: Jeff Novick jnovickrd@...

Depends on the di-saccharides and which mono-saccharides that make them up. But, yes, in the case of sucrose, it is fructose and glucose. So, about half of the sucrose in the sweet potatoes would break down to fructose.

Thanks, Jeff

Do not all complex carbs digest into glucose and fructose?