Theoretical discussions of excess Aldo and excess cortisone.

[Guest guest]

I have retiled this thread. For now i think the issue should be considered of theoretical interest so many may want to avoid these discussions. In the old days Conn required urine collections for 17 OH and 17 Keto steroids be normal before the DX cOULD BE made . This was dropped after many many had this done and one had abnormalities at least with methods available then. It is of interest from a research point if view how does it help us take better care of those with PA. Unless one tumor is making excess also and another excess cortisol and they are on different sides. I would guess we would take out the also one first and then observe. Another concern is there something that is kicking both aldo and cortisol. We have suggested that intermittent stress bombarding the adrenal with ACTH might be a culprit. Indeed this could also lead to eventual adrenal growth that be be ones autonomous. Has been termed tertiary aldo if drive was thought to be renin for the Aldo. So the growth becomes independent of the stimulus and the growth takes over. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 1, 2012, at 13:12, <jclark24p@...> wrote:

This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

"Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with subclinical CushingÂfs syndrome"

Source: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

Â@

The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

[Guest guest]

Once you read a few research studies you soon learn that every one has there own

opinions on what is the best treatment for X disease. They can't all be right.

Nor do we all respond to the same treatment for the same DX.

>

> > This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I

have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access

to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

> >

> >

> >

> > " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical CushingÂfs syndrome "

> >

> > Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> >

> > Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> >

> > Â@

> >

> > The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8

PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum

potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as

well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12

patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey , I can get full access through the college so if you want a specific paper, don't pay for it. Email me, I'll get it and then just email it back to you! No problem.

It "seems" sometimes - I never looked at it statistically, of course, there is a lot on here who report the high cortisol/PA twins in their lives who come from high adrenaline backgrounds, like medicine, military, etc. Wonder if there is ever some connection to those when they leave the field or professions like they burned them out, the adrenals that is. I have so many former medic friends who are still young, yet really suffer from adrenal-fatigue-like issues (not really ptsd either), and complaints, yet often don't have anything clearly diagnosed. I know the psych ramifications those professions could have on us, but I am just musing a bit

This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

"Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with subclinical Cushingfs syndrome"

Source: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

@

The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

[Guest guest]

Hey , I can get full access through the college so if you want a specific paper, don't pay for it. Email me, I'll get it and then just email it back to you! No problem.

It "seems" sometimes - I never looked at it statistically, of course, there is a lot on here who report the high cortisol/PA twins in their lives who come from high adrenaline backgrounds, like medicine, military, etc. Wonder if there is ever some connection to those when they leave the field or professions like they burned them out, the adrenals that is. I have so many former medic friends who are still young, yet really suffer from adrenal-fatigue-like issues (not really ptsd either), and complaints, yet often don't have anything clearly diagnosed. I know the psych ramifications those professions could have on us, but I am just musing a bit

This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

"Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with subclinical Cushingfs syndrome"

Source: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

@

The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

[Guest guest]

Hey , I can get full access through the college so if you want a specific paper, don't pay for it. Email me, I'll get it and then just email it back to you! No problem.

It "seems" sometimes - I never looked at it statistically, of course, there is a lot on here who report the high cortisol/PA twins in their lives who come from high adrenaline backgrounds, like medicine, military, etc. Wonder if there is ever some connection to those when they leave the field or professions like they burned them out, the adrenals that is. I have so many former medic friends who are still young, yet really suffer from adrenal-fatigue-like issues (not really ptsd either), and complaints, yet often don't have anything clearly diagnosed. I know the psych ramifications those professions could have on us, but I am just musing a bit

This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

"Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with subclinical Cushingfs syndrome"

Source: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

@

The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

[Guest guest]

, If I was going to look into this, and I'm Not, I would look at the

biologicl clock (internal circadian timing). It would seem to be a major issue

to me since I presume there are various shifts and often EMT's serve on call and

need to go 0 to 100 on a moments notice. And the stress of the job once you get

there!

I discussed this with a doctor back in 2002 after my first sleep study. (We

were talking about how it affected a bus driver on a variable schedule!) Shift

work is bad enough but add in on-call emergency (and maybe a kid or 7), when in

hell did you sleep! (I'm not talking about making them, it's raising them and

you sleeping on a different schedule while still paying attention to their

normal " Daddy Needs " !)

Sounds like a good case of CFS at the minimum!

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

> This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have

found, it is from Japan.  (There are others but I I don't have full access to

them.  Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

>  

> " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical Cushingfs syndrome "

> Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> @

> The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS

patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium

levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as

lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients

with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

>  

>

[Guest guest]

, If I was going to look into this, and I'm Not, I would look at the

biologicl clock (internal circadian timing). It would seem to be a major issue

to me since I presume there are various shifts and often EMT's serve on call and

need to go 0 to 100 on a moments notice. And the stress of the job once you get

there!

I discussed this with a doctor back in 2002 after my first sleep study. (We

were talking about how it affected a bus driver on a variable schedule!) Shift

work is bad enough but add in on-call emergency (and maybe a kid or 7), when in

hell did you sleep! (I'm not talking about making them, it's raising them and

you sleeping on a different schedule while still paying attention to their

normal " Daddy Needs " !)

