Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 :-) Thank you SO much, Judy!! I really needed this today, thank you!!! Re: OT: More to Love?Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 2:31 PM Thanks, everybody. Donna, I'll even go a little further than you did. I think it is fair to make a judgment about people who won't lose weight. (Not those who for medical reasons CAN'T but those who just WON'T.) It does say something about you and what you think of the people who love you if you're not willing to make your own health a priority. I'm all in favor of supporting those who want to improve themselves. I just lose all patience with people who whine about their obesity or poor health even though they have made the choices that made them that way.> >> > oh yeah kitchen nightmares. it was originally a BBC thing he did in britian then brought over here. tell ya the american version MADE tv b/c of how more embarrassing the ppl in america acted over britian. > > > > donna i have to agree we are over bombarded with images of perfection and beauty. while its nice to play dress and be glamorous there is almost no looking at the other side of things and if some magazines do its with such negativity that its hard to see ourselves as "pretty" when celebs with the same "flaws" with get chastize for it in a magazine. > > > > i read one standing line one day about katherine heigel and her "saggy butt". she didn't really have a saggy butt but she is like a kettlebell queen like darcy and i so i took a little offense that this thin woman who can hoist heavy bells with the best of can't be given a positive spin. okay she is not perfect but she is a strong lady to take on such a tough routine from a tough trainer! they sure as heck don't say that! > > > > i have a bit of belly buldge that hates to go away the older i get. its hard to say gosh i am strong i workout hard when i have the body of britney when everybody called her fat.shoot i would have like to have been britney fat LOL she was still in better shape then my abs look now. i have serious self esteem issues b/c i was raised by somebody in the same fashion. never looking on the bright side or the positives or even praising when it was good time too. just always negative negative could be better etc. there are millions like me too! like i said i won't blame media on ALL of it but they have their hands in a big chunk of it. > > > > i give a shout out to all my curvy girls though b/c real men love curves and a woman who isn't afraid to order more then just a light salad on a date. > > > > kassia> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 :-) Thank you SO much, Judy!! I really needed this today, thank you!!! Re: OT: More to Love?Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 2:31 PM Thanks, everybody. Donna, I'll even go a little further than you did. I think it is fair to make a judgment about people who won't lose weight. (Not those who for medical reasons CAN'T but those who just WON'T.) It does say something about you and what you think of the people who love you if you're not willing to make your own health a priority. I'm all in favor of supporting those who want to improve themselves. I just lose all patience with people who whine about their obesity or poor health even though they have made the choices that made them that way.> >> > oh yeah kitchen nightmares. it was originally a BBC thing he did in britian then brought over here. tell ya the american version MADE tv b/c of how more embarrassing the ppl in america acted over britian. > > > > donna i have to agree we are over bombarded with images of perfection and beauty. while its nice to play dress and be glamorous there is almost no looking at the other side of things and if some magazines do its with such negativity that its hard to see ourselves as "pretty" when celebs with the same "flaws" with get chastize for it in a magazine. > > > > i read one standing line one day about katherine heigel and her "saggy butt". she didn't really have a saggy butt but she is like a kettlebell queen like darcy and i so i took a little offense that this thin woman who can hoist heavy bells with the best of can't be given a positive spin. okay she is not perfect but she is a strong lady to take on such a tough routine from a tough trainer! they sure as heck don't say that! > > > > i have a bit of belly buldge that hates to go away the older i get. its hard to say gosh i am strong i workout hard when i have the body of britney when everybody called her fat.shoot i would have like to have been britney fat LOL she was still in better shape then my abs look now. i have serious self esteem issues b/c i was raised by somebody in the same fashion. never looking on the bright side or the positives or even praising when it was good time too. just always negative negative could be better etc. there are millions like me too! like i said i won't blame media on ALL of it but they have their hands in a big chunk of it. > > > > i give a shout out to all my curvy girls though b/c real men love curves and a woman who isn't afraid to order more then just a light salad on a date. > > > > kassia> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 It is a shame these people can't be inspired rather than being jealous. That is such a waste of energy. I enjoy doing dvd's where the women are extremely fit, because that inspires me to keep at it and set more goals. Especially as I get older and see women older than me that are really fit it gives me something to shoot for. Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 It is a shame these people can't be inspired rather than being jealous. That is such a waste of energy. I enjoy doing dvd's where the women are extremely fit, because that inspires me to keep at it and set more goals. Especially as I get older and see women older than me that are really fit it gives me something to shoot for. Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Tell us what you really thought of it, !! ;-) Re: OT: More to Love?> > > I agree, this has been a good "hot topic" thread!> > I am split in two. On one hand I agree with Kassia, our society is overly obsessed with other peoples' weight and maybe this show will in some way glamorize being obese? > > That said, I am in Judy's "fat and fit" category myself. I'm at 210 right now and not happy with this and taking steps to change this. I was at 170 last year. I teach Turbo Kick and can do a Cathe workout. I have slender friends who are winded and done within 10 minutes!> > I have been told by men before in tactful and sometimes not-so-tactful ways that they liked me a lot but that I was too fat for them to date. I understand, you like what you like, but it also bums me out that they supposedly like me that much and this is the one thing that stands in the way. What if I was 140 lbs, they got everything they wanted, then I got in a car accident and lost both of my legs? Would they still love me and stick around or would they split?> > I have also been blessed to have dated men who liked me just the way I was, and what a glorious feeling that is! Men preferring slender women is mostly a North American and European thing, other cultures prefer women with some meat on their bones. > > In short - thank goodness for those men out there who like heavier women and aren't afraid to defy the North American norm or buy into the size 6 and under craze!> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Tell us what you really thought of it, !! ;-) Re: OT: More to Love?> > > I agree, this has been a good "hot topic" thread!> > I am split in two. On one hand I agree with Kassia, our society is overly obsessed with other peoples' weight and maybe this show will in some way glamorize being obese? > > That said, I am in Judy's "fat and fit" category myself. I'm at 210 right now and not happy with this and taking steps to change this. I was at 170 last year. I teach Turbo Kick and can do a Cathe workout. I have slender friends who are winded and done within 10 minutes!> > I have been told by men before in tactful and sometimes not-so-tactful ways that they liked me a lot but that I was too fat for them to date. I understand, you like what you like, but it also bums me out that they supposedly like me that much and this is the one thing that stands in the way. What if I was 140 lbs, they got everything they wanted, then I got in a car accident and lost both of my legs? Would they still love me and stick around or would they split?> > I have also been blessed to have dated men who liked me just the way I was, and what a glorious feeling that is! Men preferring slender women is mostly a North American and European thing, other cultures prefer women with some meat on their bones. > > In short - thank goodness for those men out there who like heavier women and aren't afraid to defy the North American norm or buy into the size 6 and under craze!> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Definitely!!!!! That is so fun!!!!! Re: Re: OT: More to Love? Nothing feels better when you do a workout that USED to be hard and it just doesn't push you any more. These are accomplishments no one can take away from you. I LOVE it:-) Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Definitely!!!!! That is so fun!!!!! Re: Re: OT: More to Love? Nothing feels better when you do a workout that USED to be hard and it just doesn't push you any more. These are accomplishments no one can take away from you. I LOVE it:-) Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 - My mom does this to me all the time and it drives me crazy. She will make comments like "she looks frail like you," or our neighbor is "way too skinny, she looks like you do" Lately it has been muscular arm comments that are very negative. It bothered me a lot more a few years back. She can't just be happy for me because I take care of myself. She is very overweight and has been for a very long time. Now I listen to my doctors and my husband:-) They think I am at a great weight. But I realized one day what matters most is am I comfortable, and I am. We REALLY do have to consider the source when someone starts to insult our body in ANY way. I mean really what normal person would do that? Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 - My mom does this to me all the time and it drives me crazy. She will make comments like "she looks frail like you," or our neighbor is "way too skinny, she looks like you do" Lately it has been muscular arm comments that are very negative. It bothered me a lot more a few years back. She can't just be happy for me because I take care of myself. She is very overweight and has been for a very long time. Now I listen to my doctors and my husband:-) They think I am at a great weight. But I realized one day what matters most is am I comfortable, and I am. We REALLY do have to consider the source when someone starts to insult our body in ANY way. I mean really what normal person would do that? Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fantastic for you for getting to the realization you have, & great point too (your last one)! I'm going to have to remember that one to share with my members! Re: Re: OT: More to Love? - My mom does this to me all the time and it drives me crazy. She will make comments like "she looks frail like you," or our neighbor is "way too skinny, she looks like you do" Lately it has been muscular arm comments that are very negative. It bothered me a lot more a few years back. She can't just be happy for me because I take care of myself. She is very overweight and has been for a very long time. Now I listen to my doctors and my husband:-) They think I am at a great weight. But I realized one day what matters most is am I comfortable, and I am. We REALLY do have to consider the source when someone starts to insult our body in ANY way. I mean really what normal person would do that? Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fantastic for you for getting to the realization you have, & great point too (your last one)! I'm going to have to remember that one to share with my members! Re: Re: OT: More to Love? - My mom does this to me all the time and it drives me crazy. She will make comments like "she looks frail like you," or our neighbor is "way too skinny, she looks like you do" Lately it has been muscular arm comments that are very negative. It bothered me a lot more a few years back. She can't just be happy for me because I take care of myself. She is very overweight and has been for a very long time. Now I listen to my doctors and my husband:-) They think I am at a great weight. But I realized one day what matters most is am I comfortable, and I am. We REALLY do have to consider the source when someone starts to insult our body in ANY way. I mean really what normal person would do that? Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Trish I couldn't agree with you more. So much of it is learned behavior. My mom's family is a VERY interesting bunch:-) and yes, she really was demeaned quite a bit by her mom. I saw a lot of it even when she was an adult and I was growing up. It never stopped. Her mother was a very jealous person and couldn't be happy for her daughters for any of their accomplishments. Although it has been difficult. I have finally gotten to a place where I realize it is a waste of my energy to get mad at someone's comments, so now I more often just feel bad for them that they are so miserable that they feel they have to try to tear others down that way. It took me A WHILE and some therapy to get to this point though:-) Now I know that when someone is really on you about something like your looks, intelligence, background, education, whatever, THAT is the area THEY are most insecure with. That has helped me a lot too. You brought up some really good points. I think it is great you took the time to talk to the kids too and get behind what was causing the behavior! An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Trish I couldn't agree with you more. So much of it is learned behavior. My mom's family is a VERY interesting bunch:-) and yes, she really was demeaned quite a bit by her mom. I saw a lot of it even when she was an adult and I was growing up. It never stopped. Her mother was a very jealous person and couldn't be happy for her daughters for any of their accomplishments. Although it has been difficult. I have finally gotten to a place where I realize it is a waste of my energy to get mad at someone's comments, so now I more often just feel bad for them that they are so miserable that they feel they have to try to tear others down that way. It took me A WHILE and some therapy to get to this point though:-) Now I know that when someone is really on you about something like your looks, intelligence, background, education, whatever, THAT is the area THEY are most insecure with. That has helped me a lot too. You brought up some really good points. I think it is great you took the time to talk to the kids too and get behind what was causing the behavior! An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 i can agree with that , what normal person does that?i have said many times i analyze everything to death. people are my main focus, i am a teacher at our local elementary i work in a cross category classroom with 5-20 students ages 5-12 it varies year to year of course. I have learned by simply watching those around my students that their bad behavior is excused because they are handicapped in one way or another. that's wrong to me, for many, many, many reasons (and if u want to know why i feel this way ask and i will tell u elsewhere trying to keep this short, i know lol this is trisha we're talking about short is impossible). the students were not stopping the bad sometimes outright cruel behavior because they were not being punished and my suprior were against me taking matters into my own hands, but i did anyway, (risky i know we'll see how risky when\if i get called back this year!) i didn't take playtime away send them to the corner or make them write lines. my method was to talk to them. i quickly learned with the few visits with parents and these talks with my students that their bad behavior was learned. i then turned this find to adults and their parents and i found the same even in myself. many of the ways i handle things in life are learned from my parents, babysitters, close relatives, and friends. my mom is an emotional eater that where that came from, my dad will lay a guilt trip on u like no other and u'll feel so low u no longer exist when he's done. i do the guilty trip thing but not as bad b\c i think of my dad and what he does and stop myself cuz i hate it!!! learned behaviours are any behaviour we encounter on a regular basis. like getting a brittish accent after a months visit. ur mom was probably critcized her throughout her life, now she unconsciencly does the same to you. of corse i am not saying oh ur gramma did it to her thats y. no i am saying it's possible and when we can consciously see these ill learned behaviours u can change them and avoid doing the same to ur own children, family and friends. most of the time it's not as bad as criticizing its little things but the little ill behaviors hurt too. TrishaFrom: "snowlily1960@..." <snowlily1960@...> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:47:56 PMSubject: Re: Re: OT: More to Love? - My mom does this to me all the time and it drives me crazy. She will make comments like "she looks frail like you," or our neighbor is "way too skinny, she looks like you do" Lately it has been muscular arm comments that are very negative. It bothered me a lot more a few years back. She can't just be happy for me because I take care of myself. She is very overweight and has been for a very long time. Now I listen to my doctors and my husband:-) They think I am at a great weight. But I realized one day what matters most is am I comfortable, and I am. We REALLY do have to consider the source when someone starts to insult our body in ANY way. I mean really what normal person would do that? Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 i can agree with that , what normal person does that?i have said many times i analyze everything to death. people are my main focus, i am a teacher at our local elementary i work in a cross category classroom with 5-20 students ages 5-12 it varies year to year of course. I have learned by simply watching those around my students that their bad behavior is excused because they are handicapped in one way or another. that's wrong to me, for many, many, many reasons (and if u want to know why i feel this way ask and i will tell u elsewhere trying to keep this short, i know lol this is trisha we're talking about short is impossible). the students were not stopping the bad sometimes outright cruel behavior because they were not being punished and my suprior were against me taking matters into my own hands, but i did anyway, (risky i know we'll see how risky when\if i get called back this year!) i didn't take playtime away send them to the corner or make them write lines. my method was to talk to them. i quickly learned with the few visits with parents and these talks with my students that their bad behavior was learned. i then turned this find to adults and their parents and i found the same even in myself. many of the ways i handle things in life are learned from my parents, babysitters, close relatives, and friends. my mom is an emotional eater that where that came from, my dad will lay a guilt trip on u like no other and u'll feel so low u no longer exist when he's done. i do the guilty trip thing but not as bad b\c i think of my dad and what he does and stop myself cuz i hate it!!! learned behaviours are any behaviour we encounter on a regular basis. like getting a brittish accent after a months visit. ur mom was probably critcized her throughout her life, now she unconsciencly does the same to you. of corse i am not saying oh ur gramma did it to her thats y. no i am saying it's possible and when we can consciously see these ill learned behaviours u can change them and avoid doing the same to ur own children, family and friends. most of the time it's not as bad as criticizing its little things but the little ill behaviors hurt too. TrishaFrom: "snowlily1960@..." <snowlily1960@...> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:47:56 PMSubject: Re: Re: OT: More to Love? - My mom does this to me all the time and it drives me crazy. She will make comments like "she looks frail like you," or our neighbor is "way too skinny, she looks like you do" Lately it has been muscular arm comments that are very negative. It bothered me a lot more a few years back. She can't just be happy for me because I take care of myself. She is very overweight and has been for a very long time. Now I listen to my doctors and my husband:-) They think I am at a great weight. But I realized one day what matters most is am I comfortable, and I am. We REALLY do have to consider the source when someone starts to insult our body in ANY way. I mean really what normal person would do that? Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Kids are awesome, i love my job and what i do, i hate waking up early and i dread it when the last two weeks of vacation lumber ahead but i still love what i do. i am always saying listen to what they are telling u. let them tell crazy stories, and make up things. ask them about their day and listen to what they have to say, look at their faces and you'll see their whole day unravel before ur eyes it's magic. kids are not bad in general. they are not born bad, they are taught wrong. there is no such thing as a bad seed. only bad gardners that plant weed next to their roses. i just want to help and thats the best way i know how. TrishaFrom: "snowlily1960@..." <snowlily1960@...> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:49:47 AMSubject: Re: Re: OT: More to Love? Trish I couldn't agree with you more. So much of it is learned behavior. My mom's family is a VERY interesting bunch:-) and yes, she really was demeaned quite a bit by her mom. I saw a lot of it even when she was an adult and I was growing up. It never stopped. Her mother was a very jealous person and couldn't be happy for her daughters for any of their accomplishments. Although it has been difficult. I have finally gotten to a place where I realize it is a waste of my energy to get mad at someone's comments, so now I more often just feel bad for them that they are so miserable that they feel they have to try to tear others down that way. It took me A WHILE and some therapy to get to this point though:-) Now I know that when someone is really on you about something