Re: corelation Depression/RA

[Guest guest]

,

Prior to being diagnosed with RA, I was diagnosed with clinical

depression/anxiety disorder. I was also in severe pain during that

time and didn't have insurance yet to see what the problem was.

Rose

> > Hello All,

> > I am very glad that so many of us are talking about

> depression

> > with RA. There have been many downs and many ups in my life.

> Right

> > now, the downs are winning. Having RA is a very scary time

because

> it

> > is like reliving my bout with manic-depressive illness 20 years

> ago.

> > I recovered beautifully from that experience by hard work and

> > tenacity and was able to passionately work as a social worker

with

> > unaccompanied refugee minors, placing them in foster care. Later

> I

> > worked for 12 years as executive director of a social service

> agency

> > serving rural poor. I struggled with fibromyalgia for 30 years

> but

> > it was manageable and I didn't lose work because of it. I took

> comp

> > time after working too hard. I left that position to move 2

years

> > ago to nurture a new relationship which is still going strong.

> > However, since then my health has taken more than one turn for

the

> > worst. In August 2001 I was dx with heart disease and RA was

also

> > suspected. I developed pusatile tinnitus from the BP meds. This

> > past May, I had my first major RA flare after suffering with

> > neuropathy since January. Wow, we all know what that was like,

> yes?

> > I was depressed but handled that with a technique that I learned

> from

> > Dr. beth Kubler-Ross, the author of " On Death and Dying. " I

> > beat on my bed with a piece of hose, crying, screaming and

> shouting

> > out my anger and hurt to God. That really helped for more than a

> > month.

> > Only 3 weeks after going back to a new great-paying,

> > prestigious job as a program analyst after 2 1/2 months out on

> short-

> > term disability, I had two angina attacks and needed an

> angioplasty.

> > Unfortunately, I had internal bleeding complications that sent me

> to

> > intensive care, needing 3 units of blood. My liver function

tests

> > were not normal so I had to stop the MX for a while. Less than

24

> > hrs. of being home, my love had a freak accident, cutting off a

> tip

> > of a finger in a mailbox. Within 2 wks I had another major flare

> and

> > required double the prednisone and slow reintroduction of MX.

> Soon I

> > developed vertigo from an ear infection. After another 2 1/2

> months

> > on disability, I lost my job because I was not well enough to

work

> > full-time. I was handling my illness quite well with the belief

> that

> > I would be able to work with accommodations. My employer and I

> were

> > working on that. The job loss, the pain, and the fear of

> financial

> > ruin threw me into a deeper depression. I am taking more

> > antidepressants than I needed for many, many years. I have

> > neuropathy every day. The pulsatile tinnitus continues

> > with the vertigo recently returning and hanging on for over 7

> weeks.

> > I have applied for SSDI.

> > On top of all this, my beloved dog had a leg amputated due

> to

> > cancer in November and my beloved cat now is in the early stages

> of

> > kidney failure. I wonder how much more I can take. When I think

> the

> > worst is over, more comes along. I was just dx with scabies that

> I

> > contracted first on the sole of my foot. The only places that I

> have

> > gone barefoot is at the local pool when exercising for RA and

> heart

> > disease and at many doctor's offices and medical testing

> facilities.

> > Am I more susceptible to getting something as unusual as scabies

> > because of my immuno-suppressive drugs? And then two days ago, I

> > found a lump in my dog's groin, near her stump. I will take her

> to

> > the vet on Tues., praying that it is not more cancer. The vet

> said

> > that the amputation was curative. What is this?

> > As you can imagine, anxiety is my constant companion. I am

> in

> > therapy, venting and crying a lot, beginning to focus on

> relaxation

> > techniques. I have never been suicidal because I know that I

have

> > made it through horrific times in the past and I will do it

> again. I

> > have wonderful family and friends who love and support me and I

> will

> > never give up. I want to leave them with a legacy that tells

them

> > that life is worth living. I have shared with them my pending

> > poverty after I use up my savings. I trust that they will not

let

> me

> > become destitute. For over 20 years, I served the poverty-

> stricken

> > population. I found most to be endearing and many to be hard

> workers

> > caught in bad economic times. I now join them in even worse

> economic

> > times. It is terrifying to be in this place yet I am depending

on

> my

> > resourcefulness to get me through. I learned years ago to ask

for

> > what I need. Certainly, my ego has taken a lot of blows but I

> > recognize that there are alternatives choices to make.

