Re: Discussion on medical mariuana

[Guest guest]

Some of us already understand the miracles of mary jane, :-) and the downsides :-( . Not a great recreational drug during the week for 9 to 5'rs since it doesn't clear the body as quickly as ethyl. If you have a job or life that requires your sharp full attention avoid daily dosing (with pot). While perhaps useful for people on chemotherapy with diminished appetites, the general population does not appear to need appetite stimulation. :-) Just like any psycho-active compound there are pros and cons. There is a big push to "leagilze-it" (probably happen in California first). Like prohibition and alcohol the criminal behavior surrounding it may be worse than the negative effects of the drug on society. Mexico just fired 10% of their police force because they failed lie detector tests. Illegal drug trafficking is the money source fueling that much illegality and violence. The US is the obvious customer for all those illegal drugs. If legalizing it saves Mexico it is probably worth the social costs. While there will still be other illegal drugs to keep that business going. Maybe we should legalize heroin to give Afghanistan a cash crop to help stabilize their central government. Now the bad guys there get the drug profits. Sorry if this sounds political, I don't mean it to. JRps: "Dopey" was one of Snow Whites buddies, this stuff has been lurking around in the sub culture for a while. On Sep 1, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Francesca Skelton wrote:

Diane Rehm (NPR) is currently discussing this controversial subject. Marijuana is touted as truly a “miracle” drug for many conditions.

If you miss this discussion you can listen to it later at: http://thedianerehmshow.org/

[Guest guest]

District of Columbia and 17 states have already legalized it for medicinal purposes. I recommend listening to the program. I had no idea it had benefits for so many ailments.

One of the reasons discussed for earlier legalization is the blocking by drug firms and others who would lose money.

On 9/1/10 12:35 PM, " john roberts " <robertsjohnh@...> wrote:

Some of us already understand the miracles of mary jane, :-) and the downsides :-( . Not a great recreational drug during the week for 9 to 5'rs since it doesn't clear the body as quickly as ethyl. If you have a job or life that requires your sharp full attention avoid daily dosing (with pot).

While perhaps useful for people on chemotherapy with diminished appetites, the general population does not appear to need appetite stimulation. :-)

Just like any psycho-active compound there are pros and cons.

There is a big push to " leagilze-it " (probably happen in California first). Like prohibition and alcohol the criminal behavior surrounding it may be worse than the negative effects of the drug on society. Mexico just fired 10% of their police force because they failed lie detector tests. Illegal drug trafficking is the money source fueling that much illegality and violence. The US is the obvious customer for all those illegal drugs.

If legalizing it saves Mexico it is probably worth the social costs. While there will still be other illegal drugs to keep that business going. Maybe we should legalize heroin to give Afghanistan a cash crop to help stabilize their central government. Now the bad guys there get the drug profits.

Sorry if this sounds political, I don't mean it to.

JR

ps: " Dopey " was one of Snow Whites buddies, this stuff has been lurking around in the sub culture for a while.

On Sep 1, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Francesca Skelton wrote:

Diane Rehm (NPR) is currently discussing this controversial subject. Marijuana is touted as truly a “miracle” drug for many conditions.

If you miss this discussion you can listen to it later at: http://thedianerehmshow.org/

[Guest guest]

On 9/1/2010 1:01 PM, Francesca Skelton wrote:

District of Columbia and 17

states have already legalized it for medicinal

purposes. I recommend listening to the program. I

had no idea it had benefits for so many ailments.

The medical literature lacks any serious research on the

long-term effects of pot -- it's difficult and expensive to do such

research, all the more so because people aren't going to be

entirely forthcoming about illegal activities that they do. I think

also there's a lingering feeling of distrust about alarmist

propaganda about pot that came out in the 1960s.

Pot is very safe acutely. Unlike depressants, life-threatening

overdoses are unheard of. It's certainly possible to smoke enough

to feel uncomfortable, and to eat enough to have an unpleasant

experience and to be temporarily incapacitated, but such an episode

does not obvious harm once the THC washes out of your system.

Unlike the 60's, something is now know about the mechanism of

action and receptor system that pot interacts with. Cannabinoid

receptors exist in the brain, but they're also widespread in the

body, and they seem to have something to do with the inflammation

that's associated with heart disease -- in particular, it's believed

that fat tissue has hormonal effects that act through the

cannabinoid receptor system that promote the 'metabolic syndrome'.

