Re: Re: Update on Experience with MMS & Iodine.

[Guest guest]

I'm also interested in this thread because I went through a period of intense pain and swelling in teeth/jaw. It would subside and I would think I was through it, and then it would return. It's been gone for a couple weeks now, but I'm just hoping it doesn't return. I use Lugols iodine but wasn't using it at that time. I quit everything until the pain left. I'm taking lugols again now. I don't think this is connected to the lugols. One of the first things I noticed when starting mms was that it affected my spine. I also get sciatic type pain, not only in legs but up left arm. Head pressure has been ongoing and present long before mms. There are others on lymestrategies list who are experiencing jaw/neck stuff with mms, and I don't think the nerve pain is too surprising either. I've long suspected it was dental work and metal poisoning that pushed me over the edge in the first place, and apparently lyme & co critters especially like places of low circulation like jaws and spine and have an affinity for heavy metals and affect nerves. I've now begun the Cutler metal chelation so am not taking mms. I hope to get back to it, at least on the off days of the C protocol, but right now I'm afraid it would be too much. None of my interpretations are doctor approved. I've given up on doctors. But I'm very interested in your experiences/thoughts on these things.

Naomi

[ ] Re: Update on Experience with MMS & Iodine.

LDAfter reading your post I am wondering if there is a correlation between the MMS and iodine. I haven't had spinal symptoms that you have had but have experienced several of the other along with ear aches and swelling.I have recorded my MMS that I have been taking but haven't recorded the iodine drops and wasn't regular with them. This flare up has happened three times now and I'm wondering if it happens when I add the iodine. I know there are others taking MMS and iodine so there may be another X-factor. I was suspecting possibly teeth but don't know yet.My pain and swelling in the face/ear/sinus/eye was getting to the point I didn't know what else to do so I went to the MD. She wants a cat scan but my insurance won't pay for it unless I go to a specialist and my appointment is next week. In the mean time I have been on traditional antibiotics (which I avoid like the plague) and steroids for swelling. It's been almost two weeks and some of the swelling has gone down and pain has subsided to tolerable level but it hasn't taken the pressure away. I stopped both MMS and iodine during this time because I don't know how it would react with antibiotics. I had gotten up to the 9 drop level of MMS but had to drop back due to herxing. I really didn't want to go to the traditional MD route but don't have enough knowledge as to what to do otherwise.I hope you are able to figure out what is happening with your reactions and please keep us posted. Very curious.Dianne> I had been experiencing the same cervical> spine/shoulders/neck/occipital/head/jaw/face pressure with MMS which I> experienced with all other treatments but when I added the iodine,> pain was added at an alarming level and radiated out further than> usual; the thyroid became exceptionally sore and the pain radiated> down the front of my chest.> > I restarted with just 1/2 tablet of iodine 6 days ago and, although> the response has been much lessened, the same burning type of pain> pulsates at the occipital region and on up through the left side of> the face and head, including the eye. It has been nowhere near the> level it was at the full tablet but I resorted to paracetamol a couple> of times. > > Two days ago I restarted MMS at 1 drop daily and I'm already> experiencing an exacerbation of symptoms. Toxins expelling out> through the skin as is usual for me and today I awoke feeling very> nauseas and fragile. > > I'm also experiencing some palpitations and throbbing in the throat,> which some breathlessness as well. I did try the salt loading for> bromide poisoning with the iodine but my lymphedema swelled up way too> much and is taking time to go down again so I don't see how I'll be> able to add that to my treatment at this time. > I'm not raising either the MMS or iodine until the worst of the> exacerbation calms down a bit.

[Guest guest]

At 12:14 AM 18/04/2008, you wrote: " LD After reading your post I am

wondering if there is a correlation between the MMS and iodine. ..I

hope you are able to figure out what is happening with your reactions

and please keep us posted. Very curious. "

Thanks Dianne. I'm not feeling as bad today as yesterday. The

fragile feeling, palpitations and breathlessness have subsided a good bit.

I definitely believe that combining the iodine and MMS would have

caused an upsurge in exacerbation of my symptoms as they both kill

pathogens, although iodine also provides something the body needs,

which is the reason I'm taking it. My main concern is regarding the

possibility that I'm releasing bromine due to the iodine, which I am

pretty sure would not have happened with the other treatments I've

used (guaifenesin, Marshall protocol, Flagyl, Cholestyramine). I

need to know just how I can deal with the release without causing

such intolerable pain and also it's a problem that I cannot do the

salt loading. However, it's not unusual for me to experience an

exacerbation of my usual symptoms, plus a few other things that only

come with purging treatments. A friend is talking to an iodine

specialist about my symptoms for me to see if he can shed some light

on my experience.

