Re: cost of medical care

[Guest guest]

The link did not work for me.--

-- [ ] cost of medical care

Was it here we discussed the high cost of healthcare in the USA?

This link has an account of a gall blader surgery last week in Panama

including a price there and a price in the USA.

http://www.panama-guide.com/article.php/20081110082941375

IN NC

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[Guest guest]

On 11/10/2008 7:10 PM, susan wrote:

>> Was it here we discussed the high cost of healthcare in the USA?

>> This link has an account of a gall blader surgery last week in Panama

>> including a price there and a price in the USA.

>>

>> http://www.panama-guide.com/article.php/20081110082941375

> The link did not work for me.--

It worked fine for me...

Its a 'government hospital', and apparently subsidized heavily, as they

mention that it would be more expensive at one of the private hospitals

there.

[Guest guest]

Try taking out the space betweenthe slash and the a .

Wilkins

>> Was it here we discussed the high cost of healthcare in the USA?>> This link has an account of a gall blader surgery last week in Panama>> including a price there and a price in the USA.>> >> http://www.panama- guide.com/ article.php/ 2008111008294137 5> The link did not work for me.--It worked fine for me...Its a 'government hospital', and apparently subsidized heavily, as theymention that it would be more expensive at one of the private hospitalsthere.

[Guest guest]

On 11/11/2008 8:17 AM, Wilkins wrote:

> Try taking out the space betweenthe slash and the a .

Heh - Thunderbird must be smart enough to do that for me, although

things like that are the first thing to look for when broken links are

encountered...

[Guest guest]

An Expat Experience in the Santo Tomas Hospital

Monday, November 10 2008 @ 08:29 AM EST

Contributed by: Don Winner

Views: 305

By DON WINNER for Panama-Guide.com - Recently Clyde checked

into the Santo Tomas hospital in Panama City in need of a gall bladder

operation. He is posted his experiences to the Americans in Panama

email group to pass on what he learned. Clyde writes: " My

experience with gall bladder surgery at Santo Tomas Hospital - On

Monday morning the 28th of October my gut was so distended and I was

having such excruciating pain that my novia took me to Santo Tomas

Hospital. The first day there is somewhat of a fog as I was hurting so

bad. It turned out that I was passing some gall stones and my pancreas

was inflamed and I had to have my gall bladder removed, but they had to

wait to get my pancreas stabilized first. " (more)

" After 5 days of constant IV feedings with antibiotics, pain killers

and all those other goodies they fill you up with, they did the surgery

on Saturday at 2:30. The surgery, a laparoscopy which is done without

cutting the abdominal wall, but with 4 small incisions for the light,

camera and tools, was done under general anesthesia and lasted a little

over an hour. I was released from the hospital at noon on Monday,

feeling quite well. The cost for this whole procedure was an outrageous

$746. Just joking folks. "

" What did I get for that $746? Let me break it down. "

" First, the exam room and admission cost me $2.00 And then I had about

every blood test imaginable, about two dozen in all during the week I

was there. Add in a lot of medication and the total miscellaneous

charges came to $54.00. These by the way were all itemized and were

paid for up front. "

" There was $300 for general surgery which included the hospital room

for 8 days, 2 cat scans, 3 x-rays, an ultrasound, two doctors exams per

day and at least 20 IVs with all the goodies. None of the $300 was

itemized so I can't break it down for you. "

" The cost of surgery itself, which covered the surgeon, his assistant

and the anesthetist came to $392. "

" When it came time to pay the bill and get released I was allowed to

pay $100 cash and agreed to pay $100 per month. No hassle, no

promissory note, no first born child, just my word. No Toto, we're not

in Kansas any more. I have no idea what that would have cost in the

states, but I'm sure it would have been at least ten times as much. If

someone here is privy to those costs I would appreciate hearing from

you. I might add that I had used Santo Tomas about a year or so ago

with a bout of bronchial pneumonia. I was there for a day of inhalation

therapy, total cost $27 which included a chest x-ray. "

" Now as to the hospital itself. It's COOOOLD there, like all of Panama

they really crank up the air conditioning. If you go, be sure to take a

couple of blankets and a pillow, as they only provide thin sheets, if

you`re visiting wear a coat. Also take some pajamas or you'll have to

wear the gown with your butt showing. Things don't look as bright and

shiny as we're used to in the U.S., but I have no reason to believe

that they're any less sanitary. My one complaint is that they left my

arms and hands a mass of bruises because of difficulties in finding

veins for IVs, but then at 72 I guess that's to be expected. The

doctors and nursing staff were outstanding, I felt that they really

cared. Of course it may have been that I was a gringo and somewhat of a

rarity. I didn't see any other gringos while I was there. The doctor

who did the actual surgery examined me every day so he knew my exact

condition prior to the surgery. I only met two doctors and one nurse

who were actually fluent in English, but there were some who could

speak passable English. I would highly suggest that anyone going there

take an interpreter with you if you don't speak passable Spanish. "

" For those of you who can't qualify for health insurance in Panama

because of pre-existing conditions or age and can't afford to use

hospitals like Patialla or Pacifica, Santo Tomas is certainly your best

alternative. "

" Clyde "

Responses and Comments:

ddnabjones Writes: " That's a great bargain. A couple of year ago in

Bocas del Toro, my infant granddaughter bumped her head and we took her

for a midnight checkup at the local public health clinic. Total cost,

$2.00. "

Faith Writes: " In 1993 my husband had the same procedure without the

complications you had and the bill was roughly $15,000. And than we

received an additional bill for the doctors. Thank god we had good

insurance and didn't have to pay anything... "

Mikeal Writes: " In 2004, I had the same operation too: $35,000 in

Miami. "

Jay Writes: " Glad it went well, Clyde. "

Edith Writes: " WOW! HOW BOUT COSMETIC (VANITY) PROCEDURES? DO THEY DO

EM? "

Jim Writes: " Interesting, sounds like this would be a good option if

another hospital refuses to direct bill your insurance carrier. How

does Santo Tomas compare to Nacional which I have heard good things

about (but never been to either)? I think it would be much more than

10x in the US. I had a kidney stone 4-5 years ago. I went to emergency

where they did some tests, made the diagnosis and sent me home for the

stone to pass by itself; I did not stay overnight. The cost was $3300.