The drug Rimonabant was a CB1 receptor blocker that was expected

to reduce hunger, food consumption and weight, but was expected to

have an effect on suppressing the 'metabolic syndrome' (heart

disease, diabetes) above and beyond what would be expected from the

weight loss. The drug was approved in the E.U. but held up in the

U.S. because early studies showed that about 20% of people receiving

Rimonabant experienced depression. Post-marketing experience in the

E.U. showed an association with psychiatric problems and suicide,

and the drug was taken off the market.

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if the use of marijuana

promotes the metabolic syndrome... But looking in the literature I

don't see any real research on this. However, we all know that

many people experience improved mood from using pot, conversely to

those who experience a worsening of mood with Rimonabant.

Pot is known to raise heart rate and blood pressure, and I'd

advise anybody who has high blood pressure to avoid substances of

any kind that raise it... That's common sense.

As for "effects on learning and memory" it's hard to know what

this means. The same label is applied to benzodiazepine drugs,

which are widely prescribed and widely used illegal. I've known

people who take benzodiazepine chronically for anxiety and I get the

feeling that they "grow older without growing up"; rather than

using anxiety as a signal that would lead them to improving

situations in their life, they often seem to "drift" in areas of

relationships, career and education. I've also noticed that BZ

users seem to get into accidents at a high rate. That said, all of

the chronic BZ users I know had a pre-existing mental illness that

was crippling, and the use of the drugs gave them considerable

relief. I know a few pot users too, and it's much less clear that

use of pot has such a strongly destructive effect: none of them are

world-class high performers, but quite a few are successful

householders.

From having watched my friends for two decades, I've come to

believe in the "gateway drug" theory. I've seen more than one pot

user get a large prescription for opiate medications and ultimately

turn to the black market for opiates, develop an addiction

problem, and sometimes turn to seriously criminal behavior. I

don't know if pot chemically/neurologically makes people

vulnerable, but I do know that a person who's jumped the

psychological barrier of buying one drug illegally is all the more

likely to use another.

The psychological effects of pot vary greatly from user to

user. Some people smoke pot and find it helps them go to sleep;

other people find that smoking pot keeps them awake. The literature

on "driving under the influence of marijuana" is remarkably

ambiguous. There's no doubt that people make more mistakes when

they are stoned. On the other hand, many stoned drivers report

that they're more careful driving with stoned because they're very

aware of their intoxication. I know one, for instance, who drives

quite a slower when stoned -- he drives about 40 mph at night on

country highways at night when stoned (the speed recommended by the

National Safety Council) which drives his wife and other drivers

nuts!

Then there's the whole comparison with tobacco: pot smoke

contains carcinogens which go in smoker's lungs and diffuse through

the rest of the body. On the other hand, nicotine itself is

responsible for some of the danger of tobacco... Nicotine is a

powerful vasoconstrictor which directly leads to heart attacks,

strokes, and just can't be good for capillary beds throughout the

body.

Overall, I don't think pot is good for your longevity, but

certainly people enjoy it, and some will even say it improves their

outlook on life and relationships with other people.

[Guest guest]

Hi : of course anecdotes about people we know or even our own experiences are just that – anecdotal and not scientific.

We would need studies to see if MJ leads to longer or shorter life. But if a person is in pain or has one of the ailments mentioned in the original discussion I posted, most people will use whatever medicines (pot or whatever else) they need to ease symptoms. Right now many medicines approved by prescription have multiple side effects and for all we know could shorten life.

So other prescription medications are often far from ideal as well.

I recommend listening to the Diane Rehm discussion for an eye- opener.

On 9/3/10 11:55 AM, " A Houle " <paul@...> wrote:

On 9/1/2010 1:01 PM, Francesca Skelton wrote:

District of Columbia and 17 states have already legalized it for medicinal purposes. I recommend listening to the program. I had no idea it had benefits for so many ailments.

The medical literature lacks any serious research on the long-term effects of pot -- it's difficult and expensive to do such research, all the more so because people aren't going to be entirely forthcoming about illegal activities that they do. I think also there's a lingering feeling of distrust about alarmist propaganda about pot that came out in the 1960s.

Pot is very safe acutely. Unlike depressants, life-threatening overdoses are unheard of. It's certainly possible to smoke enough to feel uncomfortable, and to eat enough to have an unpleasant experience and to be temporarily incapacitated, but such an episode does not obvious harm once the THC washes out of your system.