Yes there are others taking MMS along with iodine and actually one of

them advised me to do so, however, most seem to know that both iodine

and MMS may exacerbate our symptoms. It wouldn't surprise me at all

to know that our teeth may be involved as infection finds a home very

easily where the blood doesn't flow well. I totally understand why

you've resorted to an MD, abx and steroids although I would avoid

steroids myself. Have you thought of staying at a good bit lower

than a 9 drop dose of MMS? I think some of us just cannot race to

the high doses, due perhaps to a lot of damage already done to our

bodies. That's not to say that I think that the damage is permanent

because my understanding of life is that we can heal anything. I

just think we need to take it more gently. That's hard for me to do

because I'm often impatient with myself. This has been a hard lesson

but I'm learning it, thus the reason I say I'm staying at these doses

of MMS and iodine till things settle right back down and I feel

capable of raising just a tad again. Also, I've sent all my research

to my doc so she can help me keep abreast of the issues with

me. She's coming to see me soon to teach my daughter how to give me

B12 injections. She's also bringing her Zen chi machine to show me

with the idea that it might be something I'd consider for myself,

plus we'll do some reiki as usual.

I look forward to hearing how you are Dianne so please keep us informed.

I'm envisioning healing for all of us......LD

[Guest guest]

Dianne and Leithal

MMS provides chlorine which is a halogen. Halogens can interact at times

with other halogens. In this instance, Chlorine with Iodine, but not Iodine

with Chlorine. The halogen displacement law explains this.

Using MMS will reduce the amount of iodine that is available for your body.

I am not a doctor so I am not advising you in any way.

Phil

Re: [ ] Re: Update on Experience with MMS

& Iodine.

At 12:14 AM 18/04/2008, you wrote: " LD After reading your post I am

wondering if there is a correlation between the MMS and iodine. ..I

hope you are able to figure out what is happening with your reactions

and please keep us posted. Very curious. "

Thanks Dianne. I'm not feeling as bad today as yesterday. The

fragile feeling, palpitations and breathlessness have subsided a good bit.

I definitely believe that combining the iodine and MMS would have

caused an upsurge in exacerbation of my symptoms as they both kill

pathogens, although iodine also provides something the body needs,

which is the reason I'm taking it. My main concern is regarding the

possibility that I'm releasing bromine due to the iodine, which I am

pretty sure would not have happened with the other treatments I've

used (guaifenesin, Marshall protocol, Flagyl, Cholestyramine). I

need to know just how I can deal with the release without causing

such intolerable pain and also it's a problem that I cannot do the

salt loading. However, it's not unusual for me to experience an

exacerbation of my usual symptoms, plus a few other things that only

come with purging treatments. A friend is talking to an iodine

specialist about my symptoms for me to see if he can shed some light

on my experience.

Yes there are others taking MMS along with iodine and actually one of

them advised me to do so, however, most seem to know that both iodine

and MMS may exacerbate our symptoms. It wouldn't surprise me at all

to know that our teeth may be involved as infection finds a home very

easily where the blood doesn't flow well. I totally understand why

you've resorted to an MD, abx and steroids although I would avoid

steroids myself. Have you thought of staying at a good bit lower

than a 9 drop dose of MMS? I think some of us just cannot race to

the high doses, due perhaps to a lot of damage already done to our

bodies. That's not to say that I think that the damage is permanent

because my understanding of life is that we can heal anything. I

just think we need to take it more gently. That's hard for me to do

because I'm often impatient with myself. This has been a hard lesson

but I'm learning it, thus the reason I say I'm staying at these doses

of MMS and iodine till things settle right back down and I feel

capable of raising just a tad again. Also, I've sent all my research

to my doc so she can help me keep abreast of the issues with

me. She's coming to see me soon to teach my daughter how to give me

B12 injections. She's also bringing her Zen chi machine to show me

with the idea that it might be something I'd consider for myself,

plus we'll do some reiki as usual.

I look forward to hearing how you are Dianne so please keep us informed.

I'm envisioning healing for all of us......LD

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

At 11:42 AM 18/04/2008, Phil wrote: " MMS provides

chlorine which is a halogen. Halogens can interact at times with other

halogens. In this instance, Chlorine with Iodine, but not Iodine with

Chlorine. The halogen displacement law explains this. Using MMS

will reduce the amount of iodine that is available for your

body. "

Here is a post from Curezone on this Phil, in which the law is quoted but

there is also some disagreement as to the way it works:

http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=900315#i

I'm a member so am not sure if non-members can read it. I won't

post the whole message here as it feels unethical without

permission. I'll see if I can find the time to ask more about it at

curezone and I'd be interested on any comments you had to make regarding

it too Phil. I really don't want to be counteracting one with the

other.

The response to them both with the lower dosing has lessened further

today.

Thanks.......LD

[Guest guest]

Hi Leithal

The law info you read is from Folk Medicine by Dr D C Jarvis MD and was first published in 1938. The other info would be more recent and comprehensive, but it is not well defined.

I feel the understanding I have fits my experiences with the effects of MgCl2 that I've sprayed on my skin and my losses of iodine that I used both tincture and Lugol's to replace.

The info about Iodine helping to detox Fluorine and Bromine is interesting - pity it gives nothing re Chlorine.

