Vitamin B12

[Guest guest]

Suze-

> I know you mentioned his CoQ10 with tocotrienols from rice bran,

> but I think the tocotrienols are included for a specific nutritional

> reason

> as opposed to being used as a filler.

As far as the rice bran goes, if it's a nutritional reason, it's a

poor one. At best it's an economic reason, IMO, as rice bran is

presumably a cheap source of CoQ10. But since the vast, vast majority

of CoQ10 supplements on the market use extracts or manufactured CoQ10,

and since rice bran has all the other characteristics of a filler as

well as being hard on the gut, I think it counts.

He is to be commended, though, for mostly avoiding fillers, and I

didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But as with all sources, buyer be

careful.

> Other than that product, the only other supplements with additives I

> can

> think of that he has, are some of the newer formulas that contain

> bioprene -

> an extract of black pepper that's supposed to aid in absorption, I

> think.

> 90+ percent of his supps contain nothing that can be considered

> either a

> binder or additive, even a beneficial one.

Bioperine's not a filler. Now, whether it's a good idea... who

knows. It increases absorption, and for some compounds that's all but

essential, but I'd like to know more about the mechanism by which it

does so.

-

[Guest guest]

I just found some articles that address the issue.

http://westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminb12.html

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/all

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Suze-

>

>

> > I know you mentioned his CoQ10 with tocotrienols from rice bran,

> > but I think the tocotrienols are included for a specific nutritional

> > reason

> > as opposed to being used as a filler.

>

> As far as the rice bran goes, if it's a nutritional reason, it's a

> poor one. At best it's an economic reason, IMO, as rice bran is

> presumably a cheap source of CoQ10. But since the vast, vast majority

> of CoQ10 supplements on the market use extracts or manufactured CoQ10,

> and since rice bran has all the other characteristics of a filler as

> well as being hard on the gut, I think it counts.

>

> He is to be commended, though, for mostly avoiding fillers, and I

> didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But as with all sources, buyer be

> careful.

>

> > Other than that product, the only other supplements with additives I

> > can

> > think of that he has, are some of the newer formulas that contain

> > bioprene -

> > an extract of black pepper that's supposed to aid in absorption, I

> > think.

> > 90+ percent of his supps contain nothing that can be considered

> > either a

> > binder or additive, even a beneficial one.

>

> Bioperine's not a filler. Now, whether it's a good idea... who

> knows. It increases absorption, and for some compounds that's all but

> essential, but I'd like to know more about the mechanism by which it

> does so.

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > Other than that product, the only other supplements with additives I can

> > think of that he has, are some of the newer formulas that contain

bioprene -

> > an extract of black pepper that's supposed to aid in absorption, I

think.

> > 90+ percent of his supps contain nothing that can be considered either a

> > binder or additive, even a beneficial one.

> >

> > Suze

>

> That's correct. The vast majority of his supplements simply list " gelatin

capsule " as

> the

> only other ingredient.

Additionally, he's happy to provide assays that demonstrate purity.

Generally, if you have a question about his supps I can answer it. I have

been his webmaster for years and will be carrying most of his products on my

own site soon (www.wolfrivernaturals.com) so I've read all the literature on

each one and have asked him additional questions not covered in the lit.

Suze

[Guest guest]

>

> Suze-

>

> > I know you mentioned his CoQ10 with tocotrienols from rice bran,

> > but I think the tocotrienols are included for a specific nutritional

> > reason

> > as opposed to being used as a filler.

>

> As far as the rice bran goes, if it's a nutritional reason, it's a

> poor one.

That could very well be, but my point is that it's not added in order to

fill space, AFAIK.

At best it's an economic reason, IMO, as rice bran is

> presumably a cheap source of CoQ10.

I wasn't aware that it's a source of CoQ10. It's actually in there for the

tocotrienols - vit. E. I also don't know if it's whole rice bran or

tocotrienols extracted from rice bran. The label just says " tocotriene

complex " . I know you and Binky had trouble digesting it and you think it's

most likely due to the residual rice bran or maybe even straight rice bran.

I will ask him this question actually as I probably will include this

product on my own site.

But since the vast, vast majority

> of CoQ10 supplements on the market use extracts or manufactured CoQ10,

> and since rice bran has all the other characteristics of a filler as

> well as being hard on the gut, I think it counts.