Sounds like a good case of CFS at the minimum!

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

> This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have

found, it is from Japan.  (There are others but I I don't have full access to

them.  Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

>  

> " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical Cushingfs syndrome "

> Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> @

> The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS

patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium

levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as

lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients

with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

>  

>

[Guest guest]

, If I was going to look into this, and I'm Not, I would look at the

biologicl clock (internal circadian timing). It would seem to be a major issue

to me since I presume there are various shifts and often EMT's serve on call and

need to go 0 to 100 on a moments notice. And the stress of the job once you get

there!

I discussed this with a doctor back in 2002 after my first sleep study. (We

were talking about how it affected a bus driver on a variable schedule!) Shift

work is bad enough but add in on-call emergency (and maybe a kid or 7), when in

hell did you sleep! (I'm not talking about making them, it's raising them and

you sleeping on a different schedule while still paying attention to their

normal " Daddy Needs " !)

Sounds like a good case of CFS at the minimum!

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

> This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have

found, it is from Japan.  (There are others but I I don't have full access to

them.  Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

>  

> " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical Cushingfs syndrome "

> Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> @

> The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS

patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium

levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as

lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients

with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

>  

>

[Guest guest]

I looked up the word " Theoretical " and feel this discussion is more than theory:

the·o·ret·i·cal & #8194; & #8194;[thee-uh-ret-i-kuhl] Show IPA

adjective

1.

of, pertaining to, or consisting in theory; not practical ( distinguished from

applied).

2.

existing only in theory; hypothetical.

3.

given to, forming, or dealing with theories; speculative.

In fact, I have decided to limit my posts regarding NIH until I can consider

them Fact. I will be happy to answer specific questions or feel free to e-mail

me privately if you want my opinion on something.

.....

>

> > This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I

have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access

to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

> >

> >

> >

> > " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical CushingÂfs syndrome "

> >

> > Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> >

> > Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> >

> > Â@

> >

> > The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8

PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum

potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as

well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12

patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I looked up the word " Theoretical " and feel this discussion is more than theory:

the·o·ret·i·cal & #8194; & #8194;[thee-uh-ret-i-kuhl] Show IPA

adjective

1.

of, pertaining to, or consisting in theory; not practical ( distinguished from

applied).

2.

existing only in theory; hypothetical.

3.

given to, forming, or dealing with theories; speculative.

In fact, I have decided to limit my posts regarding NIH until I can consider

them Fact. I will be happy to answer specific questions or feel free to e-mail

me privately if you want my opinion on something.

.....

>

> > This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I

have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access

to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

> >

> >

> >

> > " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical CushingÂfs syndrome "

> >

> > Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> >

> > Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> >

> > Â@

> >

> > The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8

PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum

potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as

well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12

patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I looked up the word " Theoretical " and feel this discussion is more than theory:

the·o·ret·i·cal & #8194; & #8194;[thee-uh-ret-i-kuhl] Show IPA

adjective

1.

of, pertaining to, or consisting in theory; not practical ( distinguished from

applied).

2.

existing only in theory; hypothetical.

3.

given to, forming, or dealing with theories; speculative.

In fact, I have decided to limit my posts regarding NIH until I can consider

them Fact. I will be happy to answer specific questions or feel free to e-mail

me privately if you want my opinion on something.

.....

>

> > This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I

have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access

to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

> >

> >

> >

> > " Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with

subclinical CushingÂfs syndrome "

> >

> > Source:

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> >

> > Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> >

> > Â@

> >

> > The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8

PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum

potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as

well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12

patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If it was not theoretical then NIH would not be testing it IMHO.May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 1, 2012, at 21:16, <jclark24p@...> wrote:

I looked up the word "Theoretical" and feel this discussion is more than theory:

the·o·ret·i·cal & #8194; & #8194;[thee-uh-ret-i-kuhl] Show IPA

adjective

1.

of, pertaining to, or consisting in theory; not practical ( distinguished from applied).

2.

existing only in theory; hypothetical.

3.

given to, forming, or dealing with theories; speculative.

In fact, I have decided to limit my posts regarding NIH until I can consider them Fact. I will be happy to answer specific questions or feel free to e-mail me privately if you want my opinion on something.

.....

>

> > This is the first report of a study of PA and Cortisol coexisting that I have found, it is from Japan. (There are others but I I don't have full access to them. Will have to get NIH to pay for that if they keep fooling around!)

> >

> >

> >

> > "Clinicopathological features of primary aldosteronism associated with subclinical CushingÂÂfs syndrome"

> >

> > Source: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/endocrj/advpub/0/advpub_K10E-402/_pdf

> >

> > Is 21% too many to miss by trial & error?

> >

> > ÂÂ@

> >

> > The prevalence of PA/SCS was 8 of 38 PA patients (21%) studied. These 8 PA/SCS patients were significantly older and had larger tumor, higher serum potassium levels, lower basal plasma levels of aldosterone, ACTH and DHEA-S as well as lower response of aldosterone after ACTH stimulation than those in 12 patients with aldosterone-producing adenoma without hypercortisolism.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>