Re: Brain fog and satins

March 15, 2012

Not surprising if you are experiencing brain fog on statins. The FDA recently

issued the following warning:

" â€œThere have been rare post-marketing reports of cognitive impairment (e.g.,

memory loss, forgetfulness, amnesia, memory impairment, confusion) associated

with statin use. These reported symptoms are generally not serious and

reversible upon statin discontinuation, with variable times to symptom onset (1

day to years) and symptom resolution (median of 3 weeks).â€

(Cite:

http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/03/02/the-fda-issues-new-warnings-about-statins)

>

> I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all

know how it feels.

>

> Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencingï¿½symptomsï¿½similarï¿½to what

was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

>

March 15, 2012

Fred -

My cardiologist took me off my statins for a while to rule out any role that it

was playing in my symptoms. The brain fog, muscle weakness/pain and fatigue are

very common side effects of statins. Statins are a must for me - talk with you

dr and see about changing to a different type which may still be effective with

fewer side effects for you. Also my cardiologist recommended CoQ10 Supplements

to reduce side effects - ask your Dr.

>

> I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all

know how it feels.

>

> Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was

felt prior to the treatment of PA?

>

March 15, 2012

Telling me I need to have experienced it to know does not help me understand EXACTLY what is is you feel. Or tell others how u feel or experience BRAIN fog. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 15, 2012, at 19:31, Fred <lrl_computer@...> wrote:

I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

March 15, 2012

Ah yes but no real details or information on has many in statin trials who were on placebos had similar problems.For example how many had a deterioration of their mini-mental status score? Or worsening of their depression score etc. how many had a worsening of these things as judged by a significant other. What other meds and illness did they have. Many on statins are also on BB, sleeping meds, NP MEDS and on antidepressants and PPIS, NSAIDS diabetes meds besides having rusty blood vessels to and in the brain. And not DASHING to try to lower the need for meds. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 15, 2012, at 19:54, msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...> wrote:

Not surprising if you are experiencing brain fog on statins. The FDA recently issued the following warning:

"Ã¢â‚¬Å“There have been rare post-marketing reports of cognitive impairment (e.g., memory loss, forgetfulness, amnesia, memory impairment, confusion) associated with statin use. These reported symptoms are generally not serious and reversible upon statin discontinuation, with variable times to symptom onset (1 day to years) and symptom resolution (median of 3 weeks).Ã¢â‚¬Â

(Cite: http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/03/02/the-fda-issues-new-warnings-about-statins)

>

> I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.

>

> Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencingÃ¯Â¿Â½symptomsÃ¯Â¿Â½similarÃ¯Â¿Â½to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

>

March 15, 2012

And the data that Q10 reduces side effects of statins are?How hard did he push diet?Did he recommend DASH or Ornish or rice diet before trying meds?May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 15, 2012, at 19:57, "lk.barns" <lk.barns@...> wrote:

Fred -

My cardiologist took me off my statins for a while to rule out any role that it was playing in my symptoms. The brain fog, muscle weakness/pain and fatigue are very common side effects of statins. Statins are a must for me - talk with you dr and see about changing to a different type which may still be effective with fewer side effects for you. Also my cardiologist recommended CoQ10 Supplements to reduce side effects - ask your Dr.

>

> I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.

>

> Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

>

March 16, 2012

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17560286

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16449543

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15721028

On 3/16/2012 12:49 AM, Clarence Grim wrote:

And the data that Q10 reduces side effects of statins

are?

How hard did he push diet?

Did he recommend DASH or Ornish or rice diet before

trying meds?

May your pressure be low!

CE Grim MS, MD

Specializing in Difficult

Hypertension

On Mar 15, 2012, at 19:57, "lk.barns" <lk.barns@...>

wrote:

Fred -

My cardiologist took me off my statins for a while

to rule out any role that it was playing in my

symptoms. The brain fog, muscle weakness/pain and

fatigue are very common side effects of statins.

Statins are a must for me - talk with you dr and see

about changing to a different type which may still

be effective with fewer side effects for you. Also

my cardiologist recommended CoQ10 Supplements to

reduce side effects - ask your Dr.

>

> I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain

fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.

>

> Is anyone that is on a satin drug

experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior

to the treatment of PA?

>

March 16, 2012

Since I have never been intoxicated I do not know what it feels like. Can you

put into words what it is like to be intoxicated in a way that I can know what

it feels like?