Unlike the 60's, something is now know about the mechanism of action and receptor system that pot interacts with. Cannabinoid receptors exist in the brain, but they're also widespread in the body, and they seem to have something to do with the inflammation that's associated with heart disease -- in particular, it's believed that fat tissue has hormonal effects that act through the cannabinoid receptor system that promote the 'metabolic syndrome'.

The drug Rimonabant was a CB1 receptor blocker that was expected to reduce hunger, food consumption and weight, but was expected to have an effect on suppressing the 'metabolic syndrome' (heart disease, diabetes) above and beyond what would be expected from the weight loss. The drug was approved in the E.U. but held up in the U.S. because early studies showed that about 20% of people receiving Rimonabant experienced depression. Post-marketing experience in the E.U. showed an association with psychiatric problems and suicide, and the drug was taken off the market.

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if the use of marijuana promotes the metabolic syndrome... But looking in the literature I don't see any real research on this. However, we all know that many people experience improved mood from using pot, conversely to those who experience a worsening of mood with Rimonabant.

Pot is known to raise heart rate and blood pressure, and I'd advise anybody who has high blood pressure to avoid substances of any kind that raise it... That's common sense.

As for " effects on learning and memory " it's hard to know what this means. The same label is applied to benzodiazepine drugs, which are widely prescribed and widely used illegal. I've known people who take benzodiazepine chronically for anxiety and I get the feeling that they " grow older without growing up " ; rather than using anxiety as a signal that would lead them to improving situations in their life, they often seem to " drift " in areas of relationships, career and education. I've also noticed that BZ users seem to get into accidents at a high rate. That said, all of the chronic BZ users I know had a pre-existing mental illness that was crippling, and the use of the drugs gave them considerable relief. I know a few pot users too, and it's much less clear that use of pot has such a strongly destructive effect: none of them are world-class high performers, but quite a few are successful householders.

From having watched my friends for two decades, I've come to believe in the " gateway drug " theory. I've seen more than one pot user get a large prescription for opiate medications and ultimately turn to the black market for opiates, develop an addiction problem, and sometimes turn to seriously criminal behavior. I don't know if pot chemically/neurologically makes people vulnerable, but I do know that a person who's jumped the psychological barrier of buying one drug illegally is all the more likely to use another.

The psychological effects of pot vary greatly from user to user. Some people smoke pot and find it helps them go to sleep; other people find that smoking pot keeps them awake. The literature on " driving under the influence of marijuana " is remarkably ambiguous. There's no doubt that people make more mistakes when they are stoned. On the other hand, many stoned drivers report that they're more careful driving with stoned because they're very aware of their intoxication. I know one, for instance, who drives quite a slower when stoned -- he drives about 40 mph at night on country highways at night when stoned (the speed recommended by the National Safety Council) which drives his wife and other drivers nuts!

Then there's the whole comparison with tobacco: pot smoke contains carcinogens which go in smoker's lungs and diffuse through the rest of the body. On the other hand, nicotine itself is responsible for some of the danger of tobacco... Nicotine is a powerful vasoconstrictor which directly leads to heart attacks, strokes, and just can't be good for capillary beds throughout the body.

Overall, I don't think pot is good for your longevity, but certainly people enjoy it, and some will even say it improves their outlook on life and relationships with other people.

[Guest guest]

I seriously doubt that marijuana has any life extension properties. My personal one rat experiments suggest that it isn't dangerous (besides being illegal). Like any psychoactive agent it can be useful if it normalizes an individual (like making a cancer patient on chemo hungry so they'll eat), less useful if the person is already inclined to over eat and it makes them even more likely to binge. It is perhaps useful for us to be aware of how this can enhance hunger for those of us who already struggle with our appetite . The rest of this is good general interest information but pretty much off topic for CR. A lot of the recent publicity and interest is related to an active campaign to change the laws prohibiting it for non-medical use. JROn Sep 3, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Francesca Skelton wrote:

Hi : of course anecdotes about people we know or even our own experiences are just that – anecdotal and not scientific.

We would need studies to see if MJ leads to longer or shorter life. But if a person is in pain or has one of the ailments mentioned in the original discussion I posted, most people will use whatever medicines (pot or whatever else) they need to ease symptoms. Right now many medicines approved by prescription have multiple side effects and for all we know could shorten life.