But the question here is: does it contradict what I think lower order halogens are supposed to do. Medical research is so often too vague, and is not always done with an objective that helps you and I.

Quite large amounts of MgCl2 over a few weeks unquestionably increased my need for iodine, and now, when I have better iodine levels I learn that I might be decreasing my fluorine and bromine levels a little. That would be good.

The problem that people who have now to take thyroxine, if they happen to take MgCl2 and they behave like their iodine is too low, is something I've no knowledge of. If anybody can comment please do so for my wife has to take thyroxine. Incidentally, when she tried some iodine tincture her clarity of mind decreased for some hours, just the opposite of the usual iodine effect. (However she is different in more ways than just that. Eg buoyant in water,)

RE your "response to them both" - if that is MMS and Iodine, I guess that the combined dosage just might give you too much to clear away easily. Otherwise I don't see why we should expect them to interact.

Sorry - I don't think this can help you very much.

Phil

Leithal Dame wrote Re: [ ] Re: Update on Experience with MMS & Iodine.

At 11:42 AM 18/04/2008, Phil wrote: "MMS provides chlorine which is a halogen. Halogens can interact at times with other halogens. In this instance, Chlorine with Iodine, but not Iodine with Chlorine. The halogen displacement law explains this. Using MMS will reduce the amount of iodine that is available for your body."Here is a post from Curezone on this Phil, in which the law is quoted but there is also some disagreement as to the way it works:http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=900315#iI'm a member so am not sure if non-members can read it. I won't post the whole message here as it feels unethical without permission. I'll see if I can find the time to ask more about it at curezone and I'd be interested on any comments you had to make regarding it too Phil. I really don't want to be counteracting one with the other. The response to them both with the lower dosing has lessened further today.Thanks.......LD,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Since chlorine, fluorine and bromine all displace iodine, doesn't that make iodine supplementation all the more important if you consume any or all of those three? I don't know if that's bassackwards, but that's the logic I've been operating under. That Curezone post seems to confirm that as well.Leithal Dame <leithaldame@...> wrote: At 11:42 AM 18/04/2008, Phil wrote: "MMS provides chlorine which is a halogen. Halogens can interact at times with other halogens. In this instance, Chlorine

with Iodine, but not Iodine with Chlorine. The halogen displacement law explains this. Using MMS will reduce the amount of iodine that is available for your body."Here is a post from Curezone on this Phil, in which the law is quoted but there is also some disagreement as to the way it works:http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=900315#i

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I've given up tea too because of the fluoride issue, as well as the oxalic acid. I drink mostly herbal tea now, although I've gotten some free Starbucks product so I've been drinking coffee (although like you I don't drink that much of it). I also gave away some loose teas, including some Japanese matcha and Darjeeling. It's better to give it away or throw it out than have it around if you have no intention of drinking it with any regularity again.ransley <ransley@...> wrote: Because of our (wife & I) own

thyroid problems- no Doctor involved, can't prove a thing- I have been steadily studying up on iodine supllementation, adjunctive protocols, and halogen displacement. I sure can't say that other halogens will displace iodine if iodine is available, but the idea sure does make sense that the thyroid gland will grab any available halogen in the absence of iodine. On another group, can't remember where now, info was given about how black and green tea (same plant) have become over-burdened with fluorides because of worldwide pollution. The leaves of the tea bush always were concentrators of flourides, but now it has gotten downright scary. Lifelong tea drinker here, Southern by the Grace of God and started drinking sweet iced tea as soon as I was weaned. Years ago I gave up the sugar and started drinking it straight and unsweet. I gave it up cold turkey, threw it out of the house, all of it, even the fancy expensive stuff. I do not mean to

let anything else interfere with my endocrine system and my efforts at remedying those problems have been paying off BIGTIME in recent weeks. For stimulation there's always coffee but I drink a lot less of that now too. Herbal teas are not included in this problem. Actually, the best stimulant I know of is a teaspoon of cayenne pepper in water. I'm done withtea. Daddybob .

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

At 09:11 PM 18/04/2008, Phil wrote: " But the

question here is: does it contradict what I think lower order halogens

are supposed to do. Medical research is so often too vague, and is not

always done with an objective that helps you and I. " and, " my

wife has to take thyroxine. Incidentally, when she tried some iodine

tincture her clarity of mind decreased for some hours, just the opposite

of the usual iodine effect. "

Thanks for your comments Phil. I agree that med research is often

vague. Add to that my own difficulty in comprehension of such

matters and I'm lost. I've no real idea what is actually occurring

but I do know that the doctor's specialising in the field say that iodine

supplementing will displace the bromine and thus recommend salt loading

(something I'm unable to do) to help remove bromine.

I'm sorry I can't make any knowledgeable comments about your wife's

experience. My clarity is already very low but I didn't detect

further downgrading from the 1 Iodoral daily. I also take T4 but I

only take 50 mcg which is not enough to invoke any improvement in

symptoms. However, in the past I was taking much higher doses of it

and T3. I've taken them alone and together with no improvement in

symptoms before overstimulation. I eventually came to the

conclusion that 'driving' the thyroid is probably not right for me.