Much the same way with feeling brain fog. In the report from Wikipedia

There is a Barbara Schildkrout, MD that tells a bit about brain fog.

From Wikipedia

Clouding of consciousness (Redirected from Brain fog)

Clouding of consciousness, also known as mental fog, is a conventional medical

term describing an abnormality in consciousness. The sufferer experiences a

subjective sensation of mental clouding described as feeling " foggy " .

Overview Terms such as Clouding of consciousness or mental fog are too vague for

most practical requirements. More specifically, the condition is an abnormality

in the " overall level " of consciousness that is mild and less severe than a

stupor or coma. Thus, some authors prefer the more objective term " abnormal

level " of consciousness over the subjective term " clouding " of consciousness. In

the 1817 German treatise Verdunkelung des Bewusstseins, Greiner first coined and

pioneered the term clouding of consciousness as the main pathophysiological

feature of delirium.

Although the condition is extremely common, conventional medicine practitioners

are not well equipped to recognize it and tend to mislabel it or " psychologize "

it. Alternative medicine practitioners popularly use the term " brain fog " ;

however there is no mention as to whether they intend the term to be synonymous

with the conventional medical term clouding of consciousness.

Pathology

The precise pathophysiology is poorly understood. However, the general

conceptual model is that of a part of the brain regulating the " overall level "

of the conciousness part of the brain. Various etiologies can " funnel " in on and

disturb this common regulating part of the brain, which in turn disturbs the

" overall level " of consciousness. The key idea here is an abnormality in the

" overall level " of consciousness, referred to also as wakefulness or arousal, as

opposed to an abnormality in specific or focal parts of consciousness. The

contents of the consciousness, referred to also as cognition, are thus disturbed

in a " diffused " or " widespread " or " global " manner as opposed to a specific

manner. Therefore, performance on virtually any cognitive task may be affected;

although this may be difficult to detect and measure precisely.The list of

possible etiologies is said to be " endless " . But some examples are:

Candidiasis

Hepatic failure, which allows toxins from bacteria in the intestine to go into

the bloodstream and poison the brain.

Heavy metals including mercury.

Medications of all kinds.

Thyroid dysfunction

Vitamin B1 deficiency

The subjective experience

Barbara Schildkrout, MD, a board-certified psychiatrist and clinical instructor

in psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School described her subjective experience

of clouding of consciousness, or what she also called " mental fog " , after taking

a single dose of the antihistamine chlorpheniramine for her cottonwood allergy

while on a cross-country road trip. She described feeling " out of it " and being

in a " dreamy state " . She described a sense of not trusting her own judgment and

a dulled awareness, not knowing how long time went by. It is said that sufferers

compare their experience to that of a dream because like in a dream

consciousness, attention, orientation to time and place, perceptions, and

awareness are disturbed. Dr. Barry Friedberg, M.D., a prominent

anesthesiologist, has a piece of photographic artwork depicting what he calls

" brain fog " .

>

> >

> > I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all

know how it feels.

> >

> > Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was

felt prior to the treatment of PA?

> >

>

March 16, 2012

Her is the best way I can describe it. It went away after treatment for PA and came back, to a lesser degree after about 6 months of statins.1: Watching a TV show and forgetting which show I was watching when a commercial came on.2: Driving and having to look at the navigation screen to see what street I was on.3: Turning on the headlights and having the wipers go on. 4: Taking meds and, if someone talks to me, forgetting if I took the meds.Isn't life grand at times. From: Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...> "hyperaldosteronism " <hyperaldosteronism > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 12:36 AM Subject: Re: Brain fog and satins

Telling me I need to have experienced it to know does not help me understand EXACTLY what is is you feel. Or tell others how u feel or experience BRAIN fog. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 15, 2012, at 19:31, Fred <lrl_computer@...> wrote:

I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

March 16, 2012

What Dr Grim wants to know is what do feel in your head. Can you put that

feeling into words that will help Dr understand the feeling?

>

> Â

> >

> >I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all

know how it feels.

> >

> >Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencingÂ symptomsÂ similarÂ to what

was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

>

March 16, 2012

And did your brain fog clear up when he took you off of them?

