Re: Kenyon (was: Preventable Causes of Death)

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

I have, of course, heard of Dr. Kenyon, and had assumed her to be a

competent researcher until I read the following post of yours, which responded

to one of mine. Your post - number 28717 I think it was - said:

========================

" This seems to agree with the work of Dr. Kenyon and her work with worms

" Personal diet

" Kenyon's research prompted her to make personal dietary changes. She stopped

eating high glycemic index carbohydrates when she discovered that putting sugar

on the worms' food shortened their lifespans.[1]

" Kenyon follows a low glycemic index diet similar to the Atkins diet[1] and the

South Beach Diet[2].

" No desserts. No sweets. No potatoes. No rice. No bread. No pasta. When I say

`no,' I mean `no, or not much,' she notes. Instead, eat green vegetables. Eat

the fruits that aren't the sweet fruits, like melon. Bananas? Bananas are a

little sweet. Meat? Meat, yes, of course. Avocados. All vegetables. Nuts. Fish.

Chicken. That's what I eat. Cheese. Eggs. And one glass of red wine a day.[3]

" I have a fabulous blood profile. My triglyceride level is only 30, and anything

below 200 is good.[3]

" You have to eat something, and you just have to make your best judgement. And

that's my best judgement. Plus, I feel better. Plus, I'm thin—I weigh what I

weighed when I was in college. I feel great —you feel like you're a kid again.

It's amazing.[3]

" In the past, Kenyon had also briefly experimented with a calorie restriction

diet for two days, but couldn't stand the constant hunger. "

=========================

After reading that post of yours, about Dr. Kenyon, my view of her changed. Her

diet, as listed above, sounds to me like a very low carb, high fat high protein

diet. The " No sweets. No potatoes. No rice. No bread. No pasta. When I say

`no,' I mean `no, or not much', " sounds very Atkins-like to me. And when

followed by the: " Meat? Yes meat of course " along with cheese and eggs I find

myself shaking my head. I eat meat and cheese also, but very much in

moderation, rather than bragging about it as she seems to be!

So, as I said earlier, I would love to know the science (published references)

supporting the diet described above (especially evidence of extended lifespan)

and the logic behind it. Dr. Atkins most likely died of a massive stroke at a

weight of 270 pounds. So I find it difficult to have much confidence in

anything he ever recommended about diet.

This is of interest to me because my diet is radically different from Dr.

Kenyon's, so if she is right, then I am wrong! And if I am wrong I would want

to know about it.

Of course if you add sugar (extra calories) to a nematode's diet one would

expect the extra calories to shorten lifespan, as we all here realize. So that

finding, as stated in that piece you quoted, I do not finding surprising. Most

of us around here, I had thought, would agree that adding extra empty sugar

calories to ANY animal's diet would be likely to shorten lifespan. But, imo,

that is hardly evidence proving we should all adopt a high fat, high protein,

Atkins diet. It seems to me like yet more evidence, as if we needed more

evidence, that that we should be restricting calories - especially empty

calories - while maintaining adequate nutrition.

Does this make my position on this issue any clearer?

The first part of the post of mine to which you replied is attached next, below.

Rodney.

On 12/13/09 4:51 PM, " perspect1111 " <perspect1111@...> wrote:

Thanks Andre. Good paper.

The PubMed ID number is: 19956092

As you note, quite a number of issues are raised by this paper.

Much of this work seems to be in agreement with the work being done in Spain on

the aging rate of mice by Sanz, Caro, Barja, et al. Their experiments have

found that 'protein only' restriction accounts for all the reduction in aging

rate produced by CR. But they found mice restricted in 'methionine only' also

had a slowed rate of aging, but to an extent less than the mice restricted in

all amino acids - not quite the same finding as Partridge's.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Hi folks:

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > I was taking a snoop at Jeff Novick's Facebook page and came

across

> an

> >>>> > >> interesting post containing information I had not seen previously,

> >>>> > >> quantifying annual deaths in the US from preventable causes. The

> >>>> numbers

> >>>> > >> were based on data from 2005.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > In that year here are the number of deaths believed to have

> >>>>> resulted from

> >>>> > >> each of the following causes, out of 2.5 million total deaths:

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > 467,000 --- Tobacco smoking.