We will have to disagree on this point then. I'm not really sure what your

first sentence has to do with whether or not the tocotrienols are fillers or

not, but his CoQ10 is from bacterial fermentation.

>

> He is to be commended, though, for mostly avoiding fillers, and I

> didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But as with all sources, buyer be

> careful.

Yeh, I didn't think you meant otherwise.

Suze

[Guest guest]

Can anyone tell me the best base to get the B12 from? Animals is what I

thought but maybe they have a way of getting it out of the animal

source? I just ordered Jarrow but they use bad things for their

capsules etc.. Hope I haven't wasted my money.

On Apr 3, 2008, at 2:20 PM, Rashad Tatum wrote:

> I just found some articles that address the issue.

>

> http://westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminb12.html

>

> http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/all

Parashis

artpages@...

portfolio pages:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11468108@N08/

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

Suze-

> That could very well be, but my point is that it's not added in

> order to

> fill space, AFAIK.

Not precisely, but it's a cheap ingredient which has, IMO, at best a

dubious benefit. I don't think it's much of a stretch to call it a

filler.

> At best it's an economic reason, IMO, as rice bran is

> > presumably a cheap source of CoQ10.

>

> I wasn't aware that it's a source of CoQ10. It's actually in there

> for the

> tocotrienols - vit. E.

No, I just spaced and said CoQ10 instead of tocotrienols. A senior

moment. <g>

> I also don't know if it's whole rice bran or

> tocotrienols extracted from rice bran. The label just says " tocotriene

> complex " .

IIRC it's rice bran; if he were offering tocotrienols _extracted_ from

rice bran, that would be a selling point and I'd expect him to tout it

as all other supplement vendors selling such extracts do. (Though the

best source is palm, not rice bran... but that's another story.)

> I know you and Binky had trouble digesting it and you think it's

> most likely due to the residual rice bran or maybe even straight

> rice bran.

> I will ask him this question actually as I probably will include this

> product on my own site.

" Trouble " is an understatement. Obviously that won't be true for

everyone, but even for people who have no trouble, I'd expect the

availability to be rather low.

> We will have to disagree on this point then. I'm not really sure

> what your

> first sentence has to do with whether or not the tocotrienols are

> fillers or

> not, but his CoQ10 is from bacterial fermentation.

Yeah, again, I just spaced out on which supplement we were talking

about and somehow conflated the rice bran / tocotrienol issue with

CoQ10.

-

[Guest guest]

Was that you, , who said he got powdered B12 from a pharmaceutical?

Are you willing to share which one and do you put the powder under your

tongue? I would imagine so since we can't absorb through our stomachs.

Want a good source very much.

Thanks

Parashis

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

After more than a full month, my 25(OH)D result has not come in yet!!!

But something else, probably important, turned up among the other results. I apparently have an unacceptably low vitamin B12 reading. This is new. A year ago this number was comfortably above the low end of the range. This of course caused me to do some reading on the subject. We have all long known that it is obtained only from animal products, and it was surprising to me to find my level is low because I have been eating more animal products than usual over the past several months.

But what I did not know is that the recommended intake of this vitamin is increased for those over the age of 50 because of a decreased intestinal absorption of it with increasing age. And apparently, as with vitamin D, large doses of the vitamin are required to raise blood levels of it, either via intra-muscular injection or orally.

The test is being re-done for confirmation that they did not screw up the first one (more than possible!). And if the new result confirms the first then I will start taking substantial supplements of it. Hopefully orally. Apparently the synthetic version of the vitamin is far better absorbed than when the vitamin is contained in food.

If you are over 50 and have not had your vitamin B12 level tested, perhaps you should.

The best source I know for information on micro-nutrients such as B12 can be found at the University of Oregon website. This is their page for vitamin B12, and you will see how comprehensively they cover the subject matter:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminB12/

Any thoughts on the topic will be very welcome. Thanks.

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Here is the gist of Jeff’s post :

Caloric Restriction, the Traditional Okinawan Diet, and Healthy Aging,

The Diet of the World’s Longest-Lived People and Its Potential Impact on Morbidity and Life Span

Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci. 1114: 434–455 (2007).

The data from 1949, which was reflective of those who would become centenarians, showed their intake to provide about a 11% restriction (in regard to their estimated energy needs). This is one that seems to go along with the more moderate approach we lean towards here.