From: lk.barns <lk.barns@...>Subject: Re: Brain fog and satinshyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, March 15, 2012, 9:57 PM

Fred -My cardiologist took me off my statins for a while to rule out any role that it was playing in my symptoms. The brain fog, muscle weakness/pain and fatigue are very common side effects of statins. Statins are a must for me - talk with you dr and see about changing to a different type which may still be effective with fewer side effects for you. Also my cardiologist recommended CoQ10 Supplements to reduce side effects - ask your Dr.>> > > I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.> > Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior to

the treatment of PA?>

March 16, 2012

Although the high dose of atorvastatin exerted a beneficial effect on the lipid peroxidation in plasma, coenzyme Q content was reduced and heart mitochondrial function was impaired. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22180983 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim And the data that Q10 reduces side effects of statins are? On Mar 15, 2012, at 19:57, " lk.barns " <lk.barns@...> wrote: Also my cardiologist recommended CoQ10 Supplements to reduce side effects - ask your Dr.> > Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

March 16, 2012

I have also just sent a note to Dr. Barbara Schildkrout, MD, to see if she has a questionnaire she has already developed.Good description: to break it down maybe we could use something like:Mental Fog or Brain Fog:When I am in my Brain Fog the following occurs:1. I am in a "dreamy state": enter 1-10 with 1 being no and 10 highest dream state Add details on this issue in your own words.2. I trust my own judgement: Enter 1-10 with 10 being I trust it completely Add details on this issue in your own words.3. I have a dulled awareness: Enter 1-10 as 10 being the most dulled. Add details on this issue in your own words.4. I do now know how long time went by: Enter 1-10 with 10 I lost all track of time. Add details on this issue in your own words.5. My attention is disturbed: 1-10 1 none 10 max Add details on this issue in your own words.6. My orientation to time is disturbed7. My orientation to place is disturbed8. My perception of what is happening is disturbed. 9. My awareness is disturbed. Begin forwarded message:Barbara Schildkrout, MD, a board-certified psychiatrist and clinical instructor in psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School described her subjective experience of clouding of consciousness, or what she also called "mental fog", after taking a single dose of the antihistamine chlorpheniramine for her cottonwood allergy while on a cross-country road trip. She described feeling "out of it" and being in a "dreamy state". She described a sense of not trusting her own judgment and a dulled awareness, not knowing how long time went by. It is said that sufferers compare their experience to that of a dream because like in a dream consciousness, attention, orientation to time and place, perceptions, and awareness are disturbed.

March 16, 2012

Good and went away again after stopping statins?CE Grim MDOn Mar 16, 2012, at 7:37 AM, Fred wrote: Her is the best way I can describe it. It went away after treatment for PA and came back, to a lesser degree after about 6 months of statins.1: Watching a TV show and forgetting which show I was watching when a commercial came on.2: Driving and having to look at the navigation screen to see what street I was on.3: Turning on the headlights and having the wipers go on. 4: Taking meds and, if someone talks to me, forgetting if I took the meds.Isn't life grand at times. From: Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...> "hyperaldosteronism " <hyperaldosteronism > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 12:36 AM Subject: Re: Brain fog and satins Telling me I need to have experienced it to know does not help me understand EXACTLY what is is you feel. Or tell others how u feel or experience BRAIN fog. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 15, 2012, at 19:31, Fred <lrl_computer@...> wrote: I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels.Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA?

March 16, 2012

These issues listed are related to short term memory it seems.There are standardized tests to quantitate this.Some are on the classic Mini Mental Status Examination and there is one for those in the UK as well that has been online. But I would not do well on it as it wants to know who the Prime Minister is.;-)Used to screen for cognitive problems such as occurs in early dementias. I like to use the "Clock Draw" as a quick screen.CE Grim MDOn Mar 16, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote: What Dr Grim wants to know is what do feel in your head. Can you put that feeling into words that will help Dr understand the feeling? > > > Â > > > > > >I'm sure that most of us have experienced brain fog to some degree so we all know how it feels. > > > > > >Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencingÂ symptomsÂ similarÂ to what was felt prior to the treatment of PA? >

March 16, 2012

Nope - I remain the same

March 16, 2012

Sorry I didn't weigh in earlier. I can remember working intensely from 7 AM

till 7 PM nonstop lobbying in DC in the early 80s & I could barely think

anymore, as someone said, my brain was fried, which described how I felt, like

my brain was not functioning optimally. I think it was sort of like a

precursor to brain fog.