> > There are substitutes for the activities that brought me joy in

> years

> > past. I am relying on my creativity to bring joy back into my

> life.

> > I am discovering new people, new things, new life in surprising

> > places. The world is a huge diamond with more facets than we can

> > count. Right now I see mostly the dull facets, the dark ones

that

> > have little or no light shining on them. I continue to see and to

> > seek the ones that glow with brilliance. With the grace of the

> > Divine One, they do exist!

> > I had the privilege of working with refugees who suffered

> > atrocities that outweigh my suffering. I usually don't compare

> the

> > worst of our sufferings instead I do look to them and other

> survivors

> > of tragedies as guides. One of my favorite quotes from Dr.

> > Tournier in a book, " Creative Suffering, " is: " Courage is not

> > taught, it is caught. " This is why this message board is so

> helpful

> > to us all. Thanks for sharing your innermost thoughts. I wish

us

> > all a glorious future! Peace, Maxine

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

To respond to your excellent question, I gave you some of the

story in my previous post. To go even deeper, I did experience a

major trauma after the birth of my son, 34 years ago. I had a

terrifying reaction to scopolamine that was used to relax the muscles

during childbirth. I had a humungous panic attack and thoughts of

suicide while in the hospital. I had never experienced such a

horrible reaction in my life. I felt as if I had been hit by a truck-

---- blind-sighted. I never saw it coming! And the doctors and

nurses did not tell me what caused it. The medication is no longer

used for delivery because many women had serious side effects, too.

It was devastating to have it happen at a time when I expected to be

joyous over my son's birth. I had looked forward to it with such

wonder. For the following 15 years, I had no idea what caused that

reaction. In addition, to make matters much worse, my husband had

abandoned me for schooling, work and alcohol. For a 15 year period I

became a reclusive misfit, getting sicker and sicker. I went for

group and individual therapy and physical therapy for the chronic

pain that came with it. I had had two freak accidents to my head in

my young adulthood which caused serious TMJ pain. Eventually, I

hospitalized myself on the psych floor for what I thought would be

institutionalization for the rest of my life. However, I only needed

3 weeks because of the good meds that are out there. I learned the

truth. Because of my predisposition to manic-depressive illness

through family genetics, I was bound to have that horrible experience

with scopolamine. After 3 years of recovery, I divorced my husband

and had been quite healthy for 19 years, except for fibromyalgia

which was manageable. Annoying but manageable with massages and

water exercises but no need for extra medication. My former

psychiatrist recognizes fibro and had me continue with elavil which

helps for both fibro and depression.

I believe that my current strength comes from having endured

such tough times and pulled through, having created a real good life

for myself. I plan to do it again. Certainly, the diagnoses and

challenges are different, but my will to live is still very strong.

It feels harder to do now because I am now almost 60 yrs. old, but

having known my elderly mother's recovery, I am not putting age as a

total barrier, just a greater challenge to overcome.

So, , yes, I have a past filled with traumatic events that

I believe set me up for RA and even heart disease. Yet, I know all

the events that balance the scale, that make my life worth living. I

loved raising my son, I loved teaching, working in refugee

resettlement, and spearheading the development of a non-profit agency

serving rural poor. I was able to use my wisdom gained as a wounded

healer. I continue to love my family, my friends, and my pets. My

heart goes out to all of us RAers. We do have quite a journey. I am

glad we are traveling together. Blessings, Maxine

> > Hello All,

> > I am very glad that so many of us are talking about

> depression

> > with RA. There have been many downs and many ups in my life.

> Right

> > now, the downs are winning. Having RA is a very scary time

because

> it

> > is like reliving my bout with manic-depressive illness 20 years

> ago.

> > I recovered beautifully from that experience by hard work and

> > tenacity and was able to passionately work as a social worker

with

> > unaccompanied refugee minors, placing them in foster care. Later

> I

> > worked for 12 years as executive director of a social service

> agency

> > serving rural poor. I struggled with fibromyalgia for 30 years

> but

> > it was manageable and I didn't lose work because of it. I took

> comp

> > time after working too hard. I left that position to move 2

years

> > ago to nurture a new relationship which is still going strong.

