Re: Re: A Quick Comment/Question (Insomnia)

[Guest guest]

No, I don't think that epler somehow affects my insomnia. It existed long, long before epler and nocturia makes it worse.Considering this information, is it better to take lorazepam every night instead of going through all of that with completely sleepless nights? NataliaFrom: <jclark24p@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 10:47 PM Subject: Re: A Quick Comment/Question (Insomnia)

I hate to interrupt this conversation, it's been fun to watch, but I don't want to loose some of the thoughts I had. I did some researching how Spironolactone potentilly effects cortisol and posted some studies. I wondered if that might be a factor with insomnia. I found this study which may have some basis. Have a look:

Impact of Sleep and Its Disturbances on Hypothalamo-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Activity

Marcella Balbo, Leproult, and Eve Van Cauter*

Sleep, Chronobiology and Neuroendocrinology Research Laboratory, Department of Medicine, The University of Chicago, Chicago, IL 60637, USA

*Eve Van Cauter: Email: evcauter@...

Academic Editor: Deborah Suchecki

Received December 11, 2009; Accepted March 27, 2010.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902103/?tool=pubmed

"Abstract

The daily rhythm of cortisol secretion is relatively stable and primarily under the influence of the circadian clock. Nevertheless, several other factors affect hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity. Sleep has modest but clearly detectable modulatory effects on HPA axis activity. Sleep onset exerts an inhibitory effect on cortisol secretion while awakenings and sleep offset are accompanied by cortisol stimulation. During waking, an association between cortisol secretory bursts and indices of central arousal has also been detected. Abrupt shifts of the sleep period induce a profound disruption in the daily cortisol rhythm, while sleep deprivation and/or reduced sleep quality seem to result in a modest but functionally important activation of the axis. HPA hyperactivity is clearly associated with metabolic, cognitive and psychiatric disorders and could be involved in the well-documented associations between sleep disturbances and the risk of

obesity, diabetes and cognitive dysfunction. Several clinical syndromes, such as insomnia, depression, Cushing's syndrome, sleep disordered breathing (SDB) display HPA hyperactivity, disturbed sleep, psychiatric and metabolic impairments. Further research to delineate the functional links between sleep and HPA axis activity is needed to fully understand the pathophysiology of these syndromes and to develop adequate strategies of prevention and treatment."

One previous study talked about Spiro's limiting the gene for aldosterone (CYP11B2) and altering its neighboring gene (CYP11B1). I have no conclusion tonight but thought it interesting. Natalia, I don't know if you get the sme effect with Epler.

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> > > Funny how after 5000 years a simple sentence of Buddha is distorted to such extent…He simply said: “Investigate the truth independently.â€

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> > > No wonder it is said: truth is one word but ignorance multiplied it!...or something like that J

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> > > Max.

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> > > Do you remember that:

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> > > Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe only what you, yourself, test and judge to be true.

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> > > Buddha

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[Guest guest]

I ask every patient I see how their sleeping. I think we underestimate our need for sleep and see it as a minor inconvenience.

In my case it is such a personal thing because insomnia, to me, was my number one personal complaint for years. I knew they kept blowing off my blood pressure, as dangerous as it was, and even the low K, but in my mind I HAD to get some sleep....but I couldn't.

I tried everything. Exercise was hard though because I was so sick and sadly, had I known it was the low K and HTN preventing me from even walking up stairs, I think I would have exercised more and I would have fought for better K control. I literally tried everything outside of drinking alcohol or heroin for even just a few hours sleep. And when the thyroid acted up it went from bothersome to critical and dangerous and literally weeks long. When sleep did hit it could be at any time. I don't mean like narcolespy, but I would have to pull over in the middle of the day and sleep. At night - nothing. I could not turn of my brain no matter what. I used some muscle relaxers which did give me a few hours - for a while - and not always, but those had their own issues that caught me off guard.

Sadly, many of us professionals, be it counselors, therapists, doctors. PA's, NP's have all experienced some insomnia and tend to project what we went through onto those in front of us. So when you would say to the doc or whoever, "I REALLY can't sleep!" You'd get a cursory nod and then a "Yeah I went through that in school...blah blah blah....." They always compare it to THEIR SELF and it would make me crazy. It was so hard to explain that I DID NOT SLEEP.

The other side of the coin for us on this list that we share as a group - even though we tend to talk about our rough times (I think this is just a good outlet sometimes to get it off our chest), and many of us have talked about it, is that we ARE survivors, and we are good people, and as dark as it would get, and as long as we had no sleep, as deep as our fatigue got, as foggy headed we struggled through, we dragged ourselves in and smiled and did what we had to do day after day after day

So to others it seemed it couldn't be as bad as we made it out to be. But in hindsight I say for many of us it WAS as bad as it was to us in reality.

So.......I vow to listen better to others (not just professionally) and though I am guilty of it at times of projecting my own issues onto those before me, I will try not just comparing what I went through to them - and while I will argue we are NOT islands per se, our stories are unique to us and only we know how we fell. At least most of us know what it feels like though to be the other side and not listened to.

I can say this. The nocturia for me did cease with good salt control and the tx of the PA and really about as fast as my BP went down (2 doses of spiro). I still have a rough sleep pattern, but it sure is better.

From: Natalia Kamneva <natalia_kamneva@...>Subject: Re: Re: A Quick Comment/Question (Insomnia)"hyperaldosteronism " <hyperaldosteronism >Date: Thursday, January 26, 2012, 12:23 PM

No, I don't think that epler somehow affects my insomnia. It existed long, long before epler and nocturia makes it worse.