I started feeling brain fog more frequently & for longer periods of time when I

went through menopause. It feels like my brain/thinking slow down to 1/2 or

even 1/4 of the normal speed. In fact, there were a number of times around 2000

that it felt like my brain stopped working. I couldn't remember what I was

discussing in the middle of a conversation, which was embarrassing because I was

a policy analyst & expected to be able to explain & understand complex issues.

It cleared up when I started to take estrogen. (I wonder if there is any

relationship between PA & estrogen or BCPs.)

Nonetheless, I still get brain fog, not as bad as around 2000, but still

disabling. I think PA exacerbated it, & it seems better since I had my Adx last

September. But, I still get it especially after a migraine or if I don't get 9

to10 hours sleep. Sometimes it seems like there's no rhyme or reason for it,

or, alternatively, for feeling clear-headed.

When I have brain fog, it feels like I am drunk, like only 2 of the 6 cylinders

in my brain are working. I can't do things in my head like I normally can, like

add 2 numbers with 2 or more digits. Sometimes I can't put two similar ideas

together. Like others have said, I don't trust myself. My reactions are slower

than normal. When it is really bad, I don't trust myself driving. It helps to

drink a little caffeine, but I pay the price later with a migraine. On days

where my brain fog is especially bad, I don't want to talk to anyone or do

anything that is at all mentally challenging.

I have had 2 neuropysch evaluations in 2006 & 2011 & I was told that I score

high in most categories of intelligence for my age & education, but my

processing speed is weak. I haven't had a chance to follow-up from my testing

last year, which showed a few other weak areas, because the low K & PA took all

my energy.

Lucy Sage

Please forgive brevity & typos

Sent from my droid

Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...> wrote:

>I have also just sent a note to Dr. Barbara Schildkrout, MD, to see if

>she has a questionnaire she has already developed.

>

>Good description: to break it down maybe we could use something like:

>

>Mental Fog or Brain Fog:

>

>When I am in my Brain Fog the following occurs:

>

>1. I am in a " dreamy state " : enter 1-10 with 1 being no and 10

>highest dream state

> Add details on this issue in your own words.

>

>2. I trust my own judgement: Enter 1-10 with 10 being I trust it

>completely

> Add details on this issue in your own words.

>

>3. I have a dulled awareness: Enter 1-10 as 10 being the most dulled.

> Add details on this issue in your own words.

>

>4. I do now know how long time went by: Enter 1-10 with 10 I lost

>all track of time.

> Add details on this issue in your own words.

>

>5. My attention is disturbed: 1-10 1 none 10 max

> Add details on this issue in your own words.

>

>6. My orientation to time is disturbed

>

>7. My orientation to place is disturbed

>

>8. My perception of what is happening is disturbed.

>

>9. My awareness is disturbed.

>

>Begin forwarded message:

>

>> Barbara Schildkrout, MD, a board-certified psychiatrist and clinical

>> instructor in psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School described her

>> subjective experience of clouding of consciousness, or what she also

>> called " mental fog " , after taking a single dose of the antihistamine

>> chlorpheniramine for her cottonwood allergy while on a cross-country

>> road trip. She described feeling " out of it " and being in a " dreamy

>> state " . She described a sense of not trusting her own judgment and a

>> dulled awareness, not knowing how long time went by. It is said that

>> sufferers compare their experience to that of a dream because like

>> in a dream consciousness, attention, orientation to time and place,

>> perceptions, and awareness are disturbed.

>

March 16, 2012

Thanks Val for finding this

>

> > Is anyone that is on a satin drug experiencing symptoms similar to what was

felt prior to the treatment of PA?

>

March 16, 2012

Lucy - You have very aptly described exactly the same symptoms I have. I served

for 20 years as an assistant to State court judges handling matters ranging from

death penalty cases to multimillion dollar anti-trust cases. With your

experience, you understand the wide range of knowledge and precision required.

As someone who previously was known for the ability to explain complicated

issues with clarity and brevity, it is more that frustrating to search for words

and ramble through a simple explanation. The skills are still there but the

path to them is very murky.

>

> >I have also just sent a note to Dr. Barbara Schildkrout, MD, to see if

> >she has a questionnaire she has already developed.

> >

> >Good description: to break it down maybe we could use something like:

> >

> >Mental Fog or Brain Fog:

> >

> >When I am in my Brain Fog the following occurs:

> >

> >1. I am in a " dreamy state " : enter 1-10 with 1 being no and 10

> >highest dream state