This resulted in an estimated BMI of 21.2, again, well within the 18.5 - 22 that other data we have posted here supports.

They were estimated to burn about 841 calories per day which (after accounting for TEF) would be an activity factor of about 1.55 which is the equivalent of being moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) which again, would be inline with what we say here.

The calorie density of the diet was 1.4 cal/gm or 635 cal/pound which is also in line with the recent WCF/AICR report on cancer that recommended an average calorie density of 1.25 cal/gm or 567 calories per pound.

But what i found most interesting is in spite of their nutrient dense diet, they were short on several nutrients.

Nutrient, Amount, % RDA

Vitamin D (mcg) 0.4 2%

Vitamin B2(mg) 0.5 45%

Niacin (mg) 13.2 93%

Vitamin B12: 0.6 27%

Calcium (mg) 505.3 82%

Zinc (mg) 6.2 62%

And while several reported experiencing some signs/symptoms reflective of these deficiencies, including 14% reported experiencing symptoms of Cheilosis, which is reflective of the B deficiencies, this didn't effect the overall benefit of their overall diet and lifestyle to their longevity.

My point is that maybe we are splitting hairs over micro-managing some things that may not matter to the bigger picture. With the bigger picture being, restrict calories 10-20%, aim for a BMI of 18.5 - 22, focus on low calorie dense, high nutrient dense foods, be moderately active, and enjoy life.

Regards

Jeff

From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:50:46 -0400

support group < >

Conversation: [ ] Vitamin B12

Subject: Re: [ ] Vitamin B12

My only thought is Jeff’s post a while ago which I have mentioned several times since he first posted it:

about centenarians who had vitamin deficiencies yet were not only old but healthy and vital.    Moral: deficiencies may not be an important issue for living a long, healthy life.  Since then I don’t sweat this issue or worry about it.  Here is Jeff’s post:

/message/27065

From: Rodney <perspect1111@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:57:32 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] Vitamin B12

Hi folks:

After more than a full month, my 25(OH)D result has not come in yet!!!

But something else, probably important, turned up among the other results. I apparently have an unacceptably low vitamin B12 reading. This is new. A year ago this number was comfortably above the low end of the range. This of course caused me to do some reading on the subject. We have all long known that it is obtained only from animal products, and it was surprising to me to find my level is low because I have been eating more animal products than usual over the past several months.

But what I did not know is that the recommended intake of this vitamin is increased for those over the age of 50 because of a decreased intestinal absorption of it with increasing age. And apparently, as with vitamin D, large doses of the vitamin are required to raise blood levels of it, either via intra-muscular injection or orally.

The test is being re-done for confirmation that they did not screw up the first one (more than possible!). And if the new result confirms the first then I will start taking substantial supplements of it. Hopefully orally. Apparently the synthetic version of the vitamin is far better absorbed than when the vitamin is contained in food.

If you are over 50 and have not had your vitamin B12 level tested, perhaps you should.

The best source I know for information on micro-nutrients such as B12 can be found at the University of Oregon website. This is their page for vitamin B12, and you will see how comprehensively they cover the subject matter:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminB12/

Any thoughts on the topic will be very welcome. Thanks.

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

I eat liver & onions twice a week, which puts my B12

at the high end of the reference range (and once it

even put me above the reference range).

Bruce

>...I apparently have an unacceptably low vitamin B12 reading....

> Any thoughts on the topic will be very welcome. Thanks. Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi PJ

I have taken B12 in both forms. I am lucky because my husband is able to give me

the shots. I have taken the supplement orally though. I took it in the

mid-morning. I cannot take vitamins without food. That might just be me but they

make me really sick to my stomach if I don't. My doctor warned me not to take

them at night as I would have trouble sleeping which I guess makes sense. I

guess it depends when you eat your first meal. I don't eat an early breakfast so

thats why I do mid morning. Hope this helps. I do find the shot really helps me

a little more than the pills. You might look into finding someone who can give

you your shot. Maybe a friend or relative that has some medical experience or is

will to learn. You can also self inject although I don't think I could do that.

Hope this helps

Heres to Pain Free Day (Or an Hour)

Carol

[Guest guest]

Hi PJ.

 

I take my B12 when I get up in the morning.  It desloves under my tongue in no

time.  It has helped my poor feet so much.  I take 1 1,000 mg each day.  I

buy mine at the health food store.