> > However, since then my health has taken more than one turn for

the

> > worst. In August 2001 I was dx with heart disease and RA was

also

> > suspected. I developed pusatile tinnitus from the BP meds. This

> > past May, I had my first major RA flare after suffering with

> > neuropathy since January. Wow, we all know what that was like,

> yes?

> > I was depressed but handled that with a technique that I learned

> from

> > Dr. beth Kubler-Ross, the author of " On Death and Dying. " I

> > beat on my bed with a piece of hose, crying, screaming and

> shouting

> > out my anger and hurt to God. That really helped for more than a

> > month.

> > Only 3 weeks after going back to a new great-paying,

> > prestigious job as a program analyst after 2 1/2 months out on

> short-

> > term disability, I had two angina attacks and needed an

> angioplasty.

> > Unfortunately, I had internal bleeding complications that sent me

> to

> > intensive care, needing 3 units of blood. My liver function

tests

> > were not normal so I had to stop the MX for a while. Less than

24

> > hrs. of being home, my love had a freak accident, cutting off a

> tip

> > of a finger in a mailbox. Within 2 wks I had another major flare

> and

> > required double the prednisone and slow reintroduction of MX.

> Soon I

> > developed vertigo from an ear infection. After another 2 1/2

> months

> > on disability, I lost my job because I was not well enough to

work

> > full-time. I was handling my illness quite well with the belief

> that

> > I would be able to work with accommodations. My employer and I

> were

> > working on that. The job loss, the pain, and the fear of

> financial

> > ruin threw me into a deeper depression. I am taking more

> > antidepressants than I needed for many, many years. I have

> > neuropathy every day. The pulsatile tinnitus continues

> > with the vertigo recently returning and hanging on for over 7

> weeks.

> > I have applied for SSDI.

> > On top of all this, my beloved dog had a leg amputated due

> to

> > cancer in November and my beloved cat now is in the early stages

> of

> > kidney failure. I wonder how much more I can take. When I think

> the

> > worst is over, more comes along. I was just dx with scabies that

> I

> > contracted first on the sole of my foot. The only places that I

> have

> > gone barefoot is at the local pool when exercising for RA and

> heart

> > disease and at many doctor's offices and medical testing

> facilities.

> > Am I more susceptible to getting something as unusual as scabies

> > because of my immuno-suppressive drugs? And then two days ago, I

> > found a lump in my dog's groin, near her stump. I will take her

> to

> > the vet on Tues., praying that it is not more cancer. The vet

> said

> > that the amputation was curative. What is this?

> > As you can imagine, anxiety is my constant companion. I am

> in

> > therapy, venting and crying a lot, beginning to focus on

> relaxation

> > techniques. I have never been suicidal because I know that I

have

> > made it through horrific times in the past and I will do it

> again. I

> > have wonderful family and friends who love and support me and I

> will

> > never give up. I want to leave them with a legacy that tells

them

> > that life is worth living. I have shared with them my pending

> > poverty after I use up my savings. I trust that they will not

let

> me

> > become destitute. For over 20 years, I served the poverty-

> stricken

> > population. I found most to be endearing and many to be hard

> workers

> > caught in bad economic times. I now join them in even worse

> economic

> > times. It is terrifying to be in this place yet I am depending

on

> my

> > resourcefulness to get me through. I learned years ago to ask

for

> > what I need. Certainly, my ego has taken a lot of blows but I

> > recognize that there are alternatives choices to make.

> > There are substitutes for the activities that brought me joy in

> years

> > past. I am relying on my creativity to bring joy back into my

> life.

> > I am discovering new people, new things, new life in surprising

> > places. The world is a huge diamond with more facets than we can

> > count. Right now I see mostly the dull facets, the dark ones

that

> > have little or no light shining on them. I continue to see and to

> > seek the ones that glow with brilliance. With the grace of the

> > Divine One, they do exist!

> > I had the privilege of working with refugees who suffered

> > atrocities that outweigh my suffering. I usually don't compare

> the

> > worst of our sufferings instead I do look to them and other

> survivors

> > of tragedies as guides. One of my favorite quotes from Dr.

> > Tournier in a book, " Creative Suffering, " is: " Courage is not

> > taught, it is caught. " This is why this message board is so

> helpful

> > to us all. Thanks for sharing your innermost thoughts. I wish

us

> > all a glorious future! Peace, Maxine

[Guest guest]

Dear Maxine, your words are encouraging and supportive to all of us. Thank you for being so open to share so much pain that you have been through. My prayers will continue to be with you - every one of you in this group that I am quickly growing to feel so fondly.

With warm hugs,

Sandy

From: "Maxine "

Reply-Rheumatoid Arthritis Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: corelation Depression/RA Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:25:29 -0000

Dear , To respond to your excellent question, I gave you some of the story in my previous post. To go even deeper, I did experience a major trauma after the birth of my son, 34 years ago. I had a terrifying reaction to scopolamine that was used to relax the muscles during childbirth. I had a humungous panic attack and thoughts of suicide while in the hospital. I had never experienced such a horrible reaction in my life. I felt as if I had been hit by a truck- ---- blind-sighted. I never saw it coming! And the doctors and nurses did not tell me what caused it. The medication is no longer used for delivery because many women had serious side effects, too. It was devastating to have it happen at a time when I expected to be joyous over my son's birth. I had looked forward to it with such wonder. For the following 15 years, I had no idea what caused that reaction. In addition, to make matters much worse, my husband had abandoned me for schooling, work and alcohol. For a 15 year period I became a reclusive misfit, getting sicker and sicker. I went for group and individual therapy and physical therapy for the chronic pain that came with it. I had had two freak accidents to my head in my young adulthood which caused serious TMJ pain. Eventually, I hospitalized myself on the psych floor for what I thought would be institutionalization for the rest of my life. However, I only needed 3 weeks because of the good meds that are out there. I learned the truth. Because of my predisposition to manic-depressive illness through family genetics, I was bound to have that horrible experience with scopolamine. After 3 years of recovery, I divorced my husband and had been quite healthy for 19 years, except for fibromyalgia which was manageable. Annoying but manageable with massages and water exercises but no need for extra medication. My former psychiatrist recognizes fibro and had me continue with elavil which helps for both fibro and depression. I believe that my current strength comes from having endured such tough times and pulled through, having created a real good life for myself. I plan to do it again. Certainly, the diagnoses and challenges are different, but my will to live is still very strong. It feels harder to do now because I am now almost 60 yrs. old, but having known my elderly mother's recovery, I am not putting age as a total barrier, just a greater challenge to overcome. So, , yes, I have a past filled with traumatic events that I believe set me up for RA and even heart disease. Yet, I know all the events that balance the scale, that make my life worth living. I loved raising my son, I loved teaching, working in refugee resettlement, and spearheading the development of a non-profit agency serving rural poor. I was able to use my wisdom gained as a wounded healer. I continue to love my family, my friends, and my pets. My heart goes out to all of us RAers. We do have quite a journey. I am glad we are traveling together. Blessings, Maxine

> > Hello All, > > I am very glad that so many of us are talking about > depression > > with RA. There have been many downs and many ups in my life. > Right > > now, the downs are winning. Having RA is a very scary time because > it > > is like reliving my bout with manic-depressive illness 20 years > ago. > > I recovered beautifully from that experience by hard work and > > tenacity and was able to passionately work as a social worker with > > unaccompanied refugee minors, placing them in foster care. Later > I > > worked for 12 years as executive director of a social service > agency > > serving rural poor. I struggled with fibromyalgia for 30 years > but > > it was manageable and I didn't lose work because of it. I took > comp > > time after working too hard. I left that position to move 2 years > > ago to nurture a new relationship which is still going strong. > > However, since then my health has taken more than one turn for the > > worst. In August 2001 I was dx with heart disease and RA was also > > suspected. I developed pusatile tinnitus from the BP meds. This > > past May, I had my first major RA flare after suffering with > > neuropathy since January. Wow, we all know what that was like, > yes? > > I was depressed but handled that with a technique that I learned > from > > Dr. beth Kubler-Ross, the author of "On Death and Dying." I > > beat on my bed with a piece of hose, crying, screaming and > shouting > > out my anger and hurt to God. That really helped for more than a > > month. > > Only 3 weeks after going back to a new great-paying, > > prestigious job as a program analyst after 2 1/2 months out on > short- > > term disability, I had two angina attacks and needed an > angioplasty. > > Unfortunately, I had internal bleeding complications that sent me > to > > intensive care, needing 3 units of blood. My liver function tests > > were not normal so I had to stop the MX for a while. Less than 24 > > hrs. of being home, my love had a freak accident, cutting off a > tip > > of a finger in a mailbox. Within 2 wks I had another major flare > and > > required double the prednisone and slow reintroduction of MX. > Soon I > > developed vertigo from an ear infection. After another 2 1/2 > months > > on disability, I lost my job because I was not well enough to work > > full-time. I was handling my illness quite well with the belief > that > > I would be able to work with accommodations. My employer and I > were > > working on that. The job loss, the pain, and the fear of > financial > > ruin threw me into a deeper depression. I am taking more > > antidepressants than I needed for many, many years. I have > > neuropathy every day. The pulsatile tinnitus continues > > with the vertigo recently returning and hanging on for over 7 > weeks. > > I have applied for SSDI. > > On top of all this, my beloved dog had a leg amputated due > to > > cancer in November and my beloved cat now is in the early stages > of > > kidney failure. I wonder how much more I can take. When I think > the > > worst is over, more comes along. I was just dx with scabies that > I > > contracted first on the sole of my foot. The only places that I > have > > gone barefoot is at the local pool when exercising for RA and > heart > > disease and at many doctor's offices and medical testing > facilities. > > Am I more susceptible to getting something as unusual as scabies > > because of my immuno-suppressive drugs? And then two days ago, I > > found a lump in my dog's groin, near her stump. I will take her > to > > the vet on Tues., praying that it is not more cancer. The vet > said > > that the amputation was curative. What is this? > > As you can imagine, anxiety is my constant companion. I am > in > > therapy, venting and crying a lot, beginning to focus on > relaxation > > techniques. I have never been suicidal because I know that I have > > made it through horrific times in the past and I will do it > again. I > > have wonderful family and friends who love and support me and I > will > > never give up. I want to leave them with a legacy that tells them > > that life is worth living. I have shared with them my pending > > poverty after I use up my savings. I trust that they will not let > me > > become destitute. For over 20 years, I served the poverty- > stricken > > population. I found most to be endearing and many to be hard > workers > > caught in bad economic times. I now join them in even worse > economic > > times. It is terrifying to be in this place yet I am depending on > my > > resourcefulness to get me through. I learned years ago to ask for > > what I need. Certainly, my ego has taken a lot of blows but I > > recognize that there are alternatives choices to make. > > There are substitutes for the activities that brought me joy in > years > > past. I am relying on my creativity to bring joy back into my > life. > > I am discovering new people, new things, new life in surprising > > places. The world is a huge diamond with more facets than we can > > count. Right now I see mostly the dull facets, the dark ones that > > have little or no light shining on them. I continue to see and to > > seek the ones that glow with brilliance. With the grace of the > > Divine One, they do exist! > > I had the privilege of working with refugees who suffered > > atrocities that outweigh my suffering. I usually don't compare > the > > worst of our sufferings instead I do look to them and other > survivors > > of tragedies as guides. One of my favorite quotes from Dr. > > Tournier in a book, "Creative Suffering," is: "Courage is not > > taught, it is caught." This is why this message board is so > helpful > > to us all. Thanks for sharing your innermost thoughts. I wish us > > all a glorious future! Peace, Maxine

[Guest guest]

Wow Maxine,

Thank you for sharing such info with all of us. I am interested in

this because I was toying with going back to school. I wanted to go

for pharmacology but because my husband lost his job we decided

against it. But what I did learn in my quest for knowledge is that

some people with RA have been treated sucessfully with

antidepressants. The theory is RA is actually just symptoms of

depression. If any part of this is true, I wonder if some

cure/treatment could be found in places not yet explored. My doctor

chuckles at this idea but what does he know! :-)

Maybe RA is triggered by our bodies as a defense. Maybe our bodies

are confused. Maybe knowing what triggers it could lend itself to

finding a cure or ways to prevent this disease...

Just be blabbering again,

[Guest guest]

Double Wow ,

Can you lead me to the information about the theory that RA is

one of the symptoms of depression? I had read on the web a few years

ago that fibromyalgia is a part of the spectrum of manic-depressive

illness, so it doesn't surprise me that RA might be, too. All of it

really hits home because I always had chronic pain once I had bouts

of mania or depression. For those 15 years following the scopolamine

trauma after the birth of my son, believe me, I sought out a

diagnosis. My body had changed so drastically that I was obsessed

with finding the cause and cure. I spent years seeking holistic

healing because I was terrified of medications after the scop

trauma. I never used illegal drugs or drank alcohol. I used to

drink in college with no problems. But I became chemophobic. I

tried meditation that caused me to experience major mood swings. I

felt abandoned by God when something that was supposed to relax me

made me crazy. That was the worst of times. During that time,

however, I was really bonding with the refugee youth and foster

families and my colleagues at work. I learned so much from them,

picking up cues from them and our training sessions. I could relate

to a lot and became more intent on seeking help. Physical therapy,

acupuncture, group therapy and a good friendship with a supervisor at

work who struggled with depression herself gave me the final push. I

became seriously manic and depressive and that is when I put myself

in the hospital. I had always believed that I would find out what

happened, so when this psych hospitalization after my 15 year search

led me to the truth, it was a miracle, a great reinforcement of my

faith, tenacity, endurance, and strength that I didn't know I had

until then!! I learned BIG TIME that God's grace is real!!

But when this RA and heart disease recently hit, I first thought

these were separate, unrelated illnesses. I was furious at God for

loading me up with such catastrophes. With time to think, I have

wondered about their connections. I have read research that shows

the heart disease/depression connection.

My reason for going into so much detail here is to respond to

your comments and ask if you see anything in my story that answers

your questions. I believe it all to be mind, body, spirit related.

That makes the research more complicated, yes? What do you think?

Just me blabbering along with you. Thanks a bunch for adding a

new perspective to my body of knowledge. Again, I would like to read

more about this theory about the RA/depression link. Please write

when you have a chance. Good luck with your dream to work in

pharmacology. And good luck to your husband, hoping that he finds

meaningful work soon.

Blessings,

Maxine

> Wow Maxine,

> Thank you for sharing such info with all of us. I am interested in

> this because I was toying with going back to school. I wanted to go

> for pharmacology but because my husband lost his job we decided

> against it. But what I did learn in my quest for knowledge is that

> some people with RA have been treated sucessfully with

> antidepressants. The theory is RA is actually just symptoms of

> depression. If any part of this is true, I wonder if some

> cure/treatment could be found in places not yet explored. My doctor

> chuckles at this idea but what does he know! :-)

>

>

>

> Just be blabbering again,

>

[Guest guest]

> Double Wow ,

> Can you lead me to the information about the theory that RA

is

> one of the symptoms of depression?

I will look Maxine but really I don't remeber where I read it. I

remember reading something like, " Does RA cause depression or does

depression cause RA? " Interesting, I thought. It does seem many

people have both. Is there as causal relationship? Maybe we'll never

know.

Thank you for sharing your story and it does add evidence to the

fact that maybe there is something there to investigate further.

-

[Guest guest]

Thank you, , for responding. I have written to the WebMD

arthritis message board to ask the question of causation. Let's see

what turns up there. I am really curious. Have a great evening and

tomorrow and......Best regards, Maxine

>

> > Double Wow ,

> > Can you lead me to the information about the theory that RA

> is

> > one of the symptoms of depression?

>

> I will look Maxine but really I don't remeber where I read it. I

> remember reading something like, " Does RA cause depression or does

> depression cause RA? " Interesting, I thought. It does seem many

> people have both. Is there as causal relationship? Maybe we'll

never

> know.

>

> Thank you for sharing your story and it does add evidence to the

> fact that maybe there is something there to investigate further.

>

> -