Considering this information, is it better to take lorazepam every night instead of going through all of that with completely sleepless nights?

Natalia

From: <jclark24p@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 10:47 PMSubject: Re: A Quick Comment/Question (Insomnia)

I hate to interrupt this conversation, it's been fun to watch, but I don't want to loose some of the thoughts I had. I did some researching how Spironolactone potentilly effects cortisol and posted some studies. I wondered if that might be a factor with insomnia. I found this study which may have some basis. Have a look:Impact of Sleep and Its Disturbances on Hypothalamo-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Activity Marcella Balbo, Leproult, and Eve Van Cauter* Sleep, Chronobiology and Neuroendocrinology Research Laboratory, Department of Medicine, The University of Chicago, Chicago, IL 60637, USA *Eve Van Cauter: Email: evcauter@... Academic Editor: Deborah Suchecki Received December 11, 2009; Accepted March 27,

2010.Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902103/?tool=pubmed"Abstract The daily rhythm of cortisol secretion is relatively stable and primarily under the influence of the circadian clock. Nevertheless, several other factors affect hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity. Sleep has modest but clearly detectable modulatory effects on HPA axis activity. Sleep onset exerts an inhibitory effect on cortisol secretion while awakenings and sleep offset are accompanied by cortisol stimulation. During waking, an association between cortisol secretory bursts and indices of central arousal has also been detected. Abrupt shifts of the sleep period induce a profound disruption in the daily cortisol rhythm, while sleep deprivation and/or reduced sleep quality seem to result in a modest but functionally important activation of the axis. HPA hyperactivity is clearly associated with metabolic, cognitive and psychiatric

disorders and could be involved in the well-documented associations between sleep disturbances and the risk of obesity, diabetes and cognitive dysfunction. Several clinical syndromes, such as insomnia, depression, Cushing's syndrome, sleep disordered breathing (SDB) display HPA hyperactivity, disturbed sleep, psychiatric and metabolic impairments. Further research to delineate the functional links between sleep and HPA axis activity is needed to fully understand the pathophysiology of these syndromes and to develop adequate strategies of prevention and treatment."One previous study talked about Spiro's limiting the gene for aldosterone (CYP11B2) and altering its neighboring gene (CYP11B1). I have no conclusion tonight but thought it interesting. Natalia, I don't know if you get the sme effect with Epler.> > >> > > Funny how after 5000 years a simple sentence of Buddha is distorted to such extent…He simply said: “Investigate the truth independently.â€> > >

> > > > > > > > > No wonder it is said: truth is one word but ignorance multiplied it!...or something like that J> > > > > > > > > > > > Max.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you remember that:> > > > > > > > > > > > Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe only what you, yourself, test and judge to be true.> > > > > >

> > > > > > Buddha> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Try it and see is only way to tell May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Jan 26, 2012, at 10:23, Natalia Kamneva <natalia_kamneva@...> wrote:

No, I don't think that epler somehow affects my insomnia. It existed long, long before epler and nocturia makes it worse.Considering this information, is it better to take lorazepam every night instead of going through all of that with completely sleepless nights? NataliaFrom: <jclark24p@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 10:47 PM Subject: Re: A Quick Comment/Question (Insomnia)

I hate to interrupt this conversation, it's been fun to watch, but I don't want to loose some of the thoughts I had. I did some researching how Spironolactone potentilly effects cortisol and posted some studies. I wondered if that might be a factor with insomnia. I found this study which may have some basis. Have a look:

Impact of Sleep and Its Disturbances on Hypothalamo-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Activity

Marcella Balbo, Leproult, and Eve Van Cauter*

Sleep, Chronobiology and Neuroendocrinology Research Laboratory, Department of Medicine, The University of Chicago, Chicago, IL 60637, USA

*Eve Van Cauter: Email: evcauter@...

Academic Editor: Deborah Suchecki

Received December 11, 2009; Accepted March 27, 2010.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902103/?tool=pubmed

"Abstract

The daily rhythm of cortisol secretion is relatively stable and primarily under the influence of the circadian clock. Nevertheless, several other factors affect hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis activity. Sleep has modest but clearly detectable modulatory effects on HPA axis activity. Sleep onset exerts an inhibitory effect on cortisol secretion while awakenings and sleep offset are accompanied by cortisol stimulation. During waking, an association between cortisol secretory bursts and indices of central arousal has also been detected. Abrupt shifts of the sleep period induce a profound disruption in the daily cortisol rhythm, while sleep deprivation and/or reduced sleep quality seem to result in a modest but functionally important activation of the axis. HPA hyperactivity is clearly associated with metabolic, cognitive and psychiatric disorders and could be involved in the well-documented associations between sleep disturbances and the risk of

obesity, diabetes and cognitive dysfunction. Several clinical syndromes, such as insomnia, depression, Cushing's syndrome, sleep disordered breathing (SDB) display HPA hyperactivity, disturbed sleep, psychiatric and metabolic impairments. Further research to delineate the functional links between sleep and HPA axis activity is needed to fully understand the pathophysiology of these syndromes and to develop adequate strategies of prevention and treatment."

One previous study talked about Spiro's limiting the gene for aldosterone (CYP11B2) and altering its neighboring gene (CYP11B1). I have no conclusion tonight but thought it interesting. Natalia, I don't know if you get the sme effect with Epler.

> > >

> > > Funny how after 5000 years a simple sentence of Buddha is distorted to such extent…He simply said: “Investigate the truth independently.â€

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > No wonder it is said: truth is one word but ignorance multiplied it!...or something like that J

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Max.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Do you remember that:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe only what you, yourself, test and judge to be true.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Buddha

> > >

> >

>