> >>>>> > >> > 395,000 --- Hypertension.

> >>>>> > >> > 216,000 --- Excessive body weight.

> >>>>> > >> > 191,000 --- Inadequate exercise.

> >>>>> > >> > 102,000 --- Excessive salt intake.

> >>>>> > >> > 84,000 --- Low intake of beneficial fat from fish.

> >>>>> > >> > 82,000 --- Intake of trans fatty acids.

> >>>>> > >> > 64,000 --- Excessive alcohol intake.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > I found this interesting since only the body weight issue is

>>>>>

> directly

> >>>> > >> related to CR. So this list provides, at least for me, a helpful

> >>>> overview of

> >>>> > >> the things I really ought to be doing in addition to CR. On the

> >>>> question of

> >>>> > >> alcohol, the study found that, at least for the population as a

whole

> the

> >>>> > >> well known benefits were outweighed by the disadvantages.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Of course almost all of us here have long realized these are

health

> >>>>> issues.

> >>>> > >> And no doubt have adapted our lives accordingly. But it is nice to

> see

> >>>> > >> numbers attached to them to give some idea of their relative

> >>>> importance. For

> >>>> > >> example, I had not realized the fish fats EPA and DHA to be as

> >>>> significant as

> >>>> > >> this study has found.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Source:

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > " The preventable causes of death in the United States:

comparative

> risk

> >>>> > >> assessment of dietary, lifestyle, and metabolic risk factors. "

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Danaei G, Ding EL, Mozaffarian D, B, Rehm J, Murray CJ,

> >>>>> Ezzati M.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > PLoS Med. 2009 Apr 28;6(4):e1000058. Epub 2009 Apr 28.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > PMID: 19399161

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > [Thanks Jeff!]

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Rodney.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. I posted that? She said that? I was under a different (perhaps false?) assumption. I will search for other info about her diet which I could swear was a lot like ours (so I assume I read that somewhere). Perhaps this reporter below took some liberties with the facts.

On 1/19/10 12:39 AM, " perspect1111 " <perspect1111@...> wrote:

Hi Francesca:

I have, of course, heard of Dr. Kenyon, and had assumed her to be a competent researcher until I read the following post of yours, which responded to one of mine. Your post - number 28717 I think it was - said:

========================

" This seems to agree with the work of Dr. Kenyon and her work with worms

" Personal diet

" Kenyon's research prompted her to make personal dietary changes. She stopped eating high glycemic index carbohydrates when she discovered that putting sugar on the worms' food shortened their lifespans.[1]

" Kenyon follows a low glycemic index diet similar to the Atkins diet[1] and the South Beach Diet[2].

" No desserts. No sweets. No potatoes. No rice. No bread. No pasta. When I say `no,' I mean `no, or not much,' she notes. Instead, eat green vegetables. Eat the fruits that aren't the sweet fruits, like melon. Bananas? Bananas are a little sweet. Meat? Meat, yes, of course. Avocados. All vegetables. Nuts. Fish. Chicken. That's what I eat. Cheese. Eggs. And one glass of red wine a day.[3]

" I have a fabulous blood profile. My triglyceride level is only 30, and anything below 200 is good.[3]

" You have to eat something, and you just have to make your best judgement. And that's my best judgement. Plus, I feel better. Plus, I'm thin˜I weigh what I weighed when I was in college. I feel great ˜you feel like you're a kid again. It's amazing.[3]

" In the past, Kenyon had also briefly experimented with a calorie restriction diet for two days, but couldn't stand the constant hunger. "

=========================

After reading that post of yours, about Dr. Kenyon, my view of her changed. Her diet, as listed above, sounds to me like a very low carb, high fat high protein diet. The " No sweets. No potatoes. No rice. No bread. No pasta. When I say `no,' I mean `no, or not much', " sounds very Atkins-like to me. And when followed by the: " Meat? Yes meat of course " along with cheese and eggs I find myself shaking my head. I eat meat and cheese also, but very much in moderation, rather than bragging about it as she seems to be!