My wife broke her ankle a few years ago and we went to the same

hospital where they put her ankle in a cast. She did not stay overnight

either but the cost was over $3000. "

Jan Writes: " Santo Tomas is one of the government hospitals, and

National (in spite of its name) is a private hospital. I suspect that

would put it in the category of not only being much more expensive but

of also requiring cash up front for everything. "

Rick Writes: " FYI, I had insurance at a hospital in . Gall bladder

surgery involved a 24 hr. stay in hospital including surgery time.

Total cost was about $4,000 total; since I had insurance co-pay was

about $1,700. Experience was good buy somewhat more expensive than

Santo . " (Clyde replied: " Rick, thank you, that's the type of

information I was hoping for. The usual procedure for gall bladder

surgery is 24 hours in the hospital or less, but that is without any

complications, in my case the inflamed pancreas drug that out to 8

days. I wonder what your procedure would have cost in the U.S. for the

one day stay. Does anyone know? " )

Jan Writes: " Hi -- I can't compare exact to exact, but I was in Punta

Pacifica for 8 days with a surgery included. I can't praise the care

enough, but it was significantly more than yours, Clyde. The hospital

charges (scans, labs, pulmonary tests, intensive care room for 3 days,

regular room for 5 days, respiratory therapy treatments, etc and etc)

were in the neighborhood of $5,000 after the jubilado discount. I

forget the exact amount now, but that's pretty close. The doctors

(surgeon, assistant, anesthesiologist, pulmonologist, internal

medicine --- 2 visits a day from them all) was $14,000 after the

discount. I was later in Santo Tomas for 3 days for cardiac tests that

I couldn't name if my life depended on it, and the total bill was $90

for everything. Everything you said about Santo Tomas was true ---

clean, good care, and COLD! We now have the hospital medical plan with

Santa Fe and I have had an outpatient surgical procedure which,

including labs, was $91. It was that much because we had just gotten

the medical plan and surgical things are not covered right off the bat

(as they are not in US insurance either) but it would have been about

$20 if we'd waited long enough for it to be covered. The differences I

saw among the 3 was that of course Punta Pacifica was brand new

beautiful with all the bells and whistles. Neither Santo Tomas nor

Santa Fe can begin to match in that area. However, I don't believe

there was a difference in the cleanliness, and the equipment in the

older hospitals was not as whing-ding but was adequate for the job. I

believe there was a similar level of caring on the part of the nurses,

but the nurses at Punta Pacifica (and even Santa Fe) weren't as

incredibly overworked as the ones in Santo Tomas, so had more time to

demonstrate their caring. The nurses at Santo Tomas were so busy and so

under-staffed that at times I felt like getting up and giving them my

bed! "

" Patti Writes: " In spite of the fact that I pay Social Security Tax

here in Panama, through my job, I NEVER had any intentions of going

there in an emergency. My first choice was always Santo Tomas Hosp.

This confirms it. Glad that you've recovered, Clyde. Best wishes to

all. "

Ray Writes: " hey, i doubt you could get that service in the states for

ten times as much as clyde says. this can only mean we been getting

screwed here in the estados unidos. another good reason to think about

living in the panama. lets see, if and when i need my other knee done

here in the states about 60 thousand. i think in panama less than 10

thousand. now here in the states that would be in a under staffed

hospital because the admin dept has to make the big money. you get cut

on and they send you home in 2-3 days. now in panama you fly down,

check in to a resort like place, private room, good food and you stay

for a month where they take care of your therapy in the resort like

place. heck the whole job is almost less than the deductable here. good

report from clyde. "

" Don D. Writes: " I am responding to Clyde ' reference the costs

of a gall bladder surgery here in the United States. I had the same

type surgery as Clyde; only I ended up with five incisions as opposed

to his four which is the norm. My procedure was done at the Mayo Clinic

in ville, Florida in June of this year and the costs were almost

$17,000. My monthly statement reflects a charge of $16,657.61 for the

period of June 11th thru June 14th which is the period for which I was

admitted. It also shows a charge of $125.00 for June 10th which is the

date I first sought relief for the gall bladder problem. So, whereas

Clyde thought maybe the costs would be 10 times greater stateside, they

are actually about 23 times greater. Luckily I have a good insurance

plan and my costs were minimal. By the way Clyde. My first born was a

preemie and spent the first seven weeks of his life in Hospital del

Niño in 1967 and the costs for that was only about $300. "

And There You Have It: I've been in the Santo Tomas hospital on several

occasions and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the

ICU - they are fully staffed and equipped, in some cases better than

rural hospitals in the United States. Santo Tomas receives most of the

trauma cases in Panama City, things like gunshot wounds, traffic

accidents and the like, and without a doubt they are the best prepared

to receive and treat severe trauma patients. They are not bright or

shiny or new, and there might be eight or ten beds in a room, but the

care is adequate and you can't beat the price. For those with little

money, no insurance, preexisting conditions, or no other options, the

Santo Tomas hospital is not a bad way to go.

Copyright 2008 by Don Winner for Panama-Guide.com. Go ahead and use

whatever you like as long as you credit the source. Salud.