like your looks, intelligence, background, education, whatever, THAT is the area THEY are most insecure with. That has helped me a lot too. You brought up some really good points. I think it is great you took the time to talk to the kids too and get behind what was causing the behavior! An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Kids are awesome, i love my job and what i do, i hate waking up early and i dread it when the last two weeks of vacation lumber ahead but i still love what i do. i am always saying listen to what they are telling u. let them tell crazy stories, and make up things. ask them about their day and listen to what they have to say, look at their faces and you'll see their whole day unravel before ur eyes it's magic. kids are not bad in general. they are not born bad, they are taught wrong. there is no such thing as a bad seed. only bad gardners that plant weed next to their roses. i just want to help and thats the best way i know how. TrishaFrom: "snowlily1960@..." <snowlily1960@...> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:49:47 AMSubject: Re: Re: OT: More to Love? Trish I couldn't agree with you more. So much of it is learned behavior. My mom's family is a VERY interesting bunch:-) and yes, she really was demeaned quite a bit by her mom. I saw a lot of it even when she was an adult and I was growing up. It never stopped. Her mother was a very jealous person and couldn't be happy for her daughters for any of their accomplishments. Although it has been difficult. I have finally gotten to a place where I realize it is a waste of my energy to get mad at someone's comments, so now I more often just feel bad for them that they are so miserable that they feel they have to try to tear others down that way. It took me A WHILE and some therapy to get to this point though:-) Now I know that when someone is really on you about something like your looks, intelligence, background, education, whatever, THAT is the area THEY are most insecure with. That has helped me a lot too. You brought up some really good points. I think it is great you took the time to talk to the kids too and get behind what was causing the behavior! An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Excellent points, !! Oh, Trish - I loved your post about children!Donna From: snowlily1960@... <snowlily1960@...>Subject: Re: Re: OT: More to Love? Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 1:49 AM Trish I couldn't agree with you more. So much of it is learned behavior. My mom's family is a VERY interesting bunch:-) and yes, she really was demeaned quite a bit by her mom. I saw a lot of it even when she was an adult and I was growing up. It never stopped. Her mother was a very jealous person and couldn't be happy for her daughters for any of their accomplishments. Although it has been difficult. I have finally gotten to a place where I realize it is a waste of my energy to get mad at someone's comments, so now I more often just feel bad for them that they are so miserable that they feel they have to try to tear others down that way. It took me A WHILE and some therapy to get to this point though:-) Now I know that when someone is really on you about something like your looks, intelligence, background, education, whatever, THAT is the area THEY are most insecure with. That has helped me a lot too. You brought up some really good points. I think it is great you took the time to talk to the kids too and get behind what was causing the behavior! An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Excellent points, !! Oh, Trish - I loved your post about children!Donna From: snowlily1960@... <snowlily1960@...>Subject: Re: Re: OT: More to Love? Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 1:49 AM Trish I couldn't agree with you more. So much of it is learned behavior. My mom's family is a VERY interesting bunch:-) and yes, she really was demeaned quite a bit by her mom. I saw a lot of it even when she was an adult and I was growing up. It never stopped. Her mother was a very jealous person and couldn't be happy for her daughters for any of their accomplishments. Although it has been difficult. I have finally gotten to a place where I realize it is a waste of my energy to get mad at someone's comments, so now I more often just feel bad for them that they are so miserable that they feel they have to try to tear others down that way. It took me A WHILE and some therapy to get to this point though:-) Now I know that when someone is really on you about something like your looks, intelligence, background, education, whatever, THAT is the area THEY are most insecure with. That has helped me a lot too. You brought up some really good points. I think it is great you took the time to talk to the kids too and get behind what was causing the behavior! An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I agree so much with what you are saying. We need more people with an open spirit like yours working with children. I used to teach for years too and really enjoyed it. I stopped when I had my kids. Now my oldest daughter is working with kids and she has so much fun. She always has neat stories to tell of the different kids when she comes home from work A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I agree so much with what you are saying. We need more people with an open spirit like yours working with children. I used to teach for years too and really enjoyed it. I stopped when I had my kids. Now my oldest daughter is working with kids and she has so much fun. She always has neat stories to tell of the different kids when she comes home from work A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.