So, as I said earlier, I would love to know the science (published references) supporting the diet described above (especially evidence of extended lifespan) and the logic behind it. Dr. Atkins most likely died of a massive stroke at a weight of 270 pounds. So I find it difficult to have much confidence in anything he ever recommended about diet.

This is of interest to me because my diet is radically different from Dr. Kenyon's, so if she is right, then I am wrong! And if I am wrong I would want to know about it.

Of course if you add sugar (extra calories) to a nematode's diet one would expect the extra calories to shorten lifespan, as we all here realize. So that finding, as stated in that piece you quoted, I do not finding surprising. Most of us around here, I had thought, would agree that adding extra empty sugar calories to ANY animal's diet would be likely to shorten lifespan. But, imo, that is hardly evidence proving we should all adopt a high fat, high protein, Atkins diet. It seems to me like yet more evidence, as if we needed more evidence, that that we should be restricting calories - especially empty calories - while maintaining adequate nutrition.

Does this make my position on this issue any clearer?

The first part of the post of mine to which you replied is attached next, below.

Rodney.

On 12/13/09 4:51 PM, " perspect1111 " <perspect1111@... <mailto:perspect1111%40> > wrote:

Thanks Andre. Good paper.

The PubMed ID number is: 19956092

As you note, quite a number of issues are raised by this paper.

Much of this work seems to be in agreement with the work being done in Spain on the aging rate of mice by Sanz, Caro, Barja, et al. Their experiments have found that 'protein only' restriction accounts for all the reduction in aging rate produced by CR. But they found mice restricted in 'methionine only' also had a slowed rate of aging, but to an extent less than the mice restricted in all amino acids - not quite the same finding as Partridge's.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Hi folks:

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > I was taking a snoop at Jeff Novick's Facebook page and came across

> an

> >>>> > >> interesting post containing information I had not seen previously,

> >>>> > >> quantifying annual deaths in the US from preventable causes. The

> >>>> numbers

> >>>> > >> were based on data from 2005.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > In that year here are the number of deaths believed to have

> >>>>> resulted from

> >>>> > >> each of the following causes, out of 2.5 million total deaths:

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > 467,000 --- Tobacco smoking.

> >>>>> > >> > 395,000 --- Hypertension.

> >>>>> > >> > 216,000 --- Excessive body weight.

> >>>>> > >> > 191,000 --- Inadequate exercise.

> >>>>> > >> > 102,000 --- Excessive salt intake.

> >>>>> > >> > 84,000 --- Low intake of beneficial fat from fish.

> >>>>> > >> > 82,000 --- Intake of trans fatty acids.

> >>>>> > >> > 64,000 --- Excessive alcohol intake.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > I found this interesting since only the body weight issue is >>>>>

> directly

> >>>> > >> related to CR. So this list provides, at least for me, a helpful

> >>>> overview of

> >>>> > >> the things I really ought to be doing in addition to CR. On the

> >>>> question of

> >>>> > >> alcohol, the study found that, at least for the population as a whole

> the

> >>>> > >> well known benefits were outweighed by the disadvantages.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Of course almost all of us here have long realized these are health

> >>>>> issues.

> >>>> > >> And no doubt have adapted our lives accordingly. But it is nice to

> see

> >>>> > >> numbers attached to them to give some idea of their relative

> >>>> importance. For

> >>>> > >> example, I had not realized the fish fats EPA and DHA to be as

> >>>> significant as

> >>>> > >> this study has found.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Source:

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > " The preventable causes of death in the United States: comparative

> risk

> >>>> > >> assessment of dietary, lifestyle, and metabolic risk factors. "

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Danaei G, Ding EL, Mozaffarian D, B, Rehm J, Murray CJ,

> >>>>> Ezzati M.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > PLoS Med. 2009 Apr 28;6(4):e1000058. Epub 2009 Apr 28.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > PMID: 19399161

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > [Thanks Jeff!]

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>>>> > >> > Rodney.

> >>>>> > >> >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > >

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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