I have long leaned to the idea that my body energy may have downregulated

either for a protective reason, due to chemical imbalance caused by

infection or for some other logical reason. Either way, I'm not

sure that it is in my best interest to treat the thyroid, or just the

thyroid. I prefer to work from a deeper basis thus the reason I

always look for some theory or treatment that will address closer to a

bottom line cause. I like MMS because it claims to deal with all

possible pathogens and iodine because it is needed by so many tissues of

the body, not least of all the endocrine system (I have huge [13 cm],

multi, fluid filled, bi-lateral ovarian cysts which I'm hoping iodine ill

address - it's thought that these may be the cause of my lymphedema via

cutting off lymph flow).

Somewhere in my head this seems to make more sense than a bunch of

medications and/or supplements that set out to address one or more

'particular' conditions/dis-eases (e.g., my FMS, IR, lymphedema, obesity,

tinnitus, cysts, sleep apnea, insomnia). However, I do still need

to use some things like CPAP, melatonin, special leggings and low-carb

diet for particular issues and I take some supplements that I think may

also address a wide variety of the body's needs while I'm going through

my health challenges (e.g., Vit C, Silybinin, selenium, chromium,

magnesium, potassium, very occasional Epsom salts liver flushes, I've

also just started fish oil and about to begin an experimentation with B12

injections).

I'm told often by different people wanting to help me that MMS will

oxidise the pathogens and metals but some of us intolerable exacerbation

of symptoms need help with getting them out of the body once that's

achieved, however, I've not been able to ascertain if that's true,

although it makes some sense. Maybe just titrating the dose much

slower is all that is needed. Since I don't know what to believe

regarding this, I'm always looking for a product to aid with this but

everything I've experimented with so far (e.g., NAC, ALA, cholestyramine,

chlorella, etc.) increases my symptoms to intolerable levels. As

well as the advice given about adding binders and doing enemas and liver

flushes, I've been told to do nothing else except take the MMS (that

person thought even Vit C confused the issue), someone else told me to

add the iodine and others suggest various supplements. I appreciate

and take all suggestions made into consideration and utilise those that

feel right for me to experiment with.

The bottom line is that I'm sure the MMS is working and that I need the

iodine. Now it is just a matter or dealing with the exacerbation

both are invoking. At this time I'm taking it very slow so as to

incorporate both. Even at the 1 drop of MMS and 1/2 an Iodoral

tablet, I'm experiencing a huge increase in certain symptoms but I don't

want to go lower with MMS and I'm not sure if such low doses of iodine

have any impact or if other halogens block it completely from landing on

a receptor.

Please forgive my repeating my symptoms/dx/treatments in some of my

messages - it just always seems relevant to whatever I'm

discussing.

Thanks for listening everyone.........LD

[Guest guest]

At 10:43 PM 18/04/2008, Dilworth wrote: " Since

chlorine, fluorine and bromine all displace iodine, doesn't that make

iodine supplementation all the more important if you consume any or all

of those three? I don't know if that's bassackwards, but that's the

logic I've been operating under. That Curezone post seems to

confirm that as well. "

You've hit the nail on the head with this comment in my view

. It is the conclusion I came to after reading a lot about the

halide competition issues when I decided to continue with iodine (even

though the exacerbation of symptoms at such a low dose -1 Iodoral tablet

- were so intolerable). Here are just a few examples of some of the

reading I've done lately regarding iodine and other halogens:

Brownstein states: " " Bromine intake can adversely affect the

accumulation of iodide in the thyroid and the skin.... A high bromine

intake will result in iodide being eliminated from the thyroid gland and

being replaced by bromine.... Ingesting of bromine can cause

hypothyroidism. When there is iodine deficiency present, the

toxicity of bromine is accelerated. Therefore, maintaining adequate

iodine levels is essential when you live in an environment that provides

exposure to bromine. "

http://iodine4health.com/special/nutrients/salt/brownstein_salt.htm

" Might the historical observation of iodism be due

principally to massive amounts of stored bromine leaving the tissues and

entering the bloodstream? Is it possible the apparent adverse

effects of iodine are due almost exclusively due to bromide excretion,

and not enough iodine-alone effects can be

documented to qualify as an " ism " ?

Might the iodism phenomenon be more appropriately called

" bromism " ?