 

Good luck and I hope it helps your blood.

 

Hugs,

 

Barbara

From: Patti Yuswak <WhtBC10@...>

Subject: [ ] Vitamin B12

Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 12:18 AM

 

Hi,

From the emails I've read here it seems that quite a few people take vitamin

B12, either in pill form or injection. I was just re-tested after getting 9

shots and my B12 has improved quite a bit (to 689 from 189). My Dr wants me

to keep taking a supplement but she said I could go with the pill form now

if I wanted to and get re-tested in a few months.

As it would be easier for me to take pills rather than drive all the way to

my Dr I have picked up the vitamin (2000 mg/day) but haven't started yet as

I'm unsure when to take it. I've looked on the internet and there is

conflicting advice so I thought I'd ask here to get some hands on advice

from people with experience.

Should it be taken with food or without? Should I take 1/2 in the morning

and 1/2 in the evening or all at once? Can it upset my stomach or are there

any other side effects I should be aware of?

Any information at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

PJ

[Guest guest]

Thank you Barb! I don't have the one that dissolves but it sounds like morning

is the time to take it. I'm so hoping it helps my feet. I just found out I

have a bone spur and plantar fasciitis in my right foot so I'm on steroids now

as well. It's always something, isn't it? :-)

Hugs back,

PJ

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf

Of Barbara Creedon

Subject: Re: [ ] Vitamin B12

Hi PJ.

I take my B12 when I get up in the morning. It desloves under my tongue in no

time. It has helped my poor feet so much. I take 1 1,000 mg each day. I buy

mine at the health food store.

Good luck and I hope it helps your blood.

Hugs,

Barbara

___

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

Thank you so much. After I've been on the B12 pill for a few months my Dr

wants to re-test and if my number has dropped, if so then I think she'll

want me back on the shot. I think, after what you said below, that I might

look into the shot before then, my husband could give it to me then I don't

have to worry about my stomach. When I was getting the shot from the doctor

they told me it had to be in the muscle, not sure I could do that to myself,

hard enough to give myself the enbrel subcutaneously. :-) Morning sounds

like the time to do it, I didn't even think about the sleeping aspect.

Thanks!

PJ

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of em

Subject: [ ] Re: Vitamin B12

Hi PJ

I have taken B12 in both forms. I am lucky because my husband is able to

give me the shots. I have taken the supplement orally though. I took it in

the mid-morning. I cannot take vitamins without food. That might just be me

but they make me really sick to my stomach if I don't. My doctor warned me

not to take them at night as I would have trouble sleeping which I guess

makes sense. I guess it depends when you eat your first meal. I don't eat an

early breakfast so thats why I do mid morning. Hope this helps. I do find

the shot really helps me a little more than the pills. You might look into

finding someone who can give you your shot. Maybe a friend or relative that

has some medical experience or is will to learn. You can also self inject

although I don't think I could do that.

Hope this helps

Heres to Pain Free Day (Or an Hour)

Carol

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Yes it will boost our immune system and I take my B12 for the Neuropathy pain in

both of my feet.

 

Hope the B12 does the trick for you.

 

Hugs,

 

Barbara

From: Heidi Kimball <hkimball48@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Vitamin B12

Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 11:14 AM

 

Hi,

I've also just recently began taking B12 and am also curious if others have

taken this vitamin and the results. My understanding is that improves immunity,

which mine is terrible.

Heidi in Denver

________________________________

From: Patti Yuswak <WhtBC10@...>

Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 10:18:38 PM

Subject: [ ] Vitamin B12

Hi,

From the emails I've read here it seems that quite a few people take vitamin

B12, either in pill form or injection. I was just re-tested after getting 9

shots and my B12 has improved quite a bit (to 689 from 189). My Dr wants me

to keep taking a supplement but she said I could go with the pill form now

if I wanted to and get re-tested in a few months.

As it would be easier for me to take pills rather than drive all the way to

my Dr I have picked up the vitamin (2000 mg/day) but haven't started yet as

I'm unsure when to take it. I've looked on the internet and there is

conflicting advice so I thought I'd ask here to get some hands on advice

from people with experience.

Should it be taken with food or without? Should I take 1/2 in the morning

and 1/2 in the evening or all at once? Can it upset my stomach or are there

any other side effects I should be aware of?

Any information at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

PJ