So other prescription medications are often far from ideal as well.

I recommend listening to the Diane Rehm discussion for an eye- opener.

On 9/3/10 11:55 AM, " A Houle" <paul@...> wrote:

On 9/1/2010 1:01 PM, Francesca Skelton wrote:

District of Columbia and 17 states have already legalized it for medicinal purposes. I recommend listening to the program. I had no idea it had benefits for so many ailments.

The medical literature lacks any serious research on the long-term effects of pot -- it's difficult and expensive to do such research, all the more so because people aren't going to be entirely forthcoming about illegal activities that they do. I think also there's a lingering feeling of distrust about alarmist propaganda about pot that came out in the 1960s.

Pot is very safe acutely. Unlike depressants, life-threatening overdoses are unheard of. It's certainly possible to smoke enough to feel uncomfortable, and to eat enough to have an unpleasant experience and to be temporarily incapacitated, but such an episode does not obvious harm once the THC washes out of your system.

Unlike the 60's, something is now know about the mechanism of action and receptor system that pot interacts with. Cannabinoid receptors exist in the brain, but they're also widespread in the body, and they seem to have something to do with the inflammation that's associated with heart disease -- in particular, it's believed that fat tissue has hormonal effects that act through the cannabinoid receptor system that promote the 'metabolic syndrome'.

The drug Rimonabant was a CB1 receptor blocker that was expected to reduce hunger, food consumption and weight, but was expected to have an effect on suppressing the 'metabolic syndrome' (heart disease, diabetes) above and beyond what would be expected from the weight loss. The drug was approved in the E.U. but held up in the U.S. because early studies showed that about 20% of people receiving Rimonabant experienced depression. Post-marketing experience in the E.U. showed an association with psychiatric problems and suicide, and the drug was taken off the market.

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if the use of marijuana promotes the metabolic syndrome... But looking in the literature I don't see any real research on this. However, we all know that many people experience improved mood from using pot, conversely to those who experience a worsening of mood with Rimonabant.

Pot is known to raise heart rate and blood pressure, and I'd advise anybody who has high blood pressure to avoid substances of any kind that raise it... That's common sense.

As for "effects on learning and memory" it's hard to know what this means. The same label is applied to benzodiazepine drugs, which are widely prescribed and widely used illegal. I've known people who take benzodiazepine chronically for anxiety and I get the feeling that they "grow older without growing up"; rather than using anxiety as a signal that would lead them to improving situations in their life, they often seem to "drift" in areas of relationships, career and education. I've also noticed that BZ users seem to get into accidents at a high rate. That said, all of the chronic BZ users I know had a pre-existing mental illness that was crippling, and the use of the drugs gave them considerable relief. I know a few pot users too, and it's much less clear that use of pot has such a strongly destructive effect: none of them are world-class high performers, but quite a few are successful householders.

From having watched my friends for two decades, I've come to believe in the "gateway drug" theory. I've seen more than one pot user get a large prescription for opiate medications and ultimately turn to the black market for opiates, develop an addiction problem, and sometimes turn to seriously criminal behavior. I don't know if pot chemically/neurologically makes people vulnerable, but I do know that a person who's jumped the psychological barrier of buying one drug illegally is all the more likely to use another.

The psychological effects of pot vary greatly from user to user. Some people smoke pot and find it helps them go to sleep; other people find that smoking pot keeps them awake. The literature on "driving under the influence of marijuana" is remarkably ambiguous. There's no doubt that people make more mistakes when they are stoned. On the other hand, many stoned drivers report that they're more careful driving with stoned because they're very aware of their intoxication. I know one, for instance, who drives quite a slower when stoned -- he drives about 40 mph at night on country highways at night when stoned (the speed recommended by the National Safety Council) which drives his wife and other drivers nuts!

Then there's the whole comparison with tobacco: pot smoke contains carcinogens which go in smoker's lungs and diffuse through the rest of the body. On the other hand, nicotine itself is responsible for some of the danger of tobacco... Nicotine is a powerful vasoconstrictor which directly leads to heart attacks, strokes, and just can't be good for capillary beds throughout the body.

Overall, I don't think pot is good for your longevity, but certainly people enjoy it, and some will even say it improves their outlook on life and relationships with other people.