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedetoxsymptomsandstrategies.html

I haven't read this site yet but I will set aside some time to do

so:

Dr Kenezy Gyula Korhaz states that " iodine chelates heavy metals

such as mercury, lead, cadmium and aluminum and halogens such as fluoride

and bromide, thus decreasing their iodine inhibiting effects[vi]

especially of the halogens. Iodine has the highest atomic weight of all

the common halogens (126.9). Iodine is the only option when it comes to

removing these toxic haloids from the thyroid and even the pineal gland

where fluoride concentrates, especially when there is a deficiency in

iodine in the body. In an age of increasing radioactivity and toxic

poisoning specifically with fluoride[vii], chlorine and bromide, and even

mercury, iodine is a necessary mineral to protect us from harm for

immediately these toxic substances will increasingly flow out of the body

in the urine. "

http://alobar.livejournal.com/2297226.html

Abraham, GE, states: " 8. Orthoiodosupplementation increases

urinary excretion of fluoride and bromide, decreasing the

iodine-inhibiting effects of these halides.

http://iodine4health.com/ortho/abraham_ortho.htm

West B, states: " Iodine therapy continues to be highly beneficial to

iodine-deficient people. It is now proven that 50 mgs of iodine

daily detoxifies the body of toxic halide compounds such as bromine and

fluorine­as well as the heavy metals lead and mercury. "

http://iodine4health.com/overviews/clinicians/west_clinician.htm

There's lots more on the net about all this and it's well worth a look to

anyone interested in iodine supplementation and bromide/fluoride

issues.

Thanks.......LD

[Guest guest]

Hi Leithal

A comment over your "general" state. Suppose your magnesium has been low long term - then your body cells may have had calcium calcifying your mitochondria and thus have been reducing your cellular energies. Then your body's opportunity to correct other problems may not have been helped. In such a case ensuring that your magnesium levels in your cells are okay might help you.

The cellular energies matter was highlighted by Mark Sircus in "Transdermal Magnesium Therapy" on page 88 writing about work by Drs Seeger and Budwig proposing that "cancer is mainly the result of faulty energy metabolism in the mitochondria of cells" and "with low magnesium levels is the calcium builds up inside the cells while energy production decreases as the mitochondria calcify". Search around with "calcification" for a while and you too may think that calcification is perhaps a major health problem.

When I read about low magnesium etc I began spraying my own sea water mineral precipitate (dissolved with HCl - which makes them mineral chlorides) regularly and at perhaps 15 to 20 mils a day. It was enough to have some laxative effects. After a week or maybe two or even three I noticed that my energies were a lot better. I have wondered if since Jim Humble says chlorine ions (WHEN active) do something of a clean-up, that maybe after Mg is used from MgCl2 there might here be more active chlorine ions ready to do their own work in cells. Maybe by such a mechanism my cell mitochondria got helped in sufficient numbers to explain my improved energy. Note that I did have to have more iodine after a while - I put this down to halogen displacement of iodine by chlorine from my consumption of MgCl2.

Testing for cellular magnesium is difficult and I've seen it suggested that the simplest check is to try using MgCl2 and see if it makes a difference. "Magnesium Oil" is often similar to what I used - ie with many additional trace-element chlorides additionally to MgCl2 - I say this in case they had some effect on me and my iodine status at that time.

I have told you about this in case you might feel prompted to check to see if you have ample cellular magnesium or not.

However if your general metabolism has you functioning "on all cylinders" you may have everything working well in your mitochondria and cells.

As for iodine ever displacing bromine, I can only say that I have yet to be led to believe that it is possible. (However chlorine will displace bromine.) BTW I have seen nothing about much usage of bromine in foods, so where is the bromine getting into the food chain?

Phil

Re: [ ] Re: Update on Experience with MMS & Iodine.

At 09:11 PM 18/04/2008, Phil wrote: "But the question here is: does it contradict what I think lower order halogens are supposed to do. Medical research is so often too vague, and is not always done with an objective that helps you and I." and, "my wife has to take thyroxine. Incidentally, when she tried some iodine tincture her clarity of mind decreased for some hours, just the opposite of the usual iodine effect."Thanks for your comments Phil. I agree that med research is often vague. Add to that my own difficulty in comprehension of such matters and I'm lost. I've no real idea what is actually occurring but I do know that the doctor's specialising in the field say that iodine supplementing will displace the bromine and thus recommend salt loading (something I'm unable to do) to help remove bromine. I'm sorry I can't make any knowledgeable comments about your wife's experience. My clarity is already very low but I didn't detect further downgrading from the 1 Iodoral daily. I also take T4 but I only take 50 mcg which is not enough to invoke any improvement in symptoms. However, in the past I was taking much higher doses of it and T3. I've taken them alone and together with no improvement in symptoms before overstimulation. I eventually came to the conclusion that 'driving' the thyroid is probably not right for me. I have long leaned to the idea that my body energy may have downregulated either for a protective reason, due to chemical imbalance caused by infection or for some other logical reason. Either way, I'm not sure that it is in my best interest to treat the thyroid, or just the thyroid. I prefer to work from a deeper basis thus the reason I always look for some theory or treatment that will address closer to a bottom line cause. I like MMS because it claims to deal with all possible pathogens and iodine because it is needed by so many tissues of the body, not least of all the endocrine system (I have huge [13 cm], multi, fluid filled, bi-lateral ovarian cysts which I'm hoping iodine ill address - it's thought that these may be the cause of my lymphedema via cutting off lymph flow). Somewhere in my head this seems to make more sense than a bunch of medications and/or supplements that set out to address one or more 'particular' conditions/dis-eases (e.g., my FMS, IR, lymphedema, obesity, tinnitus, cysts, sleep apnea, insomnia). However, I do still need to use some things like CPAP, melatonin, special leggings and low-carb diet for particular issues and I take some supplements that I think may also address a wide variety of the body's needs while I'm going through my health challenges (e.g., Vit C, Silybinin, selenium, chromium, magnesium, potassium, very occasional Epsom salts liver flushes, I've also just started fish oil and about to begin an experimentation with B12 injections). I'm told often by different people wanting to help me that MMS will oxidise the pathogens and metals but some of us intolerable exacerbation of symptoms need help with getting them out of the body once that's achieved, however, I've not been able to ascertain if that's true, although it makes some sense. Maybe just titrating the dose much slower is all that is needed. Since I don't know what to believe regarding this, I'm always looking for a product to aid with this but everything I've experimented with so far (e.g., NAC, ALA, cholestyramine, chlorella, etc.) increases my symptoms to intolerable levels. As well as the advice given about adding binders and doing enemas and liver flushes, I've been told to do nothing else except take the MMS (that person thought even Vit C confused the issue), someone else told me to add the iodine and others suggest various supplements. I appreciate and take all suggestions made into consideration and utilise those that feel right for me to experiment with. The bottom line is that I'm sure the MMS is working and that I need the iodine. Now it is just a matter or dealing with the exacerbation both are invoking. At this time I'm taking it very slow so as to incorporate both. Even at the 1 drop of MMS and 1/2 an Iodoral tablet, I'm experiencing a huge increase in certain symptoms but I don't want to go lower with MMS and I'm not sure if such low doses of iodine have any impact or if other halogens block it completely from landing on a receptor.Please forgive my repeating my symptoms/dx/treatments in some of my messages - it just always seems relevant to whatever I'm discussing.Thanks for listening everyone.........LD

[Guest guest]

Very interesing! I pulled an excerpt out from one of the links to post. Hope you don't mind. I think it is worth emphasizing.

-- Re: [ ] Re: Update on Experience with MMS & Iodine.

At 10:43 PM 18/04/2008, Dilworth wrote: "Since chlorine, fluorine and bromine all displace iodine, doesn't that make iodine supplementation all the more important if you consume any or all of those three? I don't know if that's bassackwards, but that's the logic I've been operating under. That Curezone post seems to confirm that as well."You've hit the nail on the head with this comment in my view . It is the conclusion I came to after reading a lot about the halide competition issues when I decided to continue with iodine (even though the exacerbation of symptoms at such a low dose -1 Iodoral tablet - were so intolerable). Here are just a few examples of some of the reading I've done lately regarding iodine and other halogens:Brownstein states: ""Bromine intake can adversely affect the accumulation of iodide in the thyroid and the skin.... A high bromine intake will result in iodide being eliminated from the thyroid gland and being replaced by bromine.... Ingesting of bromine can cause hypothyroidism. When there is iodine deficiency present, the toxicity of bromine is accelerated. Therefore, maintaining adequate iodine levels is essential when you live in an environment that provides exposure to bromine." http://iodine4health.com/special/nutrients/salt/brownstein_salt.htm "Might the historical observation of iodism be due principally to massive amounts of stored bromine leaving the tissues and entering the bloodstream? Is it possible the apparent adverse effects of iodine are due almost exclusively due to bromide excretion, and not enough iodine-alone effects can be documented to qualify as an "ism" ? Might the iodism phenomenon be more appropriately called "bromism"? http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedetoxsymptomsandstrategies.html I haven't read this site yet but I will set aside some time to do so:Dr Kenezy Gyula Korhaz states that "iodine chelates heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium and aluminum and halogens such as fluoride and bromide, thus decreasing their iodine inhibiting effects[vi] especially of the halogens. Iodine has the highest atomic weight of all the common halogens (126.9). Iodine is the only option when it comes to removing these toxic haloids from the thyroid and even the pineal gland where fluoride concentrates, especially when there is a deficiency in iodine in the body. In an age of increasing radioactivity and toxic poisoning specifically with fluoride[vii], chlorine and bromide, and even mercury, iodine is a necessary mineral to protect us from harm for immediately these toxic substances will increasingly flow out of the body in the urine."http://alobar.livejournal.com/2297226.htmlAbraham, GE, states: "8. Orthoiodosupplementation increases urinary excretion of fluoride and bromide, decreasing the iodine-inhibiting effects of these halides. http://iodine4health.com/ortho/abraham_ortho.htmWest B, states: "Iodine therapy continues to be highly beneficial to iodine-deficient people. It is now proven that 50 mgs of iodine daily detoxifies the body of toxic halide compounds such as bromine and fluorine­as well as the heavy metals lead and mercury." http://iodine4health.com/overviews/clinicians/west_clinician.htmThere's lots more on the net about all this and it's well worth a look to anyone interested in iodine supplementation and bromide/fluoride issues.Thanks.......LD

[Guest guest]

Hi LD Thanks, LD for providing us with your research. I agree with . It IS interesting! Helen susan <ssiegel5@...> wrote: Very interesing! I pulled an excerpt out from one of the links to post. Hope you don't mind. I think it is worth emphasizing. -- Re: [ ] Re: Update on Experience with MMS & Iodine. At 10:43 PM 18/04/2008, Dilworth wrote: "Since chlorine, fluorine and bromine all displace iodine, doesn't that make iodine supplementation all the more important if you consume any or all of those three? I don't know if that's bassackwards, but that's the logic I've been operating under. That Curezone post seems to confirm that as well."You've hit the nail on the head with this comment in my view . It is the conclusion I came to after reading a lot about the halide competition issues when I decided to continue with iodine (even though the exacerbation of symptoms at such a low dose -1 Iodoral tablet - were so

intolerable). Here are just a few examples of some of the reading I've done lately regarding iodine and other halogens:Brownstein states: ""Bromine intake can adversely affect the accumulation of iodide in the thyroid and the skin.... A high bromine intake will result in iodide being eliminated from the thyroid gland and being replaced by bromine.... Ingesting of bromine can cause hypothyroidism. When there is iodine deficiency present, the toxicity of bromine is accelerated. Therefore, maintaining adequate iodine levels is essential when you live in an environment that provides exposure to bromine." http://iodine4health.com/special/nutrients/salt/brownstein_salt.htm "Might the historical observation of iodism be due principally to massive amounts of stored bromine leaving the tissues and

entering the bloodstream? Is it possible the apparent adverse effects of iodine are due almost exclusively due to bromide excretion, and not enough iodine-alone effects can be documented to qualify as an "ism" ? Might the iodism phenomenon be more appropriately called "bromism"? http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedetoxsymptomsandstrategies.html I haven't read this site yet but I will set aside some time to do so:Dr Kenezy Gyula Korhaz states that "iodine chelates heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium and aluminum and halogens such as fluoride and bromide, thus decreasing their iodine inhibiting effects[vi] especially of the halogens. Iodine has the highest atomic weight of all the common halogens (126.9). Iodine is the only option when it comes to removing these toxic haloids from the

thyroid and even the pineal gland where fluoride concentrates, especially when there is a deficiency in iodine in the body. In an age of increasing radioactivity and toxic poisoning specifically with fluoride[vii], chlorine and bromide, and even mercury, iodine is a necessary mineral to protect us from harm for immediately these toxic substances will increasingly flow out of the body in the urine."http://alobar.livejournal.com/2297226.htmlAbraham, GE, states: "8. Orthoiodosupplementation increases urinary excretion of fluoride and bromide, decreasing the iodine-inhibiting effects of these halides. http://iodine4health.com/ortho/abraham_ortho.htmWest B, states: "Iodine therapy continues to be highly beneficial to iodine-deficient people. It is now proven

that 50 mgs of iodine daily detoxifies the body of toxic halide compounds such as bromine and fluorine­as well as the heavy metals lead and mercury." http://iodine4health.com/overviews/clinicians/west_clinician.htmThere's lots more on the net about all this and it's well worth a look to anyone interested in iodine supplementation and bromide/fluoride issues.Thanks.......LD

[Guest guest]

At 08:12 PM 19/04/2008, you wrote: " Hi Leithal A comment over

your " general " state. Suppose your magnesium has been low long

term - then your body cells may have had calcium calcifying your

mitochondria and thus have been reducing your cellular energies. Then

your body's opportunity to correct other problems may not have been

helped. In such a case ensuring that your magnesium levels in your cells

are okay might help you.

Thanks Phil. I've taken a good magnesium supplement for many years

but it never made any difference to my condition overall, although it has

always been a good way to deal with chronic constipation. Then I

read a recommendation about the magnesium oil for topical application a

while back, went on to read a bit from Mark Sircus on the web and

immediately bought some.

I'm using it at more than the 20 mls you use but I'm wondering if it is

the cause of the palpitations & angina I'm experiencing lately.

It's not that various things haven't been a likely causes as it isn't new

(it comes and goes), however, some of the latest bouts are coming not

long after applying the magnesium. Same for leg/night time

cramps. I get them more often without being able to pin it down to

another cause. All this makes me wonder if I'm unbalancing calcium

with too much magnesium.

" cancer is mainly the result of faulty energy metabolism in the

mitochondria of cells " and " with low magnesium levels is the

calcium builds up inside the cells while energy production decreases as

the mitochondria calcify " . Search around with

" calcification " for a while and you too may think that

calcification is perhaps a major health problem. "

A little history: I took guaifenesin for years because of the theory

behind the Guaifenesin protocol; that excess normal constituents such as

phosphates, calcium and oxalates, etc., are blocking ATP due to a genetic

flaw in the kidney tubule that is supposed to release them.

Guaifenesin supposedly unblocks that tubule allowing excesses to be

purged from the mitochondria and thus allowing one's metabolism to

normalise. Guaifenesin works remarkably well for some, to a degree

for others and for various reasons, is unsuccessful for another group,

albeit they do experience the exacerbation of symptoms that supposedly

signals a therapeutic dose has been reached. I fall into the latter

category. I'm not convinced that the kidney tubule flaw, or any

other low metabolic symptom/DX that flows on from that is the bottom line

cause of FMS, but it may be part of the picture. Just as infections

(CWD bacteria/BB/Pcn, etc.) or low magnesium levels may be part of the

picture. In any case, I'm happily trying the topical magnesium to

see if that has any better impact than the oral magnesium I took but I

would like to know more about the dose I need without resort to the hit

and miss method I'm currently using. Will reading more from Sircus

give me a method to detect dose?

" I put this down to halogen displacement of iodine by chlorine from

my consumption of MgCl2. "

My understanding of such things has always been pretty limited but I'm

lucky to be able to comprehend a movie plot these days! What does

this mean to me with taking a combination of MMS (just 1 drop these

days!), topical magnesium oil and iodine (1/2 Iodoral tab) please?

No, I'm not functioning " on all cylinders " but I seem to be

stoical enough at times to keep going longer (cleaning chores for

instance) than I think I possibly can. However, I suffer from that

determination with more body wide pain, cramps and what my doc describes

as angina although tests don't indicate any heart issues. Working

sitting down at the computer all day is mostly doable but at times I do

it for too long and that brings its own set of problems.

The information I found about bromine being used in products these days

came from here:

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedominancetheory.html

" Currently, bromide is found in pesticides (methyl

bromide), some bread products (potassium bromate), brominated

vegetable oil that may be added to citrus-flavored drinks, hot tub

cleansers, certain asthma inhalers and prescription drugs, plastic

products, some personal care products, some fabric dyes, and as a fire

retardant in mattresses, carpeting, etc. " That link contains

more information worthy of a read.

Thanks heaps for your help Phil. It's really

appreciated.......LD

[Guest guest]

At 02:41 AM 18/04/2008, Naomi wrote: " There are others on

lymestrategies list who are experiencing jaw/neck stuff with

mms...apparently lyme & co critters especially like places of low

circulation like jaws and spine and have an affinity for heavy metals and

affect nerves.... I'm very interested in your experiences/thoughts

on these things. "

Hi Naomi, I haven't a dx for lyme or BB but due to my symptoms and

the responses I get to abx and other treatments, I think they may be part

of the infection picture with me. I also had Bell's Palsy as a kid,

which is often referred to as due to lyme. I think the many

infections and the metals are perhaps the result of another deeper cause

so, while I am happy to utilise various meds/supps/modalities to address

all the symptoms, I'm also very keen on reading all the research related

to the search for such a deeper 'physical' cause.

I have 2 symptoms that are extremely problematic for me and which

exacerbate the worst on most treatments I've used. This impact is

not due to the pain itself but more how that pain cripples my ability to

cope with the treatments. As mentioned previously, one is the

pressure and pain in the cervical

spine/shoulders/neck/occipital/head/jaw/teeth/ear/face pressure (worse on

the left side) and the other is the buttock pain which means I cannot lay

or sit down without taking paracetamol.

At this point I'm still not sure which was the cause of the huge

exacerbation of the upper body region. It could have been the MMS,

the iodine or the combination. As you've no doubt seen with

my previous message, I'm experimenting again with the iodine and MMS,

albeit the doses are exceptionally low. I'm being patient to

see if the initial responses to the reintroduction of the combination

calm down, at which time I'll raise again.

I've had enough of doctors too except for my GP, who has become a friend

over the many years of our association (we have our understanding of life

in common), who supports all my experimentation and appreciates that I

send her any new and interesting information that might help her

patients.

Best wishes........LD

[Guest guest]

At 04:33 AM 20/04/2008, you wrote:

" Very interesing! I pulled

an excerpt out from one of the links to post. Hope you don't

mind. I think it is worth emphasizing. "

I didn't mind at all and glad that you did in fact.

Thank you........LD

[Guest guest]

At 07:24 AM 20/04/2008, you wrote:

" Thanks, LD for providing us with

your research. I agree with . It IS

interesting! "

Thank you Helen. I'm very happy to know it has been so

welcomed.

Best wishes......LD

[Guest guest]

On Apr 20, 2008, at 7:15 AM, Sara Mandal-Joy wrote:Where do folks get these good kinds of iodine?  Is it available without a prescription?  How do I go about finding some?  Thanks, SaraSara,I have use this iodine with great success:http://www.wellnessresources.com/products/iosol_iodine.php

[Guest guest]

At 12:15 AM 21/04/2008, you wrote: " Where do folks get

these good kinds of iodine? Is it available without a

prescription? How do I go about finding some? "

Sara, The iodine forums that I joined and the papers I read on the net,

recommend Iodoral (which is a tablet form of Lugol's) or the

liquid. I started with the Iodoral tabs. I haven't read about

kelp so I cannot comment on that but if you might like to join one of

those lists and ask some questions there.

iodine/

http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=815

